[Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2

@mortarchelle said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@solestone563412 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

Bad idea and a Better Solution (post moved to this forum by request)

1 It can’t compete on the market. Combat in SoT is clunky and a secondary element of the game. Not so in many other games where it is done with finesse.

2 It splits the community. You may well play both, but you can’t be there and here at the same time.

3 It takes resources (time, energy, money) away from the Devs improving SoT.

4 It will hurt the regular game(see 2 and 3) SoT will be far less challenging and exciting when the "aggressive" Pirates are hanging out in the Arena.

5 We already have an Arena, it’s called the Sea of Thieves.

The better way: Introduce the Sea Farers faction to the regular game (exactly like you did with the Bilge Rats). Give them their own money (Florins?, Guilders?) and some occasional commendation events. Make the rewards for victory so tempting that even players who aren’t normally inclined to PvP think twice about giving it a shot. There’s nothing you can do in Arena that can’t be done, with a little creativity, within in the SoT.

I understand your idea of incorporating the Arena into the existing world with separate commendations and such, and it would be a good idea, but it doesn't solve the core issues of PvP which are that it is hard to find. With a map that will only continue to grow on a server whose capacity is still limited to 6 ships, you can sail for quite a while before coming across a boat, only to spend an hour chasing it. That isn't PvP.

What PvPers have called for, and what Rare hopes to satisfy with Arena, is constant PvP action for those who love to battle. PvP at the fingertips. Best part? It's PvP vs. other players who want to PvP....so we can no longer be accused of "griefing", "bullying", etc. We wanted PvP at anytime versus crews who want the same. Enter The Arena.

Yup, there is no solution for PvP players in the sandbox unless you dedicate the sandbox to PvP which just can't happen without upsetting a lot of players. The core problem with PvP is players just aren't participating in PvP because they are trying to do something else.

@solestone563412 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@mortarchelle With all the PvPers gone, the Sea of Thieves is going to be a pretty peaceful, boring place.

It not hard to incorporate all the concepts of Arena into the game without 2 modes. This is a Microsoft Money Grab aimed entirely at propping up their failing Xbox/PC cross-play vision.

Here's just a quick example that took me all of 2 mintutes to think of: New faction (SeaFarers) arranges "capture the flag" event at regular intervals. Similar to the Skellie Ships. Winner gets the treasure plus 1 level in Sea Farers with a win (plus some commendations). Become level 50 in Seafarers, 50 in Gold Hoarders, 50 in Merchants, 50 in Order of Souls and you become a Pirate Lord. Also there is a new currency (Florins) that can only be earned doing Sea Farer missions. Unlocks all new skins!

See! You don't need a big brain or a crazy creativity to fit Arena into the SoT at all. This is a cop out by Rare and I bet Microsoft is behind it. (...although Rare will never admit this.)

Nearly all of my crew have been looking at other games to pick up that could fill the void that SoT has created. There was not going to be an option to keep us if they didn't make a dedicated play space purely for PvP where players in that space couldn't easily opt out of that experience. If you choose arena your there to PvP...

Your idea to try to create a capture the flag event within the same map is an awful idea because again... people don't have to play it, which means no guarantee the other side bothers to show up to participate. Guess what... they already have a space to PvP in SoT kinda... forts. Forts were the PvP place... Just Saturday we showed up, murdered 2 brigs + 1 sloop in an alliance at a fort and they called us greifers with no lives, and just wanted to steal their effort.

Your 5 min brainstorm is failing to understand the real issue with PvP... and that its in a sandbox where there are no real finite resources that create necessities for players to fight over. Voyages are all non shared experiences... then people can take your loot on the back end once your done. The rewards are contestable, the gathering is not.

@nathanuserectus said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

Does anyone remember H1Z1 Just survive before they added a BR mode? If you do then you know how this is going to end lol..

I don't think h1z1 is all that relatable. It was a PvP survival sandbox... and BR is just a better way to frame PvP in a survival sandbox.

@nathanuserectus said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@savagetwinky Yes but it was also a PVE/PVP game..same as sea of thieves..you did not have to kill people..it was a choice..you had to fight zombies...in SOT you fight skeletons..SOT is PVE/PVP and so was H1Z1..then they came out with a BR and now that game is shut down.

It really wasn't the same kind of PvE though, resources weren't as abundant and it created a shortage and a need to potentially fight other players. It wasn't just... I don't feel like doing another GH quest... I'm just going to kill these people and see if I can get a shortcut at their expense.

@trickrtreat01 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

My guess is that eventually they will take all PVP out of adventure mode. This is step one to implementing pve and pvp servers. They call it arena mode and try and sell it like it's something good.

People in adventure mode will still complain because some of us won't buy in to arena mode and keep sinking ships in adventure mode. Rare eventually tells us we have our pvp mode and makes adventure mode strictly pve.

Arena mode is lame. It takes all the great aspects of SoT and removes them. The greatest aspect of all is who can be trusted and who can't be.

Friend or foe ? Now you will know. Lame, lame, lame.

Dude, I’m sure you know from our experience sailing together the last few times; the current servers are practically already PvE (unfortunately). Do I believe these servers will become even more friendly after arena is added... mmm... it can’t get anymore PvE than 0 player interaction to begin with, lol.

But seriously, I get it. Will any player interaction that might occur in adventure mode be PvP after arena is added? No, majority of player interaction that will go down in adventure mode will always be PvE. But people can’t complain about people going care free earning loot. I mean come on, that’s what everyone is doing right now anyway!

I think Rare at this point had to go to the extreme. If you ask me, there was just no way they could’ve done anything to the current servers to juice this game back to life. I mean, look at the forums after news of the arena dropped, they’ve never been so alive. Whether it’s controversial or not, it’s created a spark in SoT. And that makes me way stoked. I haven’t gotten this excited about SoT since the last fort battle I did, which was long ago.

@d3adst1ck said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@scraping-static said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

If you ask me, there was just no way they could’ve done anything to the current servers to juice this game back to life.

What? There's been over a year of ideas posted here based on fixing what is wrong with the game.

I’m well aware of that. But did Rare take any action on any of the suggestions? Not that I’ve seen. None of the actual game changing stuff anyway. And if they were to address every single idea and implement it to make the game better, they’d struggle, they’d be overwhelmed, would have problems, and by the time they got the game “fixed”, who would be left and who would care enough to come back after a span of time that long?

@d3adst1ck said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@scraping-static said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

If you ask me, there was just no way they could’ve done anything to the current servers to juice this game back to life.

What? There's been over a year of ideas posted here based on fixing what is wrong with the game.

So true and none of them were calling the game we have been playing adventure mode and adding this stylish new Adventure Admiral Hat as a new cosmetic:

@skulliah dijo en [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

I'd like to make a request for the next Developer Update Video: can we please have the same roadmap explanation like the one we got after launch? It was so clear and understandable for what's to come in Sea of Thieves. After this weekend I'm so confused and still have so many questions.

The problem is that The Arena update is one of the roadmap we got (the penultimate actually), I dont think that they'll post a new one before the first ends at the spring of 2019. But yea, some kind of update in their current roadmap for the early (and not so) stages of the next year could be amazing for us

@nathanuserectus said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@savagetwinky I am not looking deep into things..on top of it all..they are both PVE/PVP games..who both are making a BR mode. I am not sitting here going into the functions of that game..I am just saying on top of everything they were both PVE/PVP games where you had to fight npcs to survive and sometimes other players..it is the same thing..I am just saying just survive servers have been shut down due to no one playing them anymore due to the BR..the only hope for this game is that the majority of players here liked it for what it is and the arena mode will be a flop. Because when people decied to play that mode because all they want is PVP over a PVE/PVP game..then SOT will slowly die like every other game that decied to implament a BR mode.

If your not looking to get deep into anything then you can't really defend your point. Your just comparing a couple of surface level details and ignoring the important details... for instance... this is not a BR mode. Why hasn't WoW arena superseded wow? Why is that different then BR in fortnite?

@pikaaroon said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

I've been playing a bit of catch up with the Arena news. But I wanted to absorb and reflect on the announcement before voicing my thoughts.

My opinions are my own as a member of the community

Firstly, I'll get it out of the way that I'm in full support of a PVP orientated game mode.

When I watched the trailer and read the news the first thing that popped into my head wasn't fears of SoT going "Battle Royal" (which it isn't) it was thoughts of relief. Why? Because I honestly thought to myself:

"Oh awesome, now I can dive into ship combat and engage in PvP without hindering someone else's experience."

Although the player interaction and unknown nature of a player is what makes Sea of Thieves unique, I personally find it difficult to engage in and enjoy the PvP portion of the game. Because I know I'm forcing another player into that gameplay style who may not enjoy it, may not be good at it or it was possibly souring someone else's voyage and invested time... I don't like that...

Now you could say;
"But Pikaaroon, that's the point of the game and it's not "Sea of Friends"."

And in response to that I would say, sure, if that's how you view it. But I'm more the pirate that holds fire to see if I befriend another pirate before letting the cannons roar.

Having an Opt-in catered PvP game mode means that players like myself can do just that... "Opt-in" to a more hostile experience. A place where I know every other pirate I see is seeking the same experience and won't be upset by my actions. There is no second guessing and there is no regret.

---

That's how I looked at the Arena announcement.

I have questions, I would like clarification on aspects of it but I have faith in Rare to deliver and do what's right for the players and the experience.

This is not the end of the game.

It is not going to lessen the Adventure.

It will not make the game "too friendly".

It will not "split the community".

What it is doing is creating an option for those who want to jump straight into a PvP environment without having to spend a huge amount of time to get it.

This! Thank you!

That's all there is to it folks, nothing else to see here... case closed.

Now let's close this megathread down now and make a part three just for the soul purpose of making @SavageTwinky repeat their arguments for a third time to all of the people that just came back into this thread and repeated the same uninformed complaints.

@ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@madame-c said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@eratikstorm said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@madame-c said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@eratikstorm said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@d3adst1ck I brought this up in an early thread and @MikeTheMutinous replied. He did not explicitly say a pay shop was not coming, but he said "It also doesn't mean that we're going to start changing the core approach to mechanics. Any improvements and additions will be shared by both experiences."

I fully expect that there will be a new currency that is earn able in the Arena... or available for purchase, and anything that is purchased with that currency will be available in Sea of Thieves as well as Sea of Thieves: Arena.

I'm expecting a new currency as well. It appears to be teased in the trailer as a silver coin. Perhaps this will be the Sea Dogs currency similar to how the Bilge Rats deal in Doubloons. This new currency will probably be acquired in Arena mode to buy Sea Dog cosmetics.

Yes... but I fully expect it to also be the Premium pay currency. They have talked about adding micro-transactions since launch for whenever they launch the Pets expansion. If they add a 4th currency at that time, I think it will be too much... but only time will tell.

I'm really hoping that they avoid the Premium currency for micro-transactions, so that you can buy an item outright. Say, for example, a pet parrot has a value of 1.99 USD, I would rather just pay the 1.99 outright rather than having to buy a Premium currency pack (like having to spend a minimum of $5 to buy 250 Premium coins so that I can buy a pet that costs 100 Premium coins). I'm getting off-topic here now, haha.

It's not off-topic, (this is a feedback thread) and we don't know if Arena will introduce a brand new currency (silver coins), so it is perfectly fine to speculate and say you don't want it, me either.

They could also add a giant shark with a lazer beam that you can command when your in last place to help equalize your chance at winning... We shouldn't have that either.

my main concern is that it will be repetitive like the regular game mode. I mean, from customization, we only have 3 different weapons (Including the sword) for personal combat and for naval combat we only have 3 ships. Now, the naval combat is a bit more evolved than personal because of the cursed iron balls in the game, but other than that, the combat in this game doesn't have much going for it. I mean why aren't there different cannon types added to the arena? Cannons like triple or double barreled, and mortars? It kid of feels like a battle arena but without the ability to choose your specialty or class. There's no choice really, everyone goes in with the same weapons. I would like it if for personal combat, we had a loadout of 2 weapons and the sword locked in for all pirates as the third locked load out (Can't be switched). In addition weapons or weapon tools like a grappling hook and grenades should be added for exchange into those 2 weapon load outs to make the area fights more unique

@red0demon0 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

my main concern is that it will be repetitive like the regular game mode. I mean, from customization, we only have 3 different weapons (Including the sword) for personal combat and for naval combat we only have 3 ships. Now, the naval combat is a bit more evolved than personal because of the cursed iron balls in the game, but other than that, the combat in this game doesn't have much going for it. I mean why aren't there different cannon types added to the arena? Cannons like triple or double barreled, and mortars? It kid of feels like a battle arena but without the ability to choose your specialty or class. There's no choice really, everyone goes in with the same weapons. I would like it if for personal combat, we had a loadout of 2 weapons and the sword locked in for all pirates. In addition weapons or weapon tools like a grappling hook and grenades should be added for exchange into those 2 weapon load outs to make the area fights more unique

The fact that it is PvP will keep it fresh compared to the Adventure mode. This would be the perfect time to start adding more weapon and equipment options. With the arena giving us consistent PvP we will actually be able to begin understanding combat balance. Adding things like weapon mods(iron sights, new scopes, etc.), new cannon types/ammo(such as a blunderbuss cannon that is great for killing pirates, but can't dmg ships.), the things you mentioned(grappling hook would be amazing and a good way to replace the sword lunge bug), etc. Rare has been really lazy with combat additions/fixes/balance, but hopefully this mode will give them more incentive. Maybe if we get a good influx of players they will hire a good combat designer to iron things out?

@savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@ant-heuser-kush said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@madame-c said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@eratikstorm said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@madame-c said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@eratikstorm said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@d3adst1ck I brought this up in an early thread and @MikeTheMutinous replied. He did not explicitly say a pay shop was not coming, but he said "It also doesn't mean that we're going to start changing the core approach to mechanics. Any improvements and additions will be shared by both experiences."

I fully expect that there will be a new currency that is earn able in the Arena... or available for purchase, and anything that is purchased with that currency will be available in Sea of Thieves as well as Sea of Thieves: Arena.

I'm expecting a new currency as well. It appears to be teased in the trailer as a silver coin. Perhaps this will be the Sea Dogs currency similar to how the Bilge Rats deal in Doubloons. This new currency will probably be acquired in Arena mode to buy Sea Dog cosmetics.

Yes... but I fully expect it to also be the Premium pay currency. They have talked about adding micro-transactions since launch for whenever they launch the Pets expansion. If they add a 4th currency at that time, I think it will be too much... but only time will tell.

I'm really hoping that they avoid the Premium currency for micro-transactions, so that you can buy an item outright. Say, for example, a pet parrot has a value of 1.99 USD, I would rather just pay the 1.99 outright rather than having to buy a Premium currency pack (like having to spend a minimum of $5 to buy 250 Premium coins so that I can buy a pet that costs 100 Premium coins). I'm getting off-topic here now, haha.

It's not off-topic, (this is a feedback thread) and we don't know if Arena will introduce a brand new currency (silver coins), so it is perfectly fine to speculate and say you don't want it, me either.

They could also add a giant shark with a lazer beam that you can command when your in last place to help equalize your chance at winning... We shouldn't have that either.

Yes, we should have that! Except make it a free roaming AI threat not controlled by any crew. A megalodon with a giant lazer beam! Yes! This is important feedback I'm glad to be contributing.

@red0demon0 I've thought all along that the game should have Instance Weapons that you equip or can find during a session. Cursed cannonballs demonstrate the process. We just need a bigger variety of weapons to find in the setting too. If they test it in Arena mode, then port it over to the wider sea, great!

Grenades, axes, bucklers, thrown daggers, sabers, smoke bombs, mortars, etc. I'm in agreement that if this game is getting a dedicated PVP mode it needs more battle mechanics.

@pikaaroon

Brilliant! Thank you.

@solestone563412

Yo can this forum stop brigading all the people who want to actually play PVP in Sea of Thieves dude? [Mod edited] Guess what - there's a giant horde of players waiting to give Rare money for a PVP mode that you don't want. And they're not gonna quote "SPLIT" your community cause guess what - they were never a part of it.

The current sea of thieves community exists of 80% kids on open crew who are playing on Xbox game pass and have no clue what their doing. 20% are actually somewhere between 0 and 49 rep doing some boring, repetitive content, and lastly the other PL's like me are busy waiting for some actual content to hit this game so we have an excuse to show off the skins I grinded for.

I for one think that SoT can handle and deserves a legitimate PVP mode and to all you people who are moaning about how it can't because you get all philosophical about how we need to hold hands and share, post our allied colors and do Athena's voyages together on the same server -- Rare can place you in your little PVE safe space where you ferry a bunch of castaway chests back and forth on some empty waves and be boring just like all y'all do whenever I try to get a galleon going on this game in the past 4 months.

@solestone563412 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@savagetwinky If you want PvP then you probably SHOULD play other games. There are tons of far superior PvP games out there.

The whole concept of SoT from day one was to make a sandbox game the allowed players to play the game the way that they wished. Arena will add nothing that can't just be added to the game as is. If the incentive is there then players will show up. If it is fun, they will keep coming back. Creating a second mode is a cop-out and a money grab. Most likely it was forced on them by their masters at Microsoft.

If Rare stuck to their guns they could easily find a way to add Arena to the game. If I can come up with a half-a**e "quick fix" in 5 minutes I'm certain that all the smart chaps at Rare and all their resources could do a far better job before 2019.

Well arena adds to a sand box game that helps me find like minded people. There is no other PvP game quite like SoT...

The concept of SoT as far as I'm concerned was incoherent and failed. The PvE is hamstrung by PvP requirements of a fully equal player base, and the PvP is ruined because people don't want to PvP. The PvP was poorly implemented. There was really no point to doing it, there were no limits on how much loot you can extract/find in the environment... PvP was just a tyrannical move. There was no necessity to address a player unless they were hostile. And no reason to be hostile unless you felt like it. Alliances solidified how little utility there was in hostility. PvP doesn't work in sandboxes unless the goals are shared and creates a natural conflict based on need.. not a random desire for some excitement so you just kick everyone on the server until you find someone that kicks back.

Incentives do not fix the problem. There has to be an instrisic conflict of interest to create necessity out of pvp... otherwise... you run into the problem I've stated over and over again.. people just do something else that also has an incentive.

Yo back in the day remember when we didn't have alliances and so allying with someone meant you had to diplomatically sort out with a stranger crew who was going to turn in which crates and so when we had to PvP it was out of self-defense of our loot and preservation. So we had reasons to be suspicious of each other. But now PVP doesn't have any positive benefits - only net losses. Thus a PVP motivation is needed within the game. @SavageTwinky made this very good explanation. It would make sense to resurrect alot of inactive accounts that have accumulated since the PL grind presented itself as a pretty boring pursuit for - ohh... 99% of the playerbase?? Unfortunately I think the addition of a PvP mode we may see that most new accounts and players may never reach even 30/30/30 in their playtime of the game before ultimately sinking most of their time into PvP anyway - and leaving an increasingly dwindling portioning of players who truly exclusively play PvE or solo as the game's image shifts towards a controlling PvP playerbase. The PvE content would require its own team of representatives within Rare with an image to maintain, and then possibly a PvP content team - which in an extreme case - might oversea something such as a social pirate island? It would be an extreme diversion of resources. They would optimistically have enough for both developmental goals, and it may represent challenges within the resultant PvE minority playerbase.

I hope they fix the blue helm of death while they’re at it. Would hate to miss all the action going on in the Arena while I wait in a infinite black screen.

Can't say I am not exited for it! I will enjoy having a game mode that will force people into pvp because often boats are really spread out around the map!

@tedakin said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

Something I would adamantly suggest to the dev team is an improvement to the swordplay in time for Arena mode. The delay and unresponsiveness has been there since the alphas and it seems like just a few minor fixes would greatly improve the overall feel especially if it's going to be a big part of the Arena.

Its not unresponsive. It just punishes spamming tactics. Its simple but has a good skill ceiling.

@betsill said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

@red0demon0 said in [Mega Thread] The Arena - Part 2:

my main concern is that it will be repetitive like the regular game mode. I mean, from customization, we only have 3 different weapons (Including the sword) for personal combat and for naval combat we only have 3 ships. Now, the naval combat is a bit more evolved than personal because of the cursed iron balls in the game, but other than that, the combat in this game doesn't have much going for it. I mean why aren't there different cannon types added to the arena? Cannons like triple or double barreled, and mortars? It kid of feels like a battle arena but without the ability to choose your specialty or class. There's no choice really, everyone goes in with the same weapons. I would like it if for personal combat, we had a loadout of 2 weapons and the sword locked in for all pirates. In addition weapons or weapon tools like a grappling hook and grenades should be added for exchange into those 2 weapon load outs to make the area fights more unique

The fact that it is PvP will keep it fresh compared to the Adventure mode. This would be the perfect time to start adding more weapon and equipment options. With the arena giving us consistent PvP we will actually be able to begin understanding combat balance. Adding things like weapon mods(iron sights, new scopes, etc.), new cannon types/ammo(such as a blunderbuss cannon that is great for killing pirates, but can't dmg ships.), the things you mentioned(grappling hook would be amazing and a good way to replace the sword lunge bug), etc. Rare has been really lazy with combat additions/fixes/balance, but hopefully this mode will give them more incentive. Maybe if we get a good influx of players they will hire a good combat designer to iron things out?

I really don't mind the sword lunge bug, it kind of actually balances out the sword with the other weapons a bit, it gives it an incentive to use too. I do want a grappling hook though to swing off of the masts of ships. Can u imagine shooting urself off a cannon to grapple onto a ships mast and swing yourself around the ship till on board? Of course this weapon tool would work like a weapon, in which it would have a total of 5 uses till restock at ammo box. Or perhaps planning a pirate ambush by hanging on top of a cliff or rock edge with a grapple hook while the enemies are scanning below? Basically I want the grapple gun to work in a way that allows you to swing around or hang. While allowing you to pull or push away from the grappled location.

@red0demon0

I really don't mind the sword lunge bug, it kind of actually balances out the sword with the other weapons a bit, it gives it an incentive to use too.

Weapons should be balanced as weapons. Not because they provide you with utility that outclasses every other weapon by itself on top of being a good weapon. The sword is by far the most used weapon in the game and overshadows all the others because of it's numerous bugs and broken design.

I do want a grappling hook though to swing off of the masts of ships. Can u imagine shooting urself off a cannon to grapple onto a ships mast and swing yourself around the ship till on board? Of course this weapon tool would work like a weapon, in which it would have a total of 5 uses till restock at ammo box.

I don't see why it should have an ammo count. using it to swing distances, climb cliffs, board ships from places other than the latter would give it great utility to make it worth taking in certain circumstances.

Or perhaps planning a pirate ambush by hanging on top of a cliff or rock edge with a grapple hook while the enemies are scanning below? Basically I want the grapple gun to work in a way that allows you to swing around or hang. While allowing you to pull or push away from the grappled location.

If they get it to function well there could be a ton of possibilities.