4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate

@pugmie said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@lenny2k3

The thing to consider is that unlike the Galleon, the Sloop even in solo play has the option to peel off and restabilize- a lot easier than a Galleon can. It has less surface area to worry about, and the sail only requires one person to manage, which allows the sloop more leeway towards spending its members as resources while all hands on galleon deck are often stretch thin in some circumstances.

Oh absolutely, that's what I pointed out in my post, in regards to more bodies to throw at the ladders. My point was that if the galleon doesn't want to sink, it just ain't happening, same goes for the sloop.

The main reason I personally want the 4 man sloop, is that I absolutely despise using the galleon, because of how tedious it is. You don't really get to "play the game" per se, since you are more often than not stuck in a role, which gets immensely boring.

If they simply scaled the time certain actions took the more crewmembers you had on the sloop, I doubt it would become an issue at all. (Mainly thinking about sails/anchor)
In all honesty, it's a miracle that it doesn't work like that at the moment, since the galleon for example is damn near unusable with only 3 players. At least if you intend to actually play the game, instead of playing sail adjusting simulator.

Short answer: NO. This has been discussed in quite many threads already and I think it's fair to say there's more players who would dislike this then like it. 3 man at very most!

Long answer: 4 man sloops, so why should ppl ever play a galleon? Sure it has more cannons but since it's bigger there's obviously alot more places you need to run and repair-bail water then on a sloop. Send 2 ppl from sloop (2 left) it's still VERY effective, send 2 from galleon (2 left), 1 drives and 1 guy will have to adjust 3 sails, repair-bail if we compare this roughly. Plus all the already spoken things like sloops being alot more nimble and slippery etc.

Made a quick test on a sloop myself. Took a gunpowder barrel and blew it up under the main deck, in it's front. Got 4 holes but I alone could bail the water more quickly then it filled. So adding more then 2, no just no. I can stand in 1 place and rep those holes very easy myself. As long sloop has resources, gl try sink that. Smaller target to hit for galleon. It's strength is having more crew and cannons if sloop decided to flat out try brawl head on so it should be like that. + and - with both ships in different situations.

Sure I do play on a pc but a man closing in on his 40 and played lots of online games and learned a thing or two, but why should I have to get the short stick just because there are some players who has difficulty playing the game. So insted of learning and become better they come to forums and complain. Do it enough and sometimes/eventually devs takes action. It's sad. I had to earn my share and learn when I was young too.

To sum this up, since it seems to be confirmed I guess it's pointless to argue any further. Just feels like the, and I will be polite and use the term "less experienced" player got their wish. So what's next on this agenda, hand em the silver plattern for everything else? Make skull islands a pve-instance phased cause god forbid to have some awareness and reaction to what might be coming your way right?

Rare's next project should be a PvE pirate simulator game. Sorry I went a little overboared here but there's so many bad aspects to this and this post is already long enough so I'll stop here. Sorry for the long reply and grammar.

@savagetwinky
How is the gall easier to board? The helmsman can more easily watch the ladders because they are way in front and downstairs of him. He can even hop up on the railings and shoot the ladders from above and the side.
On the sloop, boarders come up right next to the helmsman and, should he not be aware, immediately shoot him.

A gall with 2/3 sails up is just as maneuverable as a sloop, and one person can quite easily handle that. The galleon being an easier target to shoot at is meaningless when most crews end up peppering your upper deck. And when a sloop can shoot a galleon, the galleon can shoot the sloop - only with 4 times as many guns. :)

"There are no advantages to being in a galleon when fighting a sloop if the people are equally skilled... except for additional manpower."
... and firepower. And speed. And being harder to sink. And being larger and higher up, making it harder to hit people with cannons while making it easier to shoot onto the deck of the sloop.

great i can kill 4 instead of two

@lenny2k3 said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@pugmie said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@lenny2k3

The thing to consider is that unlike the Galleon, the Sloop even in solo play has the option to peel off and restabilize- a lot easier than a Galleon can. It has less surface area to worry about, and the sail only requires one person to manage, which allows the sloop more leeway towards spending its members as resources while all hands on galleon deck are often stretch thin in some circumstances.

Oh absolutely, that's what I pointed out in my post, in regards to more bodies to throw at the ladders. My point was that if the galleon doesn't want to sink, it just ain't happening, same goes for the sloop.

The main reason I personally want the 4 man sloop, is that I absolutely despise using the galleon, because of how tedious it is. You don't really get to "play the game" per se, since you are more often than not stuck in a role, which gets immensely boring.

If they simply scaled the time certain actions took the more crewmembers you had on the sloop, I doubt it would become an issue at all. (Mainly thinking about sails/anchor)
In all honesty, it's a miracle that it doesn't work like that at the moment, since the galleon for example is damn near unusable with only 3 players. At least if you intend to actually play the game, instead of playing sail adjusting simulator.

Respectfully disagree. Allow me to explain. First, this sounds like just another "I can't play galleon, too much work, make it easier for me". Now I will not go on a full rant on you cause it serves neither of us so I will be fair and say yes it is more work on a galleon but with 4 man using voice and willing to learn, adapt and use whatever teamwork they could bring, it is not that hard accually.

I will also be very honest here. When my IRL mate and I firstly started to play this game we obviously played sloop 99% of the time. Why? Because we knew how things will be 9/10 times joining in with randoms, seldom uses voice or even have a mic. Lol-ing around on the ship, taking the wheel, wasting cannonballs out in mid air just for "fun". List can be long.

So what did we do? We made threads on different forums to try get more likeminded players, explaining what we are after and so on. In short we had to do some work to get where we are today. Now we sit in a 4 man galleon, all using mic, very friendly and helpful, having a blast. But again, we had to work for it.

So, join a random galleon or get randoms in it, no. So I will try tell you to make more friends and get a premade up. Trust me it's so worth it. Because when you say you need more then 4 on a galleon (if all work together with voice com) I'm sorry to say but then it's on your end. We sometimes play as 3 man galleon and make it work. Sure it is more risky but doable, and no I don't consider myself to be some elitist "best player on server" bs =)

@admiral-slanten
Most of the players who would dislike this don't seem to have given it any kind of thought, and are failing to take into account the actual reason for this change and the positive aspects that come with it.
So do you, since you seem to believe that this 4 man sloop change is a result of "less experienced players getting their wish", then go on to state the same tired arguments that we've been debating for weeks now.

People wished for private crews, because they want to be able to invite friends into ongoing sessions or join into ongoing sessions of their friends. That wish makes a lot of sense and has nothing to do with player experience. It makes absolute sense to allow 4 people on a sloop for the simple fact that people could then join ongoing sessions of 2 friends already playing.
That is where this entire idea, which was Rares idea btw, is coming from.

For some reason, people latch onto "muh balance" and throw their absolutisms (4 man sloops could be op so let's just forget about the entire idea - seriously?) into a debate that is not even about balance. Regardless, there are a million more subtle ways to balance 4 man sloops.
It's entirely possible to have this positive mechanic of private crews and the ability to pick a ship because you want to sail it, not because that's how many friends happen to be available, including 4 on a sloop, and have a balanced game at the same time!

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@admiral-slanten
Most of the players who would dislike this don't seem to have given it any kind of thought, and are failing to take into account the actual reason for this change and the positive aspects that come with it.
So do you, since you seem to believe that this 4 man sloop change is a result of "less experienced players getting their wish", then go on to state the same tired arguments that we've been debating for weeks now.

People wished for private crews, because they want to be able to invite friends into ongoing sessions or join into ongoing sessions of their friends. That wish makes a lot of sense and has nothing to do with player experience. It makes absolute sense to allow 4 people on a sloop for the simple fact that people could then join ongoing sessions of 2 friends already playing.
That is where this entire idea, which was Rares idea btw, is coming from.

For some reason, people latch onto "muh balance" and throw their absolutisms (4 man sloops could be op so let's just forget about the entire idea - seriously?) into a debate that is not even about balance. Regardless, there are a million more subtle ways to balance 4 man sloops.
It's entirely possible to have this positive mechanic of private crews and the ability to pick a ship because you want to sail it, not because that's how many friends happen to be available, including 4 on a sloop, and have a balanced game at the same time!

Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you need to type in the manner you just did and with that long "bold" letters just to try prove your point. What's saying you are more right then me and vise versa. It's an opinion. Regardles if it comes from Rare itself, doesn't mean they can't be questioned or get critizied in a constructive way. Keep it sane.

@rentagod said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

Awful idea. Not sure what else needs to be said. Rare have failed massively in the balancing of cross play already if you ask me, this only serves to break the game further.

Indeed. Like I said in my first post, more dislike this then like. And what's kinda funny is that most ppl who want this change doesn't give a good and healthy explanation. And when someone (like me) who types a rather long reason to why with indepth thoughts on it, simply gets bashed. Like we have to fully understand their point of view but they can never see it in our way.

@admiral-slanten
"you need to type in the manner you just did "
What manner would that be?

I've made the point bold because I've been saying that for well over two weeks now, but everytime we get somewhere, someone new will come in without having read through the thread and start the cycle all over again. So I will keep repeating it until people got it into their heads that this does not have to be a question of either / or.
If you want a good and healthy explanation, I've written countless of paragraphs in this very thread. Feel free to browse through them.

I will only accept a 4 man sloop if we could have a 8 man galleon.

@cpt-toothpick
What if you don't know?
What if it's only one additional friend, making a total of three?
What if the first two started with a sloop and then the other two come online but the two in a sloop just started a fort, so the other two start their own sloop to pass the time, but by the time the first crew is ready to go, the second crew has sunk a galleon with 100 chests on board and now wants to turn them in before joining up with the first crew?

How could you possibly argue against the ability to join your friends, seamlessly, at any time?

All the concerns about the 4 man sloop could be offset by literally changing a few integers in the code, for example to buff the galleon a little bit, should that provide necessary. We should not even be discussing about wanting this change or not, because the positive aspects are clearly and obviously outweighing the concerns about balance, and I have yet to see an argument against these aspects.
Why are we not instead focusing our efforts into coming up with ideas to balance the 4 man sloop, should it indeed be unbalanced? A suggestion I've made over 3 weeks ago, by the way.

@cpt-toothpick said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@admiral-slanten said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@rentagod said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

Awful idea. Not sure what else needs to be said. Rare have failed massively in the balancing of cross play already if you ask me, this only serves to break the game further.

Indeed. Like I said in my first post, more dislike this then like. And what's kinda funny is that most ppl who want this change doesn't give a good and healthy explanation. And when someone (like me) who types a rather long reason to why with indepth thoughts on it, simply gets bashed. Like we have to fully understand their point of view but they can never see it in our way.

They will go on a rant that they need it because they are lazy and want easy mode anyway. I did see someone pointing out that give us a reason why we should not have 4 man sloops etc. The reason is so clear for us, It will be OP when you can allready do everything on that ship pretty much with 1 man effectivly and they need 2 more :P Only reason I can think off why they need thoes 2 extra is bad players gona be bad.

Exactly. Most of the times people just shout "please help me, fix, buff, make it ezmode so I can play" or the big rant session with little context, just raging. Where ppl like us take our time to explain why things are good or bad. Plus we both know what kind of player/generation usually wants changes like this ^^

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@cpt-toothpick
What if you don't know?
What if it's only one additional friend, making a total of three?
What if the first two started with a sloop and then the other two come online but the two in a sloop just started a fort, so the other two start their own sloop to pass the time, but by the time the first crew is ready to go, the second crew has sunk a galleon with 100 chests on board and now wants to turn them in before joining up with the first crew?

How could you possibly argue against the ability to join your friends, seamlessly, at any time?

All the concerns about the 4 man sloop could be offset by literally changing a few integers in the code, for example to buff the galleon a little bit, should that provide necessary. We should not even be discussing about wanting this change or not, because the positive aspects are clearly and obviously outweighing the concerns about balance, and I have yet to see an argument against these aspects.
Why are we not instead focusing our efforts into coming up with ideas to balance the 4 man sloop, should it indeed be unbalanced? A suggestion I've made over 3 weeks ago, by the way.

If you want 4 man sloop that's fine as it's your opinion and choice of belief but if you simply can't see how that would be more bad then good as far as balancing goes, then we must play a different game. Should you be able to play with (more) friends in a game like this? Absolutley, but think at what cost it will be. You are alone or have one friend to play with? You go sloop. You are 3 ppl, can't get 3rd atm or just 3 all the time or got 4 ppl? You play galleon. I just don't see how that is so hard to understand. As they will soon add the ability to invite friends only to your ships. Like a private locked slot.

I did however say 3 on a sloop as max so I'm not flat yelling no to any changes to the game.

@admiral-slanten
I think Rare primarily wants to give us the ability to seamlessly join our friends in ongoing sessions, by giving us the option to create private crews with lockable slots.
I also believe that being able to choose the ship you want to sail regardless of your crew size would allow more player freedom and lead to more diverse gameplay and adventures.

"how that would be more bad then good as far as balancing goes"
"think at what cost it will be"

Well, that's entirely speculative and up to the devs, is it not?
That's my point, they can allow us to have 4 people on a sloop if necessary, while still keeping it balanced.

@cpt-toothpick
"Well then they are gona have to wait just like they do now"
So you actually prefer waiting around for unknown amounts of time instead of being able to play with your friends?

"Because we don't want your bad planning to ruin the balance of the game."
It's Rares idea, not mine. I've said that like 10 times now in this thread.

"We can't balance the 4 man sloop period."
Clearly, you lack the imagination to do so. That is largely irrelevant and does not mean the devs suffer from the same problem.

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

@savagetwinky
"The sloop has an advantage in maneuverability."
Meh, not that big of a difference tbh.

"If they have [...] the ability to easily board "
That ability has nothing to do with the sloop tho?

Please forgive my lack of vision. I did not read all of your replies on this thead. Had I seen this I would not have bothered trying to tell you anything. Just by reading your statement that sloop doesn't really have an advantage vs a galleon in maneuverability pretty much sums it up. If sloop knows what (s)he or they are doing.

@cpt-toothpick
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Yes you can, it's a game.
And yes, you can plan ahead and do this and that. Obviously that's what everyone is doing. But that doesn't mean it's a good situation or that we can't improve it - with literally no downside.

Less time in menus or loading screens, more time with friends, more player freedom and choice, more diverse gameplay, breaking up the meta game - all those are advantages of this change.
The only disadvantage is that it might require some balance tweaks.

How is that not a good thing?

@admiral-slanten
If you raise 2/3 sails and just use the back sail on the galleon, it can match the sloops maneuverability very well. That's a fact.

Bom pessoal eu acho que deveria aumentar a tripulaçao do galeão para 6 ficaria bem melhor

@admiral-slanten said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

Respectfully disagree. Allow me to explain. First, this sounds like just another "I can't play galleon, too much work, make it easier for me". Now I will not go on a full rant on you cause it serves neither of us so I will be fair and say yes it is more work on a galleon but with 4 man using voice and willing to learn, adapt and use whatever teamwork they could bring, it is not that hard accually.

I will also be very honest here. When my IRL mate and I firstly started to play this game we obviously played sloop 99% of the time. Why? Because we knew how things will be 9/10 times joining in with randoms, seldom uses voice or even have a mic. Lol-ing around on the ship, taking the wheel, wasting cannonballs out in mid air just for "fun". List can be long.

So what did we do? We made threads on different forums to try get more likeminded players, explaining what we are after and so on. In short we had to do some work to get where we are today. Now we sit in a 4 man galleon, all using mic, very friendly and helpful, having a blast. But again, we had to work for it.

So, join a random galleon or get randoms in it, no. So I will try tell you to make more friends and get a premade up. Trust me it's so worth it. Because when you say you need more then 4 on a galleon (if all work together with voice com) I'm sorry to say but then it's on your end. We sometimes play as 3 man galleon and make it work. Sure it is more risky but doable, and no I don't consider myself to be some elitist "best player on server" bs =)

Stop with the projections, there is nothing "respectful" in pretending that the person you are replying to is r. SoT is an easy game, and it takes an experienced player literally 15 minutes to learn and perform everything the game has to offer in terms of mechanics. This is what your entire reply to me hinges upon though, so I don't see any reason to reply to anything else.

My opinion still stands, the mechanics of the galleon takes a lot of time, and is especially tedious and boring if you are 3 players. Yes, boring, not difficult. These are two seperate things. Hence, I prefer the sloop, because you can spend less time playing sail adjust simulator.

Judging by your other arguments here though, I see no reason in keeping any discussion going. You have the classic holier than thou attitude, while completely ignoring points given, while exclaiming things like: "Exactly. Most of the times people just shout "please help me, fix, buff, make it ezmode so I can play" or the big rant session with little context, just raging."

Pointless.

@nebenkuh said in 4 man Sloop crew confirmed by Joe Neate:

"We can't balance the 4 man sloop period."
Clearly, you lack the imagination to do so. That is largely irrelevant and does not mean the devs suffer from the same problem.

I've never understood people who says things like this. I simply cannot grasp how someone can have such an obviously logically flawed view.

@lenny2k3
"I've never understood people who says things like this."

It's just what some people do. We will never be able to fly, we will never go to Mars, we will never put men on the moon, cars will never replace the horse, we will never use the Internet in a meaningful way, tv will never replace radio, Trump will never be president. ..

Ok one of those is not like the other, but I guess some people can't imagine something so it must be impossible. :)

@savagetwinky
You know, I'm really tired of going through these hyptothectical what if arguments. In the end, it comes down to player skill and crew communication.
Both ships have their advantages and disadvantages, so some crews will prefer one over the other. I think that's great, and that crews should be able to pick the ship they want to sail on, regardless if they are 2, 3 or 4 people.

I want this change because of the incredible benefits I've outlined previously, and I believe that Rare will be able to balance accordingly, should that be necessary.
One thing I've learned from these hypothetical back and forths is that they've done a great job at balancing so far. Galleons beat sloops, but sloops also beat galleons. Players who primarily play sloop are confident they can take on any galleon, and vice versa. So Rare seems to know what they're doing. I'm confident that they know what they're doing with this change. :)

All I know is, if a sloop tries to sneak up on my galleon at an outpost, allmost 100% of the time I'm able to turn my broadside, tell my crew to get on the cannons, get there myself, and sank it in a matter of second.

Sloops are dangerous at sea when maneuvered well, but if you limit their angle, it doesnt matter much how many people are on it. Nothing will stop 4 cannons firing at a sloop from sinking it fast and possible killing everyone inside or blowing them off of the ship while doing so.

As such, I think 4 people sloop could make an interesting challenge.