PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.

@enf0rcer It's not giving up on the PvEvP idea just accepting that 1. not everyone is into that, and 2. the way it's implemented now needs alot of work.
Having a PvE server would be the easiest way to deal with the problem in the short term, but it's also just a good option to provide players in general. Not only would it give people who just want to sail in relative peace and PvE a much improved experience, but PvPers like myself would also benefit by making it so that only people who want to PvP are in the PvP servers. Heck even I would probably use PvE servers every now and then if I want to fight skull forts without the annoyance of other ships showing up every 2 min.
A PvP game mode would also be very cool and I would pref that personally. Having a TDM style mode 3v3 sloops, 2v2 galleons or something would be a ton of fun, and provide much more value for my time than what I currently have to do to find a fight in this game(I'm using "fight" very loosely in this context lol).

@enf0rcer It's a short term solution, but it is also a good option for the long term IMO. When You separate aspects of a game, it gives you the ability to better refine those aspects of the game. Again, It's not giving up on PvPvE since the option would still remain. Not only that, but it should(if devs do their job) help to vastly improve the PvPvE servers which should be the richest experience.
It's really not in clonflic with the core concept of the game again because you still have the option to play the game "properly". Tons of games with PvEvP have PvE only or offline capability such as all the souls games, Every MMo with PvP(that i know of), all mobas(that i know of), most survival games(like Ark), etc, etc. Greifing is something that every online game has and some people really don't wanna deal with it. Also, online players can break immersion(hard to feel like a pirate while some 12 year old is blaring "crawling in my skin" over his mic, and another 12 yr old is blowing himself up trying to sink your ship).

Don't get me wrong i would love for more PvP mode/options in this game like TDM or KoTH even CTF but i don't feel like need to have sperate s servers to do that. Instead ask yourself if there are other ways of accomplishing this.

There is a way actually. They could make a sort of PvP area of the map with a large port that you can sail to and sign up to battle which would merge you with players from the same or other servers for the match in an arena type area. You would still be connected to your server, but for the sake of not spending 5 hours waiting for any other crew to sail up(like in the HD and other BS "events") you would pull opponents from other servers as well.

@enf0rcer Now can these issue be resolved without relying on sepreat servers remains to be seen, but that is the foundamental Goal and Philospy.

It stand on it's own for some people and not for others. Even games like Dark souls let people play offline and the PvP from dark souls is far less intrusive compared to SoT and From Soft devs are leaps and bounds more competent designers that anyone at Rare. Maybe it can be balanced out but I really don't think so(Unless the main PvE experiences are in PvE dungeon/raid areas similar to the PvP arenas i mentioned earlier).

I agree with this which is why aslo support an inter server social hub. As to why the Devs has yet to fully implement this is beyond me.

I'm pretty sure that Rare bit off way more than they could chew with SoT and just isn't competent enough to make a game of the scale they promised us. Rare hasn't made a "real" game in 10 years, and most if not all the talent they used to have has long since left. Unless they start hiring people that can get this game on the right track i'm afraid this game might already be doomed.

This is brilliant! I'm a pacifist pirate, a pirate who doesn't do anything, this gives the PvP players more options, so there'll be a higher probability for us pacifists not to get slaughtered.
Additionally, it gives me incentive to try out that aspect of gameplay without thinking to myself "am I ruining someone else's day?
@eelporridge said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

I think that rather than a whole separate PvP mode per se, more incentive for PvP through world objectives would be better.
Now this might annoy the PvE crowd, but I saw a suggestion on these forums for a cursed chest which the person labelled as the "Reaper Chest", which would work much like the reaper flag marking the location on the map for everyone of current chest's whereabouts. Maybe this chest could hold cosmetic items as well as a large sum of coin, though give it a reward that makes players want to head towards this objective.
I think a couple of ideas like this would be cool.
Maybe another idea is a "reaper voyage" which could be found in the world, this would mark the location of the ship and/or players involved in the group on the map and have large coin rewards (maybe even say 5 dubloons) for completion too. The key to this would be that the voyage could be stolen by other players.

I think there are many good PvP ideas that could be explored, still made optional for people to pick up or start within the current world.

Giving PvP players more options gives PvE players less of a chance to be hunted down. The Reaper's Chests/Voyage idea sounds brilliant. Why would a pirate hunt me down when said pirate has a Reaper's item to pursue? I would love to see a fully detailed post just for this idea, I gotta up-vote it.

@eelporridge said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

I think that rather than a whole separate PvP mode per se, more incentive for PvP through world objectives would be better.
Now this might annoy the PvE crowd, but I saw a suggestion on these forums for a cursed chest which the person labelled as the "Reaper Chest", which would work much like the reaper flag marking the location on the map for everyone of current chest's whereabouts. Maybe this chest could hold cosmetic items as well as a large sum of coin, though give it a reward that makes players want to head towards this objective.
I think a couple of ideas like this would be cool.
Maybe another idea is a "reaper voyage" which could be found in the world, this would mark the location of the ship and/or players involved in the group on the map and have large coin rewards (maybe even say 5 dubloons) for completion too. The key to this would be that the voyage could be stolen by other players.

I think there are many good PvP ideas that could be explored, still made optional for people to pick up or start within the current world.

There is no real incentive system that will make the gameplay engaging for PvP. I already sail around and just gank people.

The 2 most problematic issues we PvPers run into are not enough people, and lots of new players on sloops. Many of us don't care about value... we just want that engaging gameplay. I've had entire crews ditch fort loot because it took to long to turn in. It doesn't matter what the McGuffin is, if your willing to defend it, we are willing to fight over it. Even planks are up for grabs.

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@betsill said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@enf0rcer It's not giving up on the PvEvP idea just accepting that 1. not everyone is into that, and 2. the way it's implemented now needs alot of work.
Having a PvE server would be the easiest way to deal with the problem in the short term, but it's also just a good option to provide players. Not only would it give people who just want to sail in relative peace and PvE a much improved experience, but PvPers like myself would also benefit by making it so that only people who want to PvP are in the PvP servers. Heck even I would probably use PvE servers every now and then if I want to fight skull forts without the annoyance of other ships showing up every 2 min.

That's just it. It is a short term solution that only deals with releving the syptoms of the issues and not adressing the problem itself. Allowing for a PvP server by it's nature would also be making a PvE server spliting the game and giving up on the PvEvP idea. In the TC The Devision there was a single player mode/area and the PvPvE mode area. This game is entirely PvEvP based, Could it benifit from a sepreat area? The answer is clearly yes but the fact is that it is in direct conflict with the Core Concept and Design Philosphy of sepreating the playerbase. Now you can disagree with the Philospy as it was poor implement and failed at answering and dealing with basic player interaction issues, but i personally think this type of Philosphy is ultimately benificial as it seeks to tear down artifical walls and allow all types of players and playstyles to co-exist in a single playground. This is still a relitively new concept espically in the AAA market and has yet to be fully relized. It still remains to be proven how practical it is however i remain optimistic as this kind of gameplay shows promise and hasn't completly failed.

Don't get me wrong i would love for more PvP mode/options in this game like TDM or KoTH even CTF but i don't feel like need to have sperate s servers to do that. Instead ask yourself if there are other ways of accomplishing this.

We haven't given up on the PvPvE idea at all. The PvE server would be ideal for new players where confrontation 100% a choice on the players. A PvP server tries to curate confrontations in the context of the same voyage gameplay. There is little difference in how you'd approach the game, except now all loot in the game can be contested, before, after, during someone picking it up.

An easy addition to this is if you don't have the voyage they are working on when you kill them, you should be able to copy it off the map table. So killing someone while they are digging up a chest is still a way to take their chest.

@stundorn said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

To me it's perfect like it is.
I dont want pure pve and i dont want pure pvp.
My Session allways have pvevp, allways!
At Forts, at Skeleton Ships, in the Devils Roar.
All the time i play i meet ships hunting.
Some come for us, most sink and die, few sink us if we are not aware of and dont take them serious.
Some days ago epic battle at a Fort.
We defended 3 Ships, 2 Sloops, 1 Brigg while doing the Fort.
A day later defended 1 Brigg and a sloop at the Skeleton ships. Not all sunk, but they stopped trying to kill us.

Yesterday Brigg sunk us in Devils Roar, while on an island.

All exciting fun.
I really dont see the issues people have other than that a lot of players expect more of this or that.
Asking for PvE only - no!
Asking for PvP only - no!
Asking for serious progression with a meaning and PL exclusive content - no!
Asking for more ways of PvPvE and more content for everybody? YES!!!

The reapers chest is maybe a good idea.

Btw i never feel ganked or terrorized, if done well i applaude others who sunk us.
Mostly on the ferry as we are all dead :-D
Oh and i dont feel i ruin someones playsession, it was enriched when we offered the Service to bring someone else loot to an Outpost :-)

Well I didn't ask for PvP only! All the PvP "mode" is the same game with limited features and shared voyages.

@nefnoj said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

This is brilliant! I'm a pacifist pirate, a pirate who doesn't do anything, this gives the PvP players more options, so there'll be a higher probability for us pacifists not to get slaughtered.
Additionally, it gives me incentive to try out that aspect of gameplay without thinking to myself "am I ruining someone else's day?
@eelporridge said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

I think that rather than a whole separate PvP mode per se, more incentive for PvP through world objectives would be better.
Now this might annoy the PvE crowd, but I saw a suggestion on these forums for a cursed chest which the person labelled as the "Reaper Chest", which would work much like the reaper flag marking the location on the map for everyone of current chest's whereabouts. Maybe this chest could hold cosmetic items as well as a large sum of coin, though give it a reward that makes players want to head towards this objective.
I think a couple of ideas like this would be cool.
Maybe another idea is a "reaper voyage" which could be found in the world, this would mark the location of the ship and/or players involved in the group on the map and have large coin rewards (maybe even say 5 dubloons) for completion too. The key to this would be that the voyage could be stolen by other players.

I think there are many good PvP ideas that could be explored, still made optional for people to pick up or start within the current world.

Giving PvP players more options gives PvE players less of a chance to be hunted down. The Reaper's Chests/Voyage idea sounds brilliant. Why would a pirate hunt me down when said pirate has a Reaper's item to pursue? I would love to see a fully detailed post just for this idea, I gotta up-vote it.

The biggest problem with this idea though is incentives wouldn't really help while the limited number of players means there is no guarantee you'll be utilizing PvP mechanics with other PvP players. The reaper flag turned out to be kind of useless...

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@eelporridge said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

I think that rather than a whole separate PvP mode per se, more incentive for PvP through world objectives would be better.
Now this might annoy the PvE crowd, but I saw a suggestion on these forums for a cursed chest which the person labelled as the "Reaper Chest", which would work much like the reaper flag marking the location on the map for everyone of current chest's whereabouts. Maybe this chest could hold cosmetic items as well as a large sum of coin, though give it a reward that makes players want to head towards this objective.
I think a couple of ideas like this would be cool.
Maybe another idea is a "reaper voyage" which could be found in the world, this would mark the location of the ship and/or players involved in the group on the map and have large coin rewards (maybe even say 5 dubloons) for completion too. The key to this would be that the voyage could be stolen by other players.

I think there are many good PvP ideas that could be explored, still made optional for people to pick up or start within the current world.

Yep there have certianly been tons of great PvP idea's for incentive. To bad every single one has got shut down mainly with the same lousy excuse that it would encourage toxic player behavour to the point where i don't even know what they mean by that anymore. You did post some great ideas and i hope one day somthing similar to your idea gets implemented. I personaly advocate for a Loot hoarding objective with a rep system tied directly to a crews ship and incentives the teift of Loot that activates a time limited survival mechnic with special visual effects for the ship as a reward.

What they mean is people would go on gank sprees to invoke w/e PvP mechanics there are.

Loot hoarding is a bad idea, its not fun and another time consuming mechanic in a game that horribly time consuming. Part of my idea would try to make playing in hour long sessions fun and filled with combat. You get that experience now if you put 12 hours in the game...

@goedecke-michel said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

For the same reasons as a PVE servers, PVP servers should of course be rejected.

All the same reasons can't be applied here. The only real valid reason to not want PvE servers is so the development insn't split between PvE and PvP. All this is attempting to do is take the same PvPvE game and make it easier to find people and more confrontational. A tighter experience around PvP where the sandbox can still be the main focus for PvP.

@savagetwinky You lost me at Limit Ship Types. The best part of the game is sinking a Galleon with a Sloop. No one is forced to play a Sloop. Keeping Sloops away from Galleons is the worst idea.

As for Alliances, hated them at first, now i don't care. It's just one more way to infiltrate and backstab and creates tons of scenarios and situations and options.

@trickrtreat01 said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky You lost me at Limit Ship Types. The best part of the game is sinking a Galleon with a Sloop. No one is forced to play a Sloop. Keeping Sloops away from Galleons is the worst idea.

As for Alliances, hated them at first, now i don't care. It's just one more way to infiltrate and backstab and creates tons of scenarios and situations and options.

So continue playing the normal mode. The entire point of this is to set up more even fights, more often. Your not going to be fighting trash gal crews if its ranked.

As a avid PvP galleon player, sloops are a cancer. You just keep stomping on them and they keep coming back.

@stundorn said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky sagte in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@trickrtreat01 said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky You lost me at Limit Ship Types. The best part of the game is sinking a Galleon with a Sloop. No one is forced to play a Sloop. Keeping Sloops away from Galleons is the worst idea.

As for Alliances, hated them at first, now i don't care. It's just one more way to infiltrate and backstab and creates tons of scenarios and situations and options.

So continue playing the normal mode. The entire point of this is to set up more even fights, more often. Your not going to be fighting trash gal crews if its ranked.

As a avid PvP galleon player, sloops are a cancer. You just keep stomping on them and they keep coming back.

i once thought about a matchmaking based on playerkills and accuracy.
Many playerkills matches with other players with many playerskills for example and very accurate pk's match with other accurate pk's.
I think this would be the best method to "save" some pacifists from the most dread pirates and the most dread pirates would more often meet other dread pirates.

Not really, pacifists could be decent PvPers and still get ganked. Or bad players could be hostile and constantly gank other bad players.

The problem is 2 groups of players wanting slightly different experiences from voyaging. I don't want to save pacifists at all, I want them to keep playing the same game they are playing now. I want to keep that sandbox intact for people that enjoy it.

But some of us just want to cut out all the mundane tasks and just have fun fighting over treasure, racing to islands to pick it up, being sneaky to take it out from under another crew. I can't do that if I'm spending 15+ minutes hunting down skeletons or X marks the spots, then sailing around alone for 45 minutes... only to find a sloop we just roll over in 3 seconds.

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@eelporridge said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

I think that rather than a whole separate PvP mode per se, more incentive for PvP through world objectives would be better.
Now this might annoy the PvE crowd, but I saw a suggestion on these forums for a cursed chest which the person labelled as the "Reaper Chest", which would work much like the reaper flag marking the location on the map for everyone of current chest's whereabouts. Maybe this chest could hold cosmetic items as well as a large sum of coin, though give it a reward that makes players want to head towards this objective.
I think a couple of ideas like this would be cool.
Maybe another idea is a "reaper voyage" which could be found in the world, this would mark the location of the ship and/or players involved in the group on the map and have large coin rewards (maybe even say 5 dubloons) for completion too. The key to this would be that the voyage could be stolen by other players.

I think there are many good PvP ideas that could be explored, still made optional for people to pick up or start within the current world.

Yep there have certianly been tons of great PvP idea's for incentive. To bad every single one has got shut down mainly with the same lousy excuse that it would encourage toxic player behavour to the point where i don't even know what they mean by that anymore. You did post some great ideas and i hope one day somthing similar to your idea gets implemented. I personaly advocate for a Loot hoarding objective with a rep system tied directly to a crews ship and incentives the teift of Loot that activates a time limited survival mechnic with special visual effects for the ship as a reward.

What they mean is people would go on gank sprees to invoke w/e PvP mechanics there are.

I understand what toxic player behavor is, but the way in which people use the term is the problem as it losses it's meaning and instead is an obetrary objection to anything PvP related.

It hasn't lost its meaning. The problem is without clear structure for PvP its indistinguishable. The distinction is intent, but intent really doesn't matter if the behavior is toxic or not. I want PvP... so I've resorted to looking for free planks on other people's ships and killing every sloop I come into contact with until they flee my server and worthy opponents show up.

Loot hoarding is a bad idea, its not fun and another time consuming mechanic in a game that horribly time consuming. Part of my idea would try to make playing in hour long sessions fun and filled with combat. You get that experience now if you put 12 hours in the game...

I'm sorry if you don't find idea of Loot hoarding fun, but many other games have done this successfuly and in a game where loot should matter it is a the ideal mechnic for this game. As Priates used to hoard loot and stash it away plus because loot is designed to be stolen it only makes sense to encourage ships to keep loot onboard so that it could be stolen.

Again I pointed out why its a bad mechanic. Not all other games have this type of time sink... and it doesn't solve the problems inherent with the time sink and lack of player involvement with each other. The problem isn't that people don't have loot, its that they aren't playing to PvP regardless how much loot they have on board. Someone literally offered an athena's and just asked to be in an alliance for the turn in when we attacked them.

I would also like to inform you that i have played very long session of SOT with my personal record of 22 hours straight on a single unsunk Gally. The fact that all the loot in this game only amounts to something you untimatly sell which amounts to a series of fecth quest is one the main crutiques of this game.

So? No one said you can't play long sessions. Fetch quests are fun if there is something regularly trying to stop you from fetching it. Its like saying mario is filled with running and jumping and calling... sure if the level was flat and not filled with enemies, then running and jumping is pointless.

The vast majority of fetch quests feel like that... empty... sail to an island, pick up some loot, sail to the next island, pick up some loot. Nothing exciting or interesting happening 90% of the time.

Finally your argument that this game is time consuming yet you want to encourage players to play longer session is circluar logic. Just wanted to point that out. But we both want the same thing which is to encourage more PvP interactions and make enjoyable experiance just in different ways.

I'm not encouraging players to play long sessions. You've just made up something in your head which I can't defend against because I don't know about it. I literally am stating your idea is bad because it expects players to slog out voyages and amass loot which requires time... lots of time.

Just imagine amassing loot for higher value in the context of alliances... you haven't changed anything. You just made a way for people who spend 2-3 + hours a day farming to increase the value of their loot... there still is no incentive to PvP.

@xcalypt0x said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky First, I appreciate the feedback and the time you took to think of and make this suggestion. I hope you continue to do so :)

Personally I don't agree. At this point it's not even Sea of Thieves anymore. I also don't want to see the regular servers dry up as people leave to play these PvP servers.

I'm all for enhancing the PvP experience but it needs to be done in a way that does not promote PvP over PvE or else we may see friendly encounters decrease dramatically. Both playstyles should be enhanced together so that every encounter on the sea is a potentially unique experience.

How is it not Sea of Thieves any more?

And how do you promote PvP without causing friendly encounters to decrease dramatically. That is actually the point of promoting PvP...

@xcalypt0x said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky

How is it not Sea of Thieves any more?

Because you're stripping out ship types, alliances, MA, meg, kraken, skeleton ships, forts, and portions of the map. That's barely a game at that point...

First off, by that measure its already barely a game because none of the mechanics in question really add any depth. How do any of these mechanics make sea of thieves sea of thieves? None of these things take up a significant portion of time for players. They are minor mechanics at best that rarely add to the adventure.

Ship types are because they aren't important to the experience and mostly because its detrimental with the imbalance especially if PvP is focused.

meg/kraken, as I pointed out mostly optional, not strong either way. They are random obstacles you may or may not want to partake in, and a lot of people just find them nuisances.

Forts and other events were proposed to redesign as player driven events, not outright removal. This wouldn't work with alliances if you could keep invoking skelly ships and share all the loot.

Alliances weren't in the normal game, they seem to be a band aid to help fix the overwhelming grind because thats all players can really focus 90% of their time on if they aren't fighting each other.

And how do you promote PvP without causing friendly encounters to decrease dramatically. That is actually the point of promoting PvP...

You don't. That's why I said enhance PvP, and then enhance PvE equally. Make PvP more appealing for people than it currently is but don't make it more appealing than PvE. Once the players are encouraged to do one thing over another in a sandbox it kills it.

You can't do that, your just arguing semantics. Enhancing or w/e will just make PvP more likely to happen... its all the same. The problem is the current framework for PvE its borderline griefing. Which is why I'm suggesting tweak the PvE design to make PvP are more core part of that experience. It enhances both PvE and PvP.

You'll never fix the PvP issues unless you make fighting over loot the point of the PvE... or... separate PvP entirely into a separate layer... so people that engage in it will get more PvP. There is no way to balance bounty systems or other "hoarding" mechanics with 6 crews on a server... you'll always have this disconnect from someone just casually doing some PvE and someone ruining their day hoarding gold and getting the biggest bounty they can achieve while they slaughter 5 other crews on the server.

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@savagetwinky said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@enf0rcer said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@betsill said in PvP "Mode" based around limiting loot, server wide objectives.:

@enf0rcer It's not giving up on the PvEvP idea just accepting that 1. not everyone is into that, and 2. the way it's implemented now needs alot of work.
Having a PvE server would be the easiest way to deal with the problem in the short term, but it's also just a good option to provide players. Not only would it give people who just want to sail in relative peace and PvE a much improved experience, but PvPers like myself would also benefit by making it so that only people who want to PvP are in the PvP servers. Heck even I would probably use PvE servers every now and then if I want to fight skull forts without the annoyance of other ships showing up every 2 min.

That's just it. It is a short term solution that only deals with releving the syptoms of the issues and not adressing the problem itself. Allowing for a PvP server by it's nature would also be making a PvE server spliting the game and giving up on the PvEvP idea. In the TC The Devision there was a single player mode/area and the PvPvE mode area. This game is entirely PvEvP based, Could it benifit from a sepreat area? The answer is clearly yes but the fact is that it is in direct conflict with the Core Concept and Design Philosphy of sepreating the playerbase. Now you can disagree with the Philospy as it was poor implement and failed at answering and dealing with basic player interaction issues, but i personally think this type of Philosphy is ultimately benificial as it seeks to tear down artifical walls and allow all types of players and playstyles to co-exist in a single playground. This is still a relitively new concept espically in the AAA market and has yet to be fully relized. It still remains to be proven how practical it is however i remain optimistic as this kind of gameplay shows promise and hasn't completly failed.

Don't get me wrong i would love for more PvP mode/options in this game like TDM or KoTH even CTF but i don't feel like need to have sperate s servers to do that. Instead ask yourself if there are other ways of accomplishing this.

We haven't given up on the PvPvE idea at all. The PvE server would be ideal for new players where confrontation 100% a choice on the players. A PvP server tries to curate confrontations in the context of the same voyage gameplay. There is little difference in how you'd approach the game, except now all loot in the game can be contested, before, after, during someone picking it up.

An easy addition to this is if you don't have the voyage they are working on when you kill them, you should be able to copy it off the map table. So killing someone while they are digging up a chest is still a way to take their chest.

This is a good idea but i fail to see why a seprate server is necceary to facilitate adding this function also in a PvEvP eviroment PvP isn't supposed to be optional just like PvE both elements exist simultanously. It's how you choose to deal with situations is a choice. Just like in a multiplayer area you can't opt out of players figthing you, In the same way in a single player or co-op campaign you can't opt out of being attack by the A.I. The problem is that the PvE and PvP in this game are not structured to co'exist cause they both focus on 2 different goals with different styles of play instead of sharing a common Goal and META gamplay. New player need to learn how to defend themselves and learn the tactics but can only do so by etheir the game dirictly teaching them or being exposed to high level and skilled players. Sepreate server will deprive them of this.

Its just a separate mode. Servers seem to be on demand and there is no reason options shouldn't be given to slightly different play styles. So long as most of the PvPvE game stays intact we should be able to compromise.