PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI)

@orchideelamm921 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@wagstr sagte in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@orchideelamm921

If somebody so vehemently supports the idea of "the author is dead" once the game is in their hands (which is an odd and curious notion in itself) then logic dictates that they would not then expect the author to have to change the game or modify it in any way just to please them after purchase right? Because they're dead..

Did you use your new onyx shovel to dig that hole?

Are you really this unfamiliar with literary theory or are you just trolling? It just means that the intentions of an author don't have any bearing on the audience's reception of the work.

Rare is a company. Trying to make money. So it's in their best interest to open the game to as many players as possible - and to make sure they have a good time! Because right now a lot of people don't and stop playing. Won't get invested in the game enough to go for the microtransactions. So it's in the company's best interest to make sure as many people as possible love and play the game. Core audiences don't bring in the sweet, sweet continuous cash flow. Casuals do.

And games that sunk for "catering to the casuals" have yet to be named.

Except, they literally already have your money, dont they.

Look, I could understand and would agree completely if you just wanted something akin to more accessibility settings to enable you to control the game better, within the developers vision.

Thats a discussion myself, and I'm sure many others, including the devs, would be willing to have.

But you aren't.

Genuine question, do you often play a lot of PvP in games?

Or do you typically avoid it?

@robrechtve I would argue that rare got lazy and didnt optimise the fidelity to performance ratio properly.

The opt out crowd is but a vocal minority.

Anyway wont xbox one users be at a performance disadvantage again when the game is played via backwards compatibility on a series x ?

Doesn't seem as cut and dry as you are making it out to be.

Weird .

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@dlchief58 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

As an example, Dark Souls series would not have the success it did if they caved and made an easy mode, in fact it would lose its audience. Same ideal applies here.

This is pure conjecture on your part, it's not a fact. Heck, actual evidence from games that were previously PvPvE that added a PvE only mode contradicts this.

As, by the way, does the fact that there's a whole community dedicated to modding accessibility features into Dark Souls.

LOL, dense and in denial as usual. Where oh where is the "facts" backing up YOUR claim? Hmmmm? You are quick to go to that same cop-out yet NEVER supply anything backing up your claims...not once.

It is well known (if you paid a bit attention, or had the capability of admitting you were wrong) that those that enjoy Dark Souls would abandon the series if they did indeed abandon their vision of the game of being extremely difficult yet fair. And you have nothing disproving this either other than playing the contrarian whenever a valid point is brought up that invalidates your narrative.

@hipsu555 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@combatxkitty sagte in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

The PvP in this game is a breeze and easy to avoid. I really do not see what the major issue is.

Last time a galleon followed me nearly 1 hour and 15 minutes before they given up the chase. Even if I was getting away and it did not end in a Pvp-fight (which I would have clearly lost 1vs4), it was still an terrible experience and total time-waste.

And stuff like this happens quite often, even if you watch out and avoid any contact you will spent many hours just driving away from someone and thats just annoying. So its not that easy to avoid PvP, unless you have endless time, which most people dont have.

Well first off congrats , you won that one. For me chases are one of the most fun parts of the game. Trust me I have had ships chase me for an hour aswell. One thing me and my friend do is sail into a storm or into the volcanic area, get a skelly ship to agro on them or sail staright to end of map and then stop fast enough to not go over, we got rid of a very aggressive galleon chaser that way , they sail right off end of map lol.

Did you have treasure? If you did not you could have scuttled and if you did you could have done outpost drive bys. When I was solo I use to do that, just set wheel straight and jump off and sell. I never had much treasure on board because I would go to out posts often. Sometimes I would jump off if it was a good piece of treasure and hid it at a passing island then mermaid back.

When I was solo if I was doing something I knew would take me a long time such as a treasure dig map, I suck at those they take me an hour I would scuttle my ship. I would dig up all my treasure hide it then mermaid back, grab my sloop load up with some supplies and go get my stuff.

So anyways when you play a game like this alone expect it to not be easy. You can adapt or you can use the forum, discord and meet someone in game to team up with. A sloop duo can easily sink a galleon, I know ive done it. I met my friend at an outpost actually and we been sailing together ever since.

@orchideelamm921 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@troubled-cells sagte in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Except, they literally already have your money, dont they.

But they want even more money. They want players to sink a few meatspace coins into their premium currency, don't they? They want even more people to buy the game, but you know how many are like, "Nah, I hear bad things about the PvP"?

Of course they want more money, but your mistake was not voting with your wallet in the first place.

I was one of them. And I didn't buy the game for two years until someone persuaded me to because they wanted to play it with me. Otherwise, I never would have bought the game.

We all make mistakes with purchases, this sounds like one of them for yourself.

Look, I could understand and would agree completely if you just wanted something akin to more accessibility settings to enable you to control the game better, within the developers vision.

They will make what they think will sell best. As I said, artistic integrity is not how big studios attached to corporations do.

Of course they will, I agree, that's why after 2 years a PvE mode has not been added.

Thats a discussion myself, and I'm sure many others, including the devs, would be willing to have.

But you aren't.

No, because the problems my disability gives me can't be solved by settings and controllers. Pacifist mode, PvE only, safe zones. Those would. Or the option to opt-out of PvP. Because if you promise total freedom of playstyle (which Rare did) - you have to give people the ability to opt-out of things. Including PvP.

So now your claiming false advertisement?

Look I get it, your disability sucks, I feel for you.

I have medical issues myself, namely epilepsy, but I don't go around asking devs to cater to my medical needs, just because I may have a seizure whilst playing.

I just make sure to keep the glow sticks ready so I can at least have a personal rave whilst doing so lol

Genuine question, do you often play a lot of PvP in games?

Not a lot, but I do play at least one game regularly that is only PvP. And do you know what this game does? It makes sure win and loss are balanced. It makes sure players who lose still make progress. Less progress, but they don't go out of the encounter empty-handed.

Or do you typically avoid it?

It depends. If the world is lovely and engaging (like in ESO or in SoT), I prefer to be able to take everything in without being harried. One of my problems is that I can't easily switch between tasks - so if I'm busy figuring out a puzzle, I have trouble going into "defend the ship from other players" mode. Skellies I can deal with, hostile players? Not so much. And that is never going to get better, even with practice. And then there's going through all the radial menus in stressful situations. Dyspraxia sucks.

So with that in mind, it's fair to say you didn't really give this purchase the due diligence you should have, you was cautiously influenced and had the personal agency to still purchase the game.

This doesn't mean the game should have elements of its core vision removed in a mode to cater to medical needs.

@hipsu555 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@combatxkitty sagte in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Did you have treasure? If you did not you could have scuttled and if you did you could have done outpost drive bys.

Yes I did a fort right before, it was not alot but still didnt wanted to give it these people. And yeah I did some drive by and sold the the most expensive stuff at the outpost.

I have enough friends and we play together too, but sometimes I just like to enjoy the beauty and quietness of the game alone. For this case I would much more prefer an PvE-mode where I just can sail arround and watch the sunset without being harassed and chased down by someone. I dont care about the gold, I have enough and bought nearly everything in the game, thats why I think Pve with seperate progession (=a new pirate) would be cool because you have something to do again.

In order to keep the PvP-mode up they could add new interesting commendations for it which you cant get in PvE-mode.

Well devs are working on private servers. People can be annoying, I agree so is the world of online gaming lol. Sometimes I like to just fish and of course will have some dum dum sail by and sink our ship while yelling git gud but I dont care because there is nothing on ship anyways. Thats why fishing with a storage crate is good since if you lose the ship you lose your place to store the fish. Also me and my friend like to do commendation hunting and if someone chases in that situation we usually just scuttle since we are just out to get unlocks. So trust me Im not immune to annoying people lol so I wouldnt mind a private server to just chill in or hang out with more than three friends in.

@rowge-gaming still is a great idea.

I must say though, these countless threads for PvE, there Is a good number of them that appear just to be alt accounts, there was a similar issue with the preference discussion, with a few banned pro opt out users creating alts, and even active users creating them .

I've seen so many of these profiles with 0G and no games played on them in these kind of discussions.

It's quite sad to see.

@rowge-gaming I'm not wrong though 🤭

So theres not as many of these posts by different people as some.of the community here like to think there is, the tells are quite easy to see.

I still maintain it is sad that some individual's feel the need to do this.

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

The devs "vision" probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but after a couple of years it is clear that the vision didn't turn out the way they "envisioned" and it needs to change. This game needs private servers. There are forums posts asking for this daily and ignoring them doesn't help the game.

Also, where are the @Deckhands and why is it OK for some people to call other people "dense" with impunity in these forums?

smh

Weekly gameplay statistics say differently, game is still one of the most played games constantly (FACT) and almost always within the top 20 in any given week (FACT). Has been this way for well over a year now (FACT). The game day over day INCREASED concurrent player counts on Steam for 2 weeks or more (FACT) when most games drop off after a couple of days (FACT).

Seems the facts run counter to your claims of the game "needing" private or PvE servers. But we all know you ignore any facts that counter your narrative.

@dlchief58 said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@rowge-gaming said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

The devs "vision" probably seemed like a good idea at the time, but after a couple of years it is clear that the vision didn't turn out the way they "envisioned" and it needs to change. This game needs private servers. There are forums posts asking for this daily and ignoring them doesn't help the game.

Also, where are the @Deckhands and why is it OK for some people to call other people "dense" with impunity in these forums?

smh

Weekly gameplay statistics say differently, game is still one of the most played games constantly (FACT) and almost always within the top 20 in any given week (FACT). Has been this way for well over a year now (FACT). The game day over day INCREASED consecutive player counts on Steam for 2 weeks or more (FACT) when most games drop off after a couple of days (FACT).

Seems the facts run counter to your claims of the game "needing" private or PvE servers. But we all know you ignore any facts that counter your narrative.

Xbox Gameplay Chart: Minecraft Dungeons drops out of the top ten

Our latest Xbox Gameplay Chart shows the power of Xbox Game Pass, with No Man's Sky already having reappeared halfway up the chart. It's a different story for Minecraft Dungeons, which has already dropped out of the top 10.

Joe Neate on Twitter / X

The game is doing well especially with it now on Steam. I just love when pro PvE server posters throw out blanket statements of "the is going to die!" or "the devs vision is not working!" ,with nothing to back them up.

Lets see if you even get a response, you probably will be blocked lol.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

with nothing to back it up in response to the suggestion of PvE servers and you're never called that out means that no one needs to take you seriously, right?

Literally providing official answers from devs on the matter while you guys plug your ears and go "lalalala". Clearly you guys are the bunch that should be carefully listened to.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@combatxkitty

You do realize that the fact that anti-PvE server posters shout 'the game would die' with nothing to back it up in response to the suggestion of PvE servers and you're never called that out means that no one needs to take you seriously, right?

Actually I cant take you seriously. Maybe you get sunk too much which is why you are so bitter.

Also its not the same thing at all. I am talking about people screaming about how the game will die and blah blah blah even though the game is clearly doing well without PvE servers.

You are talking about people who suggest the game will die or not be the same if the player base is split. I personally do not think the game would die but I do think it would not be the same.

@bloodybil said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

with nothing to back it up in response to the suggestion of PvE servers and you're never called that out means that no one needs to take you seriously, right?

Literally providing official answers from devs on the matter while you guys plug your ears and go "lalalala". Clearly you guys are the bunch that should be carefully listened to.

Whats new? They say no one wants to play the game, @dlCHIEF58 provides data otherwise, crickets. They say PvE servers still have a chance we provide quotes from people who work on the game, not good enough.

@rowge-gaming I have been listening, i just disagree.

Big difference buddy.

You can still do all the things you mentioned in normal adventure.

As for toxicity, theres no place for it, even though I do enjoy in game banter myself, i would advise following joe neates instructions from one of the previous SOT news episodes.

Fallacy or not, I'm still right.

😋

@combatxkitty of course it isnt, the pre school foot stomping and hufflepuffles will continue

Weve seen this song and dance many times before.

@troubled-cells said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Weve seen this song and dance many times before.

Can be quite catchy though!

@robrechtve as you said all games die eventually.

Its inevitable, and not solely because PvE wasnt added.

But to entertain your point for a moment, thinking this is justification to shoe horn PvE in a game which in your opinion is "dying" just to entertain a very small pool of people, is a bit daft in my opinion.

It does t really add up for me buddy.

Personally I think this game has plenty of life left In it's current state.

Players come, and players go, and some return.

It's just how it goes.

I think many elements of microsofts pro consumer decisions have really done this game well, not mention other aspects like game pass.

Going back to the user with a disability that was posting, in hindsight it would have made much more sense for them to subscribe to game pass for a month to dabble in SOT instead of purchasing it outright whilst being uncertain about it, whilst also getting to try many other games In that period.

And that's not in any way a personal attack, but instead constructive criticism of someone's actions based of their complaints, before someone starts with that fallacy nonsense again lol.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Because when PvPers are constantly, indiscriminately and intentionally killing players who don't want to PvP all the time, those players don't stick around. And when those players don't stick around, eventually all you're left with is the PvPers...
And then servers turn hostile and the people who don't mind a bit of PvP, but don't like the constant hostility, will leave.
And all you're left with is a bunch of hardcore PvPers who no longer like the game because it's 'dead' and they have no one to fight but each other.

Sore losers exist in every game, if they decide to throw the towel after going through a basic principle of the game, just goes to show the game might not have been their style in the first place.

So you are telling me that instead of (hypothetically) having the PVE people trickle out, only to leave the PVP people unhappy of the playstyle balance on the seas over time, it's better to break the balance all at once and open the barn doors and let them all out immediately to accelerate the process? Quite compelling argument! "Why are you guys so much against an idea that would ruin the game for you right away instead of over it's natural lifespan?"

We've seen this happen (or rather seen this start to happen and get averted by the addition of some kind of PvE and/or Private server option) to countless games: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, (pretty much ever MMO with 'always on' PvP between UO and WoW too), Xsyon, ARK, DayZ, Rust, etc... etc...

Eve online would like to have a word with you.

Saying 'It's not dead right now' only proves that it's not yet dead right now. And a lot of that is down to the release on Steam bringing in new players. Players who, based on what happened with other PvPvE games that released on Steam and refused to provide a PvE only option, will not stick around.

"The end is nigh! the end is nigh!!!... Well.. not right now BUT IT WILL COME."

You'll notice that I'm not addressing what the people who made the game have said. That's because those 'statements' aren't exactly legally binding.

Oh we have noticed all right, those official statements seem to be awfully annoying eh? No matter how hard you guys try, you can't sweep those under the carpet. The game devs don't need a legal contract to say what they think is best for their game, and what they plan or not to do.

I've been following games long enough to know that when a developer or publisher says 'we will never do x' it means absolutely nothing. Look at how many games there are where the Devs promised they would never add micro transactions that now have tons and tons of micro transactions.

Yeah yeah yeah, devs' words never mean anything when we don't agree with them, we know.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

@combatxkitty said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):

Whats new? They say no one wants to play the game, @dlCHIEF58 provides data otherwise, crickets.

No, dude...

I am not a dude. Why must people always assume I am a dude?????

We say that pretty much all previous PvPvE games with shared worlds and 'always on' PvP had one of two things happen:

1. They eventually got a PvE only option and survived.

-or-

2. They refused to do so and died.

Because when PvPers are constantly, indiscriminately and intentionally killing players who don't want to PvP all the time, those players don't stick around. And when those players don't stick around, eventually all you're left with is the PvPers...
And then servers turn hostile and the people who don't mind a bit of PvP, but don't like the constant hostility, will leave.
And all you're left with is a bunch of hardcore PvPers who no longer like the game because it's 'dead' and they have no one to fight but each other.

We've seen this happen (or rather seen this start to happen and get averted by the addition of some kind of PvE and/or Private server option) to countless games: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, (pretty much ever MMO with 'always on' PvP between UO and WoW too), Xsyon, ARK, DayZ, Rust, etc... etc...

I will say I have played games that have PvE mode and PvPVe mode and the PvE mode you do not get all the benefits of the PvPvE mode. Higher risk stuff you can not do in them. That is the issue SOT has, it makes no sense to allow higher risk stuff to be done in complete safety. I personally do not like comparing games to other games. What is good for Rust does not mean it is good for SOT. I personally wouldnt mind a mode where you cant be killed by others and you can sail around collect items from ship wrecks, collect stuff from islands, run into the random skelly ship, run into skull captains on islands , fish and heck this may be controversial but I dont care if one can do Tall Tales in it. I am not totally unwilling to see others side of things even though it does perplex me as to why anyone who does not want to play with the constant threat of PvP would spend money on this. I personally would just like to see no rep is given and I dont care if gold is earned. I do think any faction work, skull forts and skelly fleets need to be done in public session. People should earn rep for risk its a risk and reward game, devs have made that clear. You do not want to take the risk, then no reward for you. I am mainly a PvE'r on this game aswell, I only fight when I have to and that is few and far between .

Saying 'It's not dead right now' only proves that it's not yet dead right now. And a lot of that is down to the release on Steam bringing in new players. Players who, based on what happened with other PvPvE games that released on Steam and refused to provide a PvE only option, will not stick around.

Yes you are correct. I am not a psychic and nor are you. It is impossible for anyone to say where this game will be five years down the road. Fact is the game is doing well.

You'll notice that I'm not addressing what the people who made the game have said. That's because those 'statements' aren't exactly legally binding.

Really. the statements are not legally binding? That's a new reason as to why people ignore what the game developers have to say, I will give you that.

I've been following games long enough to know that when a developer or publisher says 'we will never do x' it means absolutely nothing. Look at how many games there are where the Devs promised they would never add micro transactions that now have tons and tons of micro transactions.

Yeah but lets be real here the microtransactions does not change the vision of game. The fact that none of it gives you an upper hand in combat stays true to what they said. I play games where micro transactions give you a boost in actual game play and I think that is actually what the devs were against. I mean who cares if you can buy a monkey? Owning Bananas the Monkey does not give you an upper hand at all, its just really cute.

@orchideelamm921

Free with game pass for PC. Three months for a packet of peanuts.

@orchideelamm921 that's where you are completely wrong, games that feature "play anywhere" at the time of the game pass release were able to be played on PC if you subbed to game pass, which you did not need a console to do.

That was a long while ago though, and they have since implemented game pass for PC as of June 2019, didnt you say you picked this game up after it had been out 2 years? Which was what? March 2020 the 2nd anniversary?

Your timelines and reasons arent adding up.

@rowge-gaming nope I'm still right, fallacy or not.

Constructive criticism on a users actions isnt really character assassination or a fallacy buddy.

As much as you want it to be.

Theres already a process for toxicity and it isnt called PvE or private servers.

Use it.

@robrechtve said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):
@combatxkitty said in PvE-Mode with seperate progression (Pirates vs. AI):
I've been following games long enough to know that when a developer or publisher says 'we will never do x' it means absolutely nothing. Look at how many games there are where the Devs promised they would never add micro transactions that now have tons and tons of micro transactions. >

Like I said devs were always against mincrotransactions that gave you an upper hand. Also Rare had discussed microtransaction for pets and cosmetics since game launch. I notice many arguments for PvE servers contain false information.
Also here is a quote from Joe Nate:

"Executive Producer Joe Neate spoke to IGN about the decision, which will instead add in microtransactions to the game after launch in the first major update, probably around three months in.

“We thought long and hard about what's right for our game experience, and the key thing we think is that it has to add to the fun, social nature of the game. So anything in this area will not impact power or progression, and you'll always know what you're getting - so that means no loot crates.”>

@orchideelamm921 that you said it wasnt an option, that's what didnt add up.

A bit surprised you had to ask that.

You dont need to ask forgiveness though lol.

Like I said previously, everyone makes purchasing mistakes.

Maybe learn from it and pay due diligence for your preferences with other games in the future?, especially ones where you already feel you may dislike it.

Cheers.