My Feedback for Season 8

  • I want to provide my feedback concerning season 8. Before starting, I want to note that I realize that these reflections are inherently subjective and merely serve to communicate my preferences for the Sea of Thieves (SoT) experience. So, any comments about how you enjoy the grind or how my opinion would be different if I were better at PvP are expected but irrelevant in a conversation about subjective preferences.

    First, I think the idea of on-demand PvP is incredible. The experience of diving under the sea and popping up in a battle is exhilarating. The two new factions make perfect sense and I, and I expect many others, find the cosmetics to be the most valuable in the game. I appreciate the ways provided for increasing experience gains in this new feature.

    Second, I wish there was a way to use the diving under the sea feature as a time to stock up on supplies. Long queue times will make that waiting experience more and more boring.

    Third, I understand that the game mode's development is mostly settled and that this will remain an open-world feature and I think I understand why that is the case. Yet, I wish it were a separate game mode (like the Arena was) where people have the same amount of supplies and are placed in match-making PvP instances like this. Having to resupply after each defeat can be exhausting and work towards motivating the player to stop playing.

    Fourth, I have found that the PvP rewards are what I value most. So, the other things that can be obtained in the game have lost almost all appeal. What was the most fun about SoT was exploring the sandbox, doing PvE content, and engaging in impromptu and spontaneous combat either as the pirate or as the defending adventurer. While I can see how this new mode still has the attacker and the defender, it feels much more like the naval combat of factional militaries rather than piracy. This is because you didn't search people out in this case, you were paired up in a matchmaking system. I understand that you can still play the game the way I described above but the attraction to do this is diminished when you know that the PvP rewards can only be obtained through the grind of the new game feature.

    Fifth, I find the grind to be absurd. Level 1000 seems intuitively unreasonable compared to the level 75 caps of many other factions. Also, level 100 seems a little high for access to the new areas and base curses. Perhaps level 100 would not be so bad if there were not diminishing experience returns as you climb the ranks so that roughly 100 sinks resulted in level 100.

    My preferential suggestions for improvement include, first, reducing the level cap by 50% so that the rewards for level 1000 are available at level 500. Second, to remove the diminishing returns on experience gained for sinking ships so that obtaining the rewards for level 100 and above does not feel so exhaustively tedious. Third, perhaps consider dropping the requirements for entry into the various factional hideouts to 75 to better cohere with the max levels of the other factions.

    My final reflection is to say that while this update felt amazing at first, it now feels tedious and like the only thing worth doing. The final result is that I cannot help but wonder if another game would be more rewarding. Again, these are just my subjective preferences and I am sure that many agree and disagree with me. So, perhaps some middle ground can be reached? Thank you, Rare, for your hard work on this game and for continuing to provide new content and improving your security to cut down on cheaters who depreciate the experience.

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  • I'm not fond of what they decided to attach to a pvp grind but in general this is just the game now.

    I'd like fish decorations but I'm not gonna fish, I'd like the curses but I'm not gonna do contrived pvp enough to get them any time soon.

    I think it's just the game now, people do what they enjoy and hope a cosmetic they like aren't thrown behind mega grinds they aren't gonna do lol

    It's much less everything is for everyone in direction now, kinda just how it goes.

  • @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I think it's just the game now, people do what they enjoy and hope a cosmetic they like aren't thrown behind mega grinds they aren't gonna do lol

    It's much less everything is for everyone in direction now, kinda just how it goes.

    I whole heartedly disagree, and think these sorts of responses belittle player input into the game. Sure, it is the current state of the game, but it wasn't less than a week ago. One could make a case that it was the outcry for PvE and PvP modes thats pushed Rare to make a change.

    If the grind were more akin to previous grinds it would make more sense, but 1000 is absurd. The grind for lvl 30 Athena is steep, and its only 30 levels!

    A guy who plays video games for a living/streamer was able to attain 100 and get his ghost curse in roughly 30hrs of grinding the same kind of combat over and over. That is the full length requirement to beat some games of more or lesser value but that is 1/10th of the requirement to reach max AND the values decrease as you level. If its 1:1 from 100 on to 1000 that means he'll have to grind for 300hrs just to attain his max rank 1000.

    If you plan to get both sides that number just doubles. 300hrs is already crazy, but 600hrs to achieve both sides cap is ludicrous.

  • Fifth, I find the grind to be absurd

    If you unlocked everything there was in a video game. What is left for you to do? Hmm?

    Mostly you quit and wait for new stuff to be added.

  • @burnbacon
    I mean, purpose behind playing the game is subjective. I play to play with friends and family, we pursue many different ends.

    That does not change the fact that 1000 ranks per faction is absurd. Not to mention that its incongruent with the way any of the other factions have functioned up to this point.

  • @castuscorvus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I think it's just the game now, people do what they enjoy and hope a cosmetic they like aren't thrown behind mega grinds they aren't gonna do lol

    It's much less everything is for everyone in direction now, kinda just how it goes.

    I whole heartedly disagree, and think these sorts of responses belittle player input into the game. Sure, it is the current state of the game, but it wasn't less than a week ago. One could make a case that it was the outcry for PvE and PvP modes thats pushed Rare to make a change.

    If the grind were more akin to previous grinds it would make more sense, but 1000 is absurd. The grind for lvl 30 Athena is steep, and its only 30 levels!

    A guy who plays video games for a living/streamer was able to attain 100 and get his ghost curse in roughly 30hrs of grinding the same kind of combat over and over. That is the full length requirement to beat some games of more or lesser value but that is 1/10th of the requirement to reach max AND the values decrease as you level. If its 1:1 from 100 on to 1000 that means he'll have to grind for 300hrs just to attain his max rank 1000.

    If you plan to get both sides that number just doubles. 300hrs is already crazy, but 600hrs to achieve both sides cap is ludicrous.

    Up until season 7 I unlocked and bought with gold all the cosmetics since I have played

    I get it, but the direction of the game is the direction of the game and they clearly made a choice in season 7. They chose to take even more of an activity hit by running off long term players for their direction of not everything is for everyone, to a pretty significant degree.

    This is just carrying on what they started in season 7.

    Do I think a lot of this is unfortunate timing and not anywhere near the time in history it would have worked best? yeah

    but it's the direction now. They aren't going to undo 2 seasons worth of direction anytime soon even if they nerf the requirements for a bit. It's just not an unlock everything kind of game anymore, outside of larger coordination efforts and streaming content for clicks.

  • @wolfmanbush
    Meanwhile they've already deleted a previous running part of the game in Arenas.

    Clearly they're open to change, while trying to maintain some sort of balance in their player base. All that seems to be attempted here, is to appeal to the devs for a course correction. They may not correct, but its worth voicing instead of just accepting what they've dished out.

  • @angelologist said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    Third, I understand that the game mode's development is mostly settled and that this will remain an open-world feature and I think I understand why that is the case. Yet, I wish it were a separate game mode (like the Arena was) where people have the same amount of supplies and are placed in match-making PvP instances like this. Having to resupply after each defeat can be exhausting and work towards motivating the player to stop playing.

    Fourth, I have found that the PvP rewards are what I value most. So, the other things that can be obtained in the game have lost almost all appeal. What was the most fun about SoT was exploring the sandbox, doing PvE content, and engaging in impromptu and spontaneous combat either as the pirate or as the defending adventurer. While I can see how this new mode still has the attacker and the defender, it feels much more like the naval combat of factional militaries rather than piracy. This is because you didn't search people out in this case, you were paired up in a matchmaking system. I understand that you can still play the game the way I described above but the attraction to do this is diminished when you know that the PvP rewards can only be obtained through the grind of the new game feature.

    While I agree with most of what you have to say here, I disagree with these two points.

    To your third point, I have found this being a part of the regular game quite fun. Albeit most of my PvP or PvE play has been defensive. It is rather fun to sail up on a pair that are duking it out and add to the chaos. Or to be doing my normal thing and get a banner that I'm being attacked. I think if you were to try this game mode in defense instead of offense you might find this aspect more enjoyable being in the open world. I would also note, that getting sunk is the same its always been, whether its a player who jumps you or an unfortunate ghost ship incident. Just means you prepare for a fight like you'd prepare for any other player encounter. Thoroughly.

    To your fourth point, there's still plenty to be done and to do with others separated from this game mode. It's the new hotness, and sure there are cosmetics locked behind it, but there's a heap of other content to be had in this game. I have no problem with them locking certain content behind PvP, even value it. The problem I have and share with you is the steepness of that grind.

    I've also found the ability to continue piracy in the old fashioned way not only remains, but has an added twist to it. Piracy certainly seems to abound more in the seas, even "good guy" athenas preying on random encounters for their goods and resources to up their multipliers quickly. I would also push back that it feels much more like naval combat. I've found that very little of the PvP is actually naval in nature, and more boarding/swords/guns than cannons and good helmsmenship.

    All in all though, the real problem with this is the grind. @Devs - please fix it.
    Not asking for handouts, but it needs some fine tuning.

  • I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

  • @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

  • @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory

    This - well said.

  • @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

    As I said, that is the point. All rewards apart from one are well obtainable by everyone with the max being 200.

    1000 is a cosmetic that is suppoused to be real exclusive.

    Someone does not need to "no life" the game by the way. This is thanks to the streak system.

    People can get absurd amounts of wins. Look at mixel for example. With massive streaks, those 1000 rewards will still take time, but not nearly as much as you think.

    So when you someone wearing that golden skeleton/ghost curse, you will know that they sunk countless ships back to back to get it.

    This makes the reward special, as only a small group of great players will be able to get them in a reasonable time.

    I personally don't see myself EVER getting the gold versions, but I am fine with it. A player does not need to have everything. Missing ONE cosmetic is not the end of the world.

  • @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

    I dunno why people so often approach suing like it's some sort of victory in something like this

    It's years of stress and money to try to get around what someone agreed to when they accepted the TOS and would likely be lost money and time, not any sort of gain.

    They have a grind in the game that the people it's there for will grind out in weeks or months. That's not something different than the game has always been, it appeals to some people and not others, just like every other grind.

    They aren't doing anything that would get them in any trouble on this.

  • @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

    I dunno why people so often approach suing like it's some sort of victory in something like this

    It's years of stress and money to try to get around what someone agreed to when they accepted the TOS and would likely be lost money and time, not any sort of gain.

    They have a grind in the game that the people it's there for will grind out in weeks or months. That's not something different than the game has always been, it appeals to some people and not others, just like every other grind.

    They aren't doing anything that would get them in any trouble on this.

    Look up "Hold your p** for a Wii", or "100 grand candy bar lawsuit".

    The point is that people will do whatever is needed at times to get something... does it make the company immune to lawsuits if explaining that they are not responsible? No... it doesn't.

    A TOS does not give blanket protection over things like lawsuits, that is why lawsuits happen.

    It just makes it harder to do it.

    Just remember though, in this day and age, anyone can be sued for anything.

  • @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

    As I said, that is the point. All rewards apart from one are well obtainable by everyone with the max being 200.

    1000 is a cosmetic that is suppoused to be real exclusive.

    Someone does not need to "no life" the game by the way. This is thanks to the streak system.

    People can get absurd amounts of wins. Look at mixel for example. With massive streaks, those 1000 rewards will still take time, but not nearly as much as you think.

    So when you someone wearing that golden skeleton/ghost curse, you will know that they sunk countless ships back to back to get it.

    This makes the reward special, as only a small group of great players will be able to get them in a reasonable time.

    I personally don't see myself EVER getting the gold versions, but I am fine with it. A player does not need to have everything. Missing ONE cosmetic is not the end of the world.

    You ignore the greed of man, then.

  • @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    I see a lot of people using the "1000 levels are absurd!" Argument. But they never mention the spacing of the cosmetics.

    All cosmetic rewards are given between 20 and 200.

    1000 is for one cosmetic that is suppoused to be a massive flex. Something that not anyone is suppoused to have.

    Any person with a life/family will never be able to get it. That's not a grind. That is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    I'm old enough to remember people ruining their health and in turn some people dying for a Wii.. Or a chance for a 100 grand, which happens to be a candy bar and not money.

    People lost their jobs over this type of thing, and honestly this is dangerous and risky territory.

    As I said, that is the point. All rewards apart from one are well obtainable by everyone with the max being 200.

    1000 is a cosmetic that is suppoused to be real exclusive.

    Someone does not need to "no life" the game by the way. This is thanks to the streak system.

    People can get absurd amounts of wins. Look at mixel for example. With massive streaks, those 1000 rewards will still take time, but not nearly as much as you think.

    So when you someone wearing that golden skeleton/ghost curse, you will know that they sunk countless ships back to back to get it.

    This makes the reward special, as only a small group of great players will be able to get them in a reasonable time.

    I personally don't see myself EVER getting the gold versions, but I am fine with it. A player does not need to have everything. Missing ONE cosmetic is not the end of the world.

    You ignore the greed of man, then.

    I just explained how only one cosmetic will be extremly rare with all others being obtainable by "People that have family" as you say, how it will not take too long for those that can do crazy streaks,

    And you just say "man are greedy, I do not care nor I have a counter argument that makes sense".

  • @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    Just remember though, in this day and age, anyone can be sued for anything.

    and most go nowhere or at best recover some costs with a settlement that is designed to get people under nda for money that is nowhere near what people seem to think it is.

  • @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @imperatormorsus said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    @wolfmanbush said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    Just remember though, in this day and age, anyone can be sued for anything.

    and most go nowhere or at best recover some costs with a settlement that is designed to get people under nda for money that is nowhere near what people seem to think it is.

    Agreed, but once news of it going on happens, blood is in the water. I've lived too long to be hopeful for what humanity as a whole is capable of. Sadly I have seen the other side rear its ugly head way too often to think goodwill survives vs human nature.

  • I find that one of the fundamental aspects of what makes Sea Of Thieves a phenomenal game is the fact that there is a mountain of content that players must "climb" to reach. But having a level 100 curse, and the only variant that's available takes legitimately 10X LONGER is absurd. I understand that Rare wants to give players an incentive to stay in the game, but the obstacle of 1000 levels of Pvp mixed with constant restocking, hacking, poor sbmm, and long queue times make this grind a hill that isn't worth dying on.

  • @thorumsu said in My Feedback for Season 8:

    As I said, that is the point. All rewards apart from one are well obtainable by everyone with the max being 200.

    1000 is a cosmetic that is suppoused to be real exclusive.

    Someone does not need to "no life" the game by the way. This is thanks to the streak system.

    People can get absurd amounts of wins. Look at mixel for example. With massive streaks, those 1000 rewards will still take time, but not nearly as much as you think.

    So when you someone wearing that golden skeleton/ghost curse, you will know that they sunk countless ships back to back to get it.

    This makes the reward special, as only a small group of great players will be able to get them in a reasonable time.

    I personally don't see myself EVER getting the gold versions, but I am fine with it. A player does not need to have everything. Missing ONE cosmetic is not the end of the world.

    How is someone doesn't need to "no life" the game because of the streak system exactly?!
    you only look at this with just 1 perspective (which is mixel's perspective and anyone with his skill which are a huge minority in the game), try looking the other way, you will find that streak system doesn't benefit most players that get into pvp in anyway because you will keep sinking due to the dysfunctionality of the current poorly implemented match making system. and even if the match making works fine in the future, you won't be achieving 4 streaks as common as you think, because its a 50% chance that you would win, multiply that by its self 4 times and your chance of getting a 4 streak is is 6.25% and a whopping 93.75% that you would lose.

    and for the rewards obtainable at 200, those are also very far ahead, leveling to 100 in of its self is nearly impossible atm, I have spent 6 hrs today of my weekend with friends that I invited to play with me on a brig and a galleon, just to find out that we would constantly get matched against DA sail sweatlords all the time for 6 hrs straight, 6 hrs of just sinking and loses, and all I got was just 1 level out of losing all those times, it almost felt like Rare is using us as cannon fodder for the sweats to lower their waiting time, so they just throw us into the fray, my takeaway from this is that the match making system is complete garbage, and the pvp progression system favours only the sweaty content creators and the sweatlords.

  • I play frequently, and I do not use the new hourglass mechanic to "opt-in" to PvP. I have been playing adventure (I'm a PvE player) like I always do. And I have been targeted and harassed more since the season started than I have been in previous seasons. Season 8 I thought was marketed as taking some of the heat off of PvE players. From my perspective, season 8 has done the opposite. From my perspective, more heat is being placed on the PvE players.

    So, this season created an "opt-in" for PvP, however PvP players would rather still prey upon those who are "not opting in". Hopefully Rare will develop as season when players can also "opt-out" of PvP. I think that can be done as easily as not flying an Emissary flag. No raising a flag then no harassment from other players and the ability to grind the environment all you want for the base rewards. Raise an Emissary flag for greater rewards and you are "opting-in" to the chance battles that SoT has always had.

    As for "risk vs reward". The REWARD is not gold earned in a game, and Risk is not making play-style choices within that game. As players, we gauge how much of our irreplaceable time we have to play a game versus how much enjoyment we get out of our time playing. Players RISK their "time" for the amount of "enjoyment" they receive as a REWARD. Plating 60 minutes just to have some toxic player(s) start harassing you destroys the entire play session. Season 8 update did not address this, and from my experience since season 8 rolled out it is worse now for the PvE player.

    Rare... please provide an "opt-in" to PvE. PvP for those who do not wish to participate is more than enough to drive people away.

  • Sea of Thieves is probably the most egregious example of disrespecting the players time of any live service game ive ever played. It makes Destiny 2 look innocent. Its only gotten worse with each passing season with content that feels infeasible to do in a reasonable time especially if you play solo and in short sessions. Stuff like sea forts and a few of the Adventures are exceptions.

    Now what if you also play other games? What if you have other obligations? I think these are valid points to bring up as with any live service. People are going to want to engage with the new update, thats why they log on after their break from the previous season. But i assume a lot of people myself included tried a few PvP matches, got frustrated and/or tired of it and stopped. The downtime, game mechanics and lack of quality of life kneecap it. So then the average person has nothing to do now for another 3 months until season 9 aside from finish their plunder pass.

    There is such a thing as TOO much grind by the way, this player base is brainwashed into thinking its normal. Multiversus is being raked over coals right now for its grind (and terrible reward structure).

    So i guess congratulations, a tiny fraction of your audience is satisfied with the update just like how they were satisfied with Arena while alienating the ones who genuinely want to play and see the new stuff. Ive liked a lot of the suggestions posted on this forum especially from veterans so i would hope Rare realizes a few quick changes could get someone like me back to try the PvP again.

  • It would be great if I could get a shelter and the most basic curse at level 75. This seems reasonable because the experience value required for 75-100 levels is greater than the experience value required for levels 1 to 25. Based on the calculation, I felt that I needed a period of approximately 3 months, but if it was level 1 when 1 ship sank, the light user would be able to reach the basic reward in about 1 month and 10 days. That's not a bad idea. Before that, your opinion seemed to be satisfied with the current system, but I wonder why you suggested lowering the hurdles

  • I have to sink 2.5 ships to achieve the new faction 1 level up. So I calculated the time of three months. This will continue to increase, so by level 70, four ships must be sunk to be able to do the level up. That's why I made that calculation considering the level of the second half, and under the conditions you suggested, 10-20 days to 1 month based on 4 hours of play a day, you'll be able to achieve a new base and basic curse after achieving level 75. Also, I think an isolated map like the previous arena is helpful. I've already seen four videos that match tdmcrew during matchmaking, and I'm saving them on my personal hd disk. I agree with you that this won't happen if you fight on a completely isolated map, and that it will reduce boredom if you make it easy to supply goods.

  • Also, when you said that the level of 1000 is high in the current situation, I pointed out you about the strictness of the individual, but I think 500 level is appropriate at this level. It's worth doing both mathematically and in real gameplay. Users who have previously achieved 100 levels have already exceeded 170 levels. At this rate, I think the game mode of season 8 can be maintained continuously when your conditions are applied, and it's worth a try for light users. The golden curse will take three to four months, but I think it's worth it. Hard users and those who enjoy it lightly but try will get it. absolutely

  • If this condition is met, I believe PvE users and new users will be able to actively participate in PvP. Through this, I think it will be possible to solve the problem of longer matchmaking time and to improve combat skills quickly among game mode inflow users, so that it will be possible to play well with stagnant middle users at the middle level. Also, because the level goes up one level when you sink one ship, they'll work harder because they think, "Oh, if I knock down another 70 ships, I'll be rewarded." As experience requirements do not continue to grow, the motivation to understand quickly and do so becomes clear.

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