PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop

  • @betsill dijo en PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @lobofh If they do then it's a bad thing. Destiny is a great example cooperation done wrong(when it comes to raids and nightfall strikes). If you want players to do something you MUST give them the tools to be able to accomplish it(and no, the whim's and availability of other players is not a valid tool(especially when those players can kill you)). Fornite save the world is a bad game, and it would very likely be dead by now if it wasn't saved by battle royal.
    "In a PvPvE game like this one they need other tricks to force cooperation."
    Why? whether playing with another crew is better or worse is ENTIRELY preference. There is good reason to force one play style over another. Nothing is stopping players from working together. People have been working together on skeleton forts since the game came out and IT WASN'T FORCED.

    Destiny 1 and Fortnite PvE are fantastic, adictive games, remember that the appreciation of creative products is subjective.

    And please, most forts is one crew killing or backstabbing all the others, except some rare exceptions. There is no point for cooperation, a galleon crew can make a fort, so most players don't want to share the loot. This is why these forced coop events are the right idea if we want a game that is not only KoS.

  • @porkchop87 bro who cares some people actually enjoy the social aspect of this game. In my opinion its the only reason to play, the spontaneity of everyone you ecounter. Why do you play? its pvp aspects? Pffffft.....

  • @lobofh You're the first person I've heard say Fortnite save the world is anything better than "meh" lol, but 100% like what you like cause it is subjective. However, not providing an in game matchmaking system for raids, and requiring people to team up with other crews to be able to do something is OBJECTIVELY bad game design. Forcing players to depend on things that are completely out of their control is dumb, plain and simple.
    Playing the game with a crew of any size IS cooperation, Rare just arbitrarily decided that 1 crew wasn't enough.
    "...This is why these forced coop events are the right idea if we want a game that is not only KoS."
    I already addressed this so I would only be repeating myself. I don't have anymore points to add at the moment, so it would be pointless to continue. Thanks for being civil.

  • @betsill dijo en PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @lobofh You're the first person I've heard say Fortnite save the world is anything better than "meh" lol, but 100% like what you like cause it is subjective. However, not providing an in game matchmaking system for raids, and requiring people to team up with other crews to be able to do something is OBJECTIVELY bad game design. Forcing players to depend on things that are completely out of their control is dumb, plain and simple.
    Playing the game with a crew of any size IS cooperation, Rare just arbitrarily decided that 1 crew wasn't enough.
    "...This is why these forced coop events are the right idea if we want a game that is not only KoS."
    I already addressed this so I would only be repeating myself. I don't have anymore points to add at the moment, so it would be pointless to continue. Thanks for being civil.

    You should play Fortnite PvE to know by yourself if is good or bad, the opinion of other persons means nothing, I am playing it since its release and it rocks.

    Did you really play a Destiny raid?, because with randoms you have the same chances to beat it like to win a fort against 4 galleons.

    Again, it's not out of your control, you can find people out there willing to help and that's the great thing of this design, in a game where PvP is a thing some players decide that they want to cooperate. That's the point of these events.

    You want more of the same, there are other activities that can be solo'ed or done with your crew in SoT, the whole point of these events is the cooperation with other crews, it's not bad or good, simply different. And it's good for the game, imo.

  • @lobofh I've been thinking about giving it a shot cause my brother has it. I'm not a fan of battle royal because of building, but I thought i might like save the world better.

    I never got to play a destiny raid lol All my friends bought an xbox and I had it on PS4 because of reasons, so I couldn't play it. I could barely get people to help me with nightfall strikes. I quickly realized how terrible bungie had become as a company and not being able to raid without using 3rd party websites was the last straw for me. To bungies defense though compared to Sea of thieves, at least you could play it on your own time.

    Sorry but it is out of your control. The factor is other players(in a game where they can kill you no less) and you cannot argue that you have control over what other players do. Just because it's possible to find people that are willing to help doesn't mean you will. In a game that you design for people to play and people pay you for, leaving it up to chance is inexcusable and bad game design.

  • Just wanted to chime in here again, there's quite a few possibilities and many have been brought up in the past from what I have seen some of the better ones include:

    Simply providing a proverbial carrot for players to repeat content will make it easier to find others whose answer to helping won't simply be, No. Sure social development, friendships, fun would be great if that were enough. But even my friends usually pay for gas if I give them a lift to the store.

    Friendly outposts or similar have been mentioned both in this thread and elsewhere. Now, these outposts need not be friendly, but having a major outpost where the basic algorithm of play centralizes this location as constantly visited will help to force interaction with others for good or bad. But simply by having a place where others will be found will help mitigate the inability to find others to help in varied events. This could be done easily in game by simply dropping the Bilge Rat NPC into ONE area of the game instead of one on each current outpost. Players interested in the Bilge Rat for reasons of information, shopping, or even taking screenies with the drunk will encounter players with an obvious same interest. Heck, even a NEW island that's larger than the others with multiple ports, a mega mall with all the items from all the outposts, and so on... a central hub... would force players to meet. Sure, it'd be a great place to sink others and be a meanie... if it's a large enough place... that issue could be mitigated. Besides the quests already force us into proximity with other players so keeping us at a safe distance isn't the goal anyhow.

    Simply not having multi-crew events is a solve. I have to admit, even I prefer simply needing more players ON MY SHIP than needing to find another ship altogether, but that flies in the face of the current desires held by Rare so it doesn't seem like much of an option - but it is an option.

    Having a bulletin board in game that is server specific with messages that live only as long as a given player (the poster) is on the server works to aid in this issue as well. If I can log into a server, hop over to the bulletin board, read a request for help and commit to it by finding that player, my life just got 1000 times easier. Sure, finding that player might be a pain but at least you know they're on the server. It'd be better then if players could join a multi-crew party in game where each of text, quick-chat, and voice chat became linked and a new color for names appeared overhead (let's go with Rainbow hehe) so now everyone in this party can talk despite distance, identify who is in the party and who is not, and if rewards are on the line can even tell the game client who to reward. This can be attended too with Xbox party chat, but taking it a step further by helping players identify who is in their 'larger party' is potentially of value for many reasons. Simply being able to respond to a players BBoard message in game or with the xbox app could be of use, it could even allow the 3 voyages to be shared and larger voyages to be required later in the game which demand larger parties.

    Increase the damn game world size and players to server count... I know... literally world breaking... but man the landscape is small for an oceanic domain... but that isn't really a fair request, sure if SoT was a procedural generated game similar in scope to Eve online with no size limits or players per server cap... the world would end.. but hey, I'd buy that game lol - obviously not a reality possible here.

    There's more but these are the best fixes I have seen, thought of previously, or can think of right now. There are other options but I find them to be somewhat game breaking. Such as peaceful outposts.. obviously not something we want as it robs us of the freedom Rare so values we keep. Finding players outside of the game and bringing them to our server only leads to "server alphas" and "friends only" servers and that's not a good thing either, and so on...

  • Trouble is I know nothing about game design so I don't know what's possible. But if they can track who has the commendation for completing a multi-crew task and who doesn't, maybe they could have the crew who does already have it get a "helpers fee".

    Like, if you complete an event multiple times, as long as another person who hasn't completes it at the same time, you'd get rewarded with gold. Something like a Captain's Chest worth or so.

    Like I said, not sure how possible that would be, but it could encourage more people to help out.

  • @v**a-hombre everything in game design is possible with enough money or time... sure, engine/platform and other limitations do exist... but overall... in the PC world if it can be thought of it can be done. Were this not true, we'd still be playing Atari 2600 games.

  • @rk1-turbulence They are forcing me to play with other people if i want to get everything there is to gain from this update. So what ur saying is actually not true, u should be able to find ur own people and do it with ur own crew. Stop trying to blow kisses to rare.

  • @lobofh said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @betsill dijo en PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @lobofh I'm all for encouraging cooperation, but they aren't encouraging it, they are requiring it! Just an example of a game that does cooperation right. Warframe is a 4 person coop shooter, it is almost entirely PVE, has tons of diferent mission types and quests, but it NEVER forces it's players to team up. You can play every single bit of warframes content solo(even though it can make it far more difficult(though sometimes it makes it easier)) if you want because Digital Extremes respects their players and understand that some people like to play differently.

    Yes, but you said it, Warframe is almost entirely PvE, SoT isn't, so they need to encourage coop forcing crews to cooperate.

    If these events would not force cooperation there would be crews camping them to run mindless PvP. How many forts did you make with another crew?

    I've had more friendlier experiences outside of the weekly events than the actual required event because sitting on chairs is not fun for anyone and once players do it? the game once again becomes boring so they camp around the area waiting to unload cannons. (Yea, that is already happening without the removal of Co-op like you are suggesting) and at least without the required Co-op if someone's camping at an area? you can switch servers.

    Friendly interactions can and DO exist without being forced and I don't know about you but I find it a lot more fun knowing these players are choosing to have an adventure with me rather than being forced to complete the same objective and then having them unloading cannons into my ship after they've sat on the chair with ONE of my crew and the rest of our crew hadn't yet sat on the throne, we communicated this through mic and PC chat but they didn't care because it was their last throne. what was "fun." and "social" about that experience? when we couldn't even explore and find the thrones because that crew was clearly using hints because they knew exactly where to go and it took the exploration out for my crew..

    I understand many of you are having fun experiences and i love the social aspect of this game myself but nobody should be missing out on what little content the game has because of it. :(

    i'm lucky enough to play the weekly events day one but i don't agree my exclusives or anyone elses should ever be based on other players. If I'm there and ready to experince the event. I should get the reward and be able to experience the event and with the hungering deep players missed out on CONTENT and an experience that was teased for months due to other players and that shouldn't never be okay to be screwed over like that. we should care about how our player base is treated and not just about ourselves because it ultimately will effect the game. At least with the thrones you can buy the outfit by completing the solo thrones. I think that's a step in the right direction.

    I'm sorry two of the images are blurred I tried =^.^= as seen in my pictures. few of many! you can be social without being forced.

  • @porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    I really like the variety of these new adventures, don't get me wrong. But why on Earth would you require me to engage socially with the general population, IN A PIRATE GAME no less, to accomplish a time-limited task?

    I'll just stop here.

    To remember you what type this game is supposed to be/was made to be. ..

    Yes, it's a pirate game. Yes it is possible to turn it in a PvP fighting game.
    But the main core of this game is the social engagement

    This is why this game was made to be.
    A social game! That's why every single ship and everything single character moving in the world is a human player.
    That why we have a warning box in the main screen to let us know about our mic and chat channel status.

    This is a social game.

    Why do we have such poor social interactions in a game if this is supposed to be a social game?

    Because people do not understand that. People came to this game with their own ideas of what this game could be, not what it is.
    Because the game looks beautiful.

    This is why Devs are trying to incorporate this kind of events in the game. To people realize this is a SOCIAL Pirate Themed game.

  • @betsill dijo en PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @lobofh I've been thinking about giving it a shot cause my brother has it. I'm not a fan of battle royal because of building, but I thought i might like save the world better.

    I never got to play a destiny raid lol All my friends bought an xbox and I had it on PS4 because of reasons, so I couldn't play it. I could barely get people to help me with nightfall strikes. I quickly realized how terrible bungie had become as a company and not being able to raid without using 3rd party websites was the last straw for me. To bungies defense though compared to Sea of thieves, at least you could play it on your own time.

    Sorry but it is out of your control. The factor is other players(in a game where they can kill you no less) and you cannot argue that you have control over what other players do. Just because it's possible to find people that are willing to help doesn't mean you will. In a game that you design for people to play and people pay you for, leaving it up to chance is inexcusable and bad game design.

    Leaving out the SoT discussion because we agree to disagree.

    Fortnite PvE would be a great experience for you if you like Tower defence games and loot based games, the game delivers in those aspects. Every round is different with the procedural elements in the maps and missions. Sometimes the players will only rely on guns and the round won't be very interesting but when you meet "defence tower" players will be a hell of fun, with crazy traps networks and original fortresses. Then the game shines.

    About Destiny (first one, I didn't enjoy the second game at all) only can be enjoyed with a good crew of friends. I played it thousand hours and it was the meeting point for my PSN friends for two years. Every raid was an amazing challenge, we loved to discover their twisted mechanics and overcome their difficulty, those raids with randoms would be impossible except with seasoned veterans with lot of successful raids in their curriculum, sorry, but your petition of matchmaking raids would never work, I made hundreds of raids and I know it, Bungie was right.

    About nightfall strikes in the first years it was like a Dark Souls boss with friends, if all your team dies you go back to orbit and start again. Later Bungie watered them down with a checkpoints system and it becomed possible for matchmaking, but once again, the original nightfalls were hard enough with a team of friends.

    Bungie made a ton of mistakes in Destiny 2, but in Destiny 1 they were right, high level activities needed a team of friends, PUG's were out of the question.

    @ath3na-cr33d I enjoy the friendly interactions, indeed, but the fact is that most players in this game are agressive as soon as there is some loot involved, like in forts, so again I think that this coop elements are right and add some layers more to the game. It can be frustrating but when you find helpful people is charming.

  • @nunoazuldimeter said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Why do we have such poor social interactions in a game if this is supposed to be a social game?
    Because people do not understand that. People came to this game with their own ideas of what this game could be, not what it is.

    "It's the players fault, they just don't get it! They are playing the game wrong!"
    Get a load of this delusion.

  • @twiztedkarrtoon said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Stop doing the weekly events then, the game was made with social grouping the main idea behind it.why do people choose to play these games then complain about it.........this is what it's creators wanted, it's been repeatedly stated over and over again. You can play the game without doing weekly events or just do the single group parts of them. But the weekly events aren't going to stop being social events. I love this about the game. Also start getting in on the first day of event. Everyone has time everyday you could get on.

    Well first of all I don't want to stop doing the weekly events. I paid for them just like everyone else, I'd like to continue seeing the variety they offer. And I hate to disagree, but not everyone has time every day to play. Some of us have jobs, kids, families,responsibilities, etc that prevent us from getting time every day.

    All I would like to see is the OPTION to do the weekly events WITHOUT having to co-op with somebody not on my crew. So maybe, the event could offer an extra bonus gold/etc for searching out the random player willing to help. While I could do the same event, sans extra bonus, because I choose to only do it with my crew. I would be OK getting less coin/xp/whatever for doing less (essentially, by not recruiting a non-crewperson to help).

    This option does not take away anyone's ability or choice to recruit others if they want to. But it also doesn't force the rest of us to have to do it. And I also agree, more incentive for helping non-crew/repeating the task is needed.

  • @porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @twiztedkarrtoon said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Stop doing the weekly events then, the game was made with social grouping the main idea behind it.why do people choose to play these games then complain about it.........this is what it's creators wanted, it's been repeatedly stated over and over again. You can play the game without doing weekly events or just do the single group parts of them. But the weekly events aren't going to stop being social events. I love this about the game. Also start getting in on the first day of event. Everyone has time everyday you could get on.

    Well first of all I don't want to stop doing the weekly events. I paid for them just like everyone else, I'd like to continue seeing the variety they offer. And I hate to disagree, but not everyone has time every day to play. Some of us have jobs, kids, families,responsibilities, etc that prevent us from getting time every day.

    All I would like to see is the OPTION to do the weekly events WITHOUT having to co-op with somebody not on my crew. So maybe, the event could offer an extra bonus gold/etc for searching out the random player willing to help. While I could do the same event, sans extra bonus, because I choose to only do it with my crew. I would be OK getting less coin/xp/whatever for doing less (essentially, by not recruiting a non-crewperson to help).

    This option does not take away anyone's ability or choice to recruit others if they want to. But it also doesn't force the rest of us to have to do it. And I also agree, more incentive for helping non-crew/repeating the task is needed.

    This.

    With how disastrous the sitting on chairs thing was I can't believe they have come out and said "no were still really going to push multi-crew cooperation"
    It's absolutely ridiculous. Yes some people have managed it but the majority of us have spent hours upon hours aimlessly sailing, searching, waiting, server hopping etc with NO light at the end of the tunnel. The whole thing put me off the game I previously liked and now they want to push more of this? Nah.

  • @ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Oh it can be done, my anecdotal little philosopher, but your experience is not like other's and where you found it not looking for it- many people have spent all evenings actively searching for and pursuing what you could have had 3 times over. What people want, is for a way to make that better, because there is nothing FUN about sailing for hours and hours over multiple days begging players to help YOU when they have no incentive to do so.

    Funny, you minimize my experience as atypical, but claim your own is widespread. You call us out for using anecdotal evidence; care to share your source of data? I was addressing the claims that it is not possible after the first few days of the event. Here it is a week later and I am still tripping into these opportunities. It just takes one white crow, right?

    Tripping into and moving on without helping, thus validating OP’s concern.

  • I'm sitting on top of Marauders Arch (5th attempt...I'm getting better at this!) on what feels an empty server.
    I'm hoping for a Skull Fort, which might encourage some server hoppers to come my way.

    Come on gen pop, come find me. I promise it'll deliver better mental satisfaction than cannoning yourself onto a chair.

    Okay, no sooner had I posted that, a Skull Fort popped up.....where are you server hoppers?!

  • Gotta love this community.

    Before the hungering deep: There's no incentive to work together all there is is killing eachother where's the fun in that.

    After the hungering deep: There's too much working together I just want to kill everyone.

    Relax, there's always people willing to work together and if you dont want to you dont have to. You dont se me spamming madly on the forums that I'm being forced to import american cookies to get cosmetics? Just do the solo portion of the quest and if you really want it, go the extra mile and if you don't... well don't.

  • Think of it this way, the single most deadly and unpredictable enemy in Sea of Thieves is a ship of your peers. You never know how an interaction will play out when you encounter another ship, will they attack, befriend you and forge a strong alliance, or maybe double cross you all while you're trying to get that fort, find that chest, etc.

    Sea of Thieves is by design focused around player interaction, if you removed that completely from the game and say took it offline and just had AI ships/enemies I think we'd all agree the game wouldn't be fun after a day or two tops.

    All Rare has done with the skull thrones is "leveled up" your peer interaction abilities now instead of just attack, or play music together you have a "button" for work towards a common goal. Was it hard this time? Keep at it and like any skill you'll get better. Did you miss out on a throne or two...that's okay. Everyone wasn't going to be able to get this done, that's what makes the time limited items special for those who able to.

    Don't like this challenge in general? Go attack a skull fort or find some chicken somewhere...

  • @PorkChop87

    All I would like to see is the OPTION to do the weekly events WITHOUT having to co-op with somebody not on my crew. So maybe, the event could offer an extra bonus gold/etc for searching out the random player willing to help. While I could do the same event, sans extra bonus, because I choose to only do it with my crew. I would be OK getting less coin/xp/whatever for doing less (essentially, by not recruiting a non-crewperson to help).

    Ummm that's exactly what you have. If you just want to complete the event solo, shoot yourself onto all ten thrones, you'll only earn the flat rate of 40 dabloons and a great title "Hero of Thrones" If you are an overachiever and up to the challenge bring along a new friend from a strange crew to half the thrones and you'll get the bonus of an additional 72 dabloons as well the bonus title "Master of Thrones"!

  • @mrgrim67686 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @ghostpaw said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @bathrobe-dave said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Oh it can be done, my anecdotal little philosopher, but your experience is not like other's and where you found it not looking for it- many people have spent all evenings actively searching for and pursuing what you could have had 3 times over. What people want, is for a way to make that better, because there is nothing FUN about sailing for hours and hours over multiple days begging players to help YOU when they have no incentive to do so.

    Funny, you minimize my experience as atypical, but claim your own is widespread. You call us out for using anecdotal evidence; care to share your source of data? I was addressing the claims that it is not possible after the first few days of the event. Here it is a week later and I am still tripping into these opportunities. It just takes one white crow, right?

    Tripping into and moving on without helping, thus validating OP’s concern.

    Read my post again. It was two crews already working through the event inviting me to come along. They didn’t need my help. They were offering to help me. Unlike the solo mid-teen who asked for and received my help yesterday afternoon. See what you want to see. I cannot stop you.

  • @lord-pharqwad said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    @porkchop87 bro who cares some people actually enjoy the social aspect of this game. In my opinion its the only reason to play, the spontaneity of everyone you ecounter. Why do you play? its pvp aspects? Pffffft.....

    I'm not asking to take the social aspect away from the game. I'd just like to OPTION to be social or not when I play all parts of the game. That's all. I certainly don't play for the PvP, as I've said before I avoid that as much as I can. The social part of the game that is fun for me is playing with my crew, and not being forced to find someone I don't know to convince them to help me.

  • Ummm that's exactly what you have. If you just want to complete the event solo, shoot yourself onto all ten thrones, you'll only earn the flat rate of 40 dabloons and a great title "Hero of Thrones" If you are an overachiever and up to the challenge bring along a new friend from a strange crew to half the thrones and you'll get the bonus of an additional 72 dabloons as well the bonus title "Master of Thrones"!

    In this adventure, you are exactly correct. I can do all 10 thrones, and earn less. But in Hungering Deep I didn't even have a chance to see the Meg, let alone fight and defeat it without a non-crew member involved. I'm just sensing a pattern that is not to my personal liking.

    And this is a forum to voice concerns, which is really all I was doing. Some people agree with me, others don't. That's people, no problem.

  • @porkchop87 said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    Ummm that's exactly what you have. If you just want to complete the event solo, shoot yourself onto all ten thrones, you'll only earn the flat rate of 40 dabloons and a great title "Hero of Thrones" If you are an overachiever and up to the challenge bring along a new friend from a strange crew to half the thrones and you'll get the bonus of an additional 72 dabloons as well the bonus title "Master of Thrones"!

    In this adventure, you are exactly correct. I can do all 10 thrones, and earn less.

    Well, you can do 5. The other 5 requires another crew.

  • @hynieth said in PLEASE stop insisting on co-op with the gen pop:

    After the hungering deep: "There's too much working together"

    What? There is no working together! There is sailing, searching, waiting, harassing and server hopping to TRY and work together. But there is no working together.

  • @scrubber89 Your experience is clearly different then mine. I'm constantly working with other crews helping them achieve the thrones and before that the megladon. I think the last day the Megladon was active we helped around 7 ships summon and kill it.

  • @porkchop87
    This game is all about the social experiences and interaction with others. Since they started the multi crew requirements from THD the seas truly have been less violent, although people might disagree Rare stated that the amount of encounters that would normally result in a fight was halved. Speaking for myself, people from my fleet/friendlist I spoke to and people I helped I can see that everyone that did find other people had a great time that they before couldn't have imagined possible.

    Rare already stated that they intend to keep pushing players to work together, but they're looking into way of getting people together easier. They also said they'll try to make event replayable so people will have some incentive to help more crews.

  • @porkchop87 then you already have what you ask for, this even had stuff that you could do with only your crew, 5 chairs wich gives you enough gold to get the suit or the dress, and the hat. your welcome. otherwise find time to play and group up. i have kids and chores and work and there is always enough time to put in an hour or 2

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