I came in here to read what others have said about this because I like the idea. So many pages, so after the first few with great ideas I skipped to the end because it would take far to long to read it all. I will post that my husband and I were discussing this ourselves and we both would love it if this could be implemented in some way.
Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
@pumpkinkangaroo Thanks for checking it out! Sorry you had read the insane arguing we have been doing (of which I have been an ashamed contributor). What was your conversation about with your other half? What ideas did you two come too?
@touchdown1504 Pointing out the flaws with this suggestion, the lack of a need for it to be implemented, and challenging points made in favor of it - is constructive, and I will continue to do that, thanks.
In addition to being absolutely unnecessary, a major problem with the proposal is that it is, in essence, a penalty for gaining loot via PvP. Simply saying ‘screw it, PvP is not an efficient way to progress anyway’, as @AngryCoconut16 suggested earlier, isn’t really an appropriate solution. So, how do you address that problem?
Another problem is that giving this bonus at “Voyage Complete” penalizes casual players who may not be able to play for hours and, as difficulty and voyage length increase, are no longer able to reach “Voyage Complete” during the time they have to play - thereby creating the situation you wish to avoid... a player logging out having gained nothing for their time and investment. How would you go about addressing that flaw with this suggestion?
@touchdown1504 Also, what is to be considered an acceptable time frame for logging out having made no progression? Obviously, if you log in and then immediately log off, you gain nothing. If you’re still at the outpost and log off you. Is there a time frame during a player to logs off having gained nothing and the devs can claim say that’s acceptable? Never is unreasonable.
And, will there be a requirement to not fool around... be silly, or goof around, play around on the ship, but, rather stick to the voyage and do so efficiently in order to get this PvE voyage bonus? Or can you choose to have a voyage on your table, circumnavigate the entire world, stopping off to shoot chickens at every island, take some potshots at a Galleon doing a fort, play “put so and so in the brig” for a laugh... and still be guaranteed not to log off having gained nothing?
@TouchDown1504 We were thinking along the same lines as many others who posted. Doing the voyages gives you rep while turning in the loot would give gold.
I am no good at PvP and I know it. That said if I have loot (anything of value of around 500g) my mind values it as the Queen's greatest treasure and I do all I can (running right to the red zone if need be) to keep it from the hands of her enemies! Insane? Yes, I'm sure many see it that way. What can I say?
While discussing it with my husband we came up with the idea that if we still get rep for doing (completing) our voyage, I would be more willing to risk the loss by engaging rather than fleeing. It seems my mind puts the Queen's treasure on the rep rather than the gold. She has lots of gold ;) .
@entspeak The way I have already addressed it. Don't promote past 20. Voyages stay somewhat doable in a small time frame. Edit: and Sail the edge of course! Until there is a change, my SOP is denying anyone any chance of getting what I have, even at my own loss. D**k move I know, but, in my eyes the system is flawed.
It doesn't penalize PvP in any sense. No one said that PvP players would not get the rewards for turning in. Ok, yeah there have been arguments that make it seem way, but from my stand point, PvP would be increased with a better version of risk vs. reward. What has been said is don't take the reputation/or reward reputation for tasks related to the voyage. Nobody is for penalizing PvP. As a matter of fact, I believe there should be Rep involved for engaging in PvP.
My issue, from the very beginning, is the time invested is simply not worth the loss (my opinion, shared by many). How that is resolved, or rectified, or adjusted. I don't really know. But at least there are a few hundred people willing to discuss ideas to find a way. So, thats all I was asking of you, was for an alternative thought. You don't have to contribute, that is your way. Pick it apart all you want. The idea is not going away. You still are not changing minds (excluding your personal fanboy of course)
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 Also, what is to be considered an acceptable time frame for logging out having made no progression? Obviously, if you log in and then immediately log off, you gain nothing. If you’re still at the outpost and log off you. Is there a time frame during a player to logs off having gained nothing and the devs can claim say that’s acceptable? Never is unreasonable.
And, will there be a requirement to not fool around... be silly, or goof around, play around on the ship, but, rather stick to the voyage and do so efficiently in order to get this PvE voyage bonus? Or can you choose to have a voyage on your table, circumnavigate the entire world, stopping off to shoot chickens at every island, take some potshots at a Galleon doing a fort, play “put so and so in the brig” for a laugh... and still be guaranteed not to log off having gained nothing?
Okay @entspeak now you are being ridiculous. You are smart enough to know what is meant by "Time Invested". INVESTED means you did something toward progression...as in a voyage, or a shipwreck, or a fort, or whatever is planned in the updates. This is EXACTLY what I meant earlier when I said the way you try to selectively pick apart people's conversations. You knew what was meant. time INVESTED. Shooting chickens, or goofing off at the pub is hardly time invested (except in fun) toward progression. Here, just for you, I will now call it "Time Invested Toward Progression" or "TITP" for short. Come on man.
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal
If a chest is worth 100 rep now and all of it is awarded on turn in, then a stolen chest still awards 100% of its value.
If a chest is worth 100 rep on turn in and a 25 rep bonus either on discovery or voyage completion, then the 100 rep you'd get for turning in the stolen chest is only 80% of its value.
In other words, you're providing added incentives to PvE without any added incentives to PvP. This messes with the meticulously crafted balance of the game and is counter to the dev's intentions.
It’s not 80% for the PvP player. It’s the exact same for him regardless. MA gives u 1/10 the loot if not on a mission as opposed to PvE. did you lose 90% of the loot? no it was never yours to begin with it. the xp gain to players is theirs for completing the voyage. Most of the reward however is still ripe for the taking.
I’ve provided reasons it why it incentivizes PvP: boats staying out longer likely carrying more treasure since the risk factor has been reduced a bit. Which actually increases PvP chance of gaining loot.
You look at it so one dimentionally. “More xp for PvE and nothing for Pvp.” Maybe that’s why you don’t see how this supports all play styles.
@pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@TouchDown1504 We were thinking along the same lines as many others who posted. Doing the voyages gives you rep while turning in the loot would give gold.
I am no good at PvP and I know it. That said if I have loot (anything of value of around 500g) my mind values it as the Queen's greatest treasure and I do all I can (running right to the red zone if need be) to keep it from the hands of her enemies! Insane? Yes, I'm sure many see it that way. What can I say?
While discussing it with my husband we came up with the idea that if we still get rep for doing (completing) our voyage, I would be more willing to risk the loss by engaging rather than fleeing. It seems my mind puts the Queen's treasure on the rep rather than the gold. She has lots of gold ;) .
Exactly! I have been reading the exact same sentiments a lot lately. The Red Sea has become the new way to handle a pursuit. "If I can't have it...You can't have it" Good on you and your Husband! Play the edges, people typically leave you alone because they know they can't catch you. #redsearaiders
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
If a chest is worth 100 rep now and all of it is awarded on turn in, then a stolen chest still awards 100% of its value.
If a chest is worth 100 rep on turn in and a 25 rep bonus either on discovery or voyage completion, then the 100 rep you'd get for turning in the stolen chest is only 80% of its value.
In other words, you're providing added incentives to PvE without any added incentives to PvP. This messes with the meticulously crafted balance of the game and is counter to the dev's intentions.
'meticulously crafted', you're having a laugh right? If you compared people who focus purely on PvE, and compare those who focus purely on PvP, the PvE has a far more efficient and easier time gaining rep and gold. The game isn't SUPPOSED to be designed to allow players to just focus on one or the other, the entire game is PvPvE. At the moment PvE players are mostly terrified of PvP because they have so much at risk, there is nothing balanced about it. Yes, you are adding incentive for PvE but you are also adding incentive for more healthy PvP - people won't be so hurt if they lose because they will have gained SOMETHING, and people will more readily engage in PvP, so this change is healthy for PvP too. If people focus ONLY on PvP then that is their decision, it already is c**p for getting loot compared to PvE so it won't change the current standing. Personally I think PvP needs a greater incentive even as it stands now, but that's for a different discussion. The suggestions in this thread would have a positive impact on PvP far more than any negative effects.
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak Yes it does. So, as I mentioned, we all know where you stand, your point has been made. Really not much else to say, right? you are happy with the current rewards system, and that is fine. I am not trying to change your mind at all. What I am trying to do, is have a conversation of "what could be". If you don't want to be a part of that constructive part of that conversation, start a new conversation on why the system is fine as it is. I have no doubts some conversations like that already exist.
I mean, given the actual original post in this thread, you should probably follow your own advise about starting a new thread.
And I've pointed out that loading the bonus on Voyage Complete means more players will be leaving loot like Foul Skulls and Castaway Chests behind, because they'd be worth even less than they are now.
If you'd ever done a Legendary voyage you'd understand, because that's what already happens. The Athena Chest is gained only after Voyage Complete, so crews will run around discovering chests, but leave the chests still 90% buried in sand. They will shoot off ships leaving one member behind to solve a riddle and never go back for the chest. See Legendary sails? It means that ship is actually much less likely to have a treasure trove on board than a mid level ship.
So, no. Your theory does not hold up, as is already demonstrable in game.
@lotrmith yeah I think this needs to be adressed, the legendary voyage is so blatantly lazy, to paraphrase a guy I played with "you basically get to do all three types of fetch quests at the same time". Not to oversimplify the voyage companies, but frankly a legendary voyage that is not about doing something legendary is so laaaaaaaaaaaaaame. Its not about doing a special type of quest for each of the three voyage companies, its about doing more of the same.
Off topic but had to be said.
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak Yes it does. So, as I mentioned, we all know where you stand, your point has been made. Really not much else to say, right? you are happy with the current rewards system, and that is fine. I am not trying to change your mind at all. What I am trying to do, is have a conversation of "what could be". If you don't want to be a part of that constructive part of that conversation, start a new conversation on why the system is fine as it is. I have no doubts some conversations like that already exist.
I mean, given the actual original post in this thread, you should probably follow your own advise about starting a new thread.
And I've pointed out that loading the bonus on Voyage Complete means more players will be leaving loot like Foul Skulls and Castaway Chests behind, because they'd be worth even less than they are now.
If you'd ever done a Legendary voyage you'd understand, because that's what already happens. The Athena Chest is gained only after Voyage Complete, so crews will run around discovering chests, but leave the chests still 90% buried in sand. They will shoot off ships leaving one member behind to solve a riddle and never go back for the chest. See Legendary sails? It means that ship is actually much less likely to have a treasure trove on board than a mid level ship.
So, no. Your theory does not hold up, as is already demonstrable in game.
Right except the other chest don’t have a good time/reward comparable value to the Athena chest.
Which is unlike this suggestion where completing the voyages is not a large percentage of the reward thus a lot of possible reward would be wasted not gathering chests.
A large percentage will still come from chests making the “doing it for voyage completion” argument false.
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
And I've pointed out that loading the bonus on Voyage Complete means more players will be leaving loot like Foul Skulls and Castaway Chests behind, because they'd be worth even less than they are now.
Incorrect. Depends on quantity. If 100% rep is awarded on voyage complete, then yes, this will be an issue. If it's a BONUS, and the loot still has its current worth, then no, people will NOT be leaving loot behind.
@pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@TouchDown1504 We were thinking along the same lines as many others who posted. Doing the voyages gives you rep while turning in the loot would give gold.
I am no good at PvP and I know it. That said if I have loot (anything of value of around 500g) my mind values it as the Queen's greatest treasure and I do all I can (running right to the red zone if need be) to keep it from the hands of her enemies! Insane? Yes, I'm sure many see it that way. What can I say?
While discussing it with my husband we came up with the idea that if we still get rep for doing (completing) our voyage, I would be more willing to risk the loss by engaging rather than fleeing. It seems my mind puts the Queen's treasure on the rep rather than the gold. She has lots of gold ;) .
I'd like to add my two cents as I'm not sure if you've heard what a few people reckon the problem with the OP suggestion is. Voyage = rep, loot = gold. Ok. What about the people (such as myself) who aren't interested in gold? Suddenly the loot is worthless (or almost) after voyage complete appears. The loot has GOT to have some rep associated with it, otherwise this change would create more problems than it solves. The better solution is to have bonus rep, on 'voyage complete', and leave loot rewards as they are currently. I can expand if you like but I made quite a more detailed post about it with numbered points concerning this, it was either last page or the one before I think...
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak Yes it does. So, as I mentioned, we all know where you stand, your point has been made. Really not much else to say, right? you are happy with the current rewards system, and that is fine. I am not trying to change your mind at all. What I am trying to do, is have a conversation of "what could be". If you don't want to be a part of that constructive part of that conversation, start a new conversation on why the system is fine as it is. I have no doubts some conversations like that already exist.
I mean, given the actual original post in this thread, you should probably follow your own advise about starting a new thread.
And I've pointed out that loading the bonus on Voyage Complete means more players will be leaving loot like Foul Skulls and Castaway Chests behind, because they'd be worth even less than they are now.
If you'd ever done a Legendary voyage you'd understand, because that's what already happens. The Athena Chest is gained only after Voyage Complete, so crews will run around discovering chests, but leave the chests still 90% buried in sand. They will shoot off ships leaving one member behind to solve a riddle and never go back for the chest. See Legendary sails? It means that ship is actually much less likely to have a treasure trove on board than a mid level ship.
So, no. Your theory does not hold up, as is already demonstrable in game.
Right except the other chest don’t have a good time/reward comparable value to the Athena chest.
Which is unlike this suggestion where completing the voyages is not a large percentage of the reward thus a lot of possible reward would be wasted not gathering chests.
A large percentage will still come from chests making the “doing it for voyage completion” argument false.
Your premise that players will be staying out at sea longer before turning in is wishful thinking
It is also irrelevant to the fact that a stolen chest will objectively be worth comparatively less than a voyage-discovered chest.
Your idea of having voyage-complete rewards that are enticing enough to actually go through with rather than cycle voyages when partially complete for greater loot amounts is incongruent with the idea that players won't leave lower value treasure behind to continue on with the voyage. This is already a demonstrable fact in the form of Legendary Voyages.
The only way to make this not true would be to make the bonus be less than the average value of all individual found items, otherwise the loot will continue to get left behind. There's no winning solution: Either the bonus is worth less than the value of a single Castaway Chest and nobody will bother completing a voyage just like now, or the bonus is worth the same or more and players will complete voyages in the same fashion they do Legendaries now, by dropping players off on single-chest islands and leaving the loot behind and generally doing the same for low value chests on multiple-chest islands.
Either way, the result is fewer chests on ships, which are worth comparatively less than they are now, which is a double disincentive to PvP and messes with the meticulously crafted balance of the game and is counter to the dev's intentions.
The very idea of having to complete an entire voyage to get a bonus that would be the only form of progression you get in the event that your ship is sunk is so counter to the premise of your argument that your time is valuable and deserves rewarding that I'm surprised nobody has laughed it off completely yet.
The primary audience for this idea is the casual player who simply doesn't have the time to complete an entire voyage anyway.
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
And I've pointed out that loading the bonus on Voyage Complete means more players will be leaving loot like Foul Skulls and Castaway Chests behind, because they'd be worth even less than they are now.
Incorrect. Depends on quantity. If 100% rep is awarded on voyage complete, then yes, this will be an issue. If it's a BONUS, and the loot still has its current worth, then no, people will NOT be leaving loot behind.
If it's a bonus then all that loot is worth comparatively less than it is now and you have increased incentive to PvE without an appropriate increase in incentive to PvP.
Nevermind that there is no value for the bonus that would simultaneously be large enough to actually cause players to complete voyages but also small enough that they'd still need to collect all their loot along the way. Those two premises are diametrically opposed.
@lotrmith just a number but 50% of loot value on completion. You think people will leave 2/3 of their possible rep and all gold behind? That’s ridiculous
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Yeah for sure, I'm not on the split the loot side, I want bonus stuff.
Okay, so... what do you say to the guy who gets a 25% bonus but looses 100% of the loot?
Im not 100 percent sure what you mean. I say, if I get like 10 percent of a level when I finish my voyage, and then I get sunk and robbed because I was out finishing my voyage, then the change we are proposing worked on all fronts. I'm much more happy with the way the game works, I got some rep and im playing a dope pirate game where I can steal people's stuff
@angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@pumpkinkangaroo said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@TouchDown1504 We were thinking along the same lines as many others who posted. Doing the voyages gives you rep while turning in the loot would give gold.
I am no good at PvP and I know it. That said if I have loot (anything of value of around 500g) my mind values it as the Queen's greatest treasure and I do all I can (running right to the red zone if need be) to keep it from the hands of her enemies! Insane? Yes, I'm sure many see it that way. What can I say?
While discussing it with my husband we came up with the idea that if we still get rep for doing (completing) our voyage, I would be more willing to risk the loss by engaging rather than fleeing. It seems my mind puts the Queen's treasure on the rep rather than the gold. She has lots of gold ;) .
I'd like to add my two cents as I'm not sure if you've heard what a few people reckon the problem with the OP suggestion is. Voyage = rep, loot = gold. Ok. What about the people (such as myself) who aren't interested in gold? Suddenly the loot is worthless (or almost) after voyage complete appears. The loot has GOT to have some rep associated with it, otherwise this change would create more problems than it solves. The better solution is to have bonus rep, on 'voyage complete', and leave loot rewards as they are currently. I can expand if you like but I made quite a more detailed post about it with numbered points concerning this, it was either last page or the one before I think...
I was asked what me and my husband discussed and so I replied to that. I also said that I liked what others have suggested as well as I didn't read everything for obvious reasons. My saying I'd like something like this put in some way allows for your variation as well as others. Like others have posted I would just like to be able to PvE without so much fear of it being all for naught.
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@touchdown1504 @AngryCoconut16 @I-Am-Lost-77
You want my argument in a nutshell? Here it is:
The issue this suggestion is trying to address - mitigating loss (particularly for casual players who don't have a lot of time) - is not one of game design it is one of player choice.
This is an open world game that is designed to allow the player to make any number of choices and develop any number of strategies. The player has complete control over how they manage their time and investment in the game - those decisions are up to the player. Not every decision will lead to success, not every decision will be efficient, some will result in failure - that is the very nature of an open world game with so much freedom for the player to make decisions. And, as a wise man recently said:
We have all made decisions, or plans in our life that didn't work out. The difference between success and failure is realizing when you need to make a change. Swallowing your pride, and doing what is necessary to succeed.
Truer words were never spoken. So, there is no need to lessen the risk, decrease the paranoia, or otherwise diminish or water down the devs' vision when, given the multitude of options available to the player in the game currently, one can swallow one's pride and do what is necessary to succeed.
One choice, in particular, could help to mitigate loss... and the devs mention it in the article cited so many times in this thread. Go to an outpost during a voyage and drop off some of your loot... they put many of them all over the map to give you that choice... they even don't require you to drop it off at a particular one for GH/OoS, to increase your options.
I don't want to mitigate time loss. I want the game to encourage a player to do the things in it. They have a friggin Mysterious Cheerleader saying, aye get level 5, yo get level 10. But then doesn't do anything when you get those milestones. It puts up a fanfare when voyage completes but you don't get anything then either. This p****s me off. I also think if you did get reputation when you get the voyage complete fanfare, it would promote a better gameplay experience and better rewards for pvpers and promote people to finish voyages instead of dumping them when they don't have the rewards they like, such as gold animals or x maps with 4+ chests.
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@lotrmith just a number but 50% of loot value on completion. You think people will leave 2/3 of their possible rep and all gold behind? That’s ridiculous
You think anyone will care about thieving when they could dig up loot for an extra 50% value?
You think players won't complain even more on the rare occasion they sink and run out of time to complete a voyage? Or that they won't have time to complete a voyage in the first place?
@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Okay @entspeak now you are being ridiculous. You are smart enough to know what is meant by "Time Invested". INVESTED means you did something toward progression...as in a voyage, or a shipwreck, or a fort, or whatever is planned in the updates. This is EXACTLY what I meant earlier when I said the way you try to selectively pick apart people's conversations. You knew what was meant. time INVESTED. Shooting chickens, or goofing off at the pub is hardly time invested (except in fun) toward progression. Here, just for you, I will now call it "Time Invested Toward Progression" or "TITP" for short. Come on man.
Fair enough, you did say "for the time invested". It was clear, in context, that you meant time invested toward progressing. So, I take that back.
However, you are only referring to time invested toward PvE progression. That's a problem, because PvE is not the only way a player invests time toward progression. It is also currently possible to log off having gained nothing for your time toward progression if you engaged in PvP for your short play session. Are you arguing that the time invested toward progression for a PvP player is of less value and, so, it's okay for them to play a session and come away with nothing to show for it? Again... open world game here, choose your adventure, choose how you wish to progress.
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
Im not 100 percent sure what you mean. I say, if I get like 10 percent of a level when I finish my voyage, and then I get sunk and robbed because I was out finishing my voyage, then the change we are proposing worked on all fronts. I'm much more happy with the way the game works, I got some rep and im playing a dope pirate game where I can steal people's stuff.
First, this is the first I'm hearing of a 10% bonus... the talk here has been 25-50% which is significantly higher.
Second, there are players who have been actively participating in this thread in support of this idea because they lost 80% of their potential reputation for their entire play session to PvP loss. The one I specifically referred to said his cousin quit playing the game after that. But, a 10% bonus won't make that guy play again... because, if he lost all the loot to PvP... that would amount to an 88% loss of potential reputation - which is worse. With a 25% bonus, a player who loses all of their loot for a voyage to PvP still loses 80% of the potential reputation for the voyage. Sure, you're guaranteeing some reward, but not enough to keep people from rage quitting.
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
I don't want to mitigate time loss. I want the game to encourage a player to do the things in it. They have a friggin Mysterious Cheerleader saying, aye get level 5, yo get level 10. But then doesn't do anything when you get those milestones. It puts up a fanfare when voyage completes but you don't get anything then either. This p****s me off. I also think if you did get reputation when you get the voyage complete fanfare, it would promote a better gameplay experience and better rewards for pvpers and promote people to finish voyages instead of dumping them when they don't have the rewards they like, such as gold animals or x maps with 4+ chests.
But mitigating time loss is what this thread is intended to address. The Voyage Complete just lets you know you can now choose another voyage - that's all that "fanfare" is for.
It doesn't promote better rewards for PvP'ers... PvP'ers will then always lag behind PvE'ers with regard to rewards for their time and investment in progression. Why? Because if an attacker loses in a PvP confrontation, they get nothing. But, if the defender loses, they still get a bonus. And, insult to injury, if the defender wins they get the loot rewards AND the bonus, while the attacker would only get the loot rewards. This throws things way out whack in an open world where you are supposed to have the freedom to choose how to progress. Rather than not encouraging one choice or the other, but leaving that decision to players, the game itself will be promoting PvE over PvP. Why engage in PvP when you're guaranteed 25-50% more return on your time and investment if you just do PvE? The only people attacking anyone will be those who engage in PvP for fun and with no eye toward progression. But, the game is currently designed to allow you to progress for PvP... not just mindless fun. This suggestion just reduces PvP to mindless fun... and so, people will do it only when they aren't interested in progressing. Chest for chest, skull for skull, PvE will become the most rewardable way to progress.
@entspeak Absolutely not! As mentioned before I firmly believe that reputation should be rewarded for engaging in ship battles/PvP. I have always maintained, and still maintain, no one should ever log out (under TITP LOL) empty handed.
Look, it makes absolute zero sense (to me at least) How the system works. Hang on before you jump into what the devs "intended". I understand HOW it works, and the WHY behind it (physical objects and all that jazz) it just makes zero sense is what I am saying. Like I have mentioned too many times... Who would really have a better "Reputation"? The guy who turned in a treasure chest and three chickens? Or the one that defeated the Kraken?
It seems (to me) that rewarding people for what they do, for "creating their story" grants a bigger incentive to actually be a part of the broader story. I get what Rare was trying to achieve here. They want people to NOT worry about Reputation and Gold, or the grind to Legend. They want people to just play and enjoy. And in many cases that is exactly what some people are doing. But there is human nature. Competitive human nature. They created a goal line, a finish line so to speak, so people are rushing toward it. Perhaps Reputation should not even exist? Maybe just gold, you choose to purchase a new eye patch, or your next promotion? Attaching the reputation to a physical entity makes no sense. Reputation is not a tangible thing, AND reputation goes both ways. Now you know why I resort to calling reputation experience points, because it is not Reputation at all. It does not measure what someone actually did to become a legend. It measures how many packages you were able to deliver (at this point, Hungering Seas may change that).
So, you hear (or read rather) comments all over the place about "there is nothing to do"..."the grind sucks"...."players are toxic"..."griefers"...."care bears" the list goes on. I believe (my belief) that a system based on awarding reputation at "VC" or for completing a task (riddle, skeleton kill, whatever) would incentivize two things. 1st- More people would be doing the PvE aspects of the game. Thus more loot on ships. More exploration on islands. More doing that whole ...create your story bit. 2nd- It would increase the risk vs. reward on both sides of the equation. Now both attacker and defender have something to lose. More PvE oriented folks would leave the edge and engage more often. (I know for a fact I would)More PvP, PvP oriented players=happier. No total loss on an engagement, more PvE players=happier. Everyone happy...NO, we all know that is impossible. Will chests get left behind? Yes, they do now. So what? Who really cares if the cheap loot gets left behind. What does that matter? Anyhow, my take on all of it.
Finally, I wouldn't sweat it. I doubt there will be a change to awarding reputation early or for accomplishing tasks. If anything they will implement new ways to earn rep. I am not a coder, but I think it is safe to assume that adding rep awards to kills, pvp battles, kraken win, fort win, etc. would be quite the under taking. Where as moving rep to the "VC" screen seems like a small fix, or a band aid for the interim until a system could be sorted out. My bottom line is, the system now sucks, simple as that. It encourages game play that goes against the "fun" that this was marketed as. I will use myself as an example. I sail the edge now, period. I will not under any circumstances allow someone to get so much as a foul skull from me. Why? Because the risk vs. rewards is out of whack (IMO). So, if my time is wasted, so will who ever's that chases me down. Simple as that. If my reputation was intact, or there was some kind of actual experience progression that I had received obtaining the foul skull...then it would be game on, cannonballs flying. As it stands now, total loss for me = total loss for you. That is definitely not fun for anyone. I am by far not the only person running the red sea! go sail around the edge a couple times and tell me what you see? Does your server seem "empty" go check around Mermaid's Hideaway. Not what the devs wanted I am sure, but their current system has caused it!
Anyhow @entspeak no hard feelings toward you. I know I have been harsh at you. Anytime you just want to have a conversation I am all for it. just keep the condescension out of it, and we are all good.
EDIT: Sorry, I have a bad habit of re-reading and editing. Is there a word that starts with "S" that means progression? I want to fix our new acronym!
Maybe what could help this issue to some extent is to have additional rewards that are given for completing quests and sinking ships. An idea would be achievement based items. Dig up 200 chests and you unlock a new skin and sink 50 ships and unlock a blunderbuss or whatever. So if you lose the chest you still build toward something. And something that doesn't have a negative effect on other players. Pvp based ones to encourage players to try PVP and quest based ones to encourage PVE.
Or a more extreme version would be every now and again you have the chance of digging up or a skelly dropping an article of clothing or sinking a ship drops something that once looted can't be stolen.
Of course I mean on top of the current system. Not as a replacement.@urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@rp-slayer-2 don't voyage companies already give you cosmetics for having rep with them? Surely I'd love more of those.
Yes. But that's rep based. I'm talking dig up chest adds toward dig up 200 chests unlocks this skin. Etc.
@rp-slayer-2 Would be interesting if there were loot drops (I can't count the times it would have been nice for a skeleton to drop a banana). But this progress promotions. It negates the reputation portion all together, it also devalues gold more than it already is...(which is exactly what the micro transactions will do LOL)
None the less getting rewarded stuff like that would be cool! Especially at the factions. I was always wondering why the factions don't have a "Full Set" so to speak.
Even just a single set of gear that is obtainable without rep but by actions. Kill this many skelly for the gloves, sink this many ships for the boots or something that doesn't rely on bringing in the treasure. Rare says it wants people to play the way they want...what if they just want to sink ships and don't care about treasure. Or explore and kill random skellies. They get a cool skin for their trouble after doing it so much.
@entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@graiis said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
I don't want to mitigate time loss. I want the game to encourage a player to do the things in it. They have a friggin Mysterious Cheerleader saying, aye get level 5, yo get level 10. But then doesn't do anything when you get those milestones. It puts up a fanfare when voyage completes but you don't get anything then either. This p****s me off. I also think if you did get reputation when you get the voyage complete fanfare, it would promote a better gameplay experience and better rewards for pvpers and promote people to finish voyages instead of dumping them when they don't have the rewards they like, such as gold animals or x maps with 4+ chests.
But mitigating time loss is what this thread is intended to address. The Voyage Complete just lets you know you can now choose another voyage - that's all that "fanfare" is for.
It doesn't promote better rewards for PvP'ers... PvP'ers will then always lag behind PvE'ers with regard to rewards for their time and investment in progression. Why? Because if an attacker loses in a PvP confrontation, they get nothing. But, if the defender loses, they still get a bonus. And, insult to injury, if the defender wins they get the loot rewards AND the bonus, while the attacker would only get the loot rewards. This throws things way out whack in an open world where you are supposed to have the freedom to choose how to progress. Rather than not encouraging one choice or the other, but leaving that decision to players, the game itself will be promoting PvE over PvP. Why engage in PvP when you're guaranteed 25-50% more return on your time and investment if you just do PvE? The only people attacking anyone will be those who engage in PvP for fun and with no eye toward progression. But, the game is currently designed to allow you to progress for PvP... not just mindless fun. This suggestion just reduces PvP to mindless fun... and so, people will do it only when they aren't interested in progressing. Chest for chest, skull for skull, PvE will become the most rewardable way to progress.
It's not just about saving peoples time, it could be a side benefit to this change, but I think that if it didn't benefit the game in any other way, they shouldn't do it.Yes it would provide better rewards for pvpers. If I go to an island with 4 chests on it and then I have an island right next to me with a riddle to finish my voyage, right now I'm going to cancel my voyage and go to an Outpost. With the change, I'd go to the riddle island to finish my voyage, and my boat full of treasure will be out on the Sea ready for robbery for another 15 minutes, and I'll have 1 more chest on my ship. I've had 2 or 3 extra riddles I've ditched before, now that's 30-45 more minutes. Noone who does PvP is going to feel forced into doing pve just because pve gives a bit of rep when you finish stuff, if they felt a super drive to get rewards they wouldn't be going hard in PvP anyway, that's where the efficiency argument was coming in, it's easy to tell you probably won't get more rewards for PvP as it works currently, as many have said. I think it should probably get its own faction, but that would make people who PvP get PvP faction rewards plus what they steal??!!! Oh no!!! Now who will ever pve??
@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@i-am-lost-77 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:
@lotrmith just a number but 50% of loot value on completion. You think people will leave 2/3 of their possible rep and all gold behind? That’s ridiculous
You think anyone will care about thieving when they could dig up loot for an extra 50% value?
You think players won't complain even more on the rare occasion they sink and run out of time to complete a voyage? Or that they won't have time to complete a voyage in the first place?
I don’t think people care about thieveing now. I attack players for the fun of it. the loot is something extra. if I get into a fight it’s usually because they had no treasure to start. Otherwise they run away and I usually don’t pursue because it takes too long to catch people.
Let them complain. they will be in the minority if a 50% reward for not turning in loot isn’t enough for them. And 50% is just an example it can be lower or higher
@angrycoconut16 I understand you perfectly, but even so, I think that getting to sell the chests (without receiving experience) is reason enough to defend them: money to buy cosmetics, animals, etc.
I think this would solve two things:
- I would give more importance to the realization of missions and that many users are not just dedicated to bother and steal.
- Fraud in experience increase would be avoided (like twitch boy)
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