Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them

  • @captainblastoff If I misspoke than I'm sorry. Let me clarify.

    High level players are usually looking out for mermaids because we are at a high level of alert. We generally are. However it has nothing to do with self capabilities. It is purely on attentiveness and being mindful of your surroundings which anyone is capable of doing.

    So yes it is a defense mechanism for players and changing it just gives high level players WAY too many advantages.

    @Schwammlgott
    edit The hiding the mermaid is not a glitch, hes talking about rowboats which I think a lot of players have already realized and now will avoid outposts if they see a rowboat also. If you are on a rowboat a mermaid will disapear and if you row a rowboat to an island then the mermaid will not spawn.

  • @captainblastoff sagte in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @schwammlgott said in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @captainblastoff I didn't read all posts, but first I think the mermaid should stay as it is
    And second, there is a way so the mermaid doesn't spawn, didn't try it on an outpost, but it works on every other island so it should work there too...but I think I won't tell you, because I don't like outpost camper...never had to deal with them, because I always recognized them early enough to kill them/change to another outpost

    Nice contribution to this conversation, glad the game's balanced around secret bugs and exploits and not common sense.

    As an aside, I literally just had a bug where I got dropped off my boat and the mermaid just wouldn't spawn so I had to drown myself. Good mechanics all-round.

    It actually isn't a bug...it's an intended (i assume) mechanic...that's why I'm wondering that nobody mentioned it yet

  • @xultanis-dragon you're right, I meant the rowboat...and as I said, I almost never hear people talk about this "feature"

  • Mermaids need to be included as they are because it is a tell that is the price of being away from your ship. For stealth reasons I think boarding a ship (even one that's not your own) should cause the mermaid to de-spawn. That way you could properly stowaway and it would fit the lore because there is no one in the water to be saved. The fact is if a crew of 4 could all be on the island with no mermaid to give them away there are LOTS of players who would take advantage of this and we would have obscene amount of outpost griefing. There is talk in this thread about the mechanic of the giveaway not being "earned" but being separated from your ship on an island means you receive a penalty.

    The Mermaid is the albatross around the neck of the ancient mariner.

    What they need to fix is when an enemy ship is sunk and all players killed and the mermaid doesn't despawn. You're paranoid because you assume someone is around but can't tell if the mermaid is glitched or not.

  • @schwammlgott said in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @captainblastoff sagte in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @schwammlgott said in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @captainblastoff I didn't read all posts, but first I think the mermaid should stay as it is
    And second, there is a way so the mermaid doesn't spawn, didn't try it on an outpost, but it works on every other island so it should work there too...but I think I won't tell you, because I don't like outpost camper...never had to deal with them, because I always recognized them early enough to kill them/change to another outpost

    Nice contribution to this conversation, glad the game's balanced around secret bugs and exploits and not common sense.

    As an aside, I literally just had a bug where I got dropped off my boat and the mermaid just wouldn't spawn so I had to drown myself. Good mechanics all-round.

    It actually isn't a bug...it's an intended (i assume) mechanic...that's why I'm wondering that nobody mentioned it yet

    How do you know it isn't a bug? Did a dev say so or is it actually just an assumption? Regardless that just makes it so high level players who know the meta can abuse obscure features and wreck havoc on noobs even harder. I know I will now.

  • @captainblastoff

    Why would it be a bug? Its a boat you are on why would you need a mermaid to spawn as you are rowing. Again its awareness it all boils down to awareness. The row boat was actually known. Making it seem like a big deal that you'll use that tactic now when people have been using it for a while now. Being aware of things is not dependent on level of play but more so on awareness. Its just that high level players are generally always on high alert by nature thats it.

    Experience is learned and taught. Just because they don't know the meta now doesn't mean they won't be able to learn about it later.

    Its almost as if you are intentionally just ignoring what people are saying. If you are mad because you keep getting caught trying to do stuff than you got caught, either be better or hope they are complacent enough to not notice.

  • @xultanis-dragon You're the one who said it's a defense for low level players, not me. Yet here we are talking about how they have to learn the meta if they want to use it properly as a defense mechanism? So it's clearly not a good defense mechanism for low-level players if good players can just throw a rowboat on an island and get around the mermaid giving them away.

    I'm fine with that the row-boat feature being in-game, as it just gives me a way to game the system. And I was just asking if you knew it was a feature based on a game dev commenting on it or not, I didn't claim it was a bug, but I'd lean towards it being an unintended feature, much like the sword lunge just based on the history of the game.

    "u mad?" isn't a counterpoint to anything. Just because someone's mad at something doesn't mean they're wrong about it. This is a discussion about whether it's a good feature in the first place, and whether it can be improved if it's not, or improved even further if it is.

  • @m1sterpunch sagte in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    What they need to fix is when an enemy ship is sunk and all players killed and the mermaid doesn't despawn. You're paranoid because you assume someone is around but can't tell if the mermaid is glitched or not.

    This is because one of them is still on the ferry, as long they stay there the mermaid won't disappear

  • @captainblastoff I have determined that you dont actual read what people write and just skim through it. You did it twice and one I can forgive because maybe it was me, but after the second time thats obviously you.

    There is applicable skill which is actual skill level. Being able to fight, defend, suggest tactics on the fly. Its like chess. There are chess masters but you don't need to be a chess master to learn the rules.

    Learning about the meta doesn't make you a high level player. This is true for any game. Even games like starcraft, people can learn the pro level strat but they can't keep up with the actual APM needed to fight at that skill level. Same with this game. Low level and mid level players can learn about the meta of the game, doesn't change the fact that they have a hard time actually fighting in this game. Learning how to read a mermaid and how to pay attention to mermaids has nothing to do with actual skill level. I've explained this the first time, a second time, and now a third time.

    You want to make changes to the mermaids? Fine but again be aware of other players who at a disadvantage simply because of capabilities. The mermaid is a good a way for them to defend themselves. Even if they miss it its still their to help. Remove it or make it harder to notice than you are just asking for these players to be completely out gamed and abused.

  • I like the mermaid system, except when you want to sneak on someone, it's getting impossible as people are getting aware of the mermaids.
    Something happens to your ship, let's say you sink during a fort battle. You can't even hide to try to fight your enemy when they are not paying attention, they will see a mermaid popping out the water and the witch hunt begins. I had way more interesting encounters when I was not aware and also people were not aware of the mermaids. Why hide in an outpost when people can see your mermaid around? Why even hide in the game?
    Few months ago the devs made your name disappear under the water so you could board ships in a sneaky way, so sneaking is intended, yet you had to deal with the noise of coming out of the water, which you can avoid in a certain way, and the mermaid following you (also let's not forget the sharks) until you reach your target.
    If your mermaid is near you, you are already in a disadvantage of not having a ship around, well you might be even outnumbered. You have one life, you try your best not die and respawn somewhere else, you can try to hide from the skeletons, but yet the mermaid will signal that someone is around.
    I wish we could signal the mermaid to leave if I don't want to come back to my ship, simple as that...

  • @xultanis-dragon said in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    @captainblastoff I have determined that you dont actual read what people write and just skim through it. You did it twice and one I can forgive because maybe it was me, but after the second time thats obviously you.

    There is applicable skill which is actual skill level. Being able to fight, defend, suggest tactics on the fly. Its like chess. There are chess masters but you don't need to be a chess master to learn the rules.

    Learning about the meta doesn't make you a high level player. This is true for any game. Even games like starcraft, people can learn the pro level strat but they can't keep up with the actual APM needed to fight at that skill level. Same with this game. Low level and mid level players can learn about the meta of the game, doesn't change the fact that they have a hard time actually fighting in this game. Learning how to read a mermaid and how to pay attention to mermaids has nothing to do with actual skill level. I've explained this the first time, a second time, and now a third time.

    You want to make changes to the mermaids? Fine but again be aware of other players who at a disadvantage simply because of capabilities. The mermaid is a good a way for them to defend themselves. Even if they miss it its still their to help. Remove it or make it harder to notice than you are just asking for these players to be completely out gamed and abused.

    Despite the ad hominems I have actually been reading your entire comments. I just don't find your argument very persuasive, I also just don't think it's all that coherent. You say to be aware of other players who aren't that good/experienced and how changing the mechanic might affect them negatively and sure, I agree, but I mean that literally just applies to every single mechanic in the game and isn't a good argument against changing this one, especially considering the system as is seems to really just benefit players with the most experience.

    It also benefits ships with the most amount of crew-mates on-board as it's easier for 1/4 crew to keep watch than a solo-sloop or duo. So my proposed change would be a slight boost to smaller crews (not sure if this is good or bad honestly, but I feel like it's a good change).

    In my opinion, the current system leads to a poor experience and even more importantly, unpredictable game-play. As is you just have to hope you get lucky and it doesn't show up right as you approach an enemy. Sometimes the mermaid will appear right when you don't want it to, other times it doesn't. Sometimes it appears properly when you get thrown off your ship, other times it doesn't. Sometimes it appears on the opposite side an island you're marooned on, sometimes it appears right in front of you. If people think this type of RNG is actually good for the game then I don't know what to say, that position baffles me.

    @dutrah said in Mermaids should only appear if you're not holding an item / if you summon them:

    I wish we could signal the mermaid to leave if I don't want to come back to my ship, simple as that...

    I like this idea a lot as well, just being able to signal to it to go away for a bit or something.

  • how about a Ocarina like flute.. u play it and up pops ur Mermaid or MerMAN. "moisture is the essence of wetness"

  • @captainblastoff I love this idea, it makes it better when sneaking a keg on or hiding loot. I remember getting sunk and swimming away with a nice chest, I was hoping the other loot would keep them busy.

    I was sweating because even though I was swimming under water and only popping up for a second for air, the darn mermaid kept following me around.

  • I think stealty game play has to be encouraged.

    Remember the one who hides/camps/sneaks has a big disadvatage if you don't let him come on your ship. He only has 5 bullits on him and if he dies he wound come back!

    So let the sneaky player summon the mermaid with a blow on a shell (Whitch is a new item in the inventory wheel) The sound summons the mermaid next to the player or if he is on land as close as possible in the nearest water.

    And on top of it implement crouching that hides nametag. When you crouch you can also move but only at walkingspeed. Sneaky fun!

  • It seems to all boil down to a subjective opinion of what constitutes acceptable camping/ambushing vs unfair camping/ambushing, imv.

    The existence of the mermaid alone, and only at an outpost, apparently, specifically determines whether a camping/ambush tactic is fair/acceptable play, or not.

    It's not that camping/ambushing is unacceptable in SoT. A player can snipe, kill, steal your haul, sink your ship, anywhere else at any time... and there's no need for a mermaid. That's okay. But it's not okay to grant that same freedom to camp/ambush, minus the mermaid, at an Outpost.

    To be clear, camping/ambushing is acceptable at outposts... just not unless the mermaid is somewhere within an outposts vicinity so that it can potentially be detected, which makes the camping/ambushing at the outpost ok.

    Somehow the existence of a mermaid somewhere within the perimeter of an outpost provides balance; a possibility for the player being ambushed to be warned to avoid, or fight back. But... in every other situation in SoT, camping/ambushing minus mermaid is acceptable play.

    As it stands now, all other situations where a mermaid unfairly gives away a players location, giving advantage to their opponents, apparently, is the price the stealthy players must pay so that all other players arriving at an outpost can feel safer.

    Yeah, I still can't reconcile this. Oh, well.

  • @Xultanis-Dragon i dont get why you are defending a mechanic and subsequent tactic that coddles these low lvl players as you describe them, rather than force them to learn. Having to use their eyes to see the mermaid and having to use their eyes to check the dock and island with their spyglass are the same thing, one just removes any fun, strategy, and skill from the equation...

    there are about 1000 other things that should be done if preventing camping is what rare really wants, such as making the turn ins less campable and all on the docks, or any sort of other suggestion.

    The fact that we can name like 5 different unique encounters where the mermaid basically ruins any strategy and turns the sandbox gameplay into a predictable joke, is enough for me to discount the one positive needle in a haystack, that honestly isnt even a positive unless you feel like youve accomplished something by avoiding the only gameplay this game is standing on, player interaction and pvp, by doing nothing, and having a mermaid tell you to pretend you arent a pirate and run away... im not saying running and gunning and waiting for your opportunity are cowardly, im saying the way you guys describe the ultimate need for this mechanic implies that people who always play this way desperately need it to survive, which may be true as they have hit their plateau as you said, and that is their road to success, fair enough and good on them, nobody is against this mechanic because they want to kick a crutch out from under someone who needs it to stand up in this game, its because its genuinely a bad mechanic accross the board as it is designed, conceptually i totally understand the idea though, and am not against that either. Im happy to have them change the game to help give visual cues or like i said direct info through an npc or something.

    Keeping the mermaid as is based on these players using it in an unintended way instead of properly designing options and assets for them to use to defend them is just dumb, its like the no child left behind garbage at schools. Yeah lets just throw away the potential some have so that someone else can pretend everyone is equal and the world is perfect, so that someone dosnt “feel bad” when faced with the truth. Obviously education of the next generation is more important than a video game designed to be fun for everyone, but they should design more things for multiple types of players, rather than make a game called sea of thieves with foam padding everywhere. Different servers or actual factions and rules and repercussion in game, etc. the mermaid as is should not be defended as anything except its orignal use, to make alpha sessions that were timed have less wasted time picking up players who fell overboard, and if the death penalty was added players wouldnt use death as the new mermaid. The game needs to grow and evolve not cling to first iterations of mechanics, especially when they are so obviously broken.

    If they actually added more systems and facets to the gameplay to solve issues instead of having this “good enough” attitude when designing where they use semantics and the luck of unintended things happening such as the communities dependance on the mermaid becoming a thing, when they orginally said it was a first iteration and then didnt change it because people said they desperately needed it the way it is, we might all be happy with a change.

    Let players who dont like combat and have a low plateau to designate their ship a merchant vessel, where they are punished for piracy but rewarded with npc guards and a parrot that can be sent out to detect player movement on the chosen island, sure some players will still camp successfully, but i cant remember a time where ive opportunistically sprung an outpost ambush where we didnt move around and hide etc, this idea is off the top of my head and i dont claim it is the greatest, but the point is there should be more decisions to be made and attached possibilities for emergence, with any mechanic in this game, rather than the predictability and lack of stealth we see from a mechanic that is being defended as needed for something it wasnt designed for.

    If they need something to fix the supposed outpost issue (pirate game, with no safe zones, seems intended to me...) then design something to fix the issue, and also fix the mermaid to be the last resort and safety net it was designed to be, rather than the overused teleport and pvp reset and endless suicide boarding joke that it currently is.

  • @captainblastoff I remember there were a few ideas about a Conch Shell being an item used to summon mermaids, to stop this exact issue. Would make sense, brings more immersion into the world in my opinion

  • There are two points of view about summoning them. One is that it is a game skill to get it where you want it right now, and the other is that summoning one to your location is more realistic and can also help in other situations. It also means that if you fall off of the ship you can instantly summon it.

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