Killing a game, more than ever

@ticklepantzz I think they want to maintain the tension that comes from the possibility of PvP, but don't want PvP to be the only point of the game. Which is why Joe is on record saying that player count on a server was set up so as to make player encounters rarer and more interesting; always a threat, never the main mechanic. That's just my opinion though :)

@vorondil1 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@ticklepantzz I think they want to maintain the tension that comes from the possibility of PvP, but don't want PvP to be the only point of the game. Which is why Joe is on record saying that player count on a server was set up so as to make player encounters rarer and more interesting; always a threat, never the main mechanic. That's just my opinion though :)

Eh, I wont argue that but dosent change most people absolute disdaine for the nerfs to movement related to gun of which will have impact on the actual PVP mode.

In any case as many have mentionned until people started finding excuses and going off on useless tangents the nerf to movement the sword play is just dull now that was whole point of the post and its gone from Joe Neate my best friend in whole world said we should all hold hands and be merry.

Sea of Friends.

@vorondil1 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@ticklepantzz @vDerickv you have both been around too long to really think SoT is all about killing other players every chance you get. Just look at their content updates -- consistently, all events have been clearly designed to force players to work cooperatively. Hungering Deep, Cursed Sails, Skeleton Thrones, etc; all of these required cooperation. The Arena is the first major content drop that encourages PvP (Reaper was the only minor one, and even that was just kind of adopted as a PvP mechanic, not necessarily intended as such).

So I've given speculative (yes, I admit it's speculation) evidence that the major push of SoT is for cooperation. What evidence do you have (even speculative) that SoT was always designed to be a kill-fest?

Not all added events or adventures were made for cooperation. during the gun powder skelly adventure. hardly anyone allied.

you're right tho rare did say that the events were bringing players pvp encounters down. which was a big complaint at the time on the forum bcuz of the first meg update where no one wanted to help after they already had done it. They took feedback and changed the events to be more repayable so those encounters would happen more often where players would help others complete it. because it was an issue with their very first event. They want us to enjoy their game they don't want to tell us to cooperate or to pvp its the choice.

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@ticklepantzz
No its actually not. Infact you can still get doubloons for running the reapers mark while completing missions. so no rare added the reapers mark for us to do with it what we want. obviously it shows ship possition so they knew it would invite pvp. but to say thats its sole purpose is wrong.

Well unless I'm mistaken, there is only one commendation that requires you to do multiple voyages while flying the mark. It's an achievement because it's a challenge, you are painting a target on your back.

Putting the mark on implies you want to be seen, and found. For better or worse, you acknowledge that any kind of people will seek you out, and agree with the possible outcome.

@bran-the-ent said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv Yes. The potential to have things stolen is at the core of the game. That should never go away - which is why I always oppose the notion of PvE only servers. But, this also isn't a competitive twitch shooter regardless of how many streamers and players wish it would be. It was always intended to be a pirate "experience" - the journey more than the destination. So, it's slower paced with no particular endgame. You can choose to be a thief 24/7 or you can choose not to be. That's the nature of this sandbox.

Its not slower paced now tho... they just buffed the sword to be faster and spam haeven..

Currently, it is pretty balanced in its approach. Players get loot on the seas - they don't get credit for the loot until they turn it in. This gives thieves the opportunity to steal the loot and get the rewards themselves. Now, with alliances, this got screwy a bit, but alliances are unstable beasts and thievery can still occur.

I don't think anyone needed this here. we all know how the game is played.

So, the problem is that there are two camps - PvP & PvE - that would prefer the game be one or the other when it is a carefully balanced mix of both - a pirate ecosystem of sorts. Once players accept this, the game becomes more enjoyable.

I'm not against pve just because i absolutely love the pvp aspect of this game. As a legend in this game i really only play for the pvp aspect these days.....

Frankly, I'm tired of people trying to make the game something it isn't - "for the sake of sales and longevity and out of a desire to see the game succeed" (yeah, like that's why they complain.)

well thats what opt crossplay is just saying.

@ticklepantzz

You are only seeing the parts you want to see to make the game only what you want. That is what I was saying about a game with an identity crisis and players only wanting to steer the game one way.

I do not need someone to hold my hand. I have nothing against the PvP possible in the Sea of Thieves. In fact I enjoy it. I do not think the game needs to have a condensed soup mode to get more of it though.

In a way Rare is changing the story and the game with Arena. I do not believe it changes the vision though, both theirs and ours as players. Not a choice needed, but it is coming. What I am against is all the hate and strong stance to prevent everything the Sea of Thieves has to offer and keep out the players who want to have their fun their way.

The game allows many possibilities. No reason to limit the fun. No one takes away anything from anyone else by allowing everyone to sail their own way. The game is what we all put into it and allow each other to get out of it.

Do not think there is anymore to discuss here or in this thread. Hope your future voyages are good to you and the winds take you to where you want to sail.

@nofears-fun said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@nofears-fun said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv I actually like the nerf on the EoR hip fire. The weapon was never intended to be used that way. I know, it has been used that way forever, but that does not make it right.

Did I say anything about the hip fire of the eye of reach? No

So you don't feel you were aggressive here with this response?

Aggressive sure a little. But necessary. Assumptions start fights. I corrected you from assuming something of me. Sorry if I offended.

@ticklepantzz said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@ticklepantzz
No its actually not. Infact you can still get doubloons for running the reapers mark while completing missions. so no rare added the reapers mark for us to do with it what we want. obviously it shows ship possition so they knew it would invite pvp. but to say thats its sole purpose is wrong.

Oh okay man im sorry the youtube video lied to me. Then you will tell me the cannons balls werent and the arena mode is so we can all hang out and talk about politics you're right my appoligies.

Pretty sure we agree on this issue. lol.
My point wasn't that the reaper flag isn't for pvp.
My point was that its not only for pvp.
Anyone with that flag is asking for pvp. sure. But it could be for the commendations i was pointing out. that is honestly the only reason in why i said that.

@vderickv Let's not confuse a particular action that has been sped up with faster paced gameplay. The complaint I see about the sword is that, now, fights on ships take longer because those with swords can move faster. So, faster action, in this case, leads to slower gameplay.

I don't think anyone needed this here. we all know how the game is played.

I wish this were true. If it were, we'd see fewer of the types of complaints in these forums that indicate otherwise.

@bran-the-ent said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv Let's not confuse a particular action that has been sped up with faster paced gameplay. The complaint I see about the sword is that, now, fights on ships take longer because those with swords can move faster. So, faster action, in this case, leads to slower gameplay.

I don't think anyone needed this here. we all know how the game is played.

I wish this were true. If it were, we'd see fewer of the types of complaints in these forums that indicate otherwise.

i'll just toss this video here as this video is of sword play that should have lasted much longer. This is sped up gameplay around the use of a sword.
https://twitter.com/DerickMcAfee/status/1095112310002044928

@vderickv Yep... that's clearly someone who didn't know how to block and dodge.

@bran-the-ent
thats me in the video and if you see i was obviously blocking bud.

@vderickv Yes. But I didn't say just block, now did I?

@bran-the-ent said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv Yes. But I didn't say just block, now did I?

Doesn't change the fact that the speed was increased for swords and the miss delay being removed. making the gameplay faster. and also ruining the blocking mechanics in the process.

@vderickv No... the blocking mechanics work fine... because the blocking mechanics include dodging. It ended quickly because you didn't put ground between you and your attacker. And, since there were two boarders... you really needed to do that. You also delayed in getting off the wheel when you heard someone boarding. You made a mistake. Learn from it rather than asking for the game change to accommodate your mistakes.

@bran-the-ent said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv No... the blocking mechanics work fine... because the blocking mechanics include dodging. It ended quickly because you didn't put ground between you and your attacker. And, since there were two boarders... you really needed to do that. You also delayed in getting off the wheel when you heard someone boarding. You made a mistake. Learn from it rather than asking the game change to accommodate your mistakes.

Wrong sir. the blocking doesn't "work fine" you just saw me block 1 hit then miss the next 2 while still blocking and then dying while holding blocking. No ground between us is needed as i should be able to block a slash hit if i'm looking at them while blocking. he was just slashing not sword dashing. Is your sound on? lol.. i even say i'm blocking in the video... one boarder you're not very observant....

Just rewatch that video. he missed his pistol shot as he boarded and i missed a slash and was stopped by his slashes and went directly into blocking.

@vderickv I think the blocking is a different problem. There are many times I go to sword dash by guarding first but my guard goes down for no apparent reason. This game has many problems that have been completely ignored by the game Devs only for them to "fix" things that could've waited. Hit registration should've come before fixing double gunning. But they still don't recognize hit registration being a problem.

@boomtownboss said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv I think the blocking is a different problem. There are many times I go to sword dash by guarding first but my guard goes down for no apparent reason. This game has many problems that have been completely ignored by the game Devs only for them to "fix" things that could've waited. Hit registration should've come before fixing double gunning. But they still don't recognize hit registration being a problem.

Well rare needs to focus on problems like these rather then splitting the community and making crossplay optional...

<"https://clips.twitch.tv/embed?clip=WimpyKawaiiNuggetsPartyTime" >

@vderickv I agree. The Dev's priorities are out of wack. I have no problem with them changing double gunning or removing crossplay. But they should be fixing problems before changing gameplay mechanics.

@vderickv Yes. The other guy was your crewmate. I looked to quickly to notice the green. I'm at work... so, no sound.

But slowly scroll through the video. Every time he hit you, you're guard was down. One of the drops occurred because he hit three times (even though the third was blocked) - which resulted in a pushback... in this case unnoticeable because you pinned yourself against the wheel and railing.

The best choice after the first hit when you were backed up against the wheel and railing was to hop back and gain some distance. You didn't do that - you tried to go on the offensive and when that didn't work, you still didn't get out.

@bran-the-ent

So his 3rd hit was blocked. I'm still blocked after that. and so he should be able to just hit through what should be a block? i don't think so... bcuz i never dropped my block... id rather it sit there and block forcing him to do the sword dash. otherwise you kinda remove one of the reasons the sword dash was used.

EDIT: Basically its not that he hit through my block I think its more that his slash was able to come back faster then my block was after he bounced off of my block when i blocked his 3rd slash.
This is more likely what happened. and i'm still not happy about it.

@katttruewalker said in Killing a game, more than ever:

This is the best current definition for the game I know of so far -

'A clear vision'
'Players creating stories together' - freedom and control over adventures, a world that was immediately understood, provide tools and let stories be created around both co-operation and combat, the decision is for the player.

'Fantastical world inspired by pirate games (Monkey Island), movies (Goonies) and stories.'

3:55 there is the original pitch video with all the ideas presented to Xbox, not all the ideas involve combat but the full range of piratical adventures - quests, discoveries, puzzles, getting rich, battling, rpg, epic swordfights, fighting ai threats, music making, all that the theme of piracy suggests.

'Fun and welcoming multiplayer'

'Competition can lead to negative behaviour and toxicity so Rare deliberately decided to head in a different direction, as a first party studio they had the freedom to do this. Always been very passionate about this being a welcoming game for everyone.'

etc.

VIT Talks 2018: Sea of Thieves: creating a new type of multiplayer game

That video the devs made 4 years ago. Thats the game i bought.
They may as well change the name of the game if they want to change the game to be more cooperative leaning then pvp. I didn't buy that.

That dev video from 4 years ago is EXACTLY what i knew i was buying on launch! AND i think they were successful with the overall world after a few updates in it was obv getting better. the pvp/pve/cooperation. Their downfalls being actual content and Quality of life around hitboxes and hit registration being terrible.

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@katttruewalker said in Killing a game, more than ever:

This is the best current definition for the game I know of so far -

'A clear vision'
'Players creating stories together' - freedom and control over adventures, a world that was immediately understood, provide tools and let stories be created around both co-operation and combat, the decision is for the player.

'Fantastical world inspired by pirate games (Monkey Island), movies (Goonies) and stories.'

3:55 there is the original pitch video with all the ideas presented to Xbox, not all the ideas involve combat but the full range of piratical adventures - quests, discoveries, puzzles, getting rich, battling, rpg, epic swordfights, fighting ai threats, music making, all that the theme of piracy suggests.

'Fun and welcoming multiplayer'

'Competition can lead to negative behaviour and toxicity so Rare deliberately decided to head in a different direction, as a first party studio they had the freedom to do this. Always been very passionate about this being a welcoming game for everyone.'

etc.

VIT Talks 2018: Sea of Thieves: creating a new type of multiplayer game

That video the devs made 4 years ago. Thats the game i bought.
They may as well change the name of the game if they want to change the game to be more cooperative leaning then pvp. I didn't buy that.

That dev video from 4 years ago is EXACTLY what i knew i was buying on launch! AND i think they were successful with the overall world after a few updates in it was obv getting better. the pvp/pve/cooperation. Their downfalls being actual content and Quality of life around hitboxes and hit registration being terrible.

Yep....

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

EDIT: Basically its not that he hit through my block I think its more that his slash was able to come back faster then my block was after he bounced off of my block when i blocked his 3rd slash.
This is more likely what happened. and i'm still not happy

That actually makes sense. They adjusted the speed of the sword for attack without adjusting the speed of the sword for blocking. I have had several situations similar to this. You are blocking while taking damage because the attack is faster than the block. I will do more testing but I have had similar situations as to what you show in video while blocking head on still take a hit or two.

@stew360 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

What they did to the gameplay itself " Ready speed after running about 3 secs " , Gun switch taking 4 seconds to fire both guns ... making the sword been more spamable and easier for the users but still stuntlock the target ..

They ruined the gameplay , SOT after going strong on twitch because of high level of play ... where the game was skill base , fast pace and frenetic ... they transform it into a letargic , slugish and disgusting game as it is ...

They used the excuses of 1 faulty combo " Eyes of reach + pistols " exploits , that only required to nerf the Eye of reach hip fire and damage , wich they had bufff months ago to get peoples off the blunderbuss play ... and basically created this .. but then instead of only fixing the " exploits " who was blown out of proportion ... in a year i might have been kill once with this " exploits " in thousans of fights agains thousans of different players ...

Yet instead of truely fixing the problems , they compleatly [Mod Edit - Swearing] the gameplay ... and now the game is dying and they try to hide it by making a " free friend week " hopping to get sale out of it getting more casuals ... and pushing out competitive players ... wich make no sens when they were trying to make an " Arena game mode "...

No ones will ever play this game competitively if they dont revert back all these horrible changes .. but if they do the casuals and the whiners will bash them ... so sadlly the game will sink RIP SOT it was a good run

Man thank you for understanding this. All anyone has to do to see the negative impact this has had is look at the twitch metrics they are down. Most of my friends cant play / stand the new update it's no conincidence at all this is happening. The majority of players hate this nerf to movement and I see no adress from devs as to why they made gameplay so boring and slow.

@rip-chongy said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@vderickv said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@rip-chongy said in Killing a game, more than ever:

Let all the PC players and summit sheep leave if this game is so dead.

Rare this is the mentality you want to avoid. Would just like to point that out.

Why complain on a forum if you still play?

Because I want the game to feel good to play all around not just spammy sword attacks and trash hitboxes and hit registration. I mean I watch creams stream of SoT yesterday and just in that time his client crashed to a server merge and the hit registration was awful to the point he shot 1 skelaton 5 times with a sniper that reacted ea time it got shot and still didnt die. and if it doesnt get fixed even after posting on the forums about it then i tried all I can and I wont be "still playing" for long.

Why stand in fire and tell me it's hot? Either find a solution or move out of the way or wait for summit to tell you what to do next.

Summit isn't my dad. No one tells me what i like about a game or what to use in a game. My opinions are my own. Get out of here with this summit fanboy bs.

@moonflower2018 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

Do not care about double guns .. I've never used it, sword + blunderbuss was totally fine, even against players who were playing with maccro, or against cheaters.
I'm just sick and tired about casuals, their poor way of thinking, and the decisions the devs are making since day one.
Spliting communities should revive their game? really? ..
In which seas are you playing? The servers (majority of the time), are empty.
At the end they take decisions FOR a certain part of their community, and that's a shame, because the other has to leave because we tell that she's not welcomed anymore, or won't be missed blahblah. I thought it was a PIRATE game ... not a PVE game ..
The heart of the game lives in creating it's own experience, not forcing the players into ONE direction, the easy way, the soft way.
You do not understand nothing ... it's about improving your skills if you're not at the lvl, do not talk about CounterStrike or other FPS .. you miss the effin' point.
If you want to keep your treasure, be sure to know how to do it, that's it.
We do not ASK so much things.
Because, the game is not about thieves anymore, you can't deny that.

the game is meant to be a PvE setting with it's players participating in a role as just ONE of the many encounters you come across in the open world.

PvP is not the main focus of this game, despite how fun it is compared to PvE, despite how many players prefer PvP over PvE, and despite however often a popular steamer participates in PvP. saying so just states that PvE is lacking and deserves more focus After The Arena.

speaking of The Arena, this game mode will be everything i assume you would want for the game. so be patient and try it out when it arrives.

@ticklepantzz said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@stew360 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

What they did to the gameplay itself " Ready speed after running about 3 secs " , Gun switch taking 4 seconds to fire both guns ... making the sword been more spamable and easier for the users but still stuntlock the target ..

They ruined the gameplay , SOT after going strong on twitch because of high level of play ... where the game was skill base , fast pace and frenetic ... they transform it into a letargic , slugish and disgusting game as it is ...

They used the excuses of 1 faulty combo " Eyes of reach + pistols " exploits , that only required to nerf the Eye of reach hip fire and damage , wich they had bufff months ago to get peoples off the blunderbuss play ... and basically created this .. but then instead of only fixing the " exploits " who was blown out of proportion ... in a year i might have been kill once with this " exploits " in thousans of fights agains thousans of different players ...

Yet instead of truely fixing the problems , they compleatly Fup the gameplay ... and now the game is dying and they try to hide it by making a " free friend week " hopping to get sale out of it getting more casuals ... and pushing out competitive players ... wich make no sens when they were trying to make an " Arena game mode "...

No ones will ever play this game competitively if they dont revert back all these horrible changes .. but if they do the casuals and the whiners will bash them ... so sadlly the game will sink RIP SOT it was a good run

Man thank you for understanding this. All anyone has to do to see the negative impact this has had is look at the twitch metrics they are down. Most of my friends cant play / stand the new update it's no conincidence at all this is happening. The majority of players hate this nerf to movement and I see no adress from devs as to why they made gameplay so boring and slow.

This isn't a twitch shooter like CoD or Fortnite, or a mobility shooter like Titanfall. While the sword's stunlock should be removed, yes, saying "the majority" of people hate the new update is being very presumptuous.

@blam320 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@ticklepantzz said in Killing a game, more than ever:

@stew360 said in Killing a game, more than ever:

What they did to the gameplay itself " Ready speed after running about 3 secs " , Gun switch taking 4 seconds to fire both guns ... making the sword been more spamable and easier for the users but still stuntlock the target ..

They ruined the gameplay , SOT after going strong on twitch because of high level of play ... where the game was skill base , fast pace and frenetic ... they transform it into a letargic , slugish and disgusting game as it is ...

They used the excuses of 1 faulty combo " Eyes of reach + pistols " exploits , that only required to nerf the Eye of reach hip fire and damage , wich they had bufff months ago to get peoples off the blunderbuss play ... and basically created this .. but then instead of only fixing the " exploits " who was blown out of proportion ... in a year i might have been kill once with this " exploits " in thousans of fights agains thousans of different players ...

Yet instead of truely fixing the problems , they compleatly Fup the gameplay ... and now the game is dying and they try to hide it by making a " free friend week " hopping to get sale out of it getting more casuals ... and pushing out competitive players ... wich make no sens when they were trying to make an " Arena game mode "...

No ones will ever play this game competitively if they dont revert back all these horrible changes .. but if they do the casuals and the whiners will bash them ... so sadlly the game will sink RIP SOT it was a good run

Man thank you for understanding this. All anyone has to do to see the negative impact this has had is look at the twitch metrics they are down. Most of my friends cant play / stand the new update it's no conincidence at all this is happening. The majority of players hate this nerf to movement and I see no adress from devs as to why they made gameplay so boring and slow.

This isn't a twitch shooter like CoD or Fortnite, or a mobility shooter like Titanfall. While the sword's stunlock should be removed, yes, saying "the majority" of people hate the new update is being very presumptuous.

The usual excuse. Its not good enough. No game that I know of has this restriction on movement stop with the terrible excuses no one buys it and only you guys come with with same excuse. Yes the majority hate it have you not seen reddit or checked the youtube videos on this or even the actual massive decline in the community?