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Discussion Jewels
FROM REDDIT
Fishing that generates...
Me: I'd say use a rod to do fishing. You could do it around any believable enough water source and you have to stand still for the duration. Buckets full of water are not believable enough, though we could use them to carry the fish to a cook or a kitchen. From the ocean we could get anything from a fine dinner we need to prepare before consumption to a dirty outfit we need to wash before wearing it. Rewarding players this way keeps the feature fresh as long as there are rewards in the pool and making them need effort beyond fishing before we are able to utilise makes it feel like a predictable challenge. It also rivals the merchants in a healthy unique way.
Cooking?
Me: Technically all food except bananas could require cooking them. Instead of just restoring health, it could become slightly mandatory in a fun way. Before each trip, each crew has a small feast below the deck. As long as it succeeds, characters behave as intended with no added effects. However, in case the cook makes a mistake, it may have a random quirky after-effect on one of the mates. Use this to your advantage as a cook to bend rules or simply spice up the venture to dictate your cup of tea.
Maybe there's a famous cook out there that randomly spawns on certain outposts where, if a player has leveled enough rep with him, he can get unique recipes.
Me: Nice one. Just not in favour of the rep-up tiering system. Simply have them spawn with a cycled recipe for a price or roll a random non-learned recipe if you threaten them instead. Could be further adapted and leaves more room this way, I think.
Potion brewing?
Me: Maybe if partnered with cooking. What if we call it an antidote instead? Brewing these will lift the consequences of the feast digested and produced by the more or less shady suspect of a cook you have on board. Production would cost dubloons and specific materials, plus the consumption would have to happen before hand. This simply excludes the pirate with the antibodies from the feast roulette.
Shanty-collecting?
Me: Aye matey!
Dice minigames at taverns/on ships.
Me: Below the deck. Could be used to change the reward ratio from each trip or win freedom in case confined to a brig. Simple mechanic.
Interior ship decoration could be cool, but I imagine furniture could be abused to hamper movement of enemies. It would have to be very limited.
Me: Hampering sounds great as long as it feels believable and fair. Gaining solid unintentional advantage over others due an exploit isn't fair in any game nor fun because it usually forces the rest of us adapt to a narrow playstyle.
Base building is out of the question as every server is different, but does anyone know if we can customize our pirate base once we become "pirate legends"?
Me: Would be great if we could.
Maybe have unique cosmetic chests that can only be found either in predetermined destinations or randomized locations or gotten by unique scenarios (Kraken's death releases some chests it had eaten.) This I don't like too much though, randomized loot sometimes can suck big time. I'd make it so whatever chest you get, it will always give a unique cosmetic that 1. You don't have yet, and 2. that is seperate from the ingame-cosmetic shop. Or, even better, maybe you get a cosmetic token that can be used to get a recolor of your choosing? I dunno, maybe this is a s**t idea too.
Me: Only if it's not behind an RNG wall and the drop is an actual head sliced from the body, for example. Less RNG grind and more actual venturing grind. That Kraken head must drop from the Kraken to the laps of one of us so we can fight for the trophy headpiece. Make it the puzzle of our lifetime.
I'm a c****y designer, but the point is: I don't want more grind, I just want more things to do/go after. I think its just a difference of what we want in a pirate universe style game.
Me: You're doing fine. :)
ENDGAME REDDIT
It [SoT] does have one [an endgame]. Every game has it. That's where the players gather distinctly in comparison to the rest of the games.
Endgame is where the players gather.
Usually it's a PvP focused area of some sort. EvP areas could theoretically keep us interested at least as long as we are able to entertain each other in PvP areas knocking the dear lights out of one another, but only if the mobs would actually try to outwit the players with proper countermeasures. Keyword is 'surprise'.
Pirate Legend is perhaps designed and intended to be the endgame by the devs, but we will see how it goes. If players gather around it, that's where the endgame is and if they gather inside it, then that's where the treasure is instead. The narrow the means versus creativity of the resistance, the less likely it actually becomes one.
Whole game is an endgame statement isn't exactly correct. It may feel like that at first, but technically the endgame, if my calculations are indeed correct, it just means that it can be fathomed basically anywhere (not constantly everywhere due pacing). Start whacking the fellow pirate next to ya and there you have it. This ain't very interesting for long so I predict naval combat and boarding to be the main endgame areas or rather situations; not just any type of PvP confrontation that is. Most challenging situations draw players there in case they know of them.
MORE REDDIT
I think that grinding gives people the sense that they are not wasting their time while playing a game. Hear me out.
Me: Depends how believable and immersive the puzzle is really.
If you can spend 200 hours playing a fun game, to some people, they start to feel discouraged because a new player can start and be better at the game than them.
Me: Tells me more about the players themselves than the game, I'd say. Sometimes a game is fun when you spend the least amount playing it while some are fun when played a certain period. However, it's not grinding exactly that is questioned here, but venturing narrative rich and distinctly different jolly features, I wager. No one really likes to repeat the exact same things tens if not hundreds of hours unless the content can adapt to our paces and dish us believable countermeasures which we can then try to overcome.
"Oh well, I guess I just suck at the game."
Me: In a game of skill, that's an inevitable crossroad. We either do or we don't match the resistance of the more or less changing opposition. Skill is a test of awareness which means that in a PvP situation well prepared is well performed. In PvE the opposition sadly, most of the time, cannot adapt to us players unless we play against Watson or similar entity. The reason behind success of PvP is because we can surprise and be surprised by others from time to time.
OR..... they can have certain cosmetic items that makes them feel special. At least they have something to show for the large amount of chests they've collected.
Me: I'd say AND because I like to perform in style that fits my... style, haha. This is where pseudo-randomness variable can shine. Instead of simply unlocking things thorough tiers, make shopkeepers cycle their wares in a random fashion simply by fetching treasure chests (and / or some other snatched wares alike) and returning them to the faction associates; client or their rival alike would do fine. Give it to those who make you a better deal and watch out for the envy, and possible revenge of one of the other associates, that builds over time. It would also be great if we could play dice below the deck to change our reward ratios. Who wants to gamble a portion of their treasure (one or all of those sweet items you get after delivery succeeds in case it does) or at least get a change to win your freedom from the brig? I would!
Part of a cloth, some weapon and a handy item of some sort at random could do the trick. Give us an option to pick one of them, to be exact. Let us manually compare the offerings in advance too so that we feel the illusion of haggling or having an edge there. Throw us an optionally pre-ordered ship every month and we have something to await for. You know. The way pre-order works. Each month you can pre-order one ship to be delivered to you the 1st day of next month in case we have enough materials to start with. Less materials makes the assembly take even longer. On top of that, for us to purchase a license to, design an assignment each week by hand and roll a shared narrative into it. Optionally we can just embark ourselves into a personal endeavour instead for free. In other words, give us plenty of options. Four would be okay to start with and two works as the minimum. Our ships need some soap.
It's all psychological in the end really.
Me: Exactly.
Many older players are more susceptible to the feeling they are wasting their time unless there is some way they can show for it.
Me: Perhaps I like to waste my time too sometimes, haha. As long as I can imbue my outfit, tools, the ship and my hideout with cool memories to fondly remember later on, I won't oppose the venture. Unless the venture doesn't keep their end of the bargain that is. In that case some bones will break surely at the next island, unless the island is not habited by the palefolk or some other weird and possibly spooky foe lurks in the dark... or daylight. Whatever rocks the boat... or mountain... you got the point.
ANOTHER REDDIT PICK
Cosmetics are the best because they don't give anyone an actual advantage in the game. It's just a more entertaining way to display a trophy.
Me: ...AND / or perhaps an item that allows us to waste our foes by adapting a bit different strategy in the expense of the disassembly of our current tactics line-up. Similar to the Rule of Two, lol, of course. No solid advantages though. Each item must have at least one if not two counters to keep it fun AND each item needs to be presented physically in the ship. A cabinet full of weapons is not enough especially if the cabinet doesn't show the arsenal inside it. Also the items ought to be removable as well. Throw them overboard for other players, somewhere else, to get a chance at fishing them out of the sea or perhaps find them washed ashore next to a random harbour town. I fished a saddle and a bunch of boots out of the water in Minecraft and it was hilarious.
Like, getting a ship with ghostly sails.
Me: Yeah, that would work in case the effects obey the currents of wind. There's nothing more irritating than a cool cosmetic item that only looks cool while it's still or the wearer is otherwise idle. Many games neglect this aspect when it comes to particles in motion. Then again that's why I don't play many games. Same thing with overlapping objects. It's not cool. Looks believably stupid every time. This is why devs need to focus on detail as well. True devil lurks there.
New songs and instruments.
Me: Someone else also suggested this one too. Each instrument could come with a song of their own. While playing, the band can play it too at the background while the specific performer of the instrument is the lead. I'd say that is cool and I second it. To further elaborate with the idea, let each character in the band learn the song the lead plays so that they can play it too in their own special way whenever they want. Plus, when a song is played with a specific composition, it opens a secret compartment in the ship next to us or reveals a hidden location on the map for us to venture next to. This way sharing is caring and every time we get something it's more than meets the eye.
A skeleton as a playable character.
Me: Love the idea!! ROFL - Never dressed a skeleton before. What kind of perfume do they wear on their bones, I wonder. Perfume... oh wait. That has a nice ring to it.
The ability to summon lightning to strike, or to call a storm. Fun things like that make players feel awesome, and new players to feel inspired.
Me: Lightning in a bottle that zaps the one who opens it like one of those L****y Toons experience occasionally. All black and twisted for awhile until they shake the suddenly accumulated extra ash away. I would appreciate that very much. A rain dance works too when you have to dance with the wolves.
MY OPINION ABOUT AAA ISSUE
I think OP meant that this game [SoT] hits where some of those AAA, professional and sport games fail to aim. Games in these fields fair well for awhile and then lose the customers because they deal with the same meaningless grind over and over again even though they get more and more rewards as content.
The rewards are great. That's what they often nail from the beginning, but there's no real meaning in between and often player is left feeling "I wish I had this gun from day one". They just can't receive it because it is merely labelled as a "reward" without believable background how that is, why they can't and what to actually face in order to get it. Whatever reason there is, it feels like an excuse to just make you play longer which is often the case since players use time spent playing to justify how "good" the game is which companies then use to say "look how good this game is" even though the statistics is biased. I use the word 'stretched' because that is how I sense features in games to behave mostly nowadays.
There's deep self doubt amongst devs these days too that they think they need to stretch their games into multiple volumes because their story feels cheap. Sometimes that is true, but grinding doesn't help these titles. It just makes it more obvious and amongst those that are not become strangely odd as if something is missing in between. It's like ordering a whiskey on the rocks and believing the portion tastes the same after the ice has fully melt into it. Instead the devs should reflect their expectations, keep their game compact and then just let it go. Look at Meatboy for example. It's juicy business. Darkest Dungeon is a jewel to behold and dear to my heart as well.
Lore might be present in games, but it isn't tapped as far as the importance of the reward in relation to player desire demands it to go to immerse them believably enough thorough actions predicted; yet fail to deliver the predictions. That's why the games mostly rely on strong competition features the players get to utilise because that they cannot fail at since it comes from the players themselves. They just create the layout and then tell players to knock each other out which they then do. EA failed in making SWBFII because they tried to make just another FIFA game and forgot to check in all seriousness what audience they approached. This audience wasn't just about knocking each other cold. They wanted to be immersed thorough lore and action, both in which EA ran short at. They didn't have the proper experience behind them to pull it off. Bungie tried to use loot boxes to fill the role of non-campaign content in Destiny 2 while Massive and Ubisoft failed in environment awareness coded in The Division. They all tried to use RNG and grinding to extend the experience and were left in failure because they effectively stretched it instead. Less effort doesn't necessarily mean better results either. I hope they learned their lesson. That it is better to actually experience the actual road to the destination, not thorough pseudo-randomness variables. Such that are obsolete.
In other words, SoT seems to respect our time because it actually doesn't demand it at all. It's like Minecraft or a board game in that sense. We play whenever there is the need for the experience itself. Minecraft has all sorts of things in it, but the best things are left for player imagination and the way people gathered around it was distinctly significant as well at that time. No need to include meaningless grinding without actual fitting content to navigate thorough, dull number games in item values, frustrating (re)spawn algorithms, unnegotiable advantages and the 'Game as Service' just to make it feel longer and sell a bit more. Service beyond launch is an honourable act and supporting them thorough additional ways on top of their initial method is at least worthy in theory, but maintaining interest must come from puzzles, storyarcs, relationships and matchmaking in their fitting levels. Miss the mark and aware enough players will notice. How far the ball lands from the aware customer determines their level of dissatisfaction.
"Challenge itself is the greatest delicacy. Vanity comes as the closest second."
TACTICS & ITEMISATION
Been thinking the same. Too similar item features make the items too generic compared to each other and therefore boring. Visuals make them interesting, but only up to a point. Different means thorough different items for different purposes is the way to go. It's all about the fantasy.
For example...
Cutlass: Instead of damage, have it be used to parry melee attacks. In case a target fails to parry an attack, they evade it. After couple successive evasions, the target is left so fatigued that the next attack received cannot be evaded and therefore will be lethal. Fantasy behind: duelist in a swordfight.
Shovel: Instead of damage, have the shovel stun the target for a short duration when hit to help you flee from the scene. Obviously allows to dig up buried treasure and graves alike, but also hide personal affairs to depths under soil and sand. Fantasy behind: graverobber in the night.
Musket: As a long range rifle of some kind, since it is most useful at long range and deadly, further emphasis on the utilisation from afar makes it live up to its name. Hence the aiming must be slow to perform without losing sight and force the character using one to crouch and camp to make sure they don't. Players who wield muskets must calculate their act in advance unless engaged a close enough target. Does not stop strong or zealous enough foes from advancing at you if you are too close. Fantasy behind: hunting marksman.
Blunderbuss: Lethal to anything close enough due the spread of pellets shot. Slow to reload and have to be filled with multiple pellets in one go before use. Can be reloaded while mobile, but a firm stance standing still have to be maintained when utilised. Fantasy behind: soldier maintaining ground.
Pistol: Nothing to add here. Most versatile and useful. Every pirate's main friend unless coins are included. Fantasy behind: simple adventurer dealing with manageable opposition.
Cannon: Restricted on board of ships mainly. Found amongst some posts at some islands perhaps. Must be tied properly with sturdier enough ropes unless a disaster on deck is what players want. Could work as a tactical manoeuvre if the ship is being boarded. Can also be used to fire pirates from them. Fantasy behind: naval assault between ships or toward harbour towns and a quick transportation device.
Bucket: Can be used to bail water out of ships. Also used as a head piece of less than desirable fashion sense and therefore making the unaware target lose their sight for a moment. Fantasy behind: unfortunately occupied soldier.
Tankard: Not much to say here. Could also be filled with other things than grog though. Better watch out where you leave it. Fantasy behind: poisoned b****r.
Lantern: Well lit is a well followed, in good and worse ways. A must have item for a group to move thorough dark areas and perhaps set an ambush for other fellow pirates alike. While lit, keep it at bay from any oil sources and tar pits unless you want them to catch fire... or maybe not if you want someone to catch on fire or set up a flashy decoy. Fantasy behind: clever lightbringer or a harbinger.
Banana: Keeps yours truly fed and less fatigued. Same thing with pirates and other monkeys. Less fatigue means more energy to keep surviving. That and it also jams firearms when mushed into one. Fantasy behind: hungry mate or a saboteur at work.
Soap: Any decent pirate needs to wash the deck every now and then. Wash it good to keep up proper hygiene. Wash it extremely well and one might find the planks slippery. Fun way to handle hostile boarders, though your mates may beg to differ. Fantasy behind: health insurance specialist or a deeply shallow trickster artist.
Barrels: Used to store pellets, cannon balls, planks and bananas. Mostly anything beneficial to pirates at sea that have a tendency to run out in a hurry. Can also be used as a small floating vehicle in case a ship sinks from under feet. It's not a raft, but at least it floats. Some also contain flammable substances so you better be careful with them. Fantasy behind: storage units, vessels and troublemakers.
Rowboat: Don't want to risk it as a living cannon ball? Don't own a cushion or a parachute? Hop on a row boat, drop 'em down and sail between the ship and the land this way. You may also use it as a small temporary storage unit for the supplies contained in barrels that may be found from any island. Just remember that any extra mass on a boat on top of yours makes it harder to row, making them slower. Fantasy behind: transportation of loot and mates.
Also, as a comical hindrance, pellets could drop from firearms whenever they are aimed downward enough and if they are not tucked into the pipe properly. Musket would need a long tucker while the pistol needs a very short one. At close range there would only be time to shoot the musket once, but the pistol could be used couple more times. Blunderbuss is deadly at the same distance so there would be no need to shoot twice, hopefully. Plus all those planks and cannon balls; it would be great to actually see them carried in our arms, but also dropped to the ground in case we need to grab our gun, for example, then grabbed again, from the ground.
SECRET MUSICAL COMPOSITIONS
Indeed. This idea might work around other items as well up to a point.
Perhaps this could develop even further a bit. What if this wasn't only about the identities of the instruments, but the order they are played as well. Instruments could be used to play any song anytime and their unique sound works well to hype up the motivation to get them, but what if there was a key hidden in the composition of the group? Think about this for a moment. Any instrument could do the lead and bring their sound to the front, but what if each song could have a specific composition that unlocks something special? A secret lair maybe or a quest to undertake. Anyone familiar with the tale of Ali B**a and Forty Thieves? Instead of a simple spoken password we would have specific compositions of instruments that reveal specific secret locations in the world map whenever played or perhaps even next to us in case we are close enough.
HEALTH BEFORE ANYTHING
Weekly basis is actually a logical goal. The longer we play and the more hours we spend will catch us quickly. If not burning out, at least we will soon fathom where our dear precious time has been invested. If a daily basis excites, an hour or two at most is what I suggest. Same thing with a job and other activities. If our invested time only allows us to pay for the activity we otherwise would have invested in, then I advise to actually invest in the activity to begin with and not the money. Unless we can pay for more activities than just the sacrificed one we left to begin with, whatever it is that we face is not worth it. Our time living is too precious to be fooled away.
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Thank you for reading mates!
