Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@jedimasterfraze said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@bambam-bm said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

Everything you said is already possible on a sloop with 1-2 people. The only difference between a 2 man sloop and a 4 man sloop is instead of fighting 4v2 you might have to take on a 4v4.

If the thought of a even 4v4 fight worries you so much, maybe avoid PvP all together. Literally the only people against 4 man sloops are people who play galleons and have grown used to picking off easy 4v2 and 4v1 sloops. Usually the same ones who cry hacks when a good solo sloop takes them down.

Also your math sucks. You have 200 less cannonballs on a sloop.

As someone who sloops the majority of the time. You are just so wrong. In so many ways. First. You tell them their math sucks because the sloop has 200 less cannonballs... bro. Do you even math? Galleon has 3 barrels. Sloop has 2. Thats ONE HUNDRED less cannonballs. Not 200.

The sloop is balanced for 2 people. I am not going to reiterate what everyone has argued in all the posts because it's the same arguments about how it would be imbalanced. But you guys in favor of a 4man sloop like to disagree with "nah bro. 4v4 yo. Fun yo, I want fun. Screw balance" I summarized the majority of the arguments.

4 man sloops would be the end of galleons.

Edit: phone autocorrected some spelling

L**O I forgot the sloop has 2 barrels.

My other points still stand. If you don't like the idea of a 4 man sloop, you probably are just upset you can't sink sloops in a galleon easily anymore. It's not going to be the "end of galleons" 4 man galleons will always be the meta. They're much harder to sink then sloops. They can hold more cannonballs, you can hide loot better, they have a faster top speed and don't need to rely on shallow waters and rocks to escape battles, etc.

Even with 4 people on a sloop, the galleon still has an advantage. But personally I don't like sailing galleons. I like the sloops more. Id like to play with friends, but usually I solo or duo just because sloops are more enjoyable for me. I like weaving between rocks, sailing close to the shore so I don't have to swim, and I love PvP more on a sloop because galleons like to attack sloops thinking it's easy only to cry hacks when they sink. Plus I like interacting with people, and sloops avoid galleons like the plague which is no fun.

Plenty of reasons why people want 4 man sloops, none of which are even about competitive play. This isn't an esports game, it's a casual adventure game. Let us adventure on whatever ship we want. Galleons can sail solo now, so why not let sloops sail with 4?

You COMPLETELY ignored all the points I made. The sloop is easier to control than the Galleon by far, because two people can easily steer and use the sails, while the other two people can attack the Galleon. This gives a huge advantage to the Sloop while the Galleon requires all 4 players to steer and use the sails!

Oh, and a casual game? It's called SEA OF THIEVES because you SINK SHIPS and STEAL LOOT. The Sloop's design is small and nimble because it is designed for a small, sneaky crew that is capable of accessing more areas than a Galleon. The Galleon is the big, attack ship, which is designed for combat and hence has more players. Adding a larger amount of players to a sloop makes PvP MUCH harder for a Galleon because the sloop can evade attacks too easily, is easier to control with less people, has a faster anchor, turns faster, and supplies can be stored and accessed on the boat faster since it is smaller and there is less distance to cover when running upstairs and downstairs! Being able to hide stuff better on the galleon is a stupid argument when the sloop can easily sink it with the extra players.

Stop your pathetic whining for a 4 man sloop, you have no argument apart from "I want it", and it will clearly be way too overpowered and gamebreaking unless the Galleon's crew size is also doubled!

Galleons have 4 cannons on each side... Sloops have 1. If all 4 players (or even 2) are shooting said sloop at the same time consistently it will still sink even with 2 people patching it. The sloop will only be able to fire back 1 cannonball for every 4 shot at it (that is provided the one shooting from the sloop isn't shot off by one of the Cannon balls)

If you come back and say something along the lines of there will be someone also to bail water while the other 2 are patching that would create 1 of 2 situations...
1: No one is steering the sloop and it will possibly crash because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other shoots (providing an advantage to the galleon.)
2: No one will be able to shoot back because they are to B**. either steering, or bailing water because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other steering. (providing an advantage to the galleon.)

The galleon has 3 levels. Unless you hit it below water, it barely leaks... The majority of the time I'm on a galleon I don't even concern myself with holes on the first floor until after the encounter. Don't forget, the galleon takes longer to fill with water and start to actually sink, the sloop fills up drastically faster which would mean it should only take 1 person on the galleon to effectively patch it. This would make the above situations not happen on a galleon, therfore still giving the galleon the advantage.

Your kind of ignoring the ability of the galleon to consistently attack a sloop, or have 2-4 people on the cannons when the sloop is in firing range. The sloop can't have as many holes as a galleon on one side so even if you were to get a hefty barrage off the team has to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots...

Exactly, the galleon can fire 4 cannons for every 1 fired at it.

Exactly, the sloop can only have so many holes in it at 1 time. The majority of those holes are located under the water line. By re-opening them up, it creates a constant waterfall, sinking the sloop because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon. Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up.

Exactly, the sloop needs to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots, as I said, holes on the first floor of the galleon barely leak... When the sloop hits there it's s a waste of a Cannon ball unless the galleon's crew is not patching the lower level (which would not be the ships fault, it would be the crews)... That's an entire floor of holes that can essentially be absorbed, as opposed to the sloops smallest section that is above the water line. The sloop can get hit what, 2 spots on the side that it wont create a constant stream of water?

Sure, the sloop can get out of the Cannon range of the galleon, but simply raise the anchor and cut the wheel and lower the anchor. You will be able to fire back, 3 Cannon balls at a time as opposed to their 1 at a time (while one crew mate patches the boat). This will force the sloop to move, or sink.

Oh, you clearly fight terrible sloop players... good sloop players don't stop moving.. or stay out of range of the cannons while one person harasses/drops anchor.

That's just those particular people's playstyle... I have had galleon people do the same to me while on sloop parked at an island.

Also, you do realize that by saying a good sloop player doesn't stop moving it contradicts your above statement where you try to say the sloop has an advantage because it can take less holes per side? Essentially, unless it is coming straight at you (where you would be able to fire back, giving you the advantage, or you would be equally disadvantaged because neither could fire) you will be able to hit both sides.

Or, you could simply do what I originally mentioned and move the galleon. There is nothing requiring either ship to anchor down during a battle... Don't want to encounter the sloop? Go full speed away with the wind (you will win the race). Only way for the sloop to get away would be against the wind, which is a very minor increase of speed.

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@jedimasterfraze said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@bambam-bm said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

Everything you said is already possible on a sloop with 1-2 people. The only difference between a 2 man sloop and a 4 man sloop is instead of fighting 4v2 you might have to take on a 4v4.

If the thought of a even 4v4 fight worries you so much, maybe avoid PvP all together. Literally the only people against 4 man sloops are people who play galleons and have grown used to picking off easy 4v2 and 4v1 sloops. Usually the same ones who cry hacks when a good solo sloop takes them down.

Also your math sucks. You have 200 less cannonballs on a sloop.

As someone who sloops the majority of the time. You are just so wrong. In so many ways. First. You tell them their math sucks because the sloop has 200 less cannonballs... bro. Do you even math? Galleon has 3 barrels. Sloop has 2. Thats ONE HUNDRED less cannonballs. Not 200.

The sloop is balanced for 2 people. I am not going to reiterate what everyone has argued in all the posts because it's the same arguments about how it would be imbalanced. But you guys in favor of a 4man sloop like to disagree with "nah bro. 4v4 yo. Fun yo, I want fun. Screw balance" I summarized the majority of the arguments.

4 man sloops would be the end of galleons.

Edit: phone autocorrected some spelling

L**O I forgot the sloop has 2 barrels.

My other points still stand. If you don't like the idea of a 4 man sloop, you probably are just upset you can't sink sloops in a galleon easily anymore. It's not going to be the "end of galleons" 4 man galleons will always be the meta. They're much harder to sink then sloops. They can hold more cannonballs, you can hide loot better, they have a faster top speed and don't need to rely on shallow waters and rocks to escape battles, etc.

Even with 4 people on a sloop, the galleon still has an advantage. But personally I don't like sailing galleons. I like the sloops more. Id like to play with friends, but usually I solo or duo just because sloops are more enjoyable for me. I like weaving between rocks, sailing close to the shore so I don't have to swim, and I love PvP more on a sloop because galleons like to attack sloops thinking it's easy only to cry hacks when they sink. Plus I like interacting with people, and sloops avoid galleons like the plague which is no fun.

Plenty of reasons why people want 4 man sloops, none of which are even about competitive play. This isn't an esports game, it's a casual adventure game. Let us adventure on whatever ship we want. Galleons can sail solo now, so why not let sloops sail with 4?

You COMPLETELY ignored all the points I made. The sloop is easier to control than the Galleon by far, because two people can easily steer and use the sails, while the other two people can attack the Galleon. This gives a huge advantage to the Sloop while the Galleon requires all 4 players to steer and use the sails!

Oh, and a casual game? It's called SEA OF THIEVES because you SINK SHIPS and STEAL LOOT. The Sloop's design is small and nimble because it is designed for a small, sneaky crew that is capable of accessing more areas than a Galleon. The Galleon is the big, attack ship, which is designed for combat and hence has more players. Adding a larger amount of players to a sloop makes PvP MUCH harder for a Galleon because the sloop can evade attacks too easily, is easier to control with less people, has a faster anchor, turns faster, and supplies can be stored and accessed on the boat faster since it is smaller and there is less distance to cover when running upstairs and downstairs! Being able to hide stuff better on the galleon is a stupid argument when the sloop can easily sink it with the extra players.

Stop your pathetic whining for a 4 man sloop, you have no argument apart from "I want it", and it will clearly be way too overpowered and gamebreaking unless the Galleon's crew size is also doubled!

Galleons have 4 cannons on each side... Sloops have 1. If all 4 players (or even 2) are shooting said sloop at the same time consistently it will still sink even with 2 people patching it. The sloop will only be able to fire back 1 cannonball for every 4 shot at it (that is provided the one shooting from the sloop isn't shot off by one of the Cannon balls)

If you come back and say something along the lines of there will be someone also to bail water while the other 2 are patching that would create 1 of 2 situations...
1: No one is steering the sloop and it will possibly crash because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other shoots (providing an advantage to the galleon.)
2: No one will be able to shoot back because they are to B**. either steering, or bailing water because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other steering. (providing an advantage to the galleon.)

The galleon has 3 levels. Unless you hit it below water, it barely leaks... The majority of the time I'm on a galleon I don't even concern myself with holes on the first floor until after the encounter. Don't forget, the galleon takes longer to fill with water and start to actually sink, the sloop fills up drastically faster which would mean it should only take 1 person on the galleon to effectively patch it. This would make the above situations not happen on a galleon, therfore still giving the galleon the advantage.

Your kind of ignoring the ability of the galleon to consistently attack a sloop, or have 2-4 people on the cannons when the sloop is in firing range. The sloop can't have as many holes as a galleon on one side so even if you were to get a hefty barrage off the team has to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots...

Exactly, the galleon can fire 4 cannons for every 1 fired at it.

Again ignoring whether or not the galleon will be able to.. your keep stopping at its equipped to do. So your still one step short on this thought process...

The galleon will be UNABLE to utilize its equipment if the people are busy fighting off boarders/patching/bailing/managing sails, anchor or wheel... or not pointed in the right direction.

It's not just it has 4 cannons... it's how easy it is to utilize those cannons.

Exactly, the sloop can only have so many holes in it at 1 time. The majority of those holes are located under the water line. By re-opening them up, it creates a constant waterfall, sinking the sloop because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon. Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up.

The sloop doesn't sink that fast, an entire side of holes is salvageable and.. well the galleon now can't do any more damage negating the 4 cannons usefulness

Exactly, the sloop needs to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots, as I said, holes on the first floor of the galleon barely leak... When the sloop hits there it's s a waste of a Cannon ball unless the galleon's crew is not patching the lower level (which would not be the ships fault, it would be the crews)... That's an entire floor of holes that can essentially be absorbed, as opposed to the sloops smallest section that is above the water line. The sloop can get hit what, 2 spots on the side that it wont create a constant stream of water?

No it doesn't, one person can easily keep track of where he has hit and it's lower so hitting lower is easier.. he can swing around the front out of firing range and put enough holes in it to sink the galleon... not quickly.. but that's where the usually second person comes into play.. he protects the holes, it's easy to slip on if people are scrambling to patch/repair and now when the sloop is in cannon range the galleon is not going to have 4 people ready to fire.

That's just those particular people's playstyle... I have had galleon people do the same to me while on sloop parked at an island.

Right a bad playstyle for taking on a galleon... thus you ignore what it's like going up against people that are in actual threat.

Or, you could simply do what I originally mentioned and move the galleon. There is nothing requiring either ship to anchor down during a battle... Don't want to encounter the sloop? Go full speed away with the wind (you will win the race). Only way for the sloop to get away would be against the wind, which is a very minor increase of speed.

Great so the more powerful ship with more man power should be forced to run away? Again... we are talking about PvP balance. Player choice has to be confined to a working game.

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@jedimasterfraze said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@bambam-bm said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@iduskk said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

Everything you said is already possible on a sloop with 1-2 people. The only difference between a 2 man sloop and a 4 man sloop is instead of fighting 4v2 you might have to take on a 4v4.

If the thought of a even 4v4 fight worries you so much, maybe avoid PvP all together. Literally the only people against 4 man sloops are people who play galleons and have grown used to picking off easy 4v2 and 4v1 sloops. Usually the same ones who cry hacks when a good solo sloop takes them down.

Also your math sucks. You have 200 less cannonballs on a sloop.

As someone who sloops the majority of the time. You are just so wrong. In so many ways. First. You tell them their math sucks because the sloop has 200 less cannonballs... bro. Do you even math? Galleon has 3 barrels. Sloop has 2. Thats ONE HUNDRED less cannonballs. Not 200.

The sloop is balanced for 2 people. I am not going to reiterate what everyone has argued in all the posts because it's the same arguments about how it would be imbalanced. But you guys in favor of a 4man sloop like to disagree with "nah bro. 4v4 yo. Fun yo, I want fun. Screw balance" I summarized the majority of the arguments.

4 man sloops would be the end of galleons.

Edit: phone autocorrected some spelling

L**O I forgot the sloop has 2 barrels.

My other points still stand. If you don't like the idea of a 4 man sloop, you probably are just upset you can't sink sloops in a galleon easily anymore. It's not going to be the "end of galleons" 4 man galleons will always be the meta. They're much harder to sink then sloops. They can hold more cannonballs, you can hide loot better, they have a faster top speed and don't need to rely on shallow waters and rocks to escape battles, etc.

Even with 4 people on a sloop, the galleon still has an advantage. But personally I don't like sailing galleons. I like the sloops more. Id like to play with friends, but usually I solo or duo just because sloops are more enjoyable for me. I like weaving between rocks, sailing close to the shore so I don't have to swim, and I love PvP more on a sloop because galleons like to attack sloops thinking it's easy only to cry hacks when they sink. Plus I like interacting with people, and sloops avoid galleons like the plague which is no fun.

Plenty of reasons why people want 4 man sloops, none of which are even about competitive play. This isn't an esports game, it's a casual adventure game. Let us adventure on whatever ship we want. Galleons can sail solo now, so why not let sloops sail with 4?

You COMPLETELY ignored all the points I made. The sloop is easier to control than the Galleon by far, because two people can easily steer and use the sails, while the other two people can attack the Galleon. This gives a huge advantage to the Sloop while the Galleon requires all 4 players to steer and use the sails!

Oh, and a casual game? It's called SEA OF THIEVES because you SINK SHIPS and STEAL LOOT. The Sloop's design is small and nimble because it is designed for a small, sneaky crew that is capable of accessing more areas than a Galleon. The Galleon is the big, attack ship, which is designed for combat and hence has more players. Adding a larger amount of players to a sloop makes PvP MUCH harder for a Galleon because the sloop can evade attacks too easily, is easier to control with less people, has a faster anchor, turns faster, and supplies can be stored and accessed on the boat faster since it is smaller and there is less distance to cover when running upstairs and downstairs! Being able to hide stuff better on the galleon is a stupid argument when the sloop can easily sink it with the extra players.

Stop your pathetic whining for a 4 man sloop, you have no argument apart from "I want it", and it will clearly be way too overpowered and gamebreaking unless the Galleon's crew size is also doubled!

Galleons have 4 cannons on each side... Sloops have 1. If all 4 players (or even 2) are shooting said sloop at the same time consistently it will still sink even with 2 people patching it. The sloop will only be able to fire back 1 cannonball for every 4 shot at it (that is provided the one shooting from the sloop isn't shot off by one of the Cannon balls)

If you come back and say something along the lines of there will be someone also to bail water while the other 2 are patching that would create 1 of 2 situations...
1: No one is steering the sloop and it will possibly crash because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other shoots (providing an advantage to the galleon.)
2: No one will be able to shoot back because they are to B**. either steering, or bailing water because 2 will be patching and 1 will be bailing, while the other steering. (providing an advantage to the galleon.)

The galleon has 3 levels. Unless you hit it below water, it barely leaks... The majority of the time I'm on a galleon I don't even concern myself with holes on the first floor until after the encounter. Don't forget, the galleon takes longer to fill with water and start to actually sink, the sloop fills up drastically faster which would mean it should only take 1 person on the galleon to effectively patch it. This would make the above situations not happen on a galleon, therfore still giving the galleon the advantage.

Your kind of ignoring the ability of the galleon to consistently attack a sloop, or have 2-4 people on the cannons when the sloop is in firing range. The sloop can't have as many holes as a galleon on one side so even if you were to get a hefty barrage off the team has to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots...

Exactly, the galleon can fire 4 cannons for every 1 fired at it.

Again ignoring whether or not the galleon will be able to.. your keep stopping at its equipped to do. So your still one step short on this thought process...

So it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therfore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

The galleon will be UNABLE to utilize its equipment if the people are busy fighting off boarders/patching/bailing/managing sails, anchor or wheel... or not pointed in the right direction.

Like I said in my original post. Also provided explanations. A sloop will be UNABLE to utilize its equipment if the people are busy fighting off boarders/patching/bailing/managing sails, anchor or wheel... or not pointed in the right direction.

It's not just it has 4 cannons... it's how easy it is to utilize those cannons.

Like I said, it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therfore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

Exactly, the sloop can only have so many holes in it at 1 time. The majority of those holes are located under the water line. By re-opening them up, it creates a constant waterfall, sinking the sloop because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon. Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up.

The sloop doesn't sink that fast, an entire side of holes is salvageable and.. well the galleon now can't do any more damage negating the 4 cannons usefulness

It still sinks a lot faster than the galleon because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon. Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up. Which will present more potential to have a connom ball wasted on the galleon. Which is a bid deal considering that the galleon has more cannonballs to start with, and more storage for them. As for the cannons no longer being useful, I know as a fact that when you are patching a hole, and that area of the sloop gets hit, you not get pushed back and need to start the patching process all over again, but you even take damage from the impact. It is essentially more beneficial to hit the same hole more than once, because not only does it have the same effect, but it causes the player to take damage and waste time eating a banana, because that galleon has more people, and wouldn't be as impacted if someone were to leave and board the sloop.

Exactly, the sloop needs to be really good at equally distributing cannon shots, as I said, holes on the first floor of the galleon barely leak... When the sloop hits there it's s a waste of a Cannon ball unless the galleon's crew is not patching the lower level (which would not be the ships fault, it would be the crews)... That's an entire floor of holes that can essentially be absorbed, as opposed to the sloops smallest section that is above the water line. The sloop can get hit what, 2 spots on the side that it wont create a constant stream of water?

No it doesn't, one person can easily keep track of where he has hit and it's lower so hitting lower is easier.. he can swing around the front out of firing range and put enough holes in it to sink the galleon... not quickly.. but that's where the usually second person comes into play.. he protects the holes, it's easy to slip on if people are scrambling to patch/repair and now when the sloop is in cannon range the galleon is not going to have 4 people ready to fire.

If you hit a sloop on the top, or bottom, provided it isn't hit on the smallest part of the ship, will put a hole below water. The galleon doesn't even need to aim below water. But the sloop does. Also, it's ok to have 1 of the 2 crewmates allowed on the cannons leaving the sloop with no one steering, but you act like having someone do that on a ship with potentially 4 people is not balanced?

That's just those particular people's playstyle... I have had galleon people do the same to me while on sloop parked at an island.

Right a bad playstyle for taking on a galleon... thus you ignore what it's like going up against people that are in actual threat.

Right a bad playstyle for taking on any ship. If someone from the galleon boards the sloop they will be able to potentially take out the crew, while they still have others on the galleon to continue to shoot cannons. As the game currently is, no matter what the galleon will have more players. If they take that approach they can send 1 person over and worst case scenario be outnumbered by 1 on the sloop, while still having a minimum of 2 left on the galleon. If a sloop sends a crewmate over to the galleon they have 1 person left. To steer, maintain the anchor, and deal with patching, because like I mentioned, almost every Cannon ball will cause a big leak.

Or, you could simply do what I originally mentioned and move the galleon. There is nothing requiring either ship to anchor down during a battle... Don't want to encounter the sloop? Go full speed away with the wind (you will win the race). Only way for the sloop to get away would be against the wind, which is a very minor increase of speed.

Great so the more powerful ship with more man power should be forced to run away? Again... we are talking about PvP balance. Player choice has to be confined to a working game.

Balance? Exactly. Balance. You just said the more powerful ship, with more man power should be able to force the sloop to run away then. That's not balance.

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

So it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therefore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

Well yes, a crew of 2 on a sloop vs a crew of 4 will be more equal... but we are talking about what happens if the sloop now has 2 people that... don't have much to do on board and can freely try to board and attack the other ship directly.

Like I said in my original post. Also provided explanations. A sloop will be UNABLE to utilize its equipment if the people are busy fighting off boarders/patching/bailing/managing sails, anchor or wheel... or not pointed in the right direction.

And then you add 2 people to the sloop and they'll be able to use the cannon at will... while still having a free person that will be able to attempt to board at will.

Like I said, it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therefore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

Really not much of an advantage... unless the sloop is stopped or they are all pointed in the perfect position to easily lead the moving sloop.

It still sinks a lot faster than the galleon because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon.

but its not fast enough that if you light up a sloop and they have 2 people bailing while 1 person is steering, and one still on the cannon... that it will sink reliably... or that you'll be able to just sit there and have 4 people light it up because the one user that is always free to use the cannon.

Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up. Which will present more potential to have a common ball wasted on the galleon. Which is a bid deal considering that the galleon has more cannonballs to start with, and more storage for them. As for the cannons no longer being used, I know as a fact that when you are patching a hole, and that area of the sloop gets hit,

Good players just bail till they are in a safe position to patch. This would be stupidly easy with 4 players.. they don't even have to move to bail effectively on a sloop.

If you hit a sloop on the top, or bottom, provided it isn't hit on the smallest part of the ship, will put a hole below water. The galleon doesn't even need to aim below water. But the sloop does. Also, it's ok to have 1 of the 2 crewmates allowed on the cannons leaving the sloop with no one steering, but you act like having someone do that on a ship with potentially 4 people is not balanced?

A few holes don't sink that fast though. Yah its easy to put a hole that will cause a leak... it's also not hard to do to a gallon...

Right a bad playstyle for taking on any ship. If someone from the galleon boards the sloop they will be able to potentially take out the crew, while they still have others on the galleon to continue to shoot cannons. As the game currently is, no matter what the galleon will have more players. If they take that approach they can send 1 person over and worst case scenario be outnumbered by 1 on the sloop, while still having a minimum of 2 left on the galleon. If a sloop sends a crewmate over to the galleon they have 1 person left. To steer, maintain the anchor, and deal with patching, because like I mentioned, almost every Cannon ball will cause a big leak.

It's still easier to baord a galleon.. sloops can easily move out of the way of swimmers.. play smart and avoid staying in cannon range long all while

Balance? Exactly. Balance. You just said the more powerful ship, with more man power should be able to force the sloop to run away then. That's not balance.

No I didn't. I said a sloop shouldn't be able to force a galleon to run away. That doesn't mean the opposite should be true. The game is currently balanced because the sloop with the less manpower and firepower can't take a galleon on directly and has to play it smart... it comes down to someone making a mistake which means its pretty balanced.

Like I mentioned earlier.. if they make this change.. I just won't use galleons any more. Being able to utilize 4 cannons at any given time depends on those players putting up a terrible fight. Almost all other situations I've been in result in much longer drawn out fights with sail management/boarding tactics/ maneuvering around nearby islands etc.

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

So it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therefore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

Well yes, a crew of 2 on a sloop vs a crew of 4 will be more equal... but we are talking about what happens if the sloop now has 2 people that... don't have much to do on board and can freely try to board and attack the other ship directly.

2vs4 is equal? Lol
Also, exactly what does the galleon have to do that the sloop doesn't? They both need to steer, they both need to board up the ship, they both need to shoot, they both need to raise and or lower the anchor.
Also, it wouldn't put the sloop at a disadvantage having 1 person to steer, patch, and shoot? Really?

Like I said in my original post. Also provided explanations. A sloop will be UNABLE to utilize its equipment if the people are busy fighting off boarders/patching/bailing/managing sails, anchor or wheel... or not pointed in the right direction.

And then you add 2 people to the sloop and they'll be able to use the cannon at will... while still having a free person that will be able to attempt to board at will.

Just like the galleon already has? So adding 2 more would make balance then correct? Put 2 things on one side of a scale, and 4 of the same thing on the other side... Guarantee it will slant. Not balance out.

Like I said, it's harder for a crew of 3-4 to utilize cannons while being shot at, but not for a ship that is limited to a crew of 2 to utilize their 1 Cannon? If nothing else the galleon could have those 4 cannons loaded and ready, and have 1 person go down firing each one, therefore eliminating the reload time, also giving an advantage.

Really not much of an advantage... unless the sloop is stopped or they are all pointed in the perfect position to easily lead the moving sloop.

The galleon has 4 cannons lined up, each Cannon has the same radius that it can shoot. The galleon has a wider range that it can fire. If the galleon is moving it will be able to cover more of the sea than the sloop. You said yourself someone on a sloop isn't going to sit around... Which would mean it would be going in and out of range. When it is in motion the 1 person who isn't steering will be to busy patching holes. No one to even shoot back in that case. If you say that no one needs to be steering, the same can be said for the galleon, set it towards open sea n worry about the other stuff. But you won't have that problem with the galleon because you still have the extra people to be able to steer.

It still sinks a lot faster than the galleon because like I originally said, 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a sloop drastically faster than 1 Cannon ball hole below water will sink a galleon.

but its not fast enough that if you light up a sloop and they have 2 people bailing while 1 person is steering, and one still on the cannon... that it will sink reliably... or that you'll be able to just sit there and have 4 people light it up because the one user that is always free to use the cannon.

But it is still faster than the galleon is, but the difference is that that galleon already can use the strategy that you just presented. A sloop cannot.

Also, the galleon has 2 levels that can take damage, 1 of which is pretty much irrelevant until the bottom fills up. Which will present more potential to have a common ball wasted on the galleon. Which is a bid deal considering that the galleon has more cannonballs to start with, and more storage for them. As for the cannons no longer being used, I know as a fact that when you are patching a hole, and that area of the sloop gets hit,

Good players just bail till they are in a safe position to patch. This would be stupidly easy with 4 players.. they don't even have to move to bail effectively on a sloop.

So just bail water, don't patch the ship to prevent the water from coming in? Giving the galleon time to continue to shoot you, adding more holes, so that it requires both the entire sloop crew to repair it? Below you say, "No I didn't. I said a sloop shouldn't be able to force a galleon to run away. That doesn't mean the opposite should be true." but here you litterally say "good" players run away n just continously bail the water opening up for the galleon crew to shoot themselves over to it and board. Killing the sloop crew, and instantly causing the ship to sink, because they didn't patch the holes. Glad I'm not a "Good" player... Doesn't seem like they play with much strategy...

If you hit a sloop on the top, or bottom, provided it isn't hit on the smallest part of the ship, will put a hole below water. The galleon doesn't even need to aim below water. But the sloop does. Also, it's ok to have 1 of the 2 crewmates allowed on the cannons leaving the sloop with no one steering, but you act like having someone do that on a ship with potentially 4 people is not balanced?

A few holes don't sink that fast though. Yah its easy to put a hole that will cause a leak... it's also not hard to do to a gallon...

But it is easier to do it to the sloop. You also in a previous comment pointed out that the galleon is higher up. Meaning the majority of the shots will be towards the top. Which will in turn literally shoot the sloop crew off, leaving the ship to sink.

Right a bad playstyle for taking on any ship. If someone from the galleon boards the sloop they will be able to potentially take out the crew, while they still have others on the galleon to continue to shoot cannons. As the game currently is, no matter what the galleon will have more players. If they take that approach they can send 1 person over and worst case scenario be outnumbered by 1 on the sloop, while still having a minimum of 2 left on the galleon. If a sloop sends a crewmate over to the galleon they have 1 person left. To steer, maintain the anchor, and deal with patching, because like I mentioned, almost every Cannon ball will cause a big leak.

It's still easier to baord a galleon.. sloops can easily move out of the way of swimmers.. play smart and avoid staying in cannon range long all while

Fact: galleons are faster than a sloop.
But it's harder to board a sloop? When you're in the water swim the direction they are turning into and you should be able to board. Shoot yourself out of the Cannon in front of the sloop, you will be able to board. Galleon is higher up, shoot yourself right onto the deck and you will be able to board... They both have the same size ladders, boarding a sloop is no different than boarding a galleon except for the fact that the ladder on the galleon while it is in motion can literally be out of reach because of waves.

Balance? Exactly. Balance. You just said the more powerful ship, with more man power should be able to force the sloop to run away then. That's not balance.

No I didn't. I said a sloop shouldn't be able to force a galleon to run away. That doesn't mean the opposite should be true. The game is currently balanced because the sloop with the less manpower and firepower can't take a galleon on directly and has to play it smart... it comes down to someone making a mistake which means its pretty balanced.

You say you want balance... You previously gave an example where a "Good" sloop crew would leave the battle (essentially running away). Then in this very response you point out that a galleon can take a sloop on directly, but a sloop shouldn't be able to take on a galleon directly. That is the opposite of balance.

Like I mentioned earlier.. if they make this change.. I just won't use galleons any more. Being able to utilize 4 cannons at any given time depends on those players putting up a terrible fight. Almost all other situations I've been in result in much longer drawn out fights with sail management/boarding tactics/ maneuvering around nearby islands etc.

You don't need to utilize the cannons at all times, but you said yourself, it all depends.
Then you continue to say that the other situations involve the sloop running away. (But in this very post you claim that there shouldn't be a situation where a ship needs to run away).
It seems like your arguments are starting to contradict themselves... Maybe it's about time to just agree to disagree?

@gu1tarpunk41 said in [Every Good Argument Against the 4

Also, exactly what does the galleon have to do that the sloop doesn't? They both need to steer, they both need to board up the ship, they both need to shoot, they both need to raise and or lower the anchor.
Also, it wouldn't put the sloop at a disadvantage having 1 person to steer, patch, and shoot? Really?

They need additional people to do that efficiently.... because the sloop isn't identical to a galleon.

You still seem to be comparing that the manpower is equally necessary on both ships... they aren't. That's a fact.

Just like the galleon already has? So adding 2 more would make balance then correct? Put 2 things on one side of a scale, and 4 of the same thing on the other side... Guarantee it will slant. Not balance out.

The galleon doesn't have that.. it requires more time to do everything including bail. 1 person isn't as effective at ship duties...

So adding two more would unbalance it.

The galleon has 4 cannons lined up, each Cannon has the same radius that it can shoot. The galleon has a wider range that it can fire. If the galleon is moving it will be able to cover more of the sea than the sloop. You said yourself someone on a sloop isn't going to sit around... Which would mean it would be going in and out of range. When it is in motion the 1 person who isn't steering will be to busy patching holes. No one to even shoot back in that case. If you say that no one needs to be steering, the same can be said for the galleon, set it towards open sea n worry about the other stuff. But you won't have that problem with the galleon because you still have the extra people to be able to steer.

The galleon can't outmaneuver a sloop.

No one suggested the sloop flee. Just sail out of range of the cannons which could be towards the front or the back of the galleon...

But it is still faster than the galleon is, but the difference is that that galleon already can use the strategy that you just presented. A sloop cannot.

You didn't understand the strategy... the galleon can flee.. the sloop can maneuver to ranges the galleon can't hit easily

So just bail water, don't patch the ship to prevent the water from coming in? Giving the galleon time to continue to shoot you, adding more holes, so that it requires both the entire sloop crew to repair it? Below you say, "No I didn't. I said a sloop shouldn't be able to force a galleon to run away. That doesn't mean the opposite should be true." but here you litterally say "good" players run away n just continuously bail the water opening up for the galleon crew to shoot themselves over to it and board. Killing the sloop crew, and instantly causing the ship to sink, because they didn't patch the holes. Glad I'm not a "Good" player... Doesn't seem like they play with much strategy...

I didn't literally say they run away. Apparently, range to you can only mean distance but your forgetting angles.. the sloop can circle a galleon relatively easily and the galleons turn speed is slow and unresponsive. IE the best range for the sloop to always be in is out of the firing range of the galleon but having clear shots on the galleon.

But it is easier to do it to the sloop. You also in a previous comment pointed out that the galleon is higher up. Meaning the majority of the shots will be towards the top. Which will in turn literally shoot the sloop crew off, leaving the ship to sink.

What? Galleon is higher up. It doesn't have a magnetized mast you can easily aim angled down... the sloops cannons are at the perfect height for it where depending on the wave.. your galleon's cannons might be firing over a sloop. We are talking about skilled crews remember?

Fact: galleons are faster than a sloop.
But it's harder to board a sloop? When you're in the water swim the direction they are turning into and you should be able to board. Shoot yourself out of the Cannon in front of the sloop, you will be able to board. Galleon is higher up, shoot yourself right onto the deck and you will be able to board... They both have the same size ladders, boarding a sloop is no different than boarding a galleon except for the fact that the ladder on the galleon while it is in motion can literally be out of reach because of waves.

Sloops turning ability is extremely responsive. An aware team just turns if they see someone fire in the water which is a trivial observation once you know what to look for... I fail to see how a galleon going faster but... much much more predictable and a bigger target is 'harder' to board via swimming in front or firing up...

You say you want balance... You previously gave an example where a "Good" sloop crew would leave the battle (essentially running away). Then in this very response you point out that a galleon can take a sloop on directly, but a sloop shouldn't be able to take on a galleon directly. That is the opposite of balance.

Essentially wrong and misunderstood the argument about range. Even though I clearly pointed out the sloop would continue to attack while the galleon would be out of range.

You don't need to utilize the cannons at all times, but you said yourself, it all depends.

right... with 2 sloop vs 4 galleon.

Then you continue to say that the other situations involve the sloop running away. (But in this very post you claim that there shouldn't be a situation where a ship needs to run away).

staying out of the range of the cannons... not out of the range to attack.

It seems like your arguments are starting to contradict themselves... Maybe it's about time to just agree to disagree?

Maybe its about time for some reading comprehension?

This is an honest question... have you PvP'd much to actually understand the difference in how maneuverability plays out? You seem to think PvP is 4 players on cannons just firing non stop and without aiming.

@savagetwinky said in Every Good Argument Against the 4 Man Sloop:

@gu1tarpunk41 said in [Every Good Argument Against the 4

Also, exactly what does the galleon have to do that the sloop doesn't? They both need to steer, they both need to board up the ship, they both need to shoot, they both need to raise and or lower the anchor.
Also, it wouldn't put the sloop at a disadvantage having 1 person to steer, patch, and shoot? Really?

They need additional people to do that efficiently.... because the sloop isn't identical to a galleon.

So it is just as efficient to have 2 people do the same tasks as 4 people? Neat.

You still seem to be comparing that the manpower is equally necessary on both ships... they aren't. That's a fact.

Simply pointing out facts. If you want to have someone patching, bailing, steering, and shooting, that takes 4 people. Not really balanced for the stronger ship to be able to do all of the above, while the smaller, weaker ship can't. Oh, but it can turn better!

Just like the galleon already has? So adding 2 more would make balance then correct? Put 2 things on one side of a scale, and 4 of the same thing on the other side... Guarantee it will slant. Not balance out.

The galleon doesn't have that.. it requires more time to do everything including bail. 1 person isn't as effective at ship duties...

So adding two more would unbalance it.

But we already established that it takes longer to fill the galleon per shot correct? The extra time you are given will compensate for the extra time it takes. The extra cannons allow for the potential of also putting out more damage.

The galleon has 4 cannons lined up, each Cannon has the same radius that it can shoot. The galleon has a wider range that it can fire. If the galleon is moving it will be able to cover more of the sea than the sloop. You said yourself someone on a sloop isn't going to sit around... Which would mean it would be going in and out of range. When it is in motion the 1 person who isn't steering will be to busy patching holes. No one to even shoot back in that case. If you say that no one needs to be steering, the same can be said for the galleon, set it towards open sea n worry about the other stuff. But you won't have that problem with the galleon because you still have the extra people to be able to steer.

The galleon can't outmaneuver a sloop.

But to compensate for that it has a wider range that it can shoot the cannons. It won't need to outmaneuver because it has a wider area that it can do the damage. The galleon can also take more hits due to the first floor. Also, your statement doesn't disprove anything that you are intending it to. It doesn't need to out maneuver it. You said yourself that a sloop shouldn't be able to go right at a galleon because it is more powerful.

No one suggested the sloop flee. Just sail out of range of the cannons which could be towards the front or the back of the galleon...

So, a "Good" sloop crew would steer towards the front of the galleon so it can get rammed by the bigger ship, or steer towards the rear so the extra crew drop explosives or can jump off and board it? Once again, so glad I'm not a "Good" player.

But it is still faster than the galleon is, but the difference is that that galleon already can use the strategy that you just presented. A sloop cannot.

You didn't understand the strategy... the galleon can flee.. the sloop can maneuver to ranges the galleon can't hit easily

But what you don't understand is while the sloop is doing the crazy maneuvers, the galleon will also at times be out of shooting range as well. Which means that the galleon will not be taking hits either, allowing for them to also get patched. Rendering the combat before the repairs useless except for wasting materials, which the galleon can store more of.

So just bail water, don't patch the ship to prevent the water from coming in? Giving the galleon time to continue to shoot you, adding more holes, so that it requires both the entire sloop crew to repair it? Below you say, "No I didn't. I said a sloop shouldn't be able to force a galleon to run away. That doesn't mean the opposite should be true." but here you litterally say "good" players run away n just continuously bail the water opening up for the galleon crew to shoot themselves over to it and board. Killing the sloop crew, and instantly causing the ship to sink, because they didn't patch the holes. Glad I'm not a "Good" player... Doesn't seem like they play with much strategy...

I didn't literally say they run away. Apparently, range to you can only mean distance but your forgetting angles.. the sloop can circle a galleon relatively easily and the galleons turn speed is slow and unresponsive. IE the best range for the sloop to always be in is out of the firing range of the galleon but having clear shots on the galleon.

If a galleon isn't just sitting there the amount of time the sloop will be out of range, and still be able to shoot is minimal. If you are in front, the galleon is faster, therefore will catch up. If you are behind, they could simply board you, drop explosives raise a sail or 2 or lower the anchor, and bam back in the Cannon's range.

But it is easier to do it to the sloop. You also in a previous comment pointed out that the galleon is higher up. Meaning the majority of the shots will be towards the top. Which will in turn literally shoot the sloop crew off, leaving the ship to sink.

What? Galleon is higher up. It doesn't have a magnetized mast you can easily aim angled down... the sloops cannons are at the perfect height for it where depending on the wave.. your galleon's cannons might be firing over a sloop. We are talking about skilled crews remember?

Maybe its about time for some reading comprehension? Actually more like common sense... If you are higher up then something. Then you aim down (because you can easily aim angled down) and shoot. Where will the projectile make impact first? Below, or above the smaller object?
Also, you can seriously say that it is not more common to be shot off of a sloop than a galleon? That it's easier to shoot someone off of a galleon with a sloop?

Fact: galleons are faster than a sloop.
But it's harder to board a sloop? When you're in the water swim the direction they are turning into and you should be able to board. Shoot yourself out of the Cannon in front of the sloop, you will be able to board. Galleon is higher up, shoot yourself right onto the deck and you will be able to board... They both have the same size ladders, boarding a sloop is no different than boarding a galleon except for the fact that the ladder on the galleon while it is in motion can literally be out of reach because of waves.

Sloops turning ability is extremely responsive. An aware team just turns if they see someone fire in the water which is a trivial observation once you know what to look for... I fail to see how a galleon going faster but... much much more predictable and a bigger target is 'harder' to board via swimming in front or firing up...

The ladder size is exactly the same. The size of the ship has nothing to do with how hard it is to grab that ladder. Saying otherwise is just silly. Also, you may not have realized this, but let me point this out... You swim slower than a ship can sail. If one ship is sailing faster, then it would be harder to grab that moving target as if goes by than grabbing that same size object on a slower ship.

You say you want balance... You previously gave an example where a "Good" sloop crew would leave the battle (essentially running away). Then in this very response you point out that a galleon can take a sloop on directly, but a sloop shouldn't be able to take on a galleon directly. That is the opposite of balance.

Essentially wrong and misunderstood the argument about range. Even though I clearly pointed out the sloop would continue to attack while the galleon would be out of range.

Which is it? You said get out of range to patch the boat. Now you claim you say that you "clearly pointed out the sloop would continue to attack". We already established... With 1 steering, and 1 patching, there is no one to shoot. Maybe the problem is you keep mixing the 2 ships up?

You don't need to utilize the cannons at all times, but you said yourself, it all depends.

right... with 2 sloop vs 4 galleon.

The point is that you have the ability to if you need to. Also, hopefully you took a capture of the 2 sloop vs 4 galleon. That must have been a good fight! I wouldn't be surprised with that many ships fighting that some of them collided!

Then you continue to say that the other situations involve the sloop running away. (But in this very post you claim that there shouldn't be a situation where a ship needs to run away).

staying out of the range of the cannons... not out of the range to attack.

Again, which is it? Go to the front to be rammed or the back to be boarded while you patch your boat, or should you shoot? You clearly said get out of range before you patch your boat. We already established only a 4 man crew can do both.

It seems like your arguments are starting to contradict themselves... Maybe it's about time to just agree to disagree?

Maybe its about time for some reading comprehension?

Says the guy telling the story about 2 sloop vs 4 galleon.

This is an honest question... have you PvP'd much to actually understand the difference in how maneuverability plays out? You seem to think PvP is 4 players on cannons just firing non stop and without aiming.

I have, which is how I know most of your examples of "good" sloop players are just silly. When was the last time you PvP'd and didn't either board the other ship, or get boarded? Almost every encounter one way or another that happens and can be the deciding factor in the outcome. That is exactly why not patching the boat and just bailing water non-stop is a bad idea. Your bailing and continue to get shot (more holes) until your out of range and then get boarded... The amount of time you have to kill the guy who boarded will without a doubt sink your sloop. Maybe not a galleon, but definitely a sloop. If you have 4 holes and 1 person patching you can barely get them all before the ship sinks. Try it, shoot a gunpowder barrel on the sloop, count to 5, then start patching. I only say count to 5 because in a real encounter you won't have 1 of your crewmates below deck right off the bat on a sloop, and it you do that's just a waste unless you are on a galleon.
Moral of the story is if you just bail water out and not patch them asap, then your a sitting duck with alot of potential to sink.
I am the one who had to point out to you that when the ship is hit you take damage and are knocked out of the animation of repairing the boat and need to start the whole process over. This was when you claimed there was no reason to continue to shoot if there was an existing hole.
I am the one who also had to point out that gunpowder can be dropped to damage your boat if you stay "out of range" from behind.
I was able to point out to you exactly how each of your "strategies" could fail.
You keep saying all of this stuff about good players do this, but none of the stuff makes sense except keeping the boat in motion, which should be assumed from both ship types.

Do you know what good players do? Board the other ship to distract the other crew while having the other members of thier crew continue to damage the other ship so they can't patch it up. That will sink any ship faster and more effective than any other strategy.
Board the other ship and if it's in motion steer it towards an island or rocks.

I will say it for the 2nd time now...
It is probably just best to just agree to disagree.

The argument that a sloop is already better than a galleon because it is more maneuverable is pointless. A competent sloop crew can easily stay out of range of a galleon yes, even a good galleon crew but you aren't accomplishing anything. just avoiding taking major damage while doing very little damage yourself. That doesn't make you good. as long as the galleon keeps its wits and continually sends people your way while watching ladders you will be caught and sunk eventually. usually all we need to do is board once.