4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.

@gloog This is also a great idea, but it requires months of work from the Rare Dev team. My current fixes are aimed toward the near future/today. A simple system which will allow players to have larger crews if wanted.

I would love to see different ships in the future, but Rare already has a ton on their plate at the moment.

@gloog What do you mean by this?

@eddythecaptain said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

I've read plenty of posts saying that it "won't be overpowered" and i've finally decided to make a post explaining why, with just 1 reason.

1. A sloop will never sink with 4 players. Currently if you scuttle a sloop, you can still scoop water fast enough that it will never sink. Try doing this with a galley, good luck.

The sloop has always been my preferred boat because of this single reason. You can be taking incoming fire from a galley, on all 4 cannons, and still survive.

Another thing people don't recognize is the cover that sloops have while repairing. You have full coverage from incoming cannonfire, as long as you're in the right position.

Video Evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApeVJ2d6S8Y

Notice my position in the video, you have full coverage from incoming fire as long as you stand where I am standing. Also, you do take knockback from cannons that struck the side of your boat, but they do 1-5% damage to your character. You can easily heal through their barrage and stay alive while scooping water.

Possible fixes:

Fix #1: Balance time with player count. What I mean by this is, if you have 1 player a sloop, it should take 1 second to bring up the sails. If there are 4 players on a sloop, it should take 4 seconds. etc. This would scale with all aspects of the ship, turning power, water intake, sail angle speed, sail length speed, etc.

Fix #2 (MY FAVOTITE): Add a Guild/Clan system which allows you to join other players on the same server. This will allow players to form fleets instead of having too many people on one single ship. Rare, please think about this since it will require much less work than Fix #1. Thank you :D

Let me know what you guys think down below. Keep in-mind im trying to keep this as simple as possible, but there are still plenty of reasons why Rare should think about a different alternative.

Sorry man but the whole you can survive while taking 4 cannon shots while bailing water is such a lie its not even funny that you said it lol. Id love to see a vid of you bailing water next to those stairs while a galleon is shooting the side right by it. you die in 2 shots. gl keeping that bailing up when u gotta eat a banna and or die in 1 sec by 2 cannon shots placed just right.
Sorry but the sloop is nimble for a reason and it is also weaker for a reason. you may be able to stop it from sinking but the fact is. you wont keep that bailing up. you have to fix the walls you will get boarded and shot. in all honesty this proves nothing.

@vderickv You don't take much damage from cannon fire while behind walls. The damage is reduced enough to the point where you take 1-5% damage every hit. (I will upload a video of this if needed, but you can try it yourself.)

Also, you said you will get boarded and shot. How will I be boarded with 4 players on my ship? They will protecting our ladders, making sure no one is coming up, while 1 person is on our cannons trying to fire back.

Obviously there is a lot of random factors that aren't even included in this discussion, including the simple strategy of ramming. You can ram a galley and cannons are out of the picture, its all about the amount of players now. Close range combat with the same amount of people, yet one team has the advantage because they have an easier ship to deal with.

@gloog said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

@vderickv why would you sit still facing a galleon. Your giving the least likely scenario in a 4v4 faceoff..

I never said sitting still... You don't have to be sitting still to have them on the side of you... but most scenarios of when a galleon is shooting you they will have the opportunity for at least 2 cannons on you.

@eddythecaptain said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

@vderickv You don't take much damage from cannon fire while behind walls. The damage is reduced enough to the point where you take 1-5% damage every hit. (I will upload a video of this if needed, but you can try it yourself.)

Also, you said you will get boarded and shot. How will I be boarded with 4 players on my ship? They will protecting our ladders, making sure no one is coming up, while 1 person is on our cannons trying to fire back.

Obviously there is a lot of random factors that aren't even included in this discussion, including the simple strategy of ramming. You can ram a galley and cannons are out of the picture, its all about the amount of players now. Close range combat with the same amount of people, yet one team has the advantage because they have an easier ship to deal with.

I have most definitely died from 2 direct hits when i was trying to fix the exact spot they hit. and or been in the red everytime after being hit once. 1-5% of your health doesn't seem accurate sorry.

If one person is on the sails one person is driving one person fixing and one on the cannon. the only person to see the guy board would be the guy on the sails. pretty good odds there to kill him and then the driver. Just saying.
https://twitter.com/DerickMcAfee/status/985686826764484608
At This skull fort me and my buddy took on a sloop before this video then this galleon crew came at us. obv didn't work out for either of the crews did it?
Its not about the player numbers man its all about teamwork and how you play. they could have easily sunk us. Their teamwork wasn't great.

@eddythecaptain I'd be fine with three people even since 3 on a gally never feels right.

@gloog said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

@vderickv you just responded with a video of 2man sloop killing a 4man... this is exactly what we are talking about. Now, add two more to that sloop.

Unless they make 4man sloops noticeably more costly, it becomes the best pick all around.

I won't go into a back and forth about scenarios, but in any scenario a 4man sloop will;

1. do its best not to get hit
2. ship harass with a fully functioning 2man crew - easily handling galleon hits, firing back
3. deck harass with 2 more players
   The idea that a half decent sloop will get broadsided and the crew mostly/all killed is not realistic.

If i posted the video of right before this you would see that they had many chances to sink us they parked right next to us at the fort and started cannoning. I just lifted anchor and circled they boarded and proceeded to spawn kill us af few times (the greifing option on the damned came up on its own a few times even the game knew we were getting greifed) as they were on our boat spawn killing but they unsuccessfully spawn killed us because we killed them all while keeping their boat anchored let us get to where they couldn't fire back and many other mistakes and teamwork issues on their end.. All i'm saying is 4 on a sloop isn't going to make a difference if all you care about is boarding and spawn killing the sloop is gonna win.

@gloog said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

@vderickv Boarding and spawn control is literally the meta.

A group failing to control your spawn (and it sounds like it was a long time) is your example? I would definitely not use that as an example for any average, non-random group of players.

That "meta" is up for debate. They failed and we got the fort. obv that "meta" isn't the best method.

@seedy-platypus There's no doubt that if used correctly, the galleon does have a better advantage at medium-far range. Especially if they are in a defensive position.

Although I don't agree with the height difference, since the back roof of the sloop is the same height as the galleon's main deck, so if you ram a galleon you can easily jump onto their ship.

The main point im trying to make, is that overall, the sloop is an easier ship to deal with. The Galley will sink 10x faster than a sloop. If you hit a galley with a gunpowder barrel, they need 2 people to repair the ship. If 2 people don't hop on repairs, then the galley will sink 90% of the time. You need one person on repairs and another bailing water to survive.

On a sloop that is the simplest thing, and you can do so while watching and listening to your ladders to ensure that no one comes on your ship. The distance you need to run just to repair your ship is like 10x less.

Don't even get me started on the anchor...

Overall, the sloop will always win just from how easy it is to manage.

@seedy-platypus Yes, as long as you jump from the roof of the lower deck, behind the anchor. This also isn't needed if you ram with the front part of your ship, since the pole shoots upwards and lets you board regardless.

I looked through a few videos I had and found this one. 1v4 Sloop vs Galleon. This is one of many videos I have, im sure.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kweyyjuKZYA

As you can see, they tried really hard to get their sails up enough to turn around and shoot at me, but they weren't able to because of how slow the ship is. I on the other hand was able to easily maneuver around them and make sure I was never in an angle for their cannons.

All of that teamwork they did, having to bring up the sails together, make sure people are on cannons, turn the heavy helm, etc. all of that took them so long to do. And yet I was able to do it on a sloop, alone. The same things they did, I did aswell, single-handedly.

We were both taking cannon fire from the fort, and I had a few holes during that whole ordeal, but yet I was easily able to deal with my ship as 1 person. I wouldn't be able to do that if I was 1 man on a galley.

@seedy-platypus said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

I maintain a good galleon crew will always beat a good sloop crew, even in 4v4 but without experiencing it first hand, I really don’t know how things will play out. Do we know when 4 man sloops is happening?

Sloops are broken, people just don't see it.

I'm not sure when different crew sizes will be a thing, but I hope they think about this beforehand...

@natsu-v2 That would be impossible to do with the current setup. Even if everyone jumped on one ship, if anyone from the other team dies, they are automatically sent to their other ship. This requires them to stay together and play as 2 different teams.

@businessjjj Its s**t like this that people just don't understand.

@natsu-v2 said in 4-Man Sloop is a TERRIBLE idea... 1 reason only.:

@vderickv I can vouch for him. You take next to zero damage from cannonballs through the lower deck of a sloop. I have seen it firsthand recently because I had to prove this in another thread, you will not die down there. You probably got blunderbussed in the side if you feel like you were killed by a cannonball.

Can you please add proof? Because I can say that's a lie based off what's happened in game to me ultiple times. i died repairing and while trying to eat a banana 2 maybe 3 balls killed me. (And no it wasnt a boarders blunderbuss) Vid proof plz? Il post proof of I can get it.

I agree that 4 man is too much, but I do think it should be a 3 man.

One to three in a sloop would be fine. One to four in a sloop is just silly. Sloops do not need to be a four pirate boat, too small.

@natsu-v2
Okay well until a video is posted (plz post one) I'm going to say that no you're not "invincible" at the lower decks and that it takes 2-3 hits to die. (Personal experience) anyone who says otherwise ill just assume is making up stuff in an attempt to undermine rare or force the game in their desired direction. I have killed people while firing cannons at the side of their sloop when they are fixing their ship. If you were invincible I would say it's probably a bug.