Emmisary system 2.0

@foambreaker May I know why?

@foambreaker said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058

• Doesn't match the lore at all
• Many of these features are exclusive to Reapers
• On the Reapers side the features come at a cost, always visible on the map and no use of Sovereigns to sell to name only 2
• Adding more PvP features to the big 3 trading companies would make them more of a target than they are, which is not popular at all

Plus a dozen or so more that others will post.

1: The reapers being a thorn in the side of the trading companies and compelling them to fight back most definitely lines up with the lore. And even if it did not, lore does not come before balance in a game.

2: Many of these features are NOT exclusive to reapers. In fact, NONE of them are. If you bothered to read my post you would see that both sides benefit from the change and both sides can utilize all aspects of it.

3: The reaper side does indeed come with drawbacks. But that is completely irrelevant to the entire point of this post, which is to make engaging with the reapers more lucrative for the other companies. Right now you gain nothing from defending yourself from being attacked by a reaper as a non reaper.

4: ALL of the PVP features I listed are 100% optional for the trading companies. You would not have to fight with reapers and you definitely do not need to mark yourself on the map if you choose not to. So for the people that don't wish to pvp. They can just ignore those features. Meanwhile they are there for those who do. You also seem to have completely ignored the fact that you now have a benefit to fighting reapers as a emmisary. (Cosmetics as well as rep and increased bonus to loot sell value.)

5: I look forward to seeing those dozen or so other counterpoints others will post so we can discuss them as well.

Too much focus on pvp which if you havnt noticed. Many players don’t like.

It’s a given GH factions will try to sink other GH faction flag holders because that is what they have. (Same with the others) but they dont have too. The 3 factions care about profits

Reapers, they are designed to sink all factions to benefit from sinking anyone. Including themselves.

Nobody should be forced to be fearful all the time.
You’re wanting to turn this into a full war between all factions who don’t care about the war itself. Just the profits.

Lore wise. Ramsey won’t convince most these factions to join a war they won’t earn anything from. I believe the GH themselves are next in line by corruption next to reapers.

@burnbacon said in Emmisary system 2.0:

Too much focus on pvp which if you havnt noticed. Many players don’t like.

It’s a given GH factions will try to sink other GH faction flag holders because that is what they have. (Same with the others) but they dont have too. The 3 factions care about profits

Reapers, they are designed to sink all factions to benefit from sinking anyone. Including themselves.

Nobody should be forced to be fearful all the time.
You’re wanting to turn this into a full war between all factions who don’t care about the war itself. Just the profits.

Lore wise. Ramsey won’t convince most these factions to join a war they won’t earn anything from. I believe the GH themselves are next in line by corruption next to reapers.

I can understand many people not liking the pvp in this game. Some people just want to grind in peace. But that doesn't change the fact that when you are inevitably attacked by a reaper or anybody for that matter, if you yourself are not also a reaper then you gain nothing from that interaction unless the reaper also had loot which they rarely do in my experience.

Sea of thieves is an open world pvpve game. So players of the same faction turning on each other is inevitable, I wont argue with that. But if gold hoarders are attacking each other then both of them will likely have loot on board so the Victor will gain some extra stuff to sell. And now that I think about it the emmisary system I proposed could be expanded to be for all emmisary related conflict not just between reapers and non reapers, but as you stated many people won't like that.

Reapers are indeed designed to be the blood thirsty pvp faction who sink any and all in thier path, but that still doesn't change the fact that other emmisarries do not benefit from fighting them at all. Unless you count taking the loot from the reaper but as I stated, in most of my experiences the reapers who attack me are either fresh reapers with nothing on board or server hoppers who again have nothing on board. So the net gain from that battle for the non reaper is 0. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain from that fight if you aren't also a reaper, which just shouldn't be the case in my opinion.

Nobody is forced to be fearful in sea of thieves. Anything can happen at any time in this game. You can be fought at any point for any reason. Emmisary flag or no. So the way I see it, if I'm going to be fighting somebody, I may as well be compensated for my effort in defending myself from them.

If the factions only care about the profits then it is in thier best interest to try and eliminate the primary threat to those profits. (Reapers.) Having thier emmisaries sunk and thier loot stolen to be sold to the servant undoubtedly puts a dent in the companies pockets that I'm sure they would rather not have.

The emmisaries have a lot to gain from the war. As I said they would be helping to eliminate a common enemy. It may cost them more in the long run financing and aiding the conflict. But they are suffering losses anyway from thier emmisaries being raided and sunk. The pirate lord and by extension athenas fortune are the sworn enemies to the reapers. (Hence why they are the opposing faction in hourglass.) It makes sense he would want to enlist aid from as many people as he can to help win the battle.

I think for a system like emissaries, simpler is better. We dont need a whole war, when sinking the person who can see you constantly on the map already benefits you since they cant hunt you down as easily any longer.

The entire emissary system was made as a very simple risk reward system, you risk letting others know what you are doing/have, or letting reapers see you anywhere, but you gain a hefty reward for that risk. It doesnt need to be made more complex.

@foambreaker said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 "...5: I look forward to seeing those dozen or so other counterpoints others will post so we can discuss them as well...."

You won't, and this is why I didn't give you reasons in the first place, it is my opinion, I don't like the idea and I have no intention of endlessly debating in the "he who posts last wins" game.

Fair enough, I'm not trying to get into a "he who posts last wins" game. Was just trying to have a discussion on why you and others like or dislike the idea and give my reasons why I either agree or disagree with the points made.

@goldsmen the non reaper side doesn't gain from fighting the reaper. Keeping them from attacking you again just amounts to a waste of your time. It's functionally the same as them having not bothered you at all. You still get the same amount of money and rep for selling despite having your time wasted fending them off.

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen the non reaper side doesn't gain from fighting the reaper. Keeping them from attacking you again just amounts to a waste of your time. It's functionally the same as them having not bothered you at all. You still get the same amount of money and rep for selling despite having your time wasted fending them off.

They dont need to gain anything more than getting rid of the reaper since reapers being able to see them is 50% of the risk that comes with that 2.5x bonus. If the risk of reapers didnt exist, the emissary systems absolutely massive bonus would not be balanced.

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

They dont need to gain anything more than getting rid of the reaper since reapers being able to see them is 50% of the risk that comes with that 2.5x bonus. If the risk of reapers didnt exist, the emissary systems absolutely massive bonus would not be balanced.

I would have to respectfully disagree. As it stands fending off a reaper is a net gain of nothing for the non reaper. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain from fending them off. Keeping your loot doesn't count in my opinion because thats exactly what you would have anyway if the reaper never showed up.
I can understand where you are coming from but I personally would want an actual financial benefit from the interaction.

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

They dont need to gain anything more than getting rid of the reaper since reapers being able to see them is 50% of the risk that comes with that 2.5x bonus. If the risk of reapers didnt exist, the emissary systems absolutely massive bonus would not be balanced.

I would have to respectfully disagree. As it stands fending off a reaper is a net gain of nothing for the non reaper. You have everything to lose and nothing to gain from fending them off. Keeping your loot doesn't count in my opinion because thats exactly what you would have anyway if the reaper never showed up.
I can understand where you are coming from but I personally would want an actual financial benefit from the interaction.

The gain is the emissary system. You arnt supposed to necessarily have a gain beyond protecting your loot since you gain 2.5x more gold and rep. If reapers wernt in the game like that, the emissary system would have little to no risk to give you such a huge boost.

So you arnt gaining nothing, you are gaining over double gold and rep, and the reapers are supposed to be there to counter that. Its simple and it should stay simple.

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

The gain is the emissary system. You arnt supposed to necessarily have a gain beyond protecting your loot since you gain 2.5x more gold and rep. If reapers wernt in the game like that, the emissary system would have little to no risk to give you such a huge boost.

So you arnt gaining nothing, you are gaining over double gold and rep, and the reapers are supposed to be there to counter that. Its simple and it should stay simple.

Except that the reapers aren't always there to counter it. There are times where they attack you and times where they do not. And in both situations you make the same amount of gold when you sell assuming you won the fight. So that begs the question of why even bother fighting the reaper in the 1st place? You are better off just avoiding them. Which is exactly why a lot of people just run away and evade them because it is NOT worth your time to fight them.

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

The gain is the emissary system. You arnt supposed to necessarily have a gain beyond protecting your loot since you gain 2.5x more gold and rep. If reapers wernt in the game like that, the emissary system would have little to no risk to give you such a huge boost.

So you arnt gaining nothing, you are gaining over double gold and rep, and the reapers are supposed to be there to counter that. Its simple and it should stay simple.

Except that the reapers aren't always there to counter it. There are times where they attack you and times where they do not. And in both situations you make the same amount of gold when you sell assuming you won the fight. So that begs the question of why even bother fighting the reaper in the 1st place? You are better off just avoiding them. Which is exactly why a lot of people just run away and evade them because it is NOT worth your time to fight them.

Which would be why people would raise the beacon you propose when a Reaper is far away or when a reaper isn't on a server at all. The beacon would be doused as soon as a Reaper comes your way.

Only thing I like a bit in your proposal is the selling of flags (not just Reaper flags) of ships you sank to other emissaries. Though being able to sell them to the representative on outposts is already a big win as a non-reaper no longer has to sail to the hideout.

Have they changed anything?
Last I checked non reaper emissaries get rep for killing reapers. I know the flags aren't directly rewarded....but what you've requested is already a thing?

@lem0n-curry said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@goldsmen said in Emmisary system 2.0:

@lord-uriel5058 said in Emmisary system 2.0:

Which would be why people would raise the beacon you propose when a Reaper is far away or when a reaper isn't on a server at all. The beacon would be doused as soon as a Reaper comes your way.

Only think I like a bit in your proposal is the selling of flags (not just Reaper flags) of ships you sank to other emissaries. Though being able to sell them to the representative on outposts is already a big win as a non-reaper no longer has to sail to the hideout.

Unfortunately, no solution is perfect and what you say is true. People will stil be evading and running from reapers no matter what you do. People who dont want to pvp will always find a way to avoid it. But the change I propose would be a net positive for people who actually like to fight as other emmisaries. One way they could change the beacon to get around that is to make it so that in order to get the bonus for the beacon you have to defeat at least 1 reaper vessel while it is active. That way you at least have to fight somebody. But people won't like that because then they could have a situation where nobody wants to attack them so they never get it. And there is no guarantee anybody will raise reaper in the server so they can't go attack them either. Regardless I still wish the emmisarry system gave you something for fighting the reapers. Right now there is no reason to besides bragging rights.

@hiradc said in Emmisary system 2.0:

Have they changed anything?
Last I checked non reaper emissaries get rep for killing reapers. I know the flags aren't directly rewarded....but what you've requested is already a thing?

If you do gain rep I never noticed it because I have been max level for everything for a while. But as far as your actual gold, no. Your emmisary bonus is still 2.5x regardless of if you fought anybody or not. Which makes it not worth your time to fight because the reward is the same. Which is exactly why I would like the emmisary system to at least reward a pvp encounter.

@lord-uriel5058
If there was to be anything added to the normal factions for sinking a reaper, i would be okay with getting a level for your emissary flag if you're not grade 5 yet (just like the skelly ships give you rep for sinking them), other then that maybe the ability to sell a reaper flag, but besides that i wouldnt want to see anything more added.

@haltzo5045 fair enough. I honestly have no idea how else they could make pvp interactions In emmisarries more lucrative without overhauling the entire system. Which would bring about its own set of issues. So I guess I'll just have to put up with this one until something changes.