Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed

  • @mcgovery said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    I think this summit guy that everyone keeps talking about should have his account banned.
    It's one thing to find an exploit and report it but to share it with the whole community and brag about it surely goes against Rares ethos?

    To be completely honest all he did was popularise the exploit. We've known about it for a long time, Rare has probably known about it for a long time. But because of the fact that this is such a beardy tactic you'd never see it. While we're often called toxic and rude we'd generally never lower ourselves to the dual gun meta level. But with Sunmit and his followers massively delving into this exploit the true problem comes to light.

    I don't like doing this but I fully blame Rare for this, people have been posting it since day 1 and Rare has ignored it. I myself have often told people not to worry too much since it wasn't regularly used. Now I hate myself for it because the people complaining were seeing a problem I didnt.

  • @ogdirtyape "J'ai également constaté que la plupart de ces nouveaux joueurs ne sont pas très doués pour naviguer et que, par conséquent, ils ne sont pas terriblement difficiles à manœuvrer et à couler." SURE!!!

  • @p0pc0rnh3mer01d написал в Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @th3xr34p3r said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @p0pc0rnh3mer01d What really needs to be done is to separate PvP Player damage numbers of weapons from the PvE side, this will help better tune the rates for each type of encounter instead of having a single state for them.

    This way you can have the 80% damage dealt to mobs and adjust as needed for the rate against players.

    but currently sniper does not do 80% damage to a skelly sometimes skelly will take 3 sniper shots to go down

    did you do your home work before saying things like that ?
    All players have 100 HP
    But not all skelly's have 100 HP
    "noob" skelly lowest grade need only 3 slices with sword or to die,
    But "legendary" (not golden - white ones from legendary mission) need 3 and half full combo of slice.

  • @nefrit-od exactly, besides, the Christmas quests were with noob skellies! ^^

  • @lapinnoux yeah but PC users also need to buy hardware that has a macro feature or download software that emulates the feature.

    It's not like PC players have macro's set up as standard, nor that it is a standard feature of the platform. It is a thing that is possible, just like it is on console.

    You want people to believe this is just a PC thing, but your information is factually incorrect.

    Neither of us disagree that this is an issue. Both of us want it fixed.

    You are here arguing semantics with me while pretending that some Xbox users aren't doing this too.

    I don't see how pretending an issue doesn't exist helps solve the problem, and I don't appreciate attempts to drive a wedge between xbox players and PC players by trying to unfairly and disengenuously paint one side as being the only guilty party.

  • @boxcar-squidy yes I absolutely agree with you, people who want to run macros are players who necessarily approve this "cheat".
    The PC player "lambda" will not look for this system and will play like any other player.

    I do not accuse ALL PC players because I know that many PC players are "honest with themselves", but let's say, no luck, it happens that this manipulation affects almost those PC players ...
    But I do not rule out the possibility that there are probably doubtful XBOX players ...

    But the good side of this conversation is that finally we agree that no, it's not just a computer problem, the problem is a certain "type" of players ... And that, RARE will not be able to do anything: /

    I am one of those players who will continue to play crossplateform if one day it becomes a choice, I need to confront all types of players to evolve! but I think that having the choice would be very good.

  • @boxcar-squidy
    Xbox One hadn't had any major problems with Macro use or Hax until the joyous release of crossplay with our pc brothers & sisters.
    Nearly any mouse & keyboard can have dpi increases & macros assigned to them, we all know on pc it's as simple as 1, 2, 3. On xbox you can't enable macros on a standard controller, so it is possible, but nowhere near as easy, accessible or cheap as it is on pc.
    The same goes for Hax, MS's UWP games have been compromised by PC users & have now infiltrated the Xbox Live service & have affected Xbox users games.
    Up until crossplay Xbox was a closed, safe & fair environment.

  • It's not a macro, I just mouse scroll after the sniper shot to bring up the pistol and shoot.

  • @sort-out-xplay You should be writing to Microsoft to allow Xbox players to use a keyboard and mouse. If you do not wish to use either of those then you are stuck with a controller.

  • @sort-out-xplay I don't disagree. It's far easier to do on PC.

    My point is that if you are the sort of person that wants to do it, it's not particularly difficult regardless of platform.

    Yes crossplay means that you are playing with people who have access to different hardware. That's one of the main advantages of a closed ecosystem like xbox live, you can assume that everyone has the same set up, but what about people using an X or an elite controller though? You don't mind playing with them, despite the fact that they have a hardware advantage? What about the KB + M that is coming out for xbox? Will you be complaining about them the way you have been about PC users?

    Crossplay is here to stay until Microsoft decide otherwise. New peripherals such as KB + M for xbox suggest that your xboxlive level playing field is a thing of the past. I strongly suspect you are fighting a battle that was lost years ago. So, you can keep banging that dusty old xplay drum, or you can look for ways to balance the game better in the context of the crossplay which MS have given every indication is non negotiable.

    If modded controllers and macro buttons weren't a thing on consoles then MS wouldn't have mentioned them specifically in their ToS.

  • @straptt
    I want to be stuck with a controller, as that is the input method i am used to, trained in & already own.
    I do not want to use a peripheral that is intended for typing emails to play my games with, kind of defeats the object of buying a console.
    I use my keyboard & mouse whilst sat at my desk, to do things like type this reply to you. I use my controller in my lounge sat in my lazyboy in front of my 65" 4K TV.

  • @sort-out-xplay said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @straptt
    I want to be stuck with a controller, as that is the input method i am used to, trained in & already own.
    I do not want to use a peripheral that is intended for typing emails to play my games with, kind of defeats the object of buying a console.
    I use my keyboard & mouse whilst sat at my desk, to do things like type this reply to you. I use my controller in my lounge sat in my lazyboy in front of my 65" 4K TV.

    Then you have made your choice and that is completely OK, I play to win so I have chosen to adjust and use the better input device. Good luck out there on the seas!

  • @sort-out-xplay said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @straptt
    I want to be stuck with a controller, as that is the input method i am used to, trained in & already own.
    I do not want to use a peripheral that is intended for typing emails to play my games with, kind of defeats the object of buying a console.
    I use my keyboard & mouse whilst sat at my desk, to do things like type this reply to you. I use my controller in my lounge sat in my lazyboy in front of my 65" 4K TV.

    PS, i bet the game looks awesome on a 65" 4k!

  • @boxcar-squidy
    Again, not asking for the end of crossplay, asking for it to be OPTIONAL AS IT IS IN EVERY OTHER CROSSPLAY GAME!!
    Ask yourself why it is optional in every other game? Because all other devs know there is an imbalance that can never be rectified.
    This is the only game that forces crossplay without option & as we have seen from before release it has & always will be a major issue.

  • @straptt
    Yes m8, looks awesome ;)

  • You see, although I'm against it, I think optional crossplay will come to the game eventually because of all these posts.

    Unfortunately, it won't solve your problems. As you'll see this is not a PC vs Xbox issue, and you can't split the player base depending on every single difference in a set-up. It will just make matchmaking harder.

    And, as for the macro argument, it's a small amount of PC players actually using it. What is more likely is that you seeing their ability to switch loadouts and fire quicker, which is possible on a K&M by default.

    Not all PC players use K&M (I use a controller only on PC).

    K&M support is coming to the game on Xbox One, just a matter of time.

    Finally, using the button mapping in the menu, it is possible for Xbox One players to simply remap the controls in order to do the same actions just as fast.

  • @sort-out-xplay so you'll be fine playing against kb + m users on xbox but you want the option not to play with them if they are on PC?

    Have you actually ever played SoT with a kb + m? Not a leading question or anything, I just want to understand where your perspective that there's this huge advantage is coming from.

    I play on PC with the SoT ltd edition controller. Never once felt that I was at any significant advantage, I'm not some God Tier controller user either, just a crusty middle aged scrub.

    Optional crossplay has the potential to damage the game for PC users. What if the majority of xbox players decide to use it? What happens to the PC player base when all of the servers are dead because the PC user base is so small?

    Are those issues that you've thought about? Have you got any solutions?

    I bet Rare has thought about it, tested extensively and have the real data on whether there is a significant disadvantage in using KB + M over a controller. They haven't said anything afaik, but they also haven't done a thing to change crossplay.

    Do you have any data to prove that the changes that you suggest are even necessary or is it all anecdotal stuff?

  • @boxcar-squidy
    Yep, have played with both & still do.
    Much easier to play on PC, i die less & kill more, but i prefer the comfort of my lounge rather than being stuck in my office.
    There is an old post by a former crossplay warrior that states many differences with video proof & lists timings for respawns etc, so there is evidence out there as well (if it wasn't deleted in one of the many forum cleanups!)
    At the moment all KB+M players are on PC, correct?
    So my issue lies there at the moment.

    6 boats or 24 players per server m8, if 14% of the population of players is PC the seas are hardly going to be dead. And it's not as if every xbox player would opt out.

  • @sort-out-xplay 16% of the 5 million unique users.

    How many of them are still playing? You cannot say anything definitive about what it would do to the PC user base. Neither can I. I can say that it has the potential to be a big issue, that is the only objective fact here.

    Not everyone on xbox would use it? How would you prevent them from all deciding to use it, if they had that option? If it's a potential problem it's a potential problem, "it probably won't happen" is not how you reason introducing a potential issue into your software.

    MS announced a kb + m for xbox to arrive this year. Rare confirmed support for SoT. You want to make a drastic change to the game now while acknowledging that the landscape will be different in a matter of months That's not how you develop a product.

    I couldn't care less about some random numbers you said you saw once. I don't think that really qualifies as data. I mean is it confirmed by other users? Replicable? Reliable? Does it even exist? I think I'll keep trusting Rare's judgement on this one, seeing as we know they collect data directly from the servers.

    Anyway, this is completely disrespectful to the OP. There's a megathread for this crossplay nonsense. Starting up this debate in another person's thread, which was on a different topic, is not reasonable and I apologise for my part in it.

  • @nefrit-od said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @p0pc0rnh3mer01d написал в Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @th3xr34p3r said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @p0pc0rnh3mer01d What really needs to be done is to separate PvP Player damage numbers of weapons from the PvE side, this will help better tune the rates for each type of encounter instead of having a single state for them.

    This way you can have the 80% damage dealt to mobs and adjust as needed for the rate against players.

    but currently sniper does not do 80% damage to a skelly sometimes skelly will take 3 sniper shots to go down

    did you do your home work before saying things like that ?
    All players have 100 HP
    But not all skelly's have 100 HP
    "noob" skelly lowest grade need only 3 slices with sword or to die,
    But "legendary" (not golden - white ones from legendary mission) need 3 and half full combo of slice.

    yes that was my point I think you replied to the wrong person

  • @lapinnoux Ai-je déjà navigué avec vous? Êtes-vous un de mes amis Québécois?

  • @boxcar-squidy
    No but the 6 ships / 24 players per server makes it so even if there were only 500 people playing you would notice no difference!
    The random numbers i saw once were collated by 2 pc players, 2 xbox players & were posted widely across the forum. Sorry i cant link to them, but they are over a year old now, but that just shows how long this issue has been around.
    Ever since @Capta1n-Cr0ss (PC player) was announced as the deadliest pirate in the alphas, that's when it started to become apparent. There were way more console alpha testers than pc & i mean way more. But the deadliest pirate & i would imagine the rest of the top 20 were all pc players too.
    I'm sure the OP won't mind, he's sick of the situation as well!!

    You keep believing & trusting Rare all you like, but as they keep basically lying & backtracking, avoiding important issues & keeping all relevant stats & info secret, i'd rather not! Also don't forget, Rare are owned by MS & all PC users hate MS ;)
    All sails you see will be another player (lie)
    We will not split the playerbase, add modes (lie)
    & then they say that this was there plan all along even though they stated these things would never happen in numerous developer videos.

  • @sort-out-xplay said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @boxcar-squidy
    Yep, have played with both & still do.
    Much easier to play on PC, i die less & kill more, but i prefer the comfort of my lounge rather than being stuck in my office.

    Stuck in your office? Guess you can't have the computer plugged on your telly so... how about one of these :D https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/

    play in the comfort of your lounge and still have your PC do the work. And use the input device of your choise. Very handy if you want couch gaming while having computer in different room... tho it does require you to use nvidia GPU (maxwell or higher)

    Not being paid for advertising :)

  • @boxcar-squidy said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @lapinnoux

    Firstly- you can do this on xbox, it's not as easy as on PC, but it can be done without difficulty. It doesn't require a macro, just fast button presses (which is basically what a macro is)

    Sorry mate, no human in the world is as fast as the slowest PC processor. Not physically possible to even equal the speed in which marco-enabled PC players can double gun vs. switching in manual mode on the console.

  • @boxcar-squidy said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    As far as being able to do this on a controller. You can. There are multiple ways, some more nefarious than others but I'm not going to go into the details here. On a basic level it involves pressing buttons really fast and no-scoping.

    Clearly you don't realize that human physical reaction time is no match...NO match for a processor doing the same thing on a macro-enabled PC. Do you see, it is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to match the micro-second speed at which PC'ers can switch guns using a macro.

  • @drayman86 You only need to come close to the speed at which the game and network will transfer your fire-switch-fire commands which can be a few milliseconds. Perfectly attainable by a human being.

  • @hynieth said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    I don't like doing this but I fully blame Rare for this, people have been posting it since day 1 and Rare has ignored it.

    BINGO ! !

    Rare has little to no incentive to fix this popular "game feature" which Rare has known about since the Beta.

    I'm no developer, but I game with someone who has over 15 years experience in the business.

    He states it would take all of 15 whopping minutes to fix the code and push the update to players. Rare has seemingly no motivation to fix it, regardless of wha the video updates from Joe Neate might intimate. Apologies if that's a bit harsh, yet this very much appears to be the reality.

  • @boxcar-squidy said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    You are here arguing semantics with me while pretending that some Xbox users aren't doing this too.

    Clearly, clearly you don't understand the differences between the platforms.

    PC players take advantage of the PC processor and macros that has the PC doing the weapons switch in a fraction of the time it takes a console player to do the same job manually.

    Hope this helps.

  • @boxcar-squidy said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:
    What happens to the PC player base when all of the servers are dead because the PC user base is so small?

    We'll be sad to see a low single-digit percentage of players leave the game, having exactly zero impact on the game's future.

  • "Macros are sequences of actions (such as keystrokes, mouse clicks, and delays) that can be played back to help with repetitive tasks. They can also be used to replay sequences that are long or difficult to run. You can assign a macro recorded in Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center to a key or a mouse button."

    Sorry folks, human physical reaction time PALES in comparison to a PC.

    SO.....the PC player can enable a set of commands THAT, with the stroke of a key, fires a weapon, switches to the next weapon, and then fires the next weapon...and it happens so fast as to appear instantaneous.

  • Or.....

  • Thanks to Joe Neate for the information in this week's Dev Update.

    Joe states cheating bans went out last week, and the macro issue will the addressed in the 6 February update.

    Looks like my criticisms have a reply; apologies for and unintended harshness. Just love the game and am dismayed when it's ruined by PVP Kiddies and their macros.

    I need to work on some Merch Cargo commendations, so off to do that in a sloop. I'll wait until after 6 Feb to get back to skelly forts.

  • @drayman86 said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @boxcar-squidy said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @lapinnoux

    Firstly- you can do this on xbox, it's not as easy as on PC, but it can be done without difficulty. It doesn't require a macro, just fast button presses (which is basically what a macro is)

    Sorry mate, no human in the world is as fast as the slowest PC processor. Not physically possible to even equal the speed in which marco-enabled PC players can double gun vs. switching in manual mode on the console.

    Mate, I've done the double gun thing personally using a controller, unmodified, no macro shenanigans. I know it works. I'm delighted that you got the chance to share your wonderful insight on processors though. Macros amplify the problem but the issue was there first. How do you think someone figured out to use that particular macro in the first place?

  • @sort-out-xplay I'd still rather take it to the mega thread to be honest. This conversstion about crossplay has been going on since before launch. Every single argument for and against has been articulated every imaginable way. My stance is:

    remove crossplay - no.

    Optional crossplay - only if it can be proven to not be detrimental to the game and has tangible benefits for the majority of the player base with sufficient reasoning for the change.

    Remain as is - well if it aint broke (and I'll need some convincing in the form of evidence, hard numbers from an official / reputable source to believe it is) don't fix it.

    But more than anything else I'm just tired of this conversation, not talking with you personally, I've just I've heard it all before, so many times, it's grinding my soul into dust. I've heard every part of this debate on both sides hundreds of times. It's an endless circle of the same opinions and arguments rehashed over and over.

    That's why there's a megathread, the entire forum is tired of this conversation and they took the decision to shuffle it off to the other room like you'd do with an elderly person who's had too much to drink at Christmas and started to get a bit racist.

    One day this argument will be put to rest, but it won't be today and it won't be in this thread.

  • @sort-out-xplay said in Quitting SOT 'til Macros Fixed:

    @straptt
    I want to be stuck with a controller, as that is the input method i am used to, trained in & already own.
    I do not want to use a peripheral that is intended for typing emails to play my games with, kind of defeats the object of buying a console.
    I use my keyboard & mouse whilst sat at my desk, to do things like type this reply to you. I use my controller in my lounge sat in my lazyboy in front of my 65" 4K TV.

    Then use the controller on the PC version of the game.. nothing is stopping you from doing so. The argument of control options on a console over a PC are moot.

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