An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback)

  • RealStyli
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    So I've been playing solo Hourglass the last couple of weeks, trying to unlock the skelly curse so I can then work on the Burning Blade commendations. I'm trying not to make it a grind, aiming for about 5 levels every day I play, and keeping sessions to 3-5 hours - I'm now at 65 in Servants.

    Even with 60% wins, it's rarely ever "fun" though. I have to stick on rock music in the background to keep myself from losing my mind to the monotony and the shear number of edge-runner-campers wasting my time. I've gotten to a point where I just scuttle if I meet them, even if quick wins suits them. Even then, handing them the win, they're usually very toxic about it. I just can't be bothered playing the game like that, I'd rather sink quickly to an all-out assault than deal with those players.

    Not that I really blame them, if they're good at TDM, bad at naval, and that's the quickest way to level a badly designed grind, then it's encouraged. But I can't imagine that's the gameplay Rare imagined when they came up with the notion?

    I've had some epic naval fights with some cool folk, and GGs all round, but they're very few and far between and it really discourages the want to run streaks when I know chances are I'll lose to a camper next fight.

    I guess this is kind of a vent. But I just wish the mode was actually enjoyable to play, and I didn't have to spend 20-30 mins each time just trying to motivate myself to play it.

    I don't know if anyone else feels the same way?
    Does anyone actually enjoy the mode, or is it only good for grinding curses?
    Do Rare only look at the numbers and think it's a very popular mode that players enjoy? (The way they promo upcoming boosts, makes me think they realise how unfun it is.)

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  • Europa4033
    Commander
    Insider

    Speaking for myself, I get burned out on it very quickly, doing the same thing over and over and over again. Log in, buy/gather supplies, raise emissary, vote to dive, rise up, PvP the exact same way as hundreds of times before, depending on my opponent (if they run, I simply sail out and repeat). Win my match, collect any resources they may still have (usually not a lot), and vote to dive again with the hopes of not meeting a cheater, runner, or exploiter.

    Again, again, and again. It gets boring very fast, and I get burned out because of it, so I tend to avoid it until bonus weekends. Wish they changed it up a bit, as many here have made awesome suggestions to make the mode much more enjoyable than what it currently is. I sadly don't see them changing anything about it. Ironic that you can win a match without even landing a single cannonball.

  • WolfManbush
    Champion

    The key to getting the adventurers is to implement adventure.

    Instead of the fight/fight/fight/fight design, boost the fight/adventure/fight design.

    Recently I suggested adding bottle quests (no hoarding) for the winner and the one that loses. A bottle quest for a cof and some decent treasure to the winner and a really solid bottle quest for the one that loses.

    I'd do it once and a while and that's the type of player they need, people that aren't interested in the contrived fight but will fight for adventure.

    There are a lot of ways to offer adventure rewards. The better reward for the winner and a solid reward for the one that loses.

    That's the key to healthy and enjoyable hourglass in adventure, imo.

    Add very basic requirements to the losing reward, just shooting cannons and stuff, one balls lock in the reward. Just basic incentives that anyone can do.

    Diving to fight for an adventure reward fits in with organic play which is an important design to keep adventurers interested.

    I also think they should allow region hopping via in-game feature no matter the ping, lets people mix it up. Lets people avoid each other if they want, new and fresh fights, it just makes sense for HG.

  • Rotten Rocko
    Marauder
    Founder

    @realstyli I did mostly solo sloop and the mode is fun... At times when you aren't encountering runners, I don't mind the tdm people a lot of the time you just need to land one shot as they are trying to board then avoid killing them when they are on your ship and you'll win. But now I find myself playing galleon most of the time with a guild I've joined, just because the matches are quicker and hence funnier. They desperately need to do something about running it just kills the fun and can go on for so long, if you don't have the chain shots to stop them. Any match I've actually enjoyed has been about 20 mins at the most and it's all out combat. I really hope they address this soon because putting a fully gally crew together can take a while and I miss just logging and getting straight to it when I've had an hour to kill

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Time Limits.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
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    I'm on the fence about the time limit thing, I do think it would help in some aspects but I worry it would punish players who are genuinely trying to win but run out of time because of runners.

    I, personally, think that there should be a way to reward losing but participating and reward players for risking a streak (not as much as a win in either case, obviously).

    Maybe an Overwatch-style upvote system for GGs? There are times when I've won an epic fight that went on for ages and genuinely felt the loser deserved more than the base loss rep.

    @rotten-rocko said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    @realstyli I don't mind the tdm people a lot of the time you just need to land one shot as they are trying to board then avoid killing them when they are on your ship and you'll win.

    Yep. I've done this a few times, but it can be hard to land shots on them when they just keep running to the edge of the map.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @realstyli

    I really like HG, and it’s been a staple in my sessions for quite a while now. I have like 250 in guardians and 430 or something in servants. I often end up hopping servers looking for interesting PvE content and/or interesting encounters, only to give up and dive to HG because I know I’ll get instant entertainment.

    Solo HG definitely has the highest potential for drawn out slow fights. It’s more difficult to be lethal to begin with since you’re in charge of everything and that takes away from cannon time, and it’s more difficult to chase someone down for the same reason. With that said, I do really enjoy solo fights. I usually play duo sloop or brig, with a dash of galley and solo, but most of my allegiance is still from all of the solo fights I did reaching my initial goal of 200 in each faction, so I have plenty of solo HG hours. I enjoy having all the responsibilities and testing myself versus someone in the same boat (punnin). It is difficult and that makes it more satisfying to me. I put in a lot of effort getting 200 in each faction, and it’s by far my greatest accomplishment in this game simply because of the difficulty and resilience required.

    I do think that once you reach your goal (presumably 100) that you’ll feel less pressured/obligated to do HG, and because of that you’ll probably enjoy HG more. I joined a guild after reaching 200 in each faction, and nobody in my guild had 100 in any faction at that time. I did HG with them religiously for a while, and we still do it frequently. None of those matches felt like a grind to me, they were/are just pure ship pirate PvP enjoyment. I can think back to my journey to 200 and recall periods or milestones during that journey since I was so focused on that goal, but after 200 in each, it’s all a blur. I more than doubled my servants since joining the guild and I can’t really recall much detail about that, it just happened during normal play without thinking too much about it. My guild has since acquired 2 new ghost curses, one more skelly curse, and they are getting close to having both curses as well. They report a similar feeling after reaching 100, and they’re still doing HG regularly.

    HG is also fantastic for getting better at the game. It’s not the easiest game to get PvP repetition, but HG offers the best bet. I saw myself and guild mates transform into empowered pirates who now feel free to play the game without much worry, or without getting bent out of shape about losing loot or sinking, and we can thank HG for that.

  • ItzEggward
    Marauder
    Insider

    @realstyli Yes as someone with 3.5k allegiance I love the mode, its why I play. Its hard to love right now though, especially solo. I got my first 1k solo and back then it was really fun but now most NA servers are dead. Best thing to do is pass the time between good fights with music, if you are really committed use a free vpn to hop to dallas or new york, those stamps do better. On a good day hourglass is god tier but those days are few and far between now.

  • OneDeviousDog
    Captain
    Insider

    I started the hg grind just before this past event. I was level 13 and by the end of the event I was level 48. I found zero cheaters and quite a few loss farmers who simply passed by me and continued out of the combat area. Some folks just raised sails and sat in the middle of the combat zone asking to roll dice for the win. I had no problems with any of that and almost everyone was friendly. Even ran into a gold Skelly who just wanted to have a tdm match on the boat with knives and blunderbuss to see how the update effected the match. In the end he gave me the win and a gg for playing. Definitely not the experience I expected after many horror stories I heard going into hg. I realize that's probably not a normal experience but nonetheless what I encountered. After the event ended, I continued hg until I hit level 50. That was my wall. After experiencing the events raised reputation reward and then back to the incredibly small reputation reward, I was done until another event comes along. So demoralizing lol. Great respect for any and all who choose this game mode daily. It's a grind that only self hating pirates could love. So painful. On a side note, from the limited time I was grinding hg, my confidence going into fights was improving. Albeit until I ran into the occasional GOD who simply clears the board with a hand swipe haha.

  • Capt Greldik
    Master

    @onedeviousdog said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    I started the hg grind just before this past event. I was level 13 and by the end of the event I was level 48. I found zero cheaters and quite a few loss farmers who simply passed by me and continued out of the combat area. Some folks just raised sails and sat in the middle of the combat zone asking to roll dice for the win. I had no problems with any of that and almost everyone was friendly. Even ran into a gold Skelly who just wanted to have a tdm match on the boat with knives and blunderbuss to see how the update effected the match. In the end he gave me the win and a gg for playing. Definitely not the experience I expected after many horror stories I heard going into hg. I realize that's probably not a normal experience but nonetheless what I encountered. After the event ended, I continued hg until I hit level 50. That was my wall. After experiencing the events raised reputation reward and then back to the incredibly small reputation reward, I was done until another event comes along. So demoralizing lol. Great respect for any and all who choose this game mode daily. It's a grind that only self hating pirates could love. So painful. On a side note, from the limited time I was grinding hg, my confidence going into fights was improving. Albeit until I ran into the occasional GOD who simply clears the board with a hand swipe haha.

    That’s actually generally my experience in HG. I don’t usually hear much from my opponents at all, and if anything it’s gg. Not to say I don’t encounter angry kids sometimes, I do, but for me HG is much less angry than organic play.

    It’s great that you’re already seeing the benefits of playing HG in your regular sessions. That’s huge IMO, it really opens up the game once you have some confidence.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
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    @capt-greldik

    Some good points, and I really do hope that does end up being the case when I hit 100.

    @OneDeviousDog

    I can relate to some of that, I have met some genuinely cool people (like I said in my reply above, I really wish we could reward them for good sportsmanship if we beat them).

    But a lot of the time it is camper-runners - any toxic players I've come across are almost exclusively in that category. I've had a few loss farmers but it doesn't seem to be as rampant.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
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    Founder

    @realstyli said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    I'm on the fence about the time limit thing, I do think it would help in some aspects but I worry it would punish players who are genuinely trying to win but run out of time because of runners.

    I think it would reduce the number of runners. Half the reason they do it is because they have unlimited time to reset or give you the run around trying to make you quit, which seems to be working. The biggest problem is the streak system, which makes it less likely that you'll want to drop out if you have a couple wins under your belt. Getting stuck in longer matches also affects queue times for everyone else in the same region/stamp.

    With time limits, constantly resetting isn't going to be as beneficial because you're on the clock and you can't run forever either. I think people who are going for wins are probably going to be better off timing out and going up against another opponent rather than chasing players around. Players will cycle through queues at more regular intervals, leading to quicker and more frequent matching.

  • SweetSandMan
    Legend
    Insider

    I got my curses back in S8 and have really only done one-off battles occasionally since then.

    It's just not fun (for me) anymore. The excitement wore off quickly. Not sure if it was the angry dice rollers, the heavy resetters, the runners, or a combination of those things that really started turning me off, but every time I go back to play it again, I am reminded why I stopped playing it so long ago.

    Even with my 80+ win percentage (probably about 95% solo), it's just not fun. Even when the fights are evenly matched, it usually just winds up being 2 ships demasted right by each other, managing repairs, sniping and shooting cannonballs with both parties praying for a one ball or a snipe to hit while they're below 70% health.

    It's monotonous. It's repetitive. It's tedious. Progression is slow. I have zero interest going for the gold curse in either faction. None. Not because I don't have the skill to do it, but because it's just not fun anymore.

    There have been A TON of ideas on how to make Hourglass more fun, more engaging by more of the community, and less of an unfun slog. Hopefully Rare listens and doesn't just leave Hourglass to be what it is and nothing more. I'm doubtful, though.

    Maybe I'll occasionally engage more when fight nights start up, but it's not going to have legs.

    All hourglass does is remind me how much better the format of Arena was 😢

  • Th3 Tater
    Marauder

    @realstyli

    It would be alot more fun if you could do all the shenanigans they've removed for the streamers still.

    And yes, I'm talking about defending next to a volcano. And at Tribute Peak. And with pals. You should be able to surface to fight crewed BB.

    Took 80% of the strategy out of it. Heaven forbid someone out think someone...

  • ItzEggward
    Marauder
    Insider

    @th3-tater u want players to be able to hid in the red sea for hourglass matches?

  • Th3 Tater
    Marauder

    @itzeggward

    Absolutely!

    And have the whole server there waiting on them.
    And to make them surface into an active volcano,fort battle, fleet battle, a storm, with a large island in between, somewhere I've collected 30 or so kegs and spread them out around the surface area.

    I might start loss farming if I knew I could find interesting and clever pirate shenanigans waiting for me instead of some sweats.

    But I like fun. So I don't bother with it.

  • Arias1101
    Seafarer
    Insider
    Founder

    Solo sloop HG always was a pain for me too.

    When I do some, I now just sail towards to the ennemy ship, try a lazy board or something.
    If I die, I Just give up and give the win.
    If my ship sinks while I'm away, same things.
    Or else, I get the win by sailing out of bound the ennemy ship.

    It as been quicker and less frustrating this way, but I mostly avoid solo pvp now.

    Duo sloop is nice
    Brig is the best imo

    But solo sure is awfull.
    Good luck out there

  • BurnBacon
    Vanguard
    Insider

    So I've been playing solo Hourglass the last couple of weeks, trying to unlock the skelly curse so I can then work on the Burning Blade commendations. I'm trying not to make it a grind, aiming for about 5 levels every day I play, and keeping sessions to 3-5 hours - I'm now at 65 in Servants.

    Good Job. Many people aren't that dedicated

    I've gotten to a point where I just scuttle if I meet them, even if quick wins suits them. Even then, handing them the win, they're usually very toxic about it.

    How are you so close to them to hear there toxic, but can't shoot them??

    Does anyone actually enjoy the mode, or is it only good for grinding curses?

    well sadly, players treat it like a Mode...so that just sets the mind the wrong way. It main construct was simple: Do players want Pvp without sailing around looking? yes? Insant pvp found. The Curses are just a "reward" for sticking with the pvp.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
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    @burnbacon said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    How are you so close to them to hear there toxic, but can't shoot them??

    They shoot out and board - not always successfully but, when they do, they camp and sail you out of the circle.

  • ItzEggward
    Marauder
    Insider

    @th3-tater You seem to have no experience waiting on a red sea player, that's not pirate shenanigans that's just not playing. Also you can definitely still get invaded in active world events idk where you got the idea that you couldn't.

  • Th3 Tater
    Marauder

    @itzeggward

    That's why you have the TT9 checkpoint...

  • ItzEggward
    Marauder
    Insider

    @th3-tater Seems like your proposing a change that would just make things a little more inconvenient for players, without adding any interesting mechanics to combat. I don't know why you are dying on this laissez-faire concept for hourglass, but it shows that you aren't interested in actually making the game mode better.

  • HiradC
    Legend
    Insider

    Solo hourglass is worse for these types of playstyle. I had one person constantly crud launch to me but then complain when I blunderbomb him off ladder. He prefers tdm, I prefer naval. Get over it 😅. Try duos or larger ships for more consistent fights although you will still get crews that reset early

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
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    @hiradc said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    Solo hourglass is worse for these types of playstyle.

    Yeah, I figure it would be.

    I had one person constantly crud launch to me but then complain when I blunderbomb him off ladder. He prefers tdm, I prefer naval. Get over it 😅.

    All too familiar story.

    Try duos or larger ships for more consistent fights although you will still get crews that reset early

    I work an irregular shift, so solos is more viable for me most of the time. Plus it helps me improve my solo game, including trying to figure out the new sails.

  • HiradC
    Legend
    Insider

    @realstyli fair enough, I have struggled since the speed changes in solo. Can hit cannons easy enough but doing a spiral feels so inconsistent now.

  • RealStyli
    Vanguard
    Insider

    @hiradc said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    @realstyli fair enough, I have struggled since the speed changes in solo. Can hit cannons easy enough but doing a spiral feels so inconsistent now.

    Yeah, it's extremely difficult to pull it off without constantly running back and forth to adjust the sails and wheel now. So solo is a lot more work, for sure.

  • Thamb0
    Master
    Insider

    It would be nice if you could choose hourglass at the main menu, so that if you open your crew or join an open crew, they will all be wanting to do HG as well. On top of the many, many, other ideas that people have come up with to make the game mode better, I primarily wish that if you dive to an HG match, then you get a TON of extra supplies for free. If you sink, it's all gone and if you win, then you'll have enough for the next match. Lots of crews do have some decent starting supps, but many including myself just go in with basic supps since it's such a hassle buying everything before every fight, but that also means when we sink someone with basic supps, we now have next to nothing and have to sail somewhere for more supps. Just fill our barrels when we dive please. It is a supposed to be PVP on demand, so quickening some aspects might be beneficial.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    Chances are these players are actually better at naval than TDM, and that's why they're on your boat practicing TDM. You would probably benefit massively from doing the same.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @thamb0 Just buy captaincy and fill your pockets. This is more than enough to snowball on a sloop. Add crates for the bigger ships.

    If you struggle to win enough fights to snowball, I promise you more supplies won't help.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @d3adst1ck Why not use the mode specifically designed to give you the opportunity to improve at PvP, to improve at a core aspect of PvP (catching runners and ending fights)?

    The problem is players tunnel visioning on wins and streaks to speedrun their curse instead of trying to learn/improve.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @sweetsandman Ah yes, the much better format of spawncamping the swabbie open crew and digging up chests, while the good crews ignore the game mode and TDM on the fort.

    Hourglass is literally what you make of it. It's monotonous and repetitive if you play monotonously and repetitively. Escape the meta and improve at different scenarios. Run matches where you turtle, run matches where you only tdm, run matches where you go for cross boat snipes only. There's a guy who used to specifically defend against invasions at smuggler's bay and drop kegs from the top after kiting his enemies.

    The catch is you can only do these things if you let go of the incessant ego-driven need to win/speed run your curse/levels.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @worst-tdmer said in An Honest Opinion Of Hourglass (Feedback):

    @d3adst1ck Why not use the mode specifically designed to give you the opportunity to improve at PvP, to improve at a core aspect of PvP (catching runners and ending fights)?

    The problem is players tunnel visioning on wins and streaks to speedrun their curse instead of trying to learn/improve.

    Because I can and have done that in Adventure. I also have a choice on whether I want to keep chasing or go do something else interesting. In hourglass I'm locked in until someone sinks or quits and I don't want to have to chase people around.

    I want Hourglass to be quick fights. I can't get that in Adventure.

  • Worst TDMer
    Marauder

    @d3adst1ck So if you've improved so much in adventure, why are runners such a problem for you?

    If you want quick fights, then make them quick fights. If you can't make them quick fights, then maybe you should take the opportunity to learn how to shorten your fights.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @worst-tdmer They are a problem for Hourglass on a whole, because they deter people from continuing to play it. It's a time drag, no matter how good you are at dealing with it.

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