So, if you're chasing your first victim, you're offering nothing? If your first victim has nothing, the person who sinks you after that chase gets nothing?
This is exactly why Arena was developed, because your playstyle offers no incentive for a person to defend themselves and everything to lose.
@natiredgals Neither. It's Rare's fault for making the most boring strategy the most effective. If you, a game designer, have made the meta 'bore your opponents into quitting', you took a wrong turn somewhere.
@doctorfork I don't like the Arena because it's very repetitive. I made a post about that. Anyway, if you look at the nameplate thing, you'll see that's partly there to incentivize figting your attackers. I'd also be partial to being allowed to offer gold for sinking me. My ship could have a number on it, and whoever sinks me can have that much gold straight from my pocket. Maybe then they'd fight. In addition, piracy's not really supposed to be a 2 party consent system.
@goedecke-michel I'm assuming to you're talking about the wake mechanic. It's not there to make it easier, it's there to make it faster. With the wake, you can catch up to your opponents in a few minutes and then fight. Without, you catch up over about 45 minutes and then fight.
@wilbymagicbear I am talking about your whining for chasing a sloop for hours and don't become rich about it. You have to learn which ship is a target and which is not. You need to read their gameplay for some time. You also need a plan how to get them so they can not escape - which differs from ship type to ship type. You need to read the wind, use islands and such and attack from the right direction. If you just attack any vessel you see you pretty much waste your time. All you recieve is a game without fun for the chasing one and the chased victims.
@goedecke-michel I'm more often with no target than one. I certainly am not given a choice on the regular, so I go after whoever I can. If I only attacked worthwhile ships, I would end most of my sessions without firing a shot. As for your advice on chasing, I'd like to point out that I'm normally on a sloop. Most other ships are also sloops. Wind direction is irrelevant. As for sneaking up, at some point you have to go loud. That's when they drop sails and haul keel. Then, you slowly catch up over the course of an hour by being a tiny bit faster than they are, and then you finally have your 5 minute tussle over a hateful skull.
@wilbymagicbear
As I said earlier in the thread, I support the nameplate system(I would say the ship's bell would be the treasure that rises). But your proposals aside from that are focused on enhancing the game to your preferred playstyle's favor. And you're not alone in this.
I agree that there's not enough combat in the game-at least nowadays, but the root of the problem is that the incentive to flee is higher than the incentive to stand one's ground-and making it harder to flee is not a satisfying solution. I can tell you that if I spent hours to get a chest of legends and someone who just spawned in is attacking me to try and take it, I'm going to run as well. Because no matter how confident I am in my own skill, the odds just aren't worth it. In effect, it rewards the thief, but punishes the person doing the quests based entirely on combat.
Perhaps a better way would be, as someone mentioned above, more specialty treasures-not necessarily cursed ones, but maybe temporarily(~30 minutes) buffed ones. Maybe a trinket that if it's on your ship randomly turns a cannonball into a random CC, or maybe it prevents a rival crew from dropping your anchor. This way, it rewards actually doing missions and keeping a valuable treasure.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@doctorfork I don't like the Arena because it's very repetitive. I made a post about that. Anyway, if you look at the nameplate thing, you'll see that's partly there to incentivize figting your attackers. I'd also be partial to being allowed to offer gold for sinking me. My ship could have a number on it, and whoever sinks me can have that much gold straight from my pocket. Maybe then they'd fight. In addition, piracy's not really supposed to be a 2 party consent system.
The way you describe your exploits sounds really repetitive too. Really the action is much the exact same as in the arena the only difference is you get to attack people who arent looking to fight. And you further want to make it impossible for them not to? Sounds like entitlement to me. And as others have pointed out there is no incentive for the people who actually generate loot in the world to engage at all.
@natiredgals The differnece is in the stakes. Win, and you get piles of loot and hours of work. Lose, and you miss your chance at all of that. It's exciting. Arena? Not so much. Win, and I get 4800 gold (huh, not very much.) Lose, and I get... 4000 gold...huh.
Adeventure is a whole lot less repetive. Maybe a kraken attacks, maybe they keg me, maybe another ship gets involved, you know.
I'm aware there's no incentive to fight. That's why I'd like to place a bounty on myself, or drop a nameplate.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
Piracy's not rewarding or fun. It takes far too long to find a target, and when you do, they'll either have no loot or run away. Sometimes you can swim over, but then you'll have to sink a ship without using a ship, a difficult task. There's almost never enough treasure to warrant the time put in, I can count the number of times I've found someone else with a fort's worth on my fingers after 2 years.
To encourage piracy, hoarding loot, and actually fighting attackers, I suggest this:
As many have suggested, treasure should gain value the longer it's on a ship. This will encourage hoarding loot, which makes the game more exciting for everyone. I'd also like a Golden Flag, which marks you on the map, gives off a brilliant mark, and makes the treasure gain value faster.
Ships should drop a nameplate when sunk. The nameplate can be sold to any faction, the amount it's worth is equal to 10 times the total level of everyone on the ship combined. This encourages fighting your attackers, ensures there's always a reward for winning, and it encourages players to attack experinced ships, not new players. It could be absurd though, so some careful balancing is a must.
Ships leave a wake that makes any other ships that sail into it go 50% faster. This discorgaes running away, and it adds an extra depth to ship combat. Imagine baiting your enemies into smashing into a rock by making them go faster.
Fix the number of ships per server. It's supposed to be 6, but it's not. It should be 8, what with the Roar, but if there were always 6 ships that would still be good enough. Right now it takes about 45 minutes of searching to find anyone, which is way too long.
This idea won’t work. Problem is, I got 2 million gold with nothing to spend it on. Why would I hoard gold if I don’t need extra gold?
In order to find people, use the ship in a bottle quests. They were specifically designed to lead you to other people. Whenever I do those quests, I always run into another crew.
Yea but you go past passive incentives, which dont exist for a reason. And suggest actively reducing peoples ability to prolong, maybe turn in some stuff via flyby.
Where are all my forum posters up in here talking about how people shouldn't be asking for changes to the core of how the game works? hmmm crickets from that crowd on this one. To crib one of the arguments they love best. maybe this game just isn't really what you think it is, maybe its not for you.
@natiredgals There's need of core changes because there's core issues. The thieving population of this game has been decimated. First it's -hit us, and then it's gonna hit you. When all the pirates quit this game, because they can't steal anything worthwhile, the only danger is gone. Are you gonna keep having fun playing when there's no chance of loss? You need us just as much as we need you, and we're going (gone) under thanks to the game ensuring thieves can't have fun.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
I'm aware there's no incentive to fight. That's why I'd like to place a bounty on myself, or drop a nameplate.
Why not just decorate your ship with skulls? That should get their attention.
I go out of my way to not have an encounter with another ship or player. if for whatever reason I cant outrun I scuttle. if these things were implemented I would scuttle as soon as I noticed a ship following me, no shots, no reward and time wasted chasing me anyway.
I love the game as it is pvp or pve as personal intent to play. I would hate to be forced to play my least favorite aspect .this game has depth, not a shoot em up game, nor purely exploration
why do people want to ruin the game as a whole to suit the game for the way they want it to be, if you dont like it, you dont like it and there are plenty of games that will give you what you are looking for. one way or the other is too heavy a degree for either parties, right now is a happy medium.
@norloc If you never want to fight, you might try playing a game that isn't partly founded on fighting. Why can't I play Halo with shooting things? Why can't I play Mario without all the jumping?
because sea of thieves is more than the fight, its the full package, something for everyone; giving the option to fight or flee if you choose. fighting is part if you choose it to be, if you impose these rules you are choosing for it to be fighting for me, I dont want to play your game I want to play mine. I haven't played arena, but it sounds like that's the area you'd be interested in, if the rewards aren't up to par, then I would say that's the issue.
halo is specifically a shooter, Mario is run and jump. SoT has sailing, exploring, fighting (NPC and player base), hunting, fishing, so many things to do. why cut it down to one small aspect?
I know your not saying remove the other aspects of the game, but as many people who are for the implementation of further conflict, just as many are opposed to it. what audience should rare pander too, pvp or pve?
from my perspective, I have only started playing again after about a years absence, with the emergence of the arena the hostile encounters has significantly decreased (despite people talking about being target attacked during tall tale missions). most ships keep on sailing, with the odd ship seeking confrontation, the game is exactly where I want it to be. if I want to completely avoid other players I just need to be more patient or be willing to leave at a moments notice which interrupts my game. if you need extended time to find a willing opponent to play your game then that's your trade off.
these changes might give you more incentive to attack me, but still no incentive for me to want to attack you. so many other things that I enjoy doing that I doubt I would ever be interested in the pvp aspect of the game.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@rk1-turbulence Cause I can't steal any first. If I get 'em, that would be pretty good bait indeed.
Do an Order of Souls mission. Pick a small island and cannon them, quick and easy. Unless you can't bear to even do 5 min of PvE of course, then I don't know what to tell you.
Nah the core is fine. I've still been attacked and pursued in adventure mode, and dealt with them however was appropriate at the time. As to your question, I'll sail as long as Rare keeps giving me new things to achieve and experiences to have, especially as long as my crew wants to keep going, but yea I'd likely keep soloing too because I enjoy the challenge of solo sailing.
Thing is, the players who only wanna take things from other players, they need the people out there generating the things to take far far more than they are needed by those out there generating the loot. It's just a fact. Its a purposeful design choice, even. The idea is that there's more than one way to interact with players, and the devs did not want to incentivize pvp to the point where it discourages all other interactions.
Basically I welcome you to where I was with pvp about a month after launch. Yes you're free to do it and Rare wants the threat to exist, but outside of certain situations its just not (by design) a very profitable use of time. Personally I enjoy pvp but I chuckle at the thought of chasing a ship for an hour. What a colossal waste of everyone's time. So long ago I accepted that If I wanted the fun of pvp I might be writing of profitable/efficient progression, and if I want pvp (outside of fending off players who cant be bothered to get their own loot) I head to a fort or put up a reapers mark, or the occasional ship arriving at an outpost.
So welcome to Sea of Thieves man, because this is what pvp has always been. Something that you can do, and something that rare wants the threat of to exist, but not something that is going to always be quick and profitable.
@natiredgals There's a balance to be struck and this is nowhere near. Almost all PvP is a waste of time. When I long on, lap the world in an hour, and find no one but an AFK solo sloop at an outpost, I quit feeling like I wasted my time. When that happens more often than not, I don't want to play the game. When I and everyone like me quits, it'll just be you and a thousand other sloopers, sailing around, never interacting beyond a flag, never losing, and hence never winning. I'm sure you'll have fun with the fetch quests then.
@rk1-turbulence I used to be like all of you. Solo slooping, doing my fetch quests, running from fights. Then I got bored and started piracy. Now, I just sail around for hours, wishing there was someone to rob.
If this game doesn't fix itself, you'll either end up like me and quit because there's nothing left, or quit beforehand because there's no losing.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@rk1-turbulence I used to be like all of you. Solo slooping, doing my fetch quests, running from fights. Then I got bored and started piracy. Now, I just sail around for hours, wishing there was someone to rob.
If this game doesn't fix itself, you'll either end up like me and quit because there's nothing left, or quit beforehand because there's no losing.
Nice assumptions. I'm actually very much into the PvP. Sunk two sloops and a brig since we last spoke in fact. One sloop we didn't sink, but we did completely empty it of resources. Even chased down one of those sloops and harpooned it, imagine that (harpoon OP, btw).
Thing is I do both though. I don't see the appeal in playing half the game, and I don't think it should be as heavily slanted towards PvP as you're suggesting.
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@rk1-turbulence I did both. For a while. Guess what happened next?
The suspense is killing me...
Almost all pvp has always been a "waste of time". That is, if you're looking to make money and progress off of it. This isn't really a new thing. If anything has changed its that a lot of the players who'd have wasted their time with you are now doing it in the arena. And like I said, its cool that you talk about sailing around the world but I was in a battle with 3 different ships last night and I only had to sail as far as the active fort.
@natiredgals said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
Almost all pvp has always been a "waste of time". That is, if you're looking to make money and progress off of it. This isn't really a new thing. If anything has changed its that a lot of the players who'd have wasted their time with you are now doing it in the arena. And like I said, its cool that you talk about sailing around the world but I was in a battle with 3 different ships last night and I only had to sail as far as the active fort.
I just hope people will start coming back to adventure once they get all their wins. It's too easy now.
@natiredgals
Logged in for pvp last night with my brother. Sailed the map twice and left the fort active as bait. Didnt see a soul. Had more than 300 planks, cannonballs, and food from stockin on the goal lookin for ppl. Was about to call it a night when i got server merged and now i have ships all around me. Lots of epic fights after that. I agree 100% pvp is not profitable. Had around 100k to turn in from a dozen sunken ships. Not a single piece of loot from the players 😑
@wilbymagicbear said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@pomalotacusmk3 I wait an hour because I really enjoy those 5 minutes. But wouldn't it be nicer if I didn't have to wait?
What you are asking for is the ability to smash newer players. Anyone with skill will do drive-bys on outposts 'till they are sold up. At that point, your 5 minute enjoyment would be better provided in arena. 30 minutes of concentrated battles with little or no loot, or 60 minutes of sailing with 5 minutes of fighting with little or no loot. Which sounds like more fun?
@pomalotacusmk3 It's not to attack noobertons. I don't bother with them, fighting them is boring and they have no loot. Anyone who knows how to run away effectively is decent enough to make the actual battle fun. I don't like Arena too much it's too repetive.
@nwo-azcrack said in Putting the 'Thieves' back in Sea of Thieves:
@natiredgals
Logged in for pvp last night with my brother. Sailed the map twice and left the fort active as bait. Didnt see a soul. Had more than 300 planks, cannonballs, and food from stockin on the goal lookin for ppl. Was about to call it a night when i got server merged and now i have ships all around me. Lots of epic fights after that. I agree 100% pvp is not profitable. Had around 100k to turn in from a dozen sunken ships. Not a single piece of loot from the players 😑
How many hours was that?
@natiredgals
I played for about 5 hours i believe. Spent the first 45 mins stockin the boat at forts. Then the next 2 hours lookin for someone to attack. Sailed the whole map back and forth twice. Did around a dozen sunken ships. I usually use them to stock my boat and grab bait loot. Then we killed a few skelly ships out of bordom. Was about to log out and give up when we finally got server merged. Then spent the next couple sailin around attacking ppl.
@natiredgals
Well it was more like 4 or 5. Ya i know its my own fault for being only a pvper. But someone has to make the seas dangerous. The quests are beyond boring and the enemy ai is laughable at best.
