Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?

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  • I've been very vocal here about the EoR's hipfire accuracy issue even before the double-gunning exploit was well known. With it, you can no-scope a player with it accurately from approximately 2 rowboats in length, which coincidentally, is also the flintlock's sweet-spot (thereby making the flintlock rather pointless to use).

    Which would you rather choose?
    Flintlock = 50 damage; accurate out to approximately 2 rowboats in length, or
    EoR = 80 damage; accurate at all ranges with scope (and equally accurate to flintlock without it)

    The answer seems obvious to me. Therefore, the EoR is still unbalanced and should be nerfed in some way that demotes close-range use and promotes long-range use - as intended for its role.

    Intended Weapon Roles:
    Cutlass = best in class for its versatility
    Blunderbuss = best in class for short-range
    Flintlock = best in class for medium-range
    EoR = best in class for long-range

    IMO, the Eye of Reach, when hip-fired, should have the accuracy equal to that of 1 random pellet from the blunderbuss (meaning it could literally just go about anywhere).

    Alternatively, I've noticed that skeletons only do about 40% damage with it. If this damage amount applied to the player's EoR during hip-fire use, it would be exactly half damage, which makes sense (to me at least) making the flintlock the superior choice at mid-range and incentivizing the use of the scope instead (which could still be used up close, but is balanced out with its time to aim and difficulty of tracking the target with a narrower PoV). If this alternative method is used, I would also recommend buffing the flintlock's damage by 10% (from 50% to 60%) and the cutlass slash by 5% (from 20% to 25%).

    With my proposed changes, here would be the new weapon damage values:
    Cutlass = 25% slash (☠☠☠☠) / 50% stab (☠☠)
    Flintlock = 60% (☠☠)
    Blunderbuss = 10 pellets at 10% each (☠ up to ☠x10)
    Eye of Reach = 80% scoped (☠☠) / 40% no-scoped (☠☠☠)

    For reference, ☠= # of hits to kill

    It all would round out nicely, IMO.

    My Weapon Combo Hit-to-Kill Ratios:
    Cutlass/Flintlock = ☠☠/☠
    Cutlass/Blunderbuss = varies
    Cutlass/EoR = ☠/☠ scoped; ☠☠☠/☠ no-scoped
    Flintlock/Blunderbuss = varies
    Flintlock/EoR = ☠/☠ scoped; ☠/☠ no-scoped
    Blunderbuss/EoR = varies

    As you can see, it effectively nerfs the EoR while maintaining its strengths and rounding out the damage values for everything else across the board.

  • We don't know how there fixing it. This could be solved at same time of double gunning

  • @sprungnickel427 That was hilarious. I love Captain Falcore, I watch his videos on Youtube and they are all great. Really enjoyed the lore ones and learnt so much.

  • While I am not opposed to accuracy penalties for hip firing (especially EOR because hip firing such a gun is a bit silly as it wouldn't be holstered on your hip), my view is that problem is going to pretty much disappear with whatever Rare implements to fix double gunning. If there is a delay in pulling a gun and firing it, there doesn't feel to me that there will be any massive advantage to doing it.

  • I'd like to point out that quick scoping with the EoR really isn't that easy to do nor anything like CoD. In CoD you can shoot as you are aiming, but I've tried that with the EoR and it seems to require you to be fully scoped in before being fireable. Maybe I am wrong but I've been using it for a week now and I've had multiple fights where I've tried to shoot too early and it threw me off, resulting in me being hit. I don't think people should complain about everything that is good in a game, just adapt to it or use it yourself. The META shouldn't be resisted, just embraced and adapted to.

  • @targasbr What ship is that in the background?

  • @targasbr said in Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    @pcmr4lyfeboi I usually use logic to think of solutions, before thinking about a change, I ask the following:

    • Is this going to balance the game better?
    • Is this really necessary?
    • I'm asking this because it's unfair to other players?
    • Am I really not asking for simple personal tantrums?
    • Is this going to help other players?
    • Is it worth putting a team of developers in charge of this change and have other priorities?

    If the answer is YES to ALL questions, I support the idea. If it is not for some of them, I think we should discuss the idea until everyone comes to an agreement.

    In this particular case, I stopped short on the first answering as no. Therefore, it is not worthwhile to carry on the other issues.

    I assume you are a PC player? No other reason you would be against it as you don't want to loose your blatant advantage.

  • @enticed-malice said in Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    lets nerf everything and split everyone up in sword only servers, instagib EoR servers, then mix that all up with input separation also. Oh can't forget separation of ship type servers too. make sot great

    PC player? 😂😂😂

  • Perhaps the answer is to make the EoR do no damage unless the target is at least 1 square away on the map, and sighted in through the scope for a minimum of 5 seconds. (I don't think that I have made enough posts for all to read the sarcasm into that statement) Or.... you can learn to use the weapons with the system in place. If a weapon is, in your opinion, meta, learn how to use it. I have used the eye of reach since before the update that reduced the load time. It was just a superior weapon to have since it had the ability to use it as a spyglass as well. In close combat, I relied upon my movement and my cutlass. Am I a top tier pirate? No! However I can hold my own. Everyone has the ability to take advantage of this weapon. I don't know why more don't. Unless you are looking to play vicariously as if you were in some Disney pirate movie... "We named the monkey 'Jack'"... Also, throwing the PC argument into this weapon is just ridiculous as well. My first mate (captain?) uses the same setup that I use; cutlass and eye of reach. The difference? I am on PC and he is on console. We are not the best PVP players on any map, but we can both hold our own.

  • @binaryplayerone I disagree actually I love the eye of reach the way it is! Whats unbalanced about it? (Other than the double gun)

  • @binaryplayerone ... as well as hare-like bouncing around. Don't understand why a sword attack makes me pause breathlessly, but I can jump around for hours like a rubber ball.

  • @binaryplayerone they are fixing double gunning for me its enough i dont care about quickscope and the rest, double gunning was the problem.

  • @binaryplayerone

    Hipfire and quickscope is manageble.
    Even with hipfire and quickscope they cant shoot u within 1 second at full HP.

    The double tap gun was the problem if they fix this than it should be fine.

    Even if they still hipfire or quickscope. The 2nd hit will not be as fast as the double gun and therefor u can eat banana and survive. Or even come out on top.

  • @weakdexx dude, come on. Hipfire sniper is the CQB weapon? you think that's natural? Intended? lol, no.

  • @mcgovery of course. lol.

  • @garbhchu disse em Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    @targasbr What ship is that in the background?

    Ship? I do not understand, can you explain me better?

  • @mcgovery disse em Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    I assume you are a PC player? No other reason you would be against it as you don't want to loose your blatant advantage.

    Xbox player. And PC does not have as much advantage in this game to require such drastic changes.

  • @targasbr Your estimation is incorrect. PC absolutely does have enough advantage to warrant optional crossplay and its the right thing for rare to implement.

  • @galactic-geek said in Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    I've been very vocal here about the EoR's hipfire accuracy issue even before the double-gunning exploit was well known. With it, you can no-scope a player with it accurately from approximately 2 rowboats in length, which coincidentally, is also the flintlock's sweet-spot (thereby making the flintlock rather pointless to use).

    Which would you rather choose?
    Flintlock = 50 damage; accurate out to approximately 2 rowboats in length, or
    EoR = 80 damage; accurate at all ranges with scope (and equally accurate to flintlock without it)

    The answer seems obvious to me. Therefore, the EoR is still unbalanced and should be nerfed in some way that demotes close-range use and promotes long-range use - as intended for its role.

    Intended Weapon Roles:
    Cutlass = best in class for its versatility
    Blunderbuss = best in class for short-range
    Flintlock = best in class for medium-range
    EoR = best in class for long-range

    IMO, the Eye of Reach, when hip-fired, should have the accuracy equal to that of 1 random pellet from the blunderbuss (meaning it could literally just go about anywhere).

    Alternatively, I've noticed that skeletons only do about 40% damage with it. If this damage amount applied to the player's EoR during hip-fire use, it would be exactly half damage, which makes sense (to me at least) making the flintlock the superior choice at mid-range and incentivizing the use of the scope instead (which could still be used up close, but is balanced out with its time to aim and difficulty of tracking the target with a narrower PoV). If this alternative method is used, I would also recommend buffing the flintlock's damage by 10% (from 50% to 60%) and the cutlass slash by 5% (from 20% to 25%).

    With my proposed changes, here would be the new weapon damage values:
    Cutlass = 25% slash (☠☠☠☠) / 50% stab (☠☠)
    Flintlock = 60% (☠☠)
    Blunderbuss = 10 pellets at 10% each (☠ up to ☠x10)
    Eye of Reach = 80% scoped (☠☠) / 40% no-scoped (☠☠☠)

    For reference, ☠= # of hits to kill

    It all would round out nicely, IMO.

    My Weapon Combo Hit-to-Kill Ratios:
    Cutlass/Flintlock = ☠☠/☠
    Cutlass/Blunderbuss = varies
    Cutlass/EoR = ☠/☠ scoped; ☠☠☠/☠ no-scoped
    Flintlock/Blunderbuss = varies
    Flintlock/EoR = ☠/☠ scoped; ☠/☠ no-scoped
    Blunderbuss/EoR = varies

    As you can see, it effectively nerfs the EoR while maintaining its strengths and rounding out the damage values for everything else across the board.

    Pretty much agree with all of this. Right now there is no point in taking the pistol over the EoR if you're only going to take one firearm. The EoR does need some tweaking and the suggestions here seem fair and make sense, to me at least. It's supposed to be the best weapon to use at long range - however, right now, it's the best ranged weapon to use altogether. Here's hoping that the double-gun changes will also come with some tweaks to the EoR to give us a reason to once again take a pistol.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi

    We currently have MUCH more PvE than PvP. I usually play a lot every day. On average 4 hours a day, and on weekends, usually from 12 to 16 hours playing, more than 40 hours/week playing. In a week I have about 3 to 5 hours of PvP itself. Overall, near the forts. Far from the fort we rarely see players in PvP, when we see, are like the ones I found yesterday, I was attacked by two (only two? Yes!) Players in a galleon while I was on a sloop. They saw that I had nothing, yet they continued. I warned them, said I did not want to fight either. They insisted, the result? It was cool to see them sink and still offend me by the game chat.

    BTW, I do not believe that assigning the Rare developers to these superfluous changes would help anything. In fact, I believe that if many of them come to say that they have corrected without touching anything, the community will be satisfied and look for something else to complain about.

    We have priorities now: More content, bug fixes, new game modes, new events.

    Looking for things to change because of our own lack of ability does not make sense...

  • @targasbr Man thats a whole lot of words to arrive at "git gud". lol

    and its a distraction, how you or I fare individually (we sink ships too) doesnt really matter. Its about the fact that its not a level playing field, regardless of how well you or I do at it.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi to be honest, i don't know what "git gud" means...
    Anyway, I agree with you, but most part of who complains about this changes doesn't ask if it can improve. They prefer to put weights on the faster horse instead of training the slower horse.

  • @targasbr You're always gonna be wrong about this if you think its about improving "the slower horse" lol.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi But it's still all about skill.

  • @targasbr No it really isnt. Its often about tactics even more than skill, but the imbalance in combat between PC and Xbox is definitely about advantage that PC players inherently get, typically. (yes yes I knwo there are dumpster PCs out there too)

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi Yes, tactics. I believe this helps those who do not have the skill. I for example am not good at aiming, so I use my sword to kill opponents. But indirectly this is also part of skill. Some people are better at shooting, others are better at thinking and seeing patterns.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi

    CQB?
    Yes i argh noob and dont know what this means.

    If u explain this than i answer :P

  • @weakdexx Close Quarters Battle.

  • Great so you want to take skill away from players? The double shot fair enough was not an intended mechanic.

    How ever there is nothing wrong with the hip fire.

    These complaints are coming from nearly everyone that find themselves being bested in combat by better players.

    Next thing that they will be asking devs is "OMG Cannons are OP can they be removed?"

    Give us a break please!

  • @mrphilfy said in Double shoot is getting fixed. Next, quickscoping/hipshoot!?:

    However there is nothing wrong with the hip fire.

    These complaints are coming from nearly everyone that find themselves being bested in combat by better players.

    I addressed the FACTS as to how and why hipfiring the EoR is unbalanced in my post above, as well as offered multiple, possible solutions. In contrast, you're ignoring the issue, not offering a reason for why you think nothing's wrong with it, and are belittling others in the process.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi I really don't understand why you think that PC players have an advantage. I think you assume that we all play on super gaming rigs worth thousands of dollars. Most of us (admittedly not me, but most of my friends) play on average rigs that from what I have seen when watching the game played on Xbox seem to be exactly the same (in fact I swear one of my friends has a worse load time then the standard Xbox, welcome to Windows 10!).

    In which case that basically just leaves the difference in input device. Xbox either now has M + KB or is about to get it, in which case what advantage is there? I have heard people say that they don't want to use a M + KB, ok, so what, that isn't an advantage for PC you are just making a choice for personal convenience.

    Even if M + KB was a massive advantage (and I am yet to ever see any evidence that it is), it would only be an advantage in personal combat. I almost never see personal combat, and only if something goes terribly wrong. It has been a bit ridiculous recently on those times that I do see personal combat due to double gunning, but double gunning (including though using macros) is available on both a M +KB and on a controller. Most personal combat happens on a ship, either defending it in which case you have a ridiculous amount of time to line your controller up on the ladder to stop them getting aboard, or if attacking why are you worrying about fighting them. We usually, to great effect, instead use boarding actions to deliver presents of gunpowder barrels for all the good little boys and girls on the other ship. Or we jump around and use our boarder as a distraction, you know things like dropping their anchor, raising their sails, slashing at people if they try to use their cannons, repair, etc. The point isn't to kill their crew as the crew will just respawn, what needs to be done is to destroy the ship. So the boarder distracts for as long as possible while the ships does as much damage to them as possible. I doubt that there is any significant advantage between input device, and there certainly hasn't been any evidenced - I also believe that if there was then Rare, who are the only people who can see the stats would have already taken action. The difference between victory and loss comes down to the player's skill at the game, and any minor difference between input device can be easily overcome.

    M + KB provides absolutely zero advantage when sailing the ship, firing cannons, etc. You could possibly even argue that it might be easier aiming cannons with a controller, but personally I think that comes down to personal taste and tweaking your settings.

    So what is this massive advantage you are always stating but I have never seen you actually detail?

  • @salvasian-au Play on Xbox. Find out, heh.

  • @pcmr4lyfeboi

    Find out

    Not an argument. Answer his question, I'm eager to hear your reasoning.

  • @urihamrayne Sorry its not my job to prove anything to him. I don't need him to believe. Clearly he plays on PC so he doesn't know, if he wants to know, he should try it and find out.

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