ok so i dont believe their is anything wrong with spawn camping, if you die and lose the fight why should the other team let you respawn and recover. I mean wouldnt that make fights sooo boring and long, you win one fight but wait they respawn, recover, then you kill them again, they respawn recover, and basically it becomes a fight of attrition, or you win the fight and boom you win the fight, dont let them recover and in the end they lost because they lost the fight initially. the way i see it, if we want to get rid of spawn camping, get rid of respawning. the only time i see spawn camping as a problem is when they are bucketing your ship and repairing it just to continue the fight so that they can continue to kill you for no reason, but in these cases you can just scuttle and its not like theirs any difference, you were gonna sink anyways, you already lost.
There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind
@d4m0r3d 100 percent agree people need to stop calling for bans when getting spawn killed, suck it up and scuttle the boat if you can't get them off your ship.
Although that part about someone saving the ship to keep killing someone, you can still bucket the boat if they scuttle and force them to spawn on the ship.
What premise are we talking about?
It is one thing to come back and duke it out while they are on the ship, camping your spawn location. Which is perfectly fine.
It is something else when the game allows you to not even make it back while you are already in battle, by allowing them to kill you while blackscreen loading or deal 50%+ damage without you having any control of your character. It feels like the game is against you instead of the pirate beating you fair and square.
If you say you lost the 1 fight you shouldn't be able to come back. I have two questions:
- Why have the game allow me to respawn to begin with in that case?
- Why would the game make it more difficult based on ship size. Say on a galleon compared to a sloop in that case by just the mere availability of more spawn locations? Have a single spot for each ship and allow me to wipe a brig or galleon crew and just sit in that one spot waiting, a galleon crew can cover all sloop spots after all.
@biter-wylie lol, i think you are joking but just in case i guess il say anyways, im talking about spawn camping on boats, as in you die and respawn on your boat and insta die.
@cotu42 i personally have no problem wiping most galleon crews in fact i feel most galleon crews are noobs who pick it because oh dis boat big, it must be best boat. and then with brigs, i also dont have difficulty because again i feel like alot of crews are open crews with noobs on their ships, or maybe its just because i have alot of experience with shooter games and im playing on pc. ANYWAYS i dislike the idea of forcing people to only spawn in one spot because thats just ehh idk, i dont have a problem with spawn camping, but yea if you are gonna make it increadibly easy to spawn camp by making only one spawn on each ship, then yea why not just take respawning out. btw i actually think no respawns would be cool, as in if you die you lost, thats it, you dont get to go back and have 15 re trys. if you really want to have another go at them, just sail your new ship back. ok so im doing this backwards but now for what you said at first
"It is something else when the game allows you to not even make it back while you are already in battle, by allowing them to kill you while blackscreen loading or deal 50%+ damage without you having any control of your character. It feels like the game is against you instead of the pirate beating you fair and square."
ok so in this situation, what do you expect players to do, wait for you to load, what happens if a player rage quits or goes afk, are they supposed to wait also. idk do you really expect a guy to fight a crew for an athena see someone respawn and be like oh i should probs wait for him to pull his gun out and get ready. nah man i dont think thats right. i mean if the devs can make it so xbox player models dont load in before their game is ready to have them running around i think that would be amazing cause yea i mean sure thats kinda sucky to spawn in and not be able to move, i mean why dont they just wait an extra second to let your console catch up before they spawn you. anyways with all this being said, i still think their is nothing wrong with spawn killing. sure it sucks that it takes you a while to load, but should i purposely miss shots cause i know your on xbox and you cant aim, ehhhhhh i dont think so. rn spawn killing seems like a dev problem not a player problem, and i do not believe players should be expected not to do it.
oh and after thinking a while at my own pvp encounters, im not even sure spawn killing even exists, i mean im looking back to my 1 v sloop battles cause thats the smallest and easiest to spawn kill boat, and everytime i fight on their i never have someone spawn infront of me, i know where the spawns are, but by the time im there they are already active, theres no way for me to predict where they are gonna spawn each time, maybe il catch the 1/5 spawns, not that im even trying to purposely spawn camp, more just running around the ship and oh he popped up infront of me kinda deal
@d4m0r3d I don't have a problem with it, when I was a new sailor it was great PVP experience and if I was tired of it I had the option to simply scuttle.
@zormis same thing here, although i honestly dont think i have ever been spawn camped. sure once or twice a fight i will spawn infront of someone, but its not like everytime i spawn i get insta killed, because obviously they cant even predict where im gonna spawn.
@galactic-geek sort of when I'm spawn killing if I have a sword i will swing in spawns that I memorized until I hear the sword hit a player then I just keep swinging and then shoot them.
I am not stating the player should wait when they spawn, nor that it is the players fault.
You state: change my mind. Yet you are not clear about your premise.
There are two aspects, the spawn killing and the situation in spawn killing, where a player is placed at a disadvantage to the point that it isn't fun, blackscreen. I don't mind people on my ship, yet I do think Rare needs to address the problem with a blackscreen combat initiation issue.
You might have not experienced it maybe, but I have literally loaded back in to see a green ghost dissolving before loading back to the ferry based on a blunder shot I heard, while in the black screen. With 4 people you can cover each spawn on a sloop and they see you, get free hits in or even kill you before you can even move.
The problem isn’t “Spawn Camping”
The problem is SPAWNING!
The time it takes is random every time! If Spawning worked properly Spawn Camping wouldn’t be an issue.
For example if all 4 Crew man in A Gallon walk through the Ferry of The Dead and spawned simultaneously removing a “Spawn Camper” from the ship wouldn’t be an issue.
But the games so slow and chuggy with the black screen green wheel and all that...you Spawn in one at a time and half the time you can’t do anything and the “Spawn Camper” can just pick all the respawns off one at a time.
If your a solo slooper and getting spawned camped by 3 people oh well, boohoo. You made the Choice to play an online multiplayer game by yourself.
There is no sympathy for self inflicted wounds!
@d4m0r3d
Agree. I dont get why players are so scared to hit the scuttle button. Why is it so hard to accept defeat.I am glad we can respawn tho. Back when i was new, if i lost and they camped my boat, i used it as a way to practice pvp. The guy on my boat was happy cause he gets to fight, and im happy cause it let me practice.
Without those moments, i dont think i would be as good as i am nowWhen you discuss the "right or wrong" of spawncamping, I agree that spawncamping is okay in certain contexts, but it is wrong if the goal is just to ruin the game for someone else.
When you discuss whether or not it is an issue for the game, I will say that it most certainly is not an issue because the scuttle mechanic is the universal, unfailing answer to freeing yourself of being spawncamped.
If you are being camped then you have made the mistake of allowing boarders, and additionally you do not possess the skill to fight back - the alternative to being camped is being sunk in this scenario so just go ahead and scuttle.
@fast-bike94 said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
@galactic-geek sort of when I'm spawn killing if I have a sword i will swing in spawns that I memorized until I hear the sword hit a player then I just keep swinging and then shoot them.
It's things like this why I truly recommend random spawns on the ship, and always away from non-crew pirates. For example, on a sloop, you never spawn on the top of the tarp. Why not?
@nwo-azcrack said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
@d4m0r3d
Agree. I dont get why players are so scared to hit the scuttle button. Why is it so hard to accept defeat.Pride and/or stubbornness. At least in my case :P but it's my choice to respawn until I'm sunk, and I do it in full awareness that I will most likely get killed again once respawned, especially if outnumbered. Can't blame my foe for that.
But, on the off-chance that the enemy makes a mistake and fail to kill me on the spot once, I can take advantage of it and try to change the situation. Worst comes worst, I try to do as much damage in a last ditch effort.
I've spawned in the water after my ship sunk, and while the enemy was busy fishing my loot, I sneaked on their galleon and rained kegs on them and sunk them.
@d4m0r3d yeah I agree it is fair if you die you obviously aren’t skilled enough continue or they have more people to kill them
I think the problem of the death and respawn mechanic of SoT is more complex than just a person getting killed then respawning.
So in many aspects of gameplay you want some type of flavour to make your game unique, a lot of games have death as a mechanic and a respawn mechanic, but only Sea of Thieves has the ferry of the damned. Problem is that this is one of those situations where the flavour gets in the way of the gameplay due to a technicality: two loading screens.
You wait to load into the ferry, then you wait for the doors to open, then you wait to load back into the world. The experience varies from person to person even if everyone goes through the door at the exact same time, due to hardware differences, some people have good PCs, some have bad PCs, some have the most modern version of a console, some don't, and frankly this shouldn't be an issue, especially with this especific mechanic of death and respawn.
There is a difference between spawning a second later than someone else, a bucket to save the ship difference, or the difference between spawning in your sinking ship or spawning in your respawned ship. I'm sure that at some point someone in the dev team tought about the ferry doors being a mechanic players would use to throw a curveball at their opponents, respawning as a crew all together and trying for a surprise comeback... but in reality this is nearly unpredictable even for the crew executing it, there is no garantee the load time won't randomly choke on a random rendering quirk, like for example being near an outpost which on low end hardware is a nightmare to render.
On the topic of spawncamping, actual spawncamping is definable as guarding the exact location of a players respawn point and killing them as soon as they pop into the world, while others here tend to believe the mere act of killing a player that has respawned on their ship counts as spawncamping. Here's my stance:
I don't think the game should facilitate spawncamping, as in allowing players to spot shadows of the player model before the player is actually in the world or in having the player character spawn before the player can act. I would even tolerate one or two seconds, at most, of invulnerability for a respawning player. However I am not against the act of guarding a ship from it's respawning crew, it's more like a conquest of the ship and having to keep the stranglehold on the ship for supplies, treasure hauling, forcing a scuttle or other pirate things demands proper organization and isn't entirely mindless. There are in-game built features that help players avoid being killed on their own ship repeatedly in a losing situation, comebacks are possible and the scuttle ship option has been there since day 1.
In summary
- Death and respawn mechanics need more polishing, it's not reasonable to have to wait for two unpredictable loadings screens.
- Spawncamping is not good, as in waiting for people's player models to pop in and kill them before they can reasonably react.
- Guarding a ship that has lost a battle, by killing it's respawning crew is part of the game and demands some degree of skill.
- There are mechanics that prevent players from being stuck in a loop of death and respawn.
Although there isn’t a problem with it, that doesn’t mean it’s entirely ok?
I’ve been spawn camped before. Solo sloop, here!! There’s very few spawn points on a sloop and I’ve rarely escaped being spawn camped. Alright good on you you predicted where i spawn in and shot me point blank with a blunderbuss.
But uh, it’s more than demeaning when someone sits on your boat and leaves theirs to sail into the shroud, just to kill you over and over again, just to inflate their own ego. It inflates A LOT when you choose to scuttle the ship. To them that’s their victory, your defeat. No such thing as surrender
To you? That’s saying “I give up, you proved your point, white flags going up, just leave me alone and let me play.” Or just people’s ways of getting away so they can stock up and get revenge.
It may not be a problem, may not be anything wrong with it, but it’s just annoying and demeaning and a nasty way for people to toot their own gunpowder-shooting trumpets.
@bloodybil said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
@nwo-azcrack said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
@d4m0r3d
Agree. I dont get why players are so scared to hit the scuttle button. Why is it so hard to accept defeat.Pride and/or stubbornness. At least in my case :P but it's my choice to respawn until I'm sunk, and I do it in full awareness that I will most likely get killed again once respawned, especially if outnumbered. Can't blame my foe for that.
But, on the off-chance that the enemy makes a mistake and fail to kill me on the spot once, I can take advantage of it and try to change the situation. Worst comes worst, I try to do as much damage in a last ditch effort.
I've spawned in the water after my ship sunk, and while the enemy was busy fishing my loot, I sneaked on their galleon and rained kegs on them and sunk them.
Lol same here. Im to stubborn to scuttle. Its only happened to me a couple of times where a pirate was whoopin me and i get to keep commin back. And even then, i usually get the win or they finally sink my boat cause they see im enjoying this.
Honestly, the scuttle function was a genious move. It allows everyone a way out, while also giving hard headed pirates like myself a chance to pvp with someone who is better than myself.
Sometimes you gotta know when ur beat. Unless players enjoy a challenge like myself, i dont see why they would let someone drain all their supplies instead of taking it to the grave.
@urihamrayne just so you know, the load speed onto the ferry is irrelevant as the door timer starts on death not on when you arrive on the ferry.
Therefore just one loadscreen.
@nwo-azcrack said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
Honestly, the scuttle function was a genious move. It allows everyone a way out, while also giving hard headed pirates like myself a chance to pvp with someone who is better than myself.
Couldn't agree more. Either you stay and the "suffering" is your choice, or you take the way out handed to you.
@agent-samuraii said in There is nothing wrong with spawn camping. Change my mind:
It may not be a problem, may not be anything wrong with it, but it’s just annoying and demeaning and a nasty way for people to toot their own gunpowder-shooting trumpets.
In any case, if one's ego is preventing them from giving up, as I mentioned above it's the person's decision to stay, nobody is twisting their arm. Nothing nasty or demeaning about it.
From the moment someone decides to stay behind and respawn over and over in an unwinnable scenario, they forfeit their ground to complain about being camped against their will.
Nothing wrong with it in Arena. In adventure it makes no sense once supplies have been exhausted and goal accomplished which is maybe 2 to 4 spawn kills. In Arena it makes sense if there are two boats with a chance to win. Outside of that why does anyone defend it? There is two words for those kinds of people. To do it only to cause people to get mad is an insane thing to do to someone. It's good where necessary but not beyond. Why is this even a convo really?
@cotu42 yea ok so we seem to have the same view point, i have no problem with spawn killing, i do not think it is wrong. but do i think the devs should do something to try to make pc players and xbox players = with the spawn times, yea. me personally i would prefer that players stay on the ship of the damned longer, like as in long enough for their ship to sink. cause honestly the only way i see spawn times being fixed, is to not have then in fights, just completely get rid of respawns in fights by having longer wait times in the ferry of the damned.
@nwo-azcrack true i have had moments like that, but those moments can still be created. my idea for getting rid of spawns is to just have people on the ferry of the damned long enough that if someone does want to sink you they can without having to kill you 15 different times. if you guys are having a sparring match or something like that, they could just let you respawn. or maybe they could make it so when an enemy player kills you, you have to stay on the ferry for maybe 1 min, if an ally kills you, you stay on for 30 seconds, and if an AI kills you, thats 15 seconds
@cotu42 There were multiple cases where for me the loading was longer than the time it took for the door to open, the first loading screen can waste time just as much as the last, independently of the door opening on death or not, which as you correctly stated starts it's countdown when you die.
@galactic-geek i would assume you dont spawn their because its kinda like spawning on the top of the sails, its not really a solid part of the boat if you know what i mean, its not flat ground, but also if we are being realistic i dont see a person going and standing on that part of the boat
@acebead40319154 in adventure you may kill someone and sink them to get them out of the area, to prevent them from messing with you. sometimes its just to show them whos boss so they dont make any moves. sometimes you might want the supplies, and sometimes you might just want practice aiming
@acebead40319154 i see people complain about spawn camping all the time, saying these people deserve to be banned for "griefing" or watever, when really ehhh i dont think thats fair. and honeslty im sure everyone has spawn camped, even though i dont even know if i would call it spawn camping myself because i swear majority of the fights i get into they are up and moving around before i can kill or find them anyways
My only beef is people respawning are at a slight disadvantage due to the loading in. Once you respawn it takes a second to get your bearings while the enemy is just waiting for you and knows the spots where you may spawn. Maybe add like a half a second immunity after you spawn in to get your bearings and able to defend yourself and be done with it. I think that's fair but that's just my opinion.
@phantomrook2205 No its not fair but if the game was always fair it wouldn't be that much fun. Its so much more fun to win when you have a massive disadvantage than when you have a massive advantage.
@d4m0r3d are we spawn camped or are we wasting the ones who just won't sink a ships time? I like to do it just to annoy them.
Don't need loot or reputation. What else is there?
Might as well police the seas a bit, I put on a good movie, and enjoy my warden and guards.
Just sink my ship and end it otherwise I get to play ship jailbreak and when I fail I respawn at the start to try again. It's a fun minigame I get to rarely play. But when I do the guards take it pretty seriously. The warden is always the vocal one.
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