And why is it aweful
So whats with the hit detection?
@pithyrumble What your saying is understandable but it still doesn’t explain why over the last year we’ve witnessed hit-registration be seen as nothing but a “known issue” and we’ve been lied to countless times by the developers who state that they are working hard fixing the problem when in reality, they haven’t made any improvement to it at all.
But it’s ok right? As long as people are feeding Rare their hard earned cash, the devs are satisfied and have no reason to actually spend time fixing their game.
Your post makes no sense whatsoever.
You are completely ignoring an actual problem that is known but not resolved for years.
There's a lot of information heading back and forth to the servers and I don't have a problem with it.
The fact you don't have a problem with the problem does not make the problem any less problematic.
As a matter of fact, neglecting/ignoring all kinds of problems is a very serious issue. And I'm not even talking about SoT right now, this has been a very serious global problem for some time now.
You want super crisp fps action? Play something that isn't keeping track of a huge map and everything on it.
This has to be one of the poorest recommendations I've ever laid my eyes upon...
@pithyrumble said in So whats with the hit detection?:
I don't have a problem with it.
And I do. I don't go out of my way to PvP in the game but I do enjoy PvP in this game. However, I also enjoy a balanced and fair environment. Relying on ANY RNG elements to win a fight is borderline stupid and annoying. Hitreg is an RNG element in this case because you have no idea if your shots are actually hitting or not due to how often hitreg becomes a problem in fights.
It's a major problem and will be unless Rare does either two things:
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Actually fix it.
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Turn the game into a PvE title because they cannot fix it (not what I want).
I'm probably gonna uninstall the game at this rate until this is fixed.
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@jusey1z That would assume the problem only comes up in pvp. A few nights ago, I fought against a chicken that took four flintlock shots to kill!
@conceitedox8550 said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@jusey1z That would assume the problem only comes up in pvp. A few nights ago, I fought against a chicken that took four flintlock shots to kill!
I know it still happens against AI, but you also don't have to worry about losing a fight against most AI.
@boogyghost101 said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@pithyrumble What your saying is understandable but it still doesn’t explain why over the last year we’ve witnessed hit-registration be seen as nothing but a “known issue” and we’ve been lied to countless times by the developers who state that they are working hard fixing the problem when in reality, they haven’t made any improvement to it at all.
But it’s ok right? As long as people are feeding Rare their hard earned cash, the devs are satisfied and have no reason to actually spend time fixing their game.
things take time to do
and hitreg is much better now than what it was back when i started
hitting people in the water is now actually possible and hitting people standing still interacting with something registers most of the time as opposed to almost never
so infact they are working on it and you fail to give credit where credit is due
but hey it needs to be fixed when you want it to be fixed damn rare cant do magic who'da thunk
@boogyghost101 that doesn't mean they are not working hard!
and you make it look like you have to feed rare with money. It's not WoW with monthly subscription lol. but yeah, Rare is sooooooo greedy, sure.Feedback is that hit reg is awful.... And the suggestion on how to fix it? Where is it? I can't see your insights and suggestions about how to fix it. Usually I only see "FIX HITREG" "ITS EZ TO FIX", yet no-one gives a helping hand, just complains about it.
@doomscorp said in So whats with the hit detection?:
its always been like that from the very beggining and with every update it gets a little worse. rare said they dont know how to fix it. i say they should get someone from outside of rare to try and fix it.
When did rare say this??? Whats your source?
I've heard the opposite that they are working hard to fix it
@thejoegrizzly said in So whats with the hit detection?:
And why is it aweful
"That's bait." - Max Rockatanski
"It's a trap!" - Admiral Ackbar@uzugijin said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@boogyghost101 that doesn't mean they are not working hard!
and you make it look like you have to feed rare with money. It's not WoW with monthly subscription lol. but yeah, Rare is sooooooo greedy, sure.Feedback is that hit reg is awful.... And the suggestion on how to fix it? Where is it? I can't see your insights and suggestions about how to fix it. Usually I only see "FIX HITREG" "ITS EZ TO FIX", yet no-one gives a helping hand, just complains about it.
👆 this...
Join Insider. Learn how to code. Go to England. Work for Rare for pay? Fix hitreg. Become an ACTUAL PIRATE LEGEND
@doomscorp said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@jollyolsteamed many different people from many different places
Then why did you say rare said it themselves?
Sea of Thieves is a projectile based game, instead of hit-scan. Almost every projectile based game comes into the issue of hit registration issues when servers are having a heavy load put onto them, especially in an open world game. As someone who’s watched development and knows people who develop, their struggle is unreal and is unfair to say they don’t know what they’re doing. It’s frustrating, but I’d rather have content come out than have them be stuck on something for half a year. It’s depressing to say that but that’s the life of development.
All of what @seamobboss said and more.
I have shared this before but just to state that i actually know a thing or two about how code and networking works, i myself am a software engineer.
Here are 2 reasons why hit registration isnt working as well as we all want:
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Reason 1:
the game is not hit scan, meaning an actual object travels from your weapon to an opposing player/aiThe moment you fire a weapon in sot 2 main things happen, but behind the scenes there is more gruntwork:
1 your client sends a command to the server stating you fired your weapon.
2 your client itself calculates the path of the bullet
So what gruntwork you mught ask? Well lets elaborate (1.* are server side actions, 2.* are client side actions):
1.1 server receives the command
1.2 server sends out an event to all players in range of you that you have fired a shot
1.3 server calculates the path your projectile will travel based on the coordinates it has on record for you (x,y,z and view angles)
1.4 server checks if during the bullet travel time a player is at any point colliding with your projectile (the actual projectile not just the path)
1.5 IF the server thinks someone or something has collided with it it will remove health from your player instance on the server
1.5.2 server sends out a command to the player that it feels has collided and says “yo you got hit with a bullet from weapon x” where x can be flintlock, EoR or blunderbuss, in the latter it will also state how many pellets.
1.5.3 (not actually server side but on the other players client) client receives the command and it will show the resulting damage in the hud
1.6 IF the server thinks nothing has been hit nothing important really happens2.1 client sends command to server
2.2 client calculates and shows bullet traveling
2.3 IF client thinks there is a collision between your projectile and a enemy it will show hitmarker
2.4 IF client doesnt think there is a collision nothing of importance really happensNow these are the global and probably simplified events occuring when you click that button to shoot your weapon, and the issues start accuring at points 1.3/4 and 2.2/3.
There is two different calculations going on, and the base data of these (player positions mainly) can have slight differences, they might only be slight but can have a big impact.
Here is where latency comes in and if the server thinks you, the enemy or both are in a different position then what you see on screen then the hitmarker and bullet path you see are off from what the server says it is. This then results in one of a couple situations:
- False Positive: you saw a hitmarker, but the server said no hit occurred and thus no damage dealt.
- False Negative: you didnt see a hitmarker, but the server did register a hit and thus damage got dealt
Then there is the risk of packets getting lost underway, which could result in you seemingly dying from one hit, what happens here is that the server sent out a message that you received damage but it your client never receiving it. But the server still record the hit you took on health and thus server side your health is low(er) then another hit registers and server sends a message: “you’re dead” and your client says “ok” and you become a more ghostly version of yourself
(There is more reasons instakills could happen but this post is already becoming massive already, just note, health is managed server side and thus not susceptible to any cheats/hacks or whatever)
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Reason 2:
The game has ALOT of fully physics enabled objects that are freely traversable which but a big amount of “stress” on the servers.The server has alot to keep track of:
1 up to 6 ships per server and there inherent data like:
1.1 the x/y/z coordinates, its pitch, yaw and roll
1.2 the individual inventories on the ship
1.3 angles and loaded state of cannons
1.4 the players positions on the ship
1.5 any loot hoarded on the ship
1.6 sail angles, sail heights
1.7 damage state of masts, capstan and wheel
1.8 damage states of all hole positions and the size of any present holes
1.9 water fill level
1.10 the “being on fire” state of quite a few positions on the ship
1.11 ships speed
1.12 ships turning status (is it turning left/right and at what rate)All this information has to be stored, updated and communicated back and forth between client and server. So in the case of 2 duo sloops fighting the server has to keep 4 clients updated. Have you never noticed that when you come back from the ferry and your ship still has a damaged mast or capstan for instance you hear the sound que that an object just got damaged ? This is basicly your client getting the information from the server and updating the states for your “viewing pleasure” accordingly. Because your client is blissfully unaware of what your ship is doing when you are on the ferry since you are not in range anymore.
Throw in the fact that there are multiple interactables on the ship (cannons,barrels, capstan, wheel, loot etc etc etc) and that especially in fights alot of projectiles get thrown about (cannonballs and bullets) this can stress a server pretty badly.
(There is probably more things to keep track of, this was just some that i know for sure that have to be)
————————————————
Then i hear a quite a few people
saying:but what about game xyz, they dont have the same issues. This means Rare Devs must be bad at their jobs
Well no, every implementation of code/communication will have its own challenges. And also i dont know many or even any at all that have a combination of the above (non hit scan + big physics enabled moving objects that are freely traversable)
TL;DR: its a REALLY complex subject
@reapinglegion Because new content will ALWAYS beat QoL updates. It's the content that brings in and back players into the game. And issues (such as getting bored, because that is also an issue of a game for various reasons) maybe the reason why the leave. Be it new Tall Tales or tools, voyages, etc., people are always more excited about new stuff coming into the SoT than small QoL updates.
PvP is only an aspect of the game and the game is kinda a simple one with cheap solutions, but Rare balances the simplicity with visuals and story-telling which is their strongest attribute. Of course they gonna put emphasis on new content and focus on the evolution of the game-world to give us the best experience they can possibly provide at the moment. And it works!
Note:
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This game will NEVER be the next CoD nor it wants to be. It's a silly game, we love it, only those have problems with it who take it way too seriously and doesn't have the ability to understand that it's a casual game. (Though, i'm kinda afraid that the next PvP event, the Festival of Fishing, will shift the meta once and for all.)
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Once you get the game, you don't need to pay Rare with your REAL money.
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@thejoegrizzly Call me bold, but this comes from a Triumphant Seadog (I've gotten first place in over 400 matches!) who has spent countless hours in Arena, the heart of the hitreg argument.
I have not noticed any hitreg problems in Adventure since the Shrouded Spoils.
I have not noticed any hitreg problems in Arena since Arena 2.0 released.
I have spent countless hours fighting in Adventure and Arena, and I swear on the Pirate Lord, this problem is not there. If it is, it must be incredibly situational and rare, because I do not experience this ever, even with how much I play this game.
I am absolutely willing to discuss this in a civilised manner.
@klutchxking518 for me its really on and off, somehow its seems more noticeable/pertinent when im in the water with an enemy but even outside of that.
I have also noticed it the other way around, bullet hitting me smack in the face and not getting any damage.
I do feel that it is situational, and stuff that has to do with it (for as far i have noticed ) are things like:
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amount of ships/players in close procimity (bigger ships have a bigger imapct)
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amount of loot in the vicinity (on player boats and most of all floating in the water)
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@jollyolsteamed because apparently rare said that to the public I’m just being told that they said that to everyone.
@callmebackdraft Like I said, I've experienced these, but not in ages. The few, and I mean few times I have since then were in those exact situations you listed. The hitreg is at its worst when there are multiple ships close together and a lot of action is happening. Even then, how often do you have 3 or more ships close together in adventure?
In arena, I understand why it happens more often, (a brunt of the complaints come from tdmers) but even then, it is not as bad as people say...
It hurts my feelings when people call the game a buggy mess and hitreg is an argument they bring up. It gives the game a bad name for an issue that hardly shows up.
@klutchxking518 i experience it personally almost every session, but that is partially to blame on me and my crew itself, we hoard loot (and i mean HOARD).
We sail for hours and only sell at the end, it saves alot of time since we are all level capped and sell everything at reapers with a harpoon rowboat.
But what we notice is:
- the more loot on board the higher the ping
- the more loot on board the higher the risk of long loading black screens (especially in combat)
Last session last night we went for about 5~5.5 hours and we had 675.000 gold, didnt keep track of doubloons.
The amount of items we had on board was quite high and the resulting impact equally as high ping difference of 80~100 before and during selling and 40~50 straight after.
I always see it like this:
Yes my shot should have registered and its annoying it didnt, however the opposing party is dealing with the same and i know for a fact that hit reg issues have saved me about as many times as they screwed me
Hit registration is server side not something that Rare can just FIX with some new code.
Hit registration has been a constant issue since Rare transferred the game to the Microsoft azure servers and made everything server side. For those that don't know the Azure servers are bad.
There was already a huge strain on the servers around the time Shrouded Spoils update came out. The game changing the mechanic of loot to instead of being scarce to being EVERYWHERE, they even increased the loot drop for some and even changed certain things spawn, like barrels in the water. They used to spawn at a distance like sunken ships. You would see birds and would determine that it was barrels or a ship and go to it.
Now barrels load in periodically while sailing, and not only for you, for every other ship.
The game also doesn't remove rowboats left behind or used out in the world, so those are constantly being rendered.
Ships now currently have TONS of lot loot on board which the servers have to render and calculate.
Few times I've fought ships where my latency would just SHOOT up. Had no idea why. Sink the ship and there was so much loot that it was glitching in the water and everytime we got near it, the lag would clip us.
The guns are projectile based. It has travel time and actually has to hit. So the game has to calculate ship movement, wave movement, and ontop latency.
Another issue which is probably a big factor as well is that this game doesn't have latency mitigation like almost ALL FPS games do. I don't think latency mitigation is the term but basically, you ever play a FPS game and when you die you see on the kill cam that the player who killed you got you before you got behind the wall, but on your screen you were WELL behind it??
That type of stuff is done intentionally.
The game is mitigation the differences in latency between players to make it more fair. You are behind the wall on your screen, on the enemy screen you are not behind the wall. You see as much on the kill cam. This is done so that latency differences are mitigated so that players with higher latency's won't have to play at a disadvantage.
Sea of Thieves DOES NOT have this. Proven by the fact that sometimes when you shoot someone and you know you missed because the shot was too far in front or behind but the player still got hit and dies.
Thats because the character model or hit box wasn't where the enemy player character model actually was.
Example -
The enemy player is running across your screen, you shoot but you didn't lead enough so the bullet CLEARLY missed and went behind the character but the enemy still dies. Thats because on YOUR screen the character model is farther ahead then what is on the enemies screen. The hit box itself is taking time to catch up to the model.
Actually if I remember correctly this used to be a HUGE issue back in counter strike source. Where character hit boxes would lag behind character models. It was like when the enemy would run around the corner and you shot them in the face but they didn't die. That was because the character model was in front of you but the actual HIT box was still behind the corner catching up.
If you want it fixed then Rare will have to get better servers which will cost extra money so are you willing to pay a monthly subscription??
Or
Rare will have to reduce the load on the servers by removing tons of loot and making it harder to get loot and removing almost everything they added. They already reduced the ship count from 6 to 5.
Increasing every ones game file size again so that everything is calculated client side like it used to be in the beginning versus now making updates larger than they are now.
@pithyrumble said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@uzugijin said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@boogyghost101 that doesn't mean they are not working hard!
and you make it look like you have to feed rare with money. It's not WoW with monthly subscription lol. but yeah, Rare is sooooooo greedy, sure.Feedback is that hit reg is awful.... And the suggestion on how to fix it? Where is it? I can't see your insights and suggestions about how to fix it. Usually I only see "FIX HITREG" "ITS EZ TO FIX", yet no-one gives a helping hand, just complains about it.
👆 this...
Join Insider. Learn how to code. Go to England. Work for Rare for pay? Fix hitreg. Become an ACTUAL PIRATE LEGEND
What a stupid post. "JuSt LiTeRaLlY fIx It YoUrSeLf"
OR, Rare could fix the game that we paid them for, you know, because it's literally their job already.
Combat not working properly isn't some cute quirk, it's a bug that's been getting worse over the last year. @JollyOlsteamed is a known concern troll who comes into all of these threads to simp for Rare and pretend like hitreg has been getting better, but he doesn't know what he's talking about. Hitreg worked much better in anniversary update, and has steadily gotten worse.
Bad hitreg and unstable servers are holding this game back in very serious ways for both PVP AND PVE.
@xultanis-dragon said in So whats with the hit detection?:
If you want it fixed then Rare will have to get better servers which will cost extra money so are you willing to pay a monthly subscription??
The game already has a AAA pricepoint, a MTX store, AND a Battlepass. If they're not very well into the green already in this project, then someone is cooking the books; they have revenue streams covered. They can afford to get daddy Microsoft to put them on better servers.
@xultanis-dragon lol, sorry dude but azure servers aren't bad in the slightest...
And you simply blaming it on them shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Same thing with them “moving stuff serverside”, all games should and are moving to that model (if they havent already) want to know why ? Because it is alot harder/impossible to affect server side logic handling with changes to your client (hacks etc)
Are they the best, maybe maybe not. But the same can be said about any cloud/SAAS platform
To add further context, Azure hosts some of the world most mission critical (micro)services (way more important then a bullet in a game hitting or not and not only that but there is a reason why it is also used for HALO’s services and most if not all of Tencent’s games and services
Azure servers are garbage broski.
If you don't believe me, look at the other Microsoft multiplayer games that are having hit registration issues. Sea of thieves isn't the only one. Look at any game that is currently from xbox or running on xbox azure servers. They are ALL having hit registration issues.
I don't think cloud services have been optimized for gaming or maybe cloud services are just horrible for hosting gaming servers period.
@comrade-molly said in So whats with the hit detection?:
@xultanis-dragon said in So whats with the hit detection?:
If you want it fixed then Rare will have to get better servers which will cost extra money so are you willing to pay a monthly subscription??
The game already has a AAA pricepoint, a MTX store, AND a Battlepass. If they're not very well into the green already in this project, then someone is cooking the books; they have revenue streams covered. They can afford to get daddy Microsoft to put them on better servers.
The price point of the game doesn't mean that the game is making money. Not everyone uses the MTX store and not everyone buys the battle pass.
The battlepass is seasonal and is a 3 month run.
Saying you have the "money" just because a few players buy things here and there isn't consistent. Monthly subscriptions were so much better for gaming then freaking free to play nonsense. Games that had a player base could focus on making the game better, not trying to figure out NEW ways to make money.
Monthly subscription is guaranteed revenue as long as there are players. The amount of revenue is directly proportional to the number or players.
MTX and Battlepass' can be a fraction or the player base, half of the player base. Only if they like what they see or if they have the money to spend on it.
Halo, whilst halo 3 had some issues they mostly got fixed.
And guess what they run on Azure.
Then there is the multitude of tencent fames and services.
You literally seem to have no idea what you are talking about and seem to be suffering from the dunning kruger effect.
I dont mean any disrespect but i actually work with a multitude of cloud platforms/online servers
Cloud in its core means nothing more then a service hosted online on one or multiple servers
Meaning ANY game with dedicated servers are “cloud” based.
And thats something thats been done for years/decades now.
The thing with stuff like AWS or MSA or even Googles cloud platform is that those companies have the money to built giant datacenters around the globe and put in development time to increase implementation efficiency.
At its core both AWS/MSA/Google in this case provide nothing more or less then a server for a company to host their services on.
Online games can never fully prevent hit registration issues. It happens everywhere and you can literally search this for any game: “arbitrary game name hit registration” and you will find examples.
Anyway sea of thieves specific issues i have already stated earlier in this thread, the one issue you can never fully solve is latency, for any data to ga from a client to a server or from a server to a client time has to pass (this is just real world physics)
And some internet connections are better then others, meaning each player has an effect on this.
@xultanis-dragon You dont know what you talking about. Azure is best cloud out there.
There are no "Azure servers" its a cloud where you build own servers, or use Azure services.
Hitreg is not Azure problem its a problem with implementing Unreal Engine. The UE forum is filled with people complaining about hit registration issues.
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