your stance about casual players?

@bugaboo-bill

Casual players are not by definition lacking skill, nor does anyone pouring hours into the game makes them skilled. This notion of a casual player cannot be a talented player is insulting to those that might not be able to invest.

Gamers should aim to improve and if they are unwilling to do so, then they need to accept that they will hit a cap and that in a game where stealing and fighting are part of the game will cause them to lose more often. If you are unwilling to adapt your ways, while noticing it is causing you to lose... is it really up to the developers to adapt the game for you?

Why are casuals the only ones out to have fun? What is your notion that people with skill, liking to battle others, liking to get better and win more battles are not out to have fun?

I do believe that if the developers nerf everything down that everything is to easy that it removes the fun for a lot of people out of the game. If you remove the ability to distinguish yourself by your actions from others, how are you supposed to be the pirate you want to be? Additionally who says that casuals do not enjoy battles?

This is a shared world, an open world and surviving/thriving within an open world setting requires you to learn to play the game. Whether you are a casual or a hardcore try-hard... you still need to learn to play the game, use the tools available and achieve your goals and accept that at times you will lose. It doesn't matter how much of a power house you think you are, how good you think you are... there is going to be someone bigger and better than you out there that will defeat you.

You complain that people scuttle the moment someone approaches, isn't that a cowardly way to play the game? Shouldn't you want to tell them to at least try and engage with other people in an interactive world? Since when have games become an environment in which people should not learn to play the game, where the developers should make everything easy enough that everyone wins all the time - not sure how you will achieve this in a multiplayer game where your opponents are players? Since when has losing in a game ever become unacceptable? Why would someone that is playing worse than someone that is playing good would win the battle and to be honest even if you make it easy enough for everyone to do... the better players will still dominate the lesser players. When it is skill based, not grind based (item/level)... everyone has equal chances so yeah the better player will win most of the time, yet their time spent will not influence their ability in battle other than their execution and decision making: this makes this game casual friendly.

In a game where good and bad players meet, the good players will win more often. Yet what many tend to forget that really good players... aren't really all that common. Some battles you will lose some you will win. If you don't even try... and then complain that it is a PvP hardcore fest? How are you going to improve? How do you know that you had no chance?

Regarding trash talking, welcome to the online multiplayer world... if you can find me a game in which it doesn't happen that is aimed at teens+ I would love to see it... even minecraft has people trash talking - this is not a Sea of Thieves issue, just an internet one (also this isn't limited to attacking crews, I have heard the most horrendous things from people I attacked - you know the casual you think are so squeaky clean - being a sore winner or loser is horrible but a reality)

@bugaboo-bill said in your stance about casual players?:

Do you think casuals destroy games because devs cater too much to them and make all too easy?
Do you think their lack of skill and them not willing to improve, but just want to have fun destroys games?

Also games including PvP like SoT.
We dont have any Matchmaking here. We have all kinds of players from teens to oldsql players, from casual players to pro gamers.
What do you think this game is for?
All?
But how can this be fun for all if you compare it with a scenario like you shoot hoops some balls on a playground, then some NBA Pro's join and "teach you a lesson", own you trashtalk and make you look ridiculous while they laugh on you little noob.

Do you think casuals need to go to have it a serious and competetive already?

Or do you think it is a casual friendly game for friends and families and people who want it to be e-sports and a serious competition game and who want to do headshots and DG are the ones who spoil the game for the others?

@Rare-employees

If you cater to streamers and shooter players, why did you made a pirate game about shipbattles and cutlass fights, when the audience wants to own others and recognize this as a shooter game what contains 90% out of pvp boarding and DG'ing?

Why dont you make us have a comical fun pirate game???

Quick streamer money?
Or dedicated developers for their community???

Nothing i want to say against PvP.
With the right people and the right mechanics PvP is great!

But SoT was turned into something regarding PvP that is nor casual friendly, neither for friends and families, not fun, because of the way people abuse glitches and make PvP the one and only thing while trashtalking and insulting others is their normal way to communicate.
You know to call someone a noob or a carebear, a PvE Lord is already derogative?!
And you support that?
Or do you close your eyes because of the money?

I recently try to help others, gift stuff, 90% of Sloops scuttle immediatly if there is anyone aproaching.

Where is the "social experience" we wanted and talked of in the beginning, where is the playfull way people aproach it and have fun if a lot of your players are gamers who want to own others, dont care for their fellow players, exploit, call this tech and normal and spew hate into your headset?

yeah I wish not many were hostile and didn't make us feel bad but the devs have gotten money greedy like a good irl pirate but it shouldn't happen

@cotu42 @Bugaboo-Bill well if a person does not want to pvp they have the option to scuttle. That is there chosen way to play. Who are we to tell them that it is wrong. In actuality if you don't want any part of pvping scuttling the moment another ship comes close makes alot of sense. If your the attacker/approacher and see a particular ship always scuttles the moment you move towards him you would stop even bothering approaching that ship as it would be a waste of time. Sure, you might get a few chests or skulls... but often times its the thrill of the sink/battle is what people are after. If you know your not going to get that with a particular ship why bother approaching. Kind of a psychological learned behavior type of thing. Sure there may be crews that will approach regardless if they think its funny, don't realize its the same ship, have business on the same island, etc. But I'd suspect it may be fairly effective in deterring pvp from a particular ship/crew.

To the OPs post regarding casuals and pros? The seas are full of all kinds of players with varying skill, goals, and mindsets. That is one of the very interesting things about the game that I hope never changes. There will obviously be ebbs and flows as the game continues to grow where both sides pros and casuals at different times will complain its getting to easy or to hard. To that I say good. Not everyone will always get everything they want or think they want. Its up to the devs to decide the direction and I'm sure they take the complaints, praises, and other feedback into account.

@ronin20 where did I state that it's wrong? I just stated it is cowardly... you literally don't put up a fight and surrender at the first sign of battle. Yet if you start complaining that they were there and they wanted to PvP and you should be protected by them by the game developers changing the world for you... then I would tell you to just get better and learn to fight or accept the loss. If you want to surrender at the first sign of battle, I am not going to stop you... it is your choice, though I wouldn't say it is a brave one and you will lose more loot, time that way.

I get the denial of a fight - rewarding to be shouted at that I am the worst player ever while they cannot even get in range to hit me. I personally choose for the harder to execute option: out sail them, circle around them, deny them the ability to board while dangling it in front of them - till they give up, after that they tend to leave me alone. Sail by outposts selling it one item at a time while they cannon over while I clap after a sell while they slaughter me if they are salty to completely deny their battle or I fight them if they are good sports. Not stating people need to be PvP gods, playing well can also be achieved without engaging in the battle: fleeing, sailing away are also skills - open world... there is more to the game than fight fight fight!

But if you want to scuttle and take the loss, you do you man...

Im fine with casual players. I mean not everyone has hours and hours on end to dedicate to gaming and there is noting wrong with that. Some casual gamers are just as skilled as non casual gamers and others may not be but that is ok, games are supposed to be fun. Unless competing for big amounts of real money or making a living off of it who cares about how skilled someone is playing the part of a virtual pirate? I sure dont. It is kinda of annoying when casual players want games to be dumbed down for them though or made easier. I mean while its understandable if they do not have the time to play it is not the game developers fault they do not have the time to play so while they can cater their game reasonably for the casual player they do not have to 100 percent cater to them.

@CotU42 Not sure why you call someone who scuttles a coward(which yes you are saying they are a coward since what they are doing is cowardly). People scuttle for all types of reasons and it does not make them a coward. Its a video game, they can play how they want. Many actions in life can make one a coward and choosing to scuttle your sloop in Sea of Thieves is not one of them.

This reminds me of a stream I watched. A crew of four going after one and calling the person a coward and a "P" for running. Yeah lets see 4v1 who are the real "P's" in that situation?

@combatxkitty

@CotU42 Not sure why you call someone who scuttles a coward(which yes you are saying they are a coward since what they are doing is cowardly). People scuttle for all types of reasons and it does not make them a coward. Its a video game, they can play how they want. Many actions in life can make one a coward and choosing to scuttle your sloop in Sea of Thieves is not one of them.

While I wouldn't use the word cowardly like @CotU42 I still agree with the sentiment. I just find it pathetic when people don't even try and quit at the first sign of adversity. So many people would be surprised that they would come out on top. I mean apply this mindset to any other game. Would you forfeit when someone chains multiple Draw Two's in Uno? How about when someone double jumps your pieces in checkers? Do you just throw in the towel and not even try? I just find it strange when people play a game and run into a part that they apparently detest so much that they just quit. It makes me question, why they even play the game to begin with? Its just a weird behavior that you would struggle to find in other games, with only the people who do that will be sore losers.

To expand on some minor parts, I am not saying there isn't reasons to scuttle, but some people will just quit the moment you kill them. I am not talking about spawn-camping, I am just talking about dying once and quitting. Its just pathetic.

@combatxkitty I am talking about scuttling at the first sign of combat, those that don't try to disengage or engage in battle without consideration. Because fleeing is a totally viable strategy, yet in a game where you should accept combat as part of the game... why avoid it completely it is part of the game by giving up, not even trying to flee or win a battle?

Scuttling is a good mechanic, it allows people to give up, tap out and admit defeat and is needed in a sportsmanship battle. Just like with a boxing match, you can throw in the towel. Yet if you admit defeat at the start of round one before the first punch flies, you are not even willing to try and in my opinion that is a cowards approach. If you tried, got defeated and use it, that is what it is for.

@cotu42 said in your stance about casual players?:

@combatxkitty I am talking about scuttling at the first sign of combat, those that don't try to disengage or engage in battle without consideration. Because fleeing is a totally viable strategy, yet in a game where you should accept combat as part of the game... why avoid it completely it is part of the game by giving up, not even trying to flee or win a battle?

Scuttling is a good mechanic, it allows people to give up, tap out and admit defeat and is needed in a sportsmanship battle. Just like with a boxing match, you can throw in the towel. Yet if you admit defeat at the start of round one before the first punch flies, you are not even willing to try and in my opinion that is a cowards approach. If you tried, got defeated and use it, that is what it is for.

I disagree. Some people may just not take the game as serious as you and would rather just scuttle and get on with whatever their plans were.

@nabberwar said in your stance about casual players?:

@combatxkitty

@CotU42 Not sure why you call someone who scuttles a coward(which yes you are saying they are a coward since what they are doing is cowardly). People scuttle for all types of reasons and it does not make them a coward. Its a video game, they can play how they want. Many actions in life can make one a coward and choosing to scuttle your sloop in Sea of Thieves is not one of them.

While I wouldn't use the word cowardly like @CotU42 I still agree with the sentiment. I just find it pathetic when people don't even try and quit at the first sign of adversity. So many people would be surprised that they would come out on top. I mean apply this mindset to any other game. Would you forfeit when someone chains multiple Draw Two's in Uno? How about when someone double jumps your pieces in checkers? Do you just throw in the towel and not even try? I just find it strange when people play a game and run into a part that they apparently detest so much that they just quit. It makes me question, why they even play the game to begin with? Its just a weird behavior that you would struggle to find in other games, with only the people who do that will be sore losers.

To expand on some minor parts, I am not saying there isn't reasons to scuttle, but some people will just quit the moment you kill them. I am not talking about spawn-camping, I am just talking about dying once and quitting. Its just pathetic.

I dont know if comparing this to uno or checkers works for me, kind of not the same in my view. I agree with you about the expecting combat thing. That is why I find it some what annoying when people come here to the forums and whine about there being PvP. I mean hello its a PvPVe game what do they expect? With that said if people accept that there is PvP, does not whine about it to Rare and anyone else about it and simply decides to scuttle quietly then I think that is just fine. They lose their supplies, any loot on their ship I mean really its their loss. I think some people may just not really care. Maybe they do not care so much about loot or supplies and they would rather just scuttle and get one with what they wanted to do. Seems fine to me. I think it is fine for them to play the game. Plus no one knows the scuttling history of someone, maybe they do not do it all the time but are just caught on an off day.

I rarely scuttle but did other day because some guy was calling me and my friend a ho. Im not wasting my time on that.

Oh let me add an example because I love my examples any one who knows me on this forum knows how much I love real life examples and this example is for both of you. Myself and my crew mate are doing commendation hunting every other night now. Honestly I love toying with people but I dont know if someone gets aggressive and wants to fight us maybe we will just scuttle. I mean whats the point? We arent going to be stocked to the gills with fighting supplies because we will not be getting loot and therefore do not care. Probably time wise makes more sense to just scuttle than engage in activity with another ship. Some of these accommodations take forever. Im still looking for the hidden camp at Mermaids f f s .

@combatxkitty
Its more of just the spirit of things, when I play a game, I expect certain behaviors from that game. If I am playing Rust, I expect people to attack my base or gank me while I am farming nodes. With a game comes expectations. To just give up on what would be considered normal play just feels weird. When they are taking a flamethrower to my wooden door, I don't just open my base and let them have my stuff. A little back and forth is expected If I attack someone one should expect something in turn besides just giving up. This goes for even when I am the defender not the attacker.

At the end of the day this is just a game. To take a game that serious where you just give up when confronted with what is considered common playing is just lame. Its like just relax and join in the fun and stop taking things seriously.

This was always the extremely difficult balancing act that SoT's unique game design was going to create. Whether it would suffer from it, or thrive from it, I've always wondered. Years of playing it, and loving it, I can't say I don't still wonder, hehe.

If you look at what the developers were saying about the game, and how they approached it, themselves, you'd see a game that was not designed to be a kill-on-sight, serious competition game. However, as much as I LOVED them and their outlook on the game, I knew full well what a player-base does with a game that has open PvP. Maybe I misread the Devs, because I know they're not oblivious to the nature of people/players - but it really seemed like they didn't expect such a large percentage of players to be so merciless. Thieves and pirates are not merely mass murderers without mercy. They are seekers of freedom and a band of brothers and sisters that take to the seas to avoid the authorities and the rigid rules of 'normal' society. So, the whole, "It's sea of 'THIEVES'" thing only holds up for the lack of trustworthiness - not the, "Hey I don't care if you're a brand new player, out-numbered by 4-1, and have no treasure! We're going to murder you and sink your ship without saying anything - other than to call you a newb after we beat you!". Yet, I'd dare say we have more daily/regular players that hold to the latter mindset, rather than the former.
And again... who am I to say they're wrong or right? I suppose they're neither - if we take the openness of the game into full consideration.

Still, my overall point is this:

I think the designers fully intended SoT to be a fun, silly, family game; not a serious, competitive shooter.
Of course, it's such an open game, that people can absolutely play the game that way, but I did expect that the developers would have a constant battle on their hands to tweak the game and influence its player-base to maintain a balance between the casual/friendly and hardcore/aggressive playstyles.

I could be wrong. And/or the overall view may have shifted. Either way, both extremes, and all the variables between, exist within this game.

I know my crew - we engage in battle, often seeking it out, but we also judge the players we encounter as to whether we need to destroy them in that scenario. We have our own code that is pretty simple, but could seem complicated to some. We don't feel any need to flex on smaller crews, but we're also open to engaging them, depending on the situation and their behavior.
We know most crews don't give others this much consideration - but we've made a fair few happy (no doubt crushed many others - but they all asked for it, lol). We don't need to ruin a PERSON's play session if it's really of no benefit or fun for all involved.

I understand, anyone and everyone that logs into this game has, technically, opted into any and all PvP that may occur... but I'm happier to use my own head, and my own heart, to determine what sort of experience I want people to have when they encounter me.
Sure, I've stolen far more treasure than I have assisted in others obtaining - but those times I have assisted others, I hold as dear to my heart and memories as any other moments within the game.

But..... that's just me (and my mates, fortunately).

I will also say this: People that use "casuals" as a supposedly derogative word are laughable. And same goes for people that use "pvpers" or whatever as an insult. Not all PvP is "griefing" and casual players are wonderful. Anyone that has THAT balance wrong has underlying issues - at the very least with the game, if not otherwise.

Just my 2 doubloons (times 2.5 for Grade V Forum Emissary). ;oP

EDIT: Oh, I want to add - I think there are far more than just casual and hardcore players - and neither one, nor the other, are fully responsible for the calls to make things easier or more difficult. Players from either group might be 'guilty' of either positions.
We have family-friendly, casual players that want there to be more sharks in the waters, want skelly ships, megs, and krakens to be more difficult... and we have hardcore pvpers that want those things easier and less frequent... we have pvpers that want their preferences to be easier and more powerful... and casual players that want certain weapons to be better balanced.
One stance is not all inclusive with either group.
IMHO

@nabberwar said in your stance about casual players?:

@combatxkitty
Its more of just the spirit of things, when I play a game, I expect certain behaviors from that game. If I am playing Rust, I expect people to attack my base or gank me while I am farming nodes. With a game comes expectations. To just give up on what would be considered normal play just feels weird. When they are taking a flamethrower to my wooden door, I don't just open my base and let them have my stuff. A little back and forth is expected If I attack someone one should expect something in turn besides just giving up. This goes for even when I am the defender not the attacker.

At the end of the day this is just a game. To take a game that serious where you just give up when confronted with what is considered common playing is just lame. Its like just relax and join in the fun and stop taking things seriously.

Well so is the world of online gaming with so many different personalities one can not really come to expect anything from anyone as everyones definitions of fun are different.

What you see as lame someone else may seem as saving time. Trust me I play other games and I am not so nice in them. When I run over someone with my beautiful tank I would love for them to re spawn with vengeance but a lot of times they dont. I run them over again and they dont care and with a little bit of disappointment of the fight that never was I drive on looking for someone new to run over.

Guess on this topic of ship scuttling we will have to agree to disagree.

@nabberwar said in your stance about casual players?:

@combatxkitty
Its more of just the spirit of things, when I play a game, I expect certain behaviors from that game. If I am playing Rust, I expect people to attack my base or gank me while I am farming nodes. With a game comes expectations. To just give up on what would be considered normal play just feels weird. When they are taking a flamethrower to my wooden door, I don't just open my base and let them have my stuff. A little back and forth is expected If I attack someone one should expect something in turn besides just giving up. This goes for even when I am the defender not the attacker.

At the end of the day this is just a game. To take a game that serious where you just give up when confronted with what is considered common playing is just lame. Its like just relax and join in the fun and stop taking things seriously.

I understand what you're saying here, and, honestly, I share pretty much the same mindset when I am in those situations... BUT... everyone is different. There are absolutely some people that certain things (such as PvP engagements) cause a negative anxiousness (or just a negative experience, overall) that isn't necessarily going to be overcome by partaking in more PvP.
That may not be how you, or I, react to such things, but it IS the reality for some. And we can say that they shouldn't play this game... but they have chosen to. And they have found a way that works for them. I have no problem with that.
As you have also said - it's just a game. It's no big deal if someone doesn't want to engage in PvP.

@rishanji said in your stance about casual players?:

@electricknights Well said! Someone need to save that post for all to see!

I'm glad if just one person feels that way. Thank you so much! :)

P.S. your cheque is in the mail

Sea of Thieves is NOT a competitive game from a long slide. At least not the base experience. Arena is a different story but that's not the main chunk of the game and it's a very "iffy" thing... Would require a lot of explanation on what is actual real competitive play since usually a "ranked mode" is still just another casual mode.

However, as a competitive player myself in games which are made for high competitive play... Kinda? When balancing a game, you have to take into account of casual players since the casual audience makes up around 95% to 98% of the player base and are also your actual income to keep the game running. So yes, you do have to cater to the casual playerbase to some degree but not completely. It's just a very difficult job to do because you want as many elements of the game to be balanced for true competitive play to keep the competitive shows open and something for the casual fanbase to inspire to... However, you need to make sure nothing is OP on the casual side which would frustrate and anger a lot of casual players because by doing so, you will lose them and their potential income to keep the game running.

@bugaboo-bill I don't get your point?

To answer your question:
Would you say this game is for dedicated gamers only who want and need to adapt to the skill of the better skilled gamers???

No not at all:

• Session based - no matter how much time you spent, you will not gain any ingame advantage just practice.
• Ability to run, flee and hide from others... you can avoid conflict with others if you so please.
• Limited skill requirements to actually get good: No headshots, no complex button patterns, no directional combat, etc.

This is a very casual friendly PvEvP game, you want a actual hardcore one: Rust! Time, dedication, high end gun play... or a newer one on the block that doesn't do offline raiding: last oasis.

It seems like your stance is:
"And do we need to cater to the better players or should we care for the less skilled players to have all fun together???"

Yet your question is regarding casuals, which are not lesser skilled players. Should the game not try to make the game the most fun for most people and not cater to the worst skilled players that have a bunch of room to improve?

The combat in this game is not high skill capped, it is pretty simple to be honest and all about positioning. This isn't going to change, unless you want to make guided bullets, lock on mechanics.

"and should gamemechanics favor the better players who are better anyway or the casual players to flatten the gap?"

Should it be simplified enough that I can play it with my feet or should it allow for an easy to do the basics, but hard to master philosophy? Personally I believe that it important to allow people to improve, increase their skill and have mechanics that allow this to happen.

"Or is the game not for people who cannot get to that skill level?"

Yet you also claim that this isn't about: "nerfing everything down is not what i asked for or made this thread about!" But all skill levels must be competitive against anyone and everyone? How are you going to not nerf everything if a NBA and street basketball player need to be evened out by game mechanics? How am I twisting the post into something it isn't? Because I understand what the implications are?

You mean that people cannot learn to grab a blunder and wait on top of a ladder? Seriously this game is not that complicated to defend yourself if you learn the basics. Refuse to learn the basics any game is going to be hard. Should the game remove everything that requires skill and you expect average players to stick around if they can be a master at it without much effort?

This is a shared world, if I meet a NBA level player my behind is handed to me just as much as anyone else. I am not a pro, but there are very very few actual pro level players out there, the chances you meet them is slim and well they will beat you..

Why is losing in a game wrong? What is wrong with an outcome that isn't in your favor?

You don't seem to care about the Casual player, you care about the people that cannot land a shot, cannot pay attention to their ladders, cannot keep up in any type of combat... should we really cater to people without any skill and expect normal average players to still enjoy the game. Remove all skill elements! Because some people cannot keep up?

@bugaboo-bill said in your stance about casual players?:

@cotu42 sagte in your stance about casual players?:

@bugaboo-bill

tl:dr XD

save me from a wall of text just answer the quetions in the OP with yes or no.

Do you think casuals destroy games because devs cater too much to them and make all too easy?

No, but your notion is that it should cater to bad skilled players. Casuals are just as good as most dedicated gamers.

Do you think their lack of skill and them not willing to improve, but just want to have fun destroys games?

No, but it does limits your abilities to control your own experience and you will be more reliant on the mercy of others, which in an online game environment isn't a great idea. The better you are at a game the more control of any situation you will have, because you act in the correct way to achieve your own goals; be it flee or fight.

@bugaboo-bill

i dont know where i said so, but you get me wrong about that for sure!

you said in your stance about casual players?:

And do we need to cater to the better players or should we care for the less skilled players to have all fun together???

Any my questions was: What is your stance torwards casuals who are more often, but not allways, the less skilled players, nut exploiting, mainly playing for fun including PvP, but not out to "own" others at any cost and then trashtalk.

Your idea of a dedicated player is that they are skilled gods, not out for fun, only out to own others and then trash talk? While there are no casual players out for blood, owning others and trash talk?

Sorry, but I disagree with your basic notion that: Casuals are more often the less skilled player, not exploiting (using the same mechanics to do things), do not want to own/win at any cost or talk any less trash than others.

I am a dedicated gamer, I play games for fun, I am not out hunting others most of the time, I do not do trash talk unless you have issues with phrases like: Where is your treasure! usually I am silent when in battle or saying stuff to my crew about the fight. I have done more PvE than PvP in this game, I had your 'casual' players try to gank me, I had your 'casual' players swear and insult me when I attack them, I have beaten your 'casual' player in fights while outnumbered 1v4, I have high-jacked ships and spawn camped them all the way to the outpost to sell the loot on board.

Should I be denied my fun, because someone cannot beat me? I am really not some god at the game, I get beaten on a regular basis... I am respectful, have blown off attacks on new players or those alone on tall tales... does this make me a 'casual' because my hours, my rig and my attitude state differently.

Your notion that casuals and dedicated gamers are two different breeds is false. They are just as diverse and flawed as each other. The difference: Time spent in the game!

@bugaboo-bill well you keep returning to Low skilled player and how we should flatten the gap with skilled players. While you are asking about casual players?

What conclusion do you think people will take from that?

Time to Kill is equal among everyone, drawing out a fight might make the fight more fun according to some, yet it doesn't change much... actually the longer it takes to kill a skilled player, the more time they are given to recover, the more likely they will be able to save themselves. If you one-shot a skilled player with a blunder, regardless of how good they are... they are dead. Allow them to bounce back from the knock back, gain ground and reposition themselves - the more likely they will feel like unkillable.

It is a balance aspect and there is no one-size fits all approach, ttk is a double edged sword if you want to balance skill around it. To short and people have the feeling they couldn't do anything, to long and good players feel immortal.

• You are now stating sword should be one hit... complaining about double gunners which frankly has nothing to do with a casual or dedicated gamer. I am a sword user, I don't like double gunning... yet have no issues if others want to use it and since the sword buff it is evening out the meta a bit though not perfect. Though don't know what weapon balance and casuals have to do with each other.
• In games people will use exploits and glitches, welcome to the online world. I again am a dedicated gamer that doesn't quick run chests to their ship, etc. while I know more casual players that do.
• Cheesy ways to board: you mean hop, shoot blunder, get back on and climb? Or the wait for person to shoot, slice and time it properly? The nearly impossible grab the harpoon or rowboat? The get on board, bunny hop to the side / through them to avoid most of the damage? I don't know man, but it really isn't difficult to defend your ladders and if you claim any of the above does... it still isn't difficult.
• Tucking, seriously in this day if you manage to get on a ship unnoticed, tuck and hide without being found... you deserve it. It isn't that hard to check your ship for tuckers, they tend to come by rowboat or cannon shot. Awareness is a key skill to learn and just check your ship; there aren't that many spots they can hide: invisible... if you count their feet sticking out as invisible sure...

All these things are not limited to 'die-hard' players btw. once again you are attributing Play Style choices and skill to the casual or dedicated based on your stereotypical idea of what a dedicated player means?

Casuals are not some alien race inside games that are shiny, exploit free, friendly enemies that don't swear or insult you or call you names and that struggle playing the game or don't follow the pvp meta. We all need to adapt to the state of the game, whether you are a casual or a die-hard hardcore player, hear the double gunner hardcore PvPers complaining in other topics about the sword damage buff not allowing them to 1v4 everyone.

You are confusing very different aspects here and using them as synonyms I thought you wanted to talk about Casual Players and their influence on the game. Yet you seem dead set that they are not: Trash talkers, not as skilled as others, do not exploit, do not want to own people, all use a sword?

I am not getting your point, because you keep dragging unrelated aspects into the topic: Skill, Exploits, Weapon balance... what does that have to do with being a casual?

@bugaboo-bill

Don't ask me about the opinions of other people in other topics in a subject that isn't related to the topic you brought up?

The state of combat has nothing to do with: casuals
The state of exploit usage has nothing to do with: casuals
The ease of defending ladder has nothing to do with: casuals
Tucking has nothing to do with casuals.

You made a claim based on other stuff you read, yet expect everyone to have that reference? I am responding to what you write, not to what everyone in the world wrote at some point about this game.

I don't get it, because your notion of a casual is false, insulting to casuals to be completely fair. You make them out to be bad at games, you make them out to be oblivious about aspects of the game like tucking, combat meta or exploits.

Casuals are not destroying the game, catering to casuals will not destroy the game. Catering for no-skill, catering to people complaining they lose, catering to people that refuse to learn... that will kill the game.

Games are about and this doesn't change whether you are dedicated or a casual:

• Challenges
• Fun
• Improvement
• Winning
• Losing
• Sportmanship
• Interaction
• Risk and reward

Take responsibility for your game play, accept your limitations, adapt and learn to adjust and play in a way that suits you.