A long-range manual harpoon...if it were a manual grappling hook with a rope, where you can throw it like a bomb and get hooked and not very quickly climb somewhere at a speed like climbing a ladder it could be more realistic and balanced, but a super-fast manual auto-harpoon is clearly overpowered thing, this will simply destroy the feeling of movement in the game, you just turn into Spider-Man or Scorpion from Mortal Kombat, but not a man-pirate, the feeling of authenticity with the person will lost. It's the same with the wind horn - abnormally fast movements will simply destroy the feeling of movements in the game. I wouldn't expect super-human speed in this game, I'd like the feeling that you're still a human pirate, but not a super-man creature being. These things will simply bury the landscape of the islands, the geometry of the ship and other objects, either as a means of protection or simply as an obstacle. This will destroy landing on an enemy ship, because if at the moment you had to swim up unnoticed, calculate the speed of the enemy ship, shoot yourself from a cannon at the required angle, climb unnoticed up the stairs on board the ship, now it’s quite simple and very fast press a couple of buttons??? Also, for those defending against enemies on a ship, previously you could listen to the sounds of a pirate’s cannon shots or noises in the water to understand that the enemy was trying to board your ship - this is an excellent mechanic using the geometry of your ship model to resist invaders, but now this loses all meaning, because with this handheld harpoon gun you just press a couple of buttons? Same with grapling any loot - you do not need reach it by your foots and then run with it, now you just take it from far distanse. That items is too overpowered and in my opinion should be "a littlebit" reworked IMHO like auto hand riffle harpoon turn into some handle throved grappling hook with rope for example...and clearly do not know what about wind-horn even. You are now ignoring the terrain and geometry of the space in which interaction between players occurs, this is what I'm afraid of. What are you thinking about this ? How this new items will change balance in the game ? My opinion it is too OP and will ruined gameplay.
New handle grapple gun and wind-caller horn is too Over Powered?
Yes, now i see that many players are discussing for balance on PvP, but everyone like forgets, handle-harpoon will destroy all feelings from the game-world. I hope that the developers will come to their senses and not bury all the work of location designers.
I don't want them to add a hand harpoon to our game...
@senyaforest said in New handle grapple gun and wind-caller horn is too Over Powered?:
I don't want them to add a hand harpoon to our game...
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Depends how it's implemented, how you obtain new items and how plentiful they are.
If they're introduced as an item over the period of an adventure or time-limited event, it'll be new and fun.@senyaforest fingers crossed the grappling harpoon doesn't do damage, if it doesn't I don't see a lot of players wanting to run it because it means giving up a slot for maneuverability so I don't think it will affect the value of the harpoons on the ship
@senyaforest
I doubt it’ll be able to drag players, but treasure and to destinations yes. I cannot wait for the functionality, boarding is going to be so much more fun!as I understand it the grapple hook will take up one of your weapon slots, and also will have some ammunition type. So you have to
- give up a weapon space
- only have a limited amount of shots
this limits the potential use great. Use the hook for boarding enemy ships? well, you will be stuck to 1 weapon only. Use it to traverse terrain on the islands? you have only a limited number of shots, so you have to make them count.
I say: give those items a chance. I think the idea is great, and, considering there are islands that are really hard to traverse, i think its a good addition.
I am more worried about the new weapons, i think they are boring, but thats a different debate...
As for the wind horn: We have 0 information on how it is implemented. Is it some random item we carry always? or is it an item like the mermaid staff, that we have to pick up and need to carry in order to use it. Because if so, this, again, would limit the potential use greatly, which is good imo.
I think we should wait and see what happenesI like the idea of traversing islands faster. As for boarding, we've had the exact same boarding system for 6 years. I'm really excited to get tightropes and grappling hooks added to that system. Countering boarders is way too easy at the moment. If you have a competent crew who knows what they are doing, you will rarely let a boarder on your ship.
I doubt the grapple will be used very much except for in specific situations since the loss of an entire weapon is a pretty big problem in many situations.
The most common use i expect it will have is for sneaky players to get on ships a little easier before trying to snake their way to the armory for something actually functional in a fight. I dont see much use for it beyond very situational moments or just exploring around a bit to areas that are odd to get to.
I don't see it as overpowered but more like changing how we approach gameplay.
Similar to how explosive barrels were in the past where pirates would have them stacked in the crows nest ready to use on enemies, now it's a death sentence having them up there as it will destroy the mast should it be struck by lightning or if spotted by enemy players.
Due to that no one uses them anymore and similarly climbing or boarding will become obsolete in it's current form replaced by the grappling gun.Only time i see these things overpowered is when playing against multiple pirates or playing against "sweats"
But that applies even when the game released, going up against full crews or experienced players was never a good thing for average players but thats a balancing issue which is a different subject altogether.this harpoon significantly reduces the chances of comon level players, especially solo players or PvE, to escape from pursuers with a crew of two or three people especially if they PvP beasts. Just couple charges is enough for attempt to take your ancor and say "goodbye pal" and even idk if that charges will recharge after dying. If it will then ppl can useit agai and again. It will ruined gameplay low skiled PvP or PvE players against ppl with god-reaction gameplay more quickly then we have at this moment. And it's looks like some spiderman. Why just not handle hook?
@krahaborr Idk when I’m wearing a skeleton or phantom curse I feel more than just a human-pirate. Or when I’m defeating hordes of undead, or traveling through wormholes to other dimensions. My number 1 thing that makes me feel more than just a human pirate is the fact that I’m an immortal trapped in a purgatory by a ferryman who’s semi-controlled by the pirate lord.
Realism is never a fun subject for debate, in party or in forums. Not saying I 100% disagree with you, but a lot of the game isn’t realistic.
@parrotlord6426 People put to much emphasis on taking up a weapon slot, that means nothing to me. Give me 5 blunder bombs, a sword or blunderbuss and a grapple gun and I will nearly guarantee victory for my crew. All I need to do is cause chaos, drop anchor and kill anyone I can.
It did look like a VERY useful tool as it is currently in the preview video.
Galleon meets sloop. 2-3 players on Galleon shoot over and harpoon down on the sloop and now there are as many or even more galleon players on the sloop already when the battle begins.
I imagine I would aim the cannon high, pretty easily aim and harpoon myself down close to the anchor on the other ship to immediately drop it. From there I bounce around with sword, blunderbombs (and bone caller?) to prevent crew from catching and raising the anchor. With all these weapons already I don't mind losing 1 weapon slot because what I have should be enough to ensure anchor drops. Meanwhile my own ship gets ready to cannon/board the now anchored ship.
If I die I can change loadout on ferry to board normally next if anchor stays down.
I just imagine naval battles will get to the anchor down part really quickly :P
@multikl
i respectfully disagree.
Boarding IS the meta in HG.
It goes like this.. Shoot over, board, spawn kill & sail outta bounds.
Its a very popular strat.. not mine have you.. but popular none the less.Personally, sailing someone outta bounds is a sad way to have to win, imo.
Sink me w your cannons.. Or atleast a bit of cannon foreplay before boarding attempts start.i do believe that the hand held harpoon gun will be a bit OP (against a solo player).. but, SOT has a way of balancing things out
so im staying optimistic.If a sloop could pull ladders.. that would help the situation.. but i dont think its the answer.
the incoming Traps should help w ladder boarders atleast.. But the harpoon gun.. im not so sure about just yetSo, my imagination runs wild on this one. It goes like this. Its a cool design no doubt, but I am afraid grapple gun will strip naval combat specialists of any advantage and leave the game purely in the hands of low forehead borders with a blunderbuss. The game swings from naval combat to where now where everybody is just a boarder. Consider the current common scenario, if you are a solo slooper and a brig (the boarder specialists favorite boat!) is chasing you with their superior speed in every direction—even towards the wind mind you, your already dead. It is unbearable already in its current state, suppose you get the perfect scenario or even the best scenario you fill a brig with holes, board them and wipe their crew 4 times in a row they keep coming off the ferry like a conveyor belt (slaying out larger crews became largely impossible after they tinkered with the ferry respawn times a year or two ago) and ready to bucket and die again and repeat and never sink. And yes, I understand the concept of attempting to defeat a larger crew being difficult but it shouldn't be impossible given a skill gap mixed with some good luck.
Now imagine the next part: where they get the extra option to fire out of a cannon anywhere near your boat and latch on. There will be no running, no fighting, no naval combat, they fire above your boat, grapple and drop your anchor and your fight is going to be over in two blinks. May change the meta from solo sloopers who all convert to solo brig. They mentioned in the past to adjust boat speeds, but we cannot depend on that happening, the boat speeds have been untouched for about what 2 years now? The last time we saw a change was when a brig gained the ability to outrun sloops who went directly into the wind.
I don't want to incentivize people to all play by themselves (I'm talking to solo players here). But we may seriously need to consider giving solo players a bonus somehow if they are going to be such easy prey no matter their skill level. I talk this way because right now there is soooo many people who want to play this game, but solo play scares them right of their mind.
TL/DR if you bring grapple gun into this game you better take the cannons off a brig to balance the game as it stands. Really need to go ahead and fill the gap here and consider adding a 4th boat, strip the brig of its insane speed and make a 4th boat fast (like the current brig) and for just boarders and runners with zero cannons on it.
Galleons i don't care that boat is so miserable to operate they deserve to win every fight.
i guess this is why they dont announce things and have an nda on insiders? because people panic over every little announcement. i imagine the grapple gun is like at trident we have to find them and they have limited use. i cant imagine it being part of our normal kit.
the windcaller is great for the sails but also seems like the skull of siren song. we will have to find it somewhere via a world event or pvp event or something and it will only be good for giving your sails wind or maybe speed rowboats
half the the utility they showed off with it is pretty useless because it seems like a held item not a tool. so it cant just go in your pocket. so like the example of being on top of a tall island and using it to cushion your fall. well if youre on top of a tall island its to get loot. so what youre going to slowly walk up with an item in your hand so you can soften the landing when you inevitably have to jump down. so slowing down you getting up just so you have to come back and make an extra trip to actually get the loot?
@krahaborr
Take your bailing bucket, go to your water barrel and fill it. Done that? Good. Now pour it over your head and put your hair out. It's on fire.Now that that's taken care of, we can calm down. These are designed to change up the gameplay. Will it have an impact? Absolutely it will. That's the POINT. Is it overpowered? That's trickier.
I guarantee that the balance is going to seem off when it launches. That's because everyone is used to how the game plays now, and haven't entirely grasped the true strengths/weaknesses/uses of the items. Because of that, people are going to say they feel too weak, or too strong based on whether they have found something people haven't figure out to counter, or haven't figured out a great way to use it.
The harpoon gun? Far as I know, It takes up a weapon slot (obviously could be wrong). That means you limit yourself to just one weapon in a boarding scenario. The advantage? You can come in from unexpected angles, making standard ladder guarding dangerous. Plus, if everyone has a harpoon, then they could get near your ship and fire off the gun to steal treasure from you. That might lead to people hiding their treasure again.
The horn? You have no idea how rare it is, or how it's currently obtained. If it's not common, then it's not like everyone you run across is going to have one. Also, the charge is limited. Depending on the length of that charge, it'll definitely change the game especially short-distance changes. However, I don't think it'll last long enough to change long-distance chases. A sloop at a distance that turns into the wind will likely still get away.
All of this is speculation. There's an old saying "No plan survives first contact with the enemy."
I expect that creative players WILL find ways to break the game with these, and tweaks will need to happen. But, adding new toys to the toybox is a GOOD thing, even if there's a ton of disruption at the beginning.
@burnbacon пишет в New handle grapple gun and wind-caller horn is too Over Powered?:
Havnt been released and already being called "OP"?
You should understand thing between guessing and assertion? This post is guessing and food for thought.
@phantaxus пишет в New handle grapple gun and wind-caller horn is too Over Powered?:
I am concerned about the harpoon gun making boarding far too easy.
At the moment the only ways onto your ship are ladders, deck shot or rowboat docking.
The harpoon gun looks like it could completely negate the skill needed to make a deck shot.It what I'm talking about, this item s completely devalues the player's level of play skills.
@keylessword4029 пишет в New handle grapple gun and wind-caller horn is too Over Powered?:
i guess this is why they dont announce things and have an nda on insiders? because people panic over every little announcement. i imagine the grapple gun is like at trident we have to find them and they have limited use. i cant imagine it being part of our normal kit.
the windcaller is great for the sails but also seems like the skull of siren song. we will have to find it somewhere via a world event or pvp event or something and it will only be good for giving your sails wind or maybe speed rowboats
half the the utility they showed off with it is pretty useless because it seems like a held item not a tool. so it cant just go in your pocket. so like the example of being on top of a tall island and using it to cushion your fall. well if youre on top of a tall island its to get loot. so what youre going to slowly walk up with an item in your hand so you can soften the landing when you inevitably have to jump down. so slowing down you getting up just so you have to come back and make an extra trip to actually get the loot?
You can just throw the loot down and then jump down with wind caller ... it can be more combination but The game turns into some kind of Just Case or Fortnite
@krahaborr being pursued shouldn't be a position you take try defending yourself you might have a fun fight
@cptclapz you’re absolutely right, I missed that part in the video but rewatched yesterday and couldn’t find this post to edit my comment lol.
