[Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena

  • I am guessing by now, that most people are posting without having read every post in this thread, but I have read quite a few.

    I am in two minds about The Arena. I don't totally hate the idea; but I do worry about its impact on the main game, if we are allowed to consider "Adventure" that.

    In these forums, we have been discussing lately how to bring PvP players together, so they can battle each other, and be rewarded for doing so, without encouraging excessive unwarranted attacks on PvE players. The Arena will certainly should achieve that aim.

    As I understand it, an event will start in a Tavern, and every crew will be given the same treasure map leading to a small part of the world; perhaps focused on a single island. Smugglers Bay featured in the trailer. I guess the crews are then ranked by the amount of treasure they bring back to the Tavern, either having dug it up themselves, or won it from other crews. If that's close, it's not a bad mechanic, and does provide the incentive for real PvP that we have been asking for.

    Someone somewhere in this thread asks whether The Arena is a separate mode to allow better management of server resources. I would not at all be surprised if this were true. Joe Neate said somewhere recently (perhaps in a Weekly Stream) that every time a new feature is considered these days, they need to carefully evaluate how it will fit in memory. To be honest, I am not sure if he meant server memory, or client memory.

    To add another four, five or six ships wanting to play Arena to an existing server would seriously impact performance. And in a classic "Adventure" world, if DeMarco were to just wait at his new Tavern for enough to turn up to get an Arena event going, it might never happen. So, I can see why it will be separate servers.

    It is a shame though. It would be so much better if a crew could decide to enter an Arena event, with the same battle-scarred, and well-stocked, ship, they have just used to complete an Athena run in the Devil's Roar. Or to complete an Arena event and sail off to do other adventures. It would be great to have access to the new Tavern in the Adventure world. Where is our hot tub!?!?

    As for the impact on the Adventure world, I think we can only wait and see. The Arena will take existing PvP players from Adventure for sure. It will also certainly attract new players. My guess is that some of those new players will spill across to the classic game and practice their PvP skills there too. As a result, I think the amount of PvP "menace" in the classic game could go either way: decrease, or increase.

    I have questions, of course:

    • Will all ships in an Arena event have to be the same size?
    • Will Arena events have skellies? Meg? Kraken?
    • Could you ignore the target island and sail off to other parts of the map?
    • Will DeMarco's Tavern be in the classic game? It could be the social hub, many have been asking for.
    • Is Shelly the Crab just going to be a trailer tease forever?
  • As much as I'm dissapointed by this split I hope 2 things now come of this mode being introduced

    1. Arenas is amazing. When I say amazing to the point where I could play for 4 hours straight and still want to carry on. It will then hopefully bring a hell of a lot of new players and bring those who left back cause if this arena mode sucks I think it may drive away some of the players who've stood by the game away also

    2. The adventure mode is added to dramatically in terms of lore with proper stories, new ai, new mechanics, wildlife, new npcs, make it feel alive and tons more to even make it worth bothering with

    I've enjoyed all the content so far but only when mixed in with the pvp. The pvp was already starting to dramatically declined and have said in other posts that I'm getting a bit sick of sea of friends but if arenas is rubbish and with adventure mode becoming even duller I'd take no pleasure in playing sea of thieves at all and will probably just drop it.

    Oh and as a solo player I seriously hope they consider allowing solo play within arenas otherwise being forced into a open crew especially against closed crews would just be a s##t show

  • This looks interesting, I can wait to fight in the Arena! By the way, I don't know if it's the best place to share it but here's a french dub I did of the trailer! Playing DeMarco was a lot of fun!

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @zeroe1ite said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer dude I dunno if you realize but gta online is getting its tail kicked by fortnite and pubg.most people don't have 3 hours or the mental willingness to commit to a game session of that length and that's why the battle royals are killing it.tbh if rare was shutting down the current game mode id be like oooo hell no but they arnt.to me I see this as a win,its getting the game more exposure which will only make it grow that much bigger.but dude from experience with pre release developers Im going to give you a word of advice,patience and persistence wins the race.if you want it now and don't know when its not your hill to die on then your likely to have a brain aneurism by the years end.

    Bro im fully aware of the BR craze and why it's Popular. I'm also painfully aware of the flaws of Share world game. You fail to understand that this was the reason for Dissapointment. It's now Likely we will never get to see a truly great Share World game as Rare was our last great champion for that. I'm not aganist BR in principle it's a fantastic Mode I just don't want it in every single game I wanted to have a game that could truly provide me the PvEvP Experiance and that for me and many other Was SoT. Rare can go the BR route or just the standered Arena route but they simply canpt hope to compete head on with the top studios in this feild there will be to much market saturation. This a simple Fact of Reality. Now maybe Rare could pull off a miracle as they still have the backing of MS. Still you have to be honest with yourself in whats more likely to happen is MS is going to stuff Rare back on the bench as they did their job of selling the gamepass and will put a whole new studio on the front line.

    Arena mode is a true PvPvE experience though. SoT is a PvE sandbox where you can kill each other to undermine other people's PvE efforts. Shared maps is a PvPvE experience because its merged PvP with PvE objectives.

    While true this will be a PvEvP arena enviroment as it will finally share a Goal. It will not proves the experiance that made me fall in love with the game. As it is a focuse is based on direct combat over loot. Not the stratigic theift of loot. But congratulations you got what you ask for. I tip my hat to you. I will work with you to make this mode the best it could be. I still say it would have been better to make it into designated areas in a session then use the server merging system to fill that particular area. They didn't have to make it a sepreate mode.

    Its not based on direct combat at all..

    And they had to make it a separate mode. You can't just redesign the base architecture of your game. This mode focuses all players attention on a limited amount of loot and creates a win condition. Adventure mode allows players to learn how to sail without much intervention of other players, and a more casual/social experience.

    I wasn't asking them to redsign there architecture i was asking for them to fix it and actually have it work the way it was advertised to. Having a sepreate mode is changing the disign architecture. Also the "Win" state is what i'm opposed to cause this game was not supposed to be made a direct competition. Agian I'm not agianst compations as i am very competitive and also i'm not conserned about "Toxic" Players. What i'm concerned about is this game losing it's core concept and providing the experiance i fell in love with as it was truly unique.

    Fixing it requires fundamental changes to voyages.

    No it didn't. If Arena is a seperate mode that means it will have it's own voyages and rewards. If that is the case they could have just added a new vendor Or given sepreate Mission Types to the current vendor and have the active quest itself track the ship. If the merging system would actually do it's job then once a ship comes into rendering range of the island they could have been merged with other ship from other servers doing the samething. It would have accomplished the excact same Goal with out a menu option.

    Yes... yes fundamental changes were required to fixing the PvE...

    For fixing PvE yes were taking about PvP. Now the Voyaging system will definitly need an overhaul as it will no longer serves it's purpose. Maybe we now we will get actual adventures in "Adventure Mode" But i highly doubt it. Maybe there is a large enough playerbase to support a near endless and mindless grind for cosmetic. Who knows for sure other then Rare. This we will sure findout soon enough. I'm just see way more evidence this will not be the case. I hope I'm wrong.

    The menu option is fine. This is nothing particularly bad about it. Its a player choice if they want loot to be more restricted or not. And as they've already stated they share progression systems... everything you do in the arena carries over to adventure mode, and vice versa.

    In terms of choice sure there's nothing wrong with it. As a matter of stratergy and principal then there is where we have a problem.

    And pirating is a direct competition.
    Wrong sir. Pirating is a profession and a skill that is about surpporting a lifestyle of freedom and surival. Theives don't nomally compete with other theives to steal something nor do merchant directly compete with pirates as they try to avoid them. The Priate Fantasy However is about adventure which this game actual lacks and "adventure" mode will make this abundantly clear.

    Your argument is ridiculous. This is a video game. Pirating in a game is a a direct competition when it happens. Its a direct conflict over resources or a space. Your trying to win over another player. It serves no other purpose within Sea of Thieves. Some games support thieves as just a way to progress based on play style.

    In what game exactly do theives directly compete with eachother. Theiving is about stealth and statergy. It's about social manipulation and charisma. It's about survival and choice. The fight over limited resources and space has to do with raiding which is only one aspect. Most theives actual work together.

    Adventure mode was flawed in certain ways but it might be better for casual players that just want to sail around and mess around with mechanics.

    The flaws will still be there the casuals won't. Might as well make it a striaght Co-Op adventure mode but they won't. So at best in the short term it will be Sea of Casual.

    Could have solved this issue long ago with better tutorial and a easier area that they could go back to to parctice or other literny of suggestion offered by the community. But just learning to sail is not gonna help them learn the skills they need for arena mode. I'm telling you now.

    That's only part of my argument. But allowing for a more casual space for non competitive players is necessary now that its in the game. Its kind of like flying in WoW... they admitted it kind of undermines game play but they can't undue it now.

    Man Sea of Theives has been undermining it's gamplay from day one. Arena is no different. Given a safe space for casuals is Rare underminding their own values.

    I don't think taking that away from them would have helped... having a mode that can allow for shorter play sessions and limited loot means will a purpose for piracy outside of a pinata mentality. Instead of kill everyone and see what falls out it. There will be a lot more strategic elements of when and how to address players, or completing a map. Because now they are all oppurtunity costs... currently you can just go out of your way, kill another player, then go back to what you were doing. But if you make that choice now, you might loose an opportunity to pick up another item of value elsewhere.

    Agian i will state that this game does need shorter time to content. There where better ways to do this. Making a seperate Mode just mean playing to seperate games as arena mode will require it's own set of skills and tactics. As players are garranted to be in active engagements.

    A separate mode is ABSOLUTELY necessary for players that just want to fight over loot primarily. Its not fun when the vast majority of players are bad or unwilling to engage that aspect of the game. They had to do this if they wanted to retain PvP players.

    Here is where i simply and respectfuly disagree as a fellow PvP'er.

    Everyone is suggesting this is bad because PvP players will leave making adventure mode more mundane... well, they are leaving any way. This just gives us a new place to go to instead of another game.

    This is a legitimate concern i don't see why you don't think it is.

    Incentive systems don't work, people don't play PvP games for incentives. They play it for the thrill of the fight and that has to be designed in to objectives.

    Excatly right we both agree here. Except the fight itself is an incentive system.

    And it can't be some separate layer in a sandbox, all players have to be playing the same objectives either on defense/offence.

    This agian is where i have to disagree. There have agian been many ideas given that could have accomplished this only one was tried and that was the reaper flag which it self was a concession to a more well established idea. As well as CCb which were poorly implemented and water downed verision of another idea. As well as Skelliton Ships as an alternate flashpoint. No true and complete solution was tried as the root of the issue was never adressed.

  • @qtrmaster-zeta said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    I was doubted for SoT making a focused pvp dlc. I got sorry messages for being doubted. This is freaking awesome! I'm a tease analyzer! My crew can't wait to #bemorepirate

    Yea, buddy! I have lamented for a battle mode for months but didn’t think Rare would do it considering some of their comments.

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @zeroe1ite said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer dude I dunno if you realize but gta online is getting its tail kicked by fortnite and pubg.most people don't have 3 hours or the mental willingness to commit to a game session of that length and that's why the battle royals are killing it.tbh if rare was shutting down the current game mode id be like oooo hell no but they arnt.to me I see this as a win,its getting the game more exposure which will only make it grow that much bigger.but dude from experience with pre release developers Im going to give you a word of advice,patience and persistence wins the race.if you want it now and don't know when its not your hill to die on then your likely to have a brain aneurism by the years end.

    Bro im fully aware of the BR craze and why it's Popular. I'm also painfully aware of the flaws of Share world game. You fail to understand that this was the reason for Dissapointment. It's now Likely we will never get to see a truly great Share World game as Rare was our last great champion for that. I'm not aganist BR in principle it's a fantastic Mode I just don't want it in every single game I wanted to have a game that could truly provide me the PvEvP Experiance and that for me and many other Was SoT. Rare can go the BR route or just the standered Arena route but they simply canpt hope to compete head on with the top studios in this feild there will be to much market saturation. This a simple Fact of Reality. Now maybe Rare could pull off a miracle as they still have the backing of MS. Still you have to be honest with yourself in whats more likely to happen is MS is going to stuff Rare back on the bench as they did their job of selling the gamepass and will put a whole new studio on the front line.

    Arena mode is a true PvPvE experience though. SoT is a PvE sandbox where you can kill each other to undermine other people's PvE efforts. Shared maps is a PvPvE experience because its merged PvP with PvE objectives.

    While true this will be a PvEvP arena enviroment as it will finally share a Goal. It will not proves the experiance that made me fall in love with the game. As it is a focuse is based on direct combat over loot. Not the stratigic theift of loot. But congratulations you got what you ask for. I tip my hat to you. I will work with you to make this mode the best it could be. I still say it would have been better to make it into designated areas in a session then use the server merging system to fill that particular area. They didn't have to make it a sepreate mode.

    Its not based on direct combat at all..

    And they had to make it a separate mode. You can't just redesign the base architecture of your game. This mode focuses all players attention on a limited amount of loot and creates a win condition. Adventure mode allows players to learn how to sail without much intervention of other players, and a more casual/social experience.

    I wasn't asking them to redsign there architecture i was asking for them to fix it and actually have it work the way it was advertised to. Having a sepreate mode is changing the disign architecture. Also the "Win" state is what i'm opposed to cause this game was not supposed to be made a direct competition. Agian I'm not agianst compations as i am very competitive and also i'm not conserned about "Toxic" Players. What i'm concerned about is this game losing it's core concept and providing the experiance i fell in love with as it was truly unique.

    Fixing it requires fundamental changes to voyages.

    No it didn't. If Arena is a seperate mode that means it will have it's own voyages and rewards. If that is the case they could have just added a new vendor Or given sepreate Mission Types to the current vendor and have the active quest itself track the ship. If the merging system would actually do it's job then once a ship comes into rendering range of the island they could have been merged with other ship from other servers doing the samething. It would have accomplished the excact same Goal with out a menu option.

    Yes... yes fundamental changes were required to fixing the PvE...

    The menu option is fine. This is nothing particularly bad about it. Its a player choice if they want loot to be more restricted or not. And as they've already stated they share progression systems... everything you do in the arena carries over to adventure mode, and vice versa.

    And pirating is a direct competition.
    Wrong sir. Pirating is a profession and a skill that is about surpporting a lifestyle of freedom and surival. Theives don't nomally compete with other theives to steal something nor do merchant directly compete with pirates as they try to avoid them. The Priate Fantasy However is about adventure which this game actual lacks and "adventure" mode will make this abundantly clear.

    Your argument is ridiculous. This is a video game. Pirating in a game is a a direct competition when it happens. Its a direct conflict over resources or a space. Your trying to win over another player. It serves no other purpose within Sea of Thieves. Some games support thieves as just a way to progress based on play style.

    Adventure mode was flawed in certain ways but it might be better for casual players that just want to sail around and mess around with mechanics.

    Could have solved this issue long ago with better tutorial and a easier area that they could go back to to parctice or other literny of suggestion offered by the community. But just learning to sail is not gonna help them learn the skills they need for arena mode. I'm telling you now.

    That's only part of my argument. But allowing for a more casual space for non competitive players is necessary now that its in the game. Its kind of like flying in WoW... they admitted it kind of undermines game play but they can't undue it now.

    I don't think taking that away from them would have helped... having a mode that can allow for shorter play sessions and limited loot means will a purpose for piracy outside of a pinata mentality. Instead of kill everyone and see what falls out it. There will be a lot more strategic elements of when and how to address players, or completing a map. Because now they are all oppurtunity costs... currently you can just go out of your way, kill another player, then go back to what you were doing. But if you make that choice now, you might loose an opportunity to pick up another item of value elsewhere.

    Agian i will state that this game does need shorter time to content. There where better ways to do this. Making a seperate Mode just mean playing to seperate games as arena mode will require it's own set of skills and tactics. As players are garranted to be in active engagements.

    A separate mode is ABSOLUTELY necessary for players that just want to fight over loot primarily. Its not fun when the vast majority of players are bad or unwilling to engage that aspect of the game. They had to do this if they wanted to retain PvP players. Everyone is suggesting this is bad because PvP players will leave making adventure mode more mundane... well, they are leaving any way. This just gives us a new place to go to instead of another game. Incentive systems don't work, people don't play PvP games for incentives. They play it for the thrill of the fight and that has to be designed in to objectives. And it can't be some separate layer in a sandbox, all players have to be playing the same objectives either on defense/offence.

    That is a good point about players leaving. But I am not sure it is just that PvP players are leaving. I enjoy PvP but I am planning to leave as there is nothing to do past Pirate Legend! Most of the players that really honest to god love Sea of Thieves like myself are Pirate Legend. I am a casual gamer! As is my crew, were Pirate Legends. There is nothing else left for us.

    And since there is nothing left for the majority of us Sea of Theives lovers, many have already left. So their are not many experienced crews around that are looking to challenge and steal.

    TLDR: Dedicated PvP types probably are a tiny community in SOT. Exodus of players is not PvP types, it is normal SOT lovers who love the concept but have no further content at PL beyond PvP. Adding a PvP mode is not necessarily going to keep them around the game. It’s not what SOT was about.

  • @biter-wylie progress is a wonderful thing. Evolution is the natural order. What SoT is does not define what it could be.

  • @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    For fixing PvE yes were taking about PvP. Now the Voyaging system will definitly need an overhaul as it will no longer serves it's purpose. Maybe we now we will get actual adventures in "Adventure Mode" But i highly doubt it. Maybe there is a large enough playerbase to support a near endless and mindless grind for cosmetic. Who knows for sure other then Rare. This we will sure findout soon enough. I'm just see way more evidence this will not be the case. I hope I'm wrong.

    Well its a dual problem, in order to fix PvE it had to change, it could be more PvP, it could be more PvE. The too scenarios will not mix. They never work successfully together in a sandbox. You either have to focus on a shared goal during the match, or there needs to be something worth investing time in for PvE.

    In terms of choice sure there's nothing wrong with it. As a matter of stratergy and principal then there is where we have a problem.

    Thats not an argument for why changing the strategy and principle is going to be damaging. In this case the mixing of two wildly different player bases that see PvP fundamentally different was creating a problem.

    In what game exactly do theives directly compete with eachother. Theiving is about stealth and statergy. It's about social manipulation and charisma. It's about survival and choice. The fight over limited resources and space has to do with raiding which is only one aspect. Most theives actual work together.

    This game. Thieving on it's is not about manipulation and charisma, your thinking of a con artist. There are many ways to thieve and piracy isn't traditionally conning people out of their stuff. You take it through force. And in this game both players are given the tools to do so on an equal bases. In this game thievery is a competitive activity. It creates a defender and an attacker dynamically... it just did it poorly.

    The flaws will still be there the casuals won't. Might as well make it a striaght Co-Op adventure mode but they won't. So at best in the short term it will be Sea of Casual.

    They might get bored and come to the arena.

    Man Sea of Theives has been undermining it's gamplay from day one. Arena is no different. Given a safe space for casuals is Rare underminding their own values.

    The arena is definitely different. Because the choices that lead to undermining game play were only for some individuals. Some people enjoy being in alliances and casually just wandering around talking to each other and picking up quests. Some people like murdering everyone in sight for free planks.

    Here is where i simply and respectfuly disagree as a fellow PvP'er.

    And your wrong. They created the casual adventure space, now its here to stay.

    This is a legitimate concern i don't see why you don't think it is.

    Where did I say it wasn't a concern? And why would PvPers want to stay? There are too many good games coming out and BR game modes are a better sandbox PvP game.

    This agian is where i have to disagree. There have agian been many ideas given that could have accomplished this only one was tried and that was the reaper flag which it self was a concession to a more well established idea. As well as CCb which were poorly implemented and water downed verision of another idea. As well as Skelliton Ships as an alternate flashpoint. No true and complete solution was tried as the root of the issue was never adressed.

    What is the root of the issue?

    Its that there is no reliable way to get people to fight each other in a sandbox where there are many objectives and people will consistently play for different reasons. None of the proposed solutions address that issue. Its always lets give people a reason to attack someone else... on top of many things you can do to get value out of the game. Fighting is just something you could do, not something you must do to achieve any goal.

  • @biter-wylie said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @zeroe1ite said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer dude I dunno if you realize but gta online is getting its tail kicked by fortnite and pubg.most people don't have 3 hours or the mental willingness to commit to a game session of that length and that's why the battle royals are killing it.tbh if rare was shutting down the current game mode id be like oooo hell no but they arnt.to me I see this as a win,its getting the game more exposure which will only make it grow that much bigger.but dude from experience with pre release developers Im going to give you a word of advice,patience and persistence wins the race.if you want it now and don't know when its not your hill to die on then your likely to have a brain aneurism by the years end.

    Bro im fully aware of the BR craze and why it's Popular. I'm also painfully aware of the flaws of Share world game. You fail to understand that this was the reason for Dissapointment. It's now Likely we will never get to see a truly great Share World game as Rare was our last great champion for that. I'm not aganist BR in principle it's a fantastic Mode I just don't want it in every single game I wanted to have a game that could truly provide me the PvEvP Experiance and that for me and many other Was SoT. Rare can go the BR route or just the standered Arena route but they simply canpt hope to compete head on with the top studios in this feild there will be to much market saturation. This a simple Fact of Reality. Now maybe Rare could pull off a miracle as they still have the backing of MS. Still you have to be honest with yourself in whats more likely to happen is MS is going to stuff Rare back on the bench as they did their job of selling the gamepass and will put a whole new studio on the front line.

    Arena mode is a true PvPvE experience though. SoT is a PvE sandbox where you can kill each other to undermine other people's PvE efforts. Shared maps is a PvPvE experience because its merged PvP with PvE objectives.

    While true this will be a PvEvP arena enviroment as it will finally share a Goal. It will not proves the experiance that made me fall in love with the game. As it is a focuse is based on direct combat over loot. Not the stratigic theift of loot. But congratulations you got what you ask for. I tip my hat to you. I will work with you to make this mode the best it could be. I still say it would have been better to make it into designated areas in a session then use the server merging system to fill that particular area. They didn't have to make it a sepreate mode.

    Its not based on direct combat at all..

    And they had to make it a separate mode. You can't just redesign the base architecture of your game. This mode focuses all players attention on a limited amount of loot and creates a win condition. Adventure mode allows players to learn how to sail without much intervention of other players, and a more casual/social experience.

    I wasn't asking them to redsign there architecture i was asking for them to fix it and actually have it work the way it was advertised to. Having a sepreate mode is changing the disign architecture. Also the "Win" state is what i'm opposed to cause this game was not supposed to be made a direct competition. Agian I'm not agianst compations as i am very competitive and also i'm not conserned about "Toxic" Players. What i'm concerned about is this game losing it's core concept and providing the experiance i fell in love with as it was truly unique.

    Fixing it requires fundamental changes to voyages.

    No it didn't. If Arena is a seperate mode that means it will have it's own voyages and rewards. If that is the case they could have just added a new vendor Or given sepreate Mission Types to the current vendor and have the active quest itself track the ship. If the merging system would actually do it's job then once a ship comes into rendering range of the island they could have been merged with other ship from other servers doing the samething. It would have accomplished the excact same Goal with out a menu option.

    Yes... yes fundamental changes were required to fixing the PvE...

    The menu option is fine. This is nothing particularly bad about it. Its a player choice if they want loot to be more restricted or not. And as they've already stated they share progression systems... everything you do in the arena carries over to adventure mode, and vice versa.

    And pirating is a direct competition.
    Wrong sir. Pirating is a profession and a skill that is about surpporting a lifestyle of freedom and surival. Theives don't nomally compete with other theives to steal something nor do merchant directly compete with pirates as they try to avoid them. The Priate Fantasy However is about adventure which this game actual lacks and "adventure" mode will make this abundantly clear.

    Your argument is ridiculous. This is a video game. Pirating in a game is a a direct competition when it happens. Its a direct conflict over resources or a space. Your trying to win over another player. It serves no other purpose within Sea of Thieves. Some games support thieves as just a way to progress based on play style.

    Adventure mode was flawed in certain ways but it might be better for casual players that just want to sail around and mess around with mechanics.

    Could have solved this issue long ago with better tutorial and a easier area that they could go back to to parctice or other literny of suggestion offered by the community. But just learning to sail is not gonna help them learn the skills they need for arena mode. I'm telling you now.

    That's only part of my argument. But allowing for a more casual space for non competitive players is necessary now that its in the game. Its kind of like flying in WoW... they admitted it kind of undermines game play but they can't undue it now.

    I don't think taking that away from them would have helped... having a mode that can allow for shorter play sessions and limited loot means will a purpose for piracy outside of a pinata mentality. Instead of kill everyone and see what falls out it. There will be a lot more strategic elements of when and how to address players, or completing a map. Because now they are all oppurtunity costs... currently you can just go out of your way, kill another player, then go back to what you were doing. But if you make that choice now, you might loose an opportunity to pick up another item of value elsewhere.

    Agian i will state that this game does need shorter time to content. There where better ways to do this. Making a seperate Mode just mean playing to seperate games as arena mode will require it's own set of skills and tactics. As players are garranted to be in active engagements.

    A separate mode is ABSOLUTELY necessary for players that just want to fight over loot primarily. Its not fun when the vast majority of players are bad or unwilling to engage that aspect of the game. They had to do this if they wanted to retain PvP players. Everyone is suggesting this is bad because PvP players will leave making adventure mode more mundane... well, they are leaving any way. This just gives us a new place to go to instead of another game. Incentive systems don't work, people don't play PvP games for incentives. They play it for the thrill of the fight and that has to be designed in to objectives. And it can't be some separate layer in a sandbox, all players have to be playing the same objectives either on defense/offence.

    That is a good point about players leaving. But I am not sure it is just that PvP players are leaving. I enjoy PvP but I am planning to leave as there is nothing to do past Pirate Legend

    Let me just stop you there. I don't care about players like you. There is no reason to play games based on that reasoning alone.

    The game caters to PvP players far more then it will ever cater to a gamer like yourself. There is no functional point to PL and its only useful to people who enjoy playing the game and want to show off their dedication.

  • @themasterplan84
    Great post

  • It's not a direction I expected Rare to take with SoT and it might also not be something the "pure PvP players" would want ... probably still need to get supplies before you take on another crew; people leaving and joining the game mid-battle will still be a pain and so on.

    While I see the appeal for going to battle other ships more quickly after starting the game, at least for those that care for "just PvP", I doubt that the majority of players will keep playing Arena mode only and as such I am not worried for the development of Adventure mode in the future.

  • @scraping-static

    Not really misunderstanding, more just failing to resist commenting on a pet peeve. Don't mind me. =P

    As for the arena mode....

    Eh, just as long as I don't have to touch it with a thirty-nine and a half foot pole, I really don't care. The truth of the matter is that the new mode WILL impact the newly named "Adventure Mode". To what extent, we can only wait and see.

    Rare have stated their intention to keep Adventure mode the focus and continue to grow it's gameplay and features, and I trust them about as much as I can trust a business. (Which admittedly is a low bar)

    I'm gonna keep sailing, treasure hunting, exploring, lazing about, and generally goofing off. What the long term outcome of this will be is unknown, but I'm already strapped in and fully intend on riding this mother into the sun.

  • @gow-fluid The volcanoes are that threat.

  • @lem0n-curry said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    It's not a direction I expected Rare to take with SoT and it might also not be something the "pure PvP players" would want ... probably still need to get supplies before you take on another crew; people leaving and joining the game mid-battle will still be a pain and so on.

    While I see the appeal for going to battle other ships more quickly after starting the game, at least for those that care for "just PvP", I doubt that the majority of players will keep playing Arena mode only and as such I am not worried for the development of Adventure mode in the future.

    You hit the nail on the head. Who? Who? Seriously who brought Sea of Thieves expecting a PvP game? It’s is so clearly not that.

    The issue is, the game launched with almost no content, now Rare are playing catch up, but players are already exiting the building.

    All the new stuff is great if you just purchased the game.. But if you have been playing for 6 months means nothing, your already maxed out.

    There is nothing for the people that started when the game launched! And they are your game ambassadors!

    Sure bored players will switch over to Sea of Theives Arena, and then leave, as that’s not what they brought the game for. It’s not their style.

    Meantime Sea of Theives main mode or whatever it is now, will die with obviously already stretched resources and no new content.

    And are Fortnight player types going to suddenly buy a £60 game with a BR mode just for a limited PvP mode with below average combat? No of course not!

  • @khaleesibot My only concern is that I don't want the devs to favor one over the other. I want them to still support the "adventure'' for years to come.

  • I'm a big fan of the PVP in Sea of Thieves, it's a really important aspect for me.

    I didn't take the time to sift through the thread, that being said, I wanted to throw my thoughts on the Arena in this pond of feedback.

    I said previously that I was a big fan of PVP, and this is particularly due to the fact that it has so many variables to take into account and this plays tremendously in the feeling of adventure and excitement that is particular to Sea of Thieves.

    With the introduction of The Arena, especially if it's instanced outside of "Adventure mode", I feel like the identity of Sea of Thieves might fragment itself. Will we still see the occasional Boom Skellie during a match of Arena? Will Meg attack while ships are duking it out on the Seas?

    Also, considering that the matchmaking in Sea of Thieves is pretty limited, what will happen when people throw/grief Arena games? What happens when people disconnect? In time we will know, but these two questions have me worried.

    Also, this type of update will inevitably fire up the Crossplay debate again. Console players are at a disadvantage in cqc.

    I feel like the concept is great, but if this misses the mark, it might be more damaging than anything.

  • The Arena IS NOT BATTLE ROYALE. Stop saying it is.

    Battle Royale is a fight to the last man standing where every player has a single life. This is a treasure hunt with crews trying to gather the most gold. It's completely different. Stop referring to it as SOT Battle Royale. Not every multiplayer game mode is BR or a "Fortnite ripoff".

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    For fixing PvE yes were taking about PvP. Now the Voyaging system will definitly need an overhaul as it will no longer serves it's purpose. Maybe we now we will get actual adventures in "Adventure Mode" But i highly doubt it. Maybe there is a large enough playerbase to support a near endless and mindless grind for cosmetic. Who knows for sure other then Rare. This we will sure findout soon enough. I'm just see way more evidence this will not be the case. I hope I'm wrong.

    Well its a dual problem, in order to fix PvE it had to change, it could be more PvP, it could be more PvE. The too scenarios will not mix. They never work successfully together in a sandbox. You either have to focus on a shared goal during the match, or there needs to be something worth investing time in for PvE.

    Well i agree that PvP and PvE elements don't mix well in this game. I disagree that with your belief that they couldn't be made it mix well. I see the problem steming from poor implementation weather the a conceptual flaw. The dynamics where simply to underdeveloped. You think that the only viable option was to keep them seperate but this is the lack of Vision. To try and explore new possibilities then stick to conventional trends.

    In terms of choice sure there's nothing wrong with it. As a matter of stratergy and principal then there is where we have a problem.

    Thats not an argument for why changing the strategy and principle is going to be damaging. In this case the mixing of two wildly different player bases that see PvP fundamentally different was creating a problem.

    Frist off I already explianed why this is damaging in the long term in an early post. Secondly Rare created a false impression of what PvP and PvE was. Calling it a SWAG. We never truly got a goonies style adventure. We never got a Sea constantly populated with new players. We never got the Sea of Theives that was advertised. What we have is a loot grinder wrap in a Pvp arena with no reason to steal loot. The playerbase was not the problem the game and it's advertisment was.

    In what game exactly do theives directly compete with eachother. Theiving is about stealth and statergy. It's about social manipulation and charisma. It's about survival and choice. The fight over limited resources and space has to do with raiding which is only one aspect. Most theives actual work together.

    This game.
    I besides this one.
    Thieving on it's is not about manipulation and charisma, your thinking of a con artist.

    Pirates were con artist to. They were also buisness men. The whole pirate persona is centered around their cunning and wittness. Think of Jack Sparrow. As a personality and a sterotype.

    There are many ways to thieve and piracy isn't traditionally conning people out of their stuff.

    You sure about that buddy cause i think you have a narrow view of what a pirate is. Were there Cut Throats sure there were but not all.

    You take it through force. And in this game both players are given the tools to do so on an equal bases. In this game thievery is a competitive activity. It creates a defender and an attacker dynamically... it just did it poorly.

    Thats one Method but it's not the sole method. What about the Pirate ninjas in the community or did you forget about them. Or the the dirty alliance backstabbers.
    But yes they did it poorly as Loot itself was made pointless to steal as it was meant to be a more risky but faster way to obtain loot. It failed to be that.

    The flaws will still be there the casuals won't. Might as well make it a striaght Co-Op adventure mode but they won't. So at best in the short term it will be Sea of Casual.

    They might get bored and come to the arena.

    At best all that means is arena will become the defualt more while OG Sot will be left to wither away abandoned and forgotten.

    Man Sea of Theives has been undermining it's gamplay from day one. Arena is no different. Given a safe space for casuals is Rare underminding their own values.

    The arena is definitely different. Because the choices that lead to undermining game play were only for some individuals.

    No there were undermining aspects that affected all player they just didn't reconize them. Most players were just wrap in the own gamplay and the experiences are unique to each player many have never seen the game as a Whole. It require a large time investment to experiance it all. Requiring to also play during different times IRL which most player simply can't do.

    Some people enjoy being in alliances and casually just wandering around talking to each other and picking up quests. Some people like murdering everyone in sight for free planks.

    Yes this game has a diverse set of players. But it player spawn killing for planks was an issue caused by Rare poor disicions. I know cause i'm one of them. They made it so ships had nothing worth stealing except supplies and they made it so if i sunk the ship i couldn't get the supplies. They made me have to kill in order to steal.

    Here is where i simply and respectfuly disagree as a fellow PvP'er.

    And your wrong. They created the casual adventure space, now its here to stay.

    This is where i weep for this game. It may lose me as a pvp'er I just hope there implementation of arena mode is better cause so far they have given me no reson to belive they can do it well. Since the already went back on what they said twice now i have no reason to belive them and they could just as well give up on arena mode just as easily.

    This is a legitimate concern i don't see why you don't think it is.

    Where did I say it wasn't a concern? And why would PvPers want to stay? There are too many good games coming out and BR game modes are a better sandbox PvP game.

    This is My main concern right there. There are much better games to be played. What does SoT have to offer. A mouth full of hype and a bag full of broken promises and crush dreams. Nah Man they got nothing of subtances. All the same flaws will be there. Hey may i'm wrong and they'll fix the game. I come back and we can chat a have a laf how i was so wrong a paranoid.

    This agian is where i have to disagree. There have agian been many ideas given that could have accomplished this only one was tried and that was the reaper flag which it self was a concession to a more well established idea. As well as CCb which were poorly implemented and water downed verision of another idea. As well as Skelliton Ships as an alternate flashpoint. No true and complete solution was tried as the root of the issue was never adressed.

    What is the root of the issue?

    Did we not already discuss this.

    Its that there is no reliable way to get people to fight each other in a sandbox where there are many objectives and people will consistently play for different reasons. None of the proposed solutions address that issue. Its always lets give people a reason to attack someone else... on top of many things you can do to get value out of the game. Fighting is just something you could do, not something you must do to achieve any goal.

    Look the way i see it There are only 2 possiboe outcomes.

    1. All the PvP'er and harcore player come to arena more leaving a shallow PvE server for noobs and casuals to play in showing all it's flaws as grind will be quick and mind numbing easy. Which may get some of those player to try arena mode. Making it the defualt mode which player are gonning to know for sure just how unbalanced and simplistic PvP is.

    2. A sample of dedicate PvP player still engage in Adventure mode which will agian cause casual to complian as it does not solve the issue and Most of the PvP base that came just for arena will bounce to better games like Black Wake and Skull and Bones.

    One of these is clearly the best case senario while the other is the worst. Etheir way the Sot That i wanted is dead.

  • @tedakin
    All PvP = Battle royal.
    Every game = Fornite
    It's pretty simple man.

  • @betsill You're right. Every PVP mode is now called Battle Royale. Even Capture the Flag. It's now Battle Royale.

  • #seaoffortnite had I known this would have been coming to the game I wouldn't have bought it. I have no desire to play this stupid "new" mode and good job rare on doing what you said you wouldnt... splitting the player base!

  • @death-pilot37

    I have no desire to play this stupid "new" mode

    Then don't
    http://gph.is/2AmePHo

  • @enf0rcer said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    Well i agree that PvP and PvE elements don't mix well in this game. I disagree that with your belief that they couldn't be made it mix well. I see the problem steming from poor implementation weather the a conceptual flaw. The dynamics where simply to underdeveloped. You think that the only viable option was to keep them seperate but this is the lack of Vision. To try and explore new possibilities then stick to conventional trends.

    Again, I don't see this as a split or a departure from their core idea. I consider "adventure mode" something they are now stuck with because you can't really change the fundamentals of a game mode everyone already bought.

    Frist off I already explianed why this is damaging in the long term in an early post. Secondly Rare created a false impression of what PvP and PvE was. Calling it a SWAG. We never truly got a goonies style adventure. We never got a Sea constantly populated with new players. We never got the Sea of Theives that was advertised. What we have is a loot grinder wrap in a Pvp arena with no reason to steal loot. The playerbase was not the problem the game and it's advertisment was.

    Arena is basically most of that though. I don't know what you mean by goonies style adventure. The game mode was bad because of the dead time it created and it ended up pulling in to many "progression" based PvE focused people. The advertising was fine. The arena... is still a shared world adventure game. Your still getting maps, your still playing along side a bunch of other people, you can still avoid/confront players. They were talking about that today.

    Pirates were con artist to. They were also buisness men. The whole pirate persona is centered around their cunning and wittness. Think of Jack Sparrow. As a personality and a sterotype.
    You sure about that buddy cause i think you have a narrow view of what a pirate is. Were there Cut Throats sure there were but not all.

    This has nothing to do with anything. This is just BS. Piracy is the act of attacking and robbing ships at see. As a gameplay function its competition over some valuable resource one player is already holding.

    They didn't con people. They threatened people on the seas and took their stuff either through compliance or murder. Jack sparrow is an invention. He's not based on any real pirate.

    Thats one Method but it's not the sole method. What about the Pirate ninjas in the community or did you forget about them. Or the the dirty alliance backstabbers.

    No thats still competition. Your supposed to be vigilante and protect your loot, or take someone elses. It doesn't matter if your doing it under their noses or over their corpses... your still taking their stuff and they are losing it. I don't see why you think this distinction matters?

    At best all that means is arena will become the defualt more while OG Sot will be left to wither away abandoned and forgotten.

    Right... so a redesign without kicking sand into people's faces that are enjoying the more casual space.

    Yes this game has a diverse set of players. But it player spawn killing for planks was an issue caused by Rare poor disicions. I know cause i'm one of them. They made it so ships had nothing worth stealing except supplies and they made it so if i sunk the ship i couldn't get the supplies. They made me have to kill in order to steal.

    That's not an issue. You can scuttle. The problem is solved already. The only thing that gets in the way of this working is people's pride and opting in to getting spawn camped.

    This is My main concern right there. There are much better games to be played. What does SoT have to offer. A mouth full of hype and a bag full of broken promises and crush dreams. Nah Man they got nothing of subtances. All the same flaws will be there. Hey may i'm wrong and they'll fix the game. I come back and we can chat a have a laf how i was so wrong a paranoid.

    SoT has unique and amazing PvP. No BR stands up to this title when this its hitting its stride. Hell multiple big streamers were all ready to board the SoT train and it flopped hard because the amount of PvE only players caused a disastrous scenario where everyone was either bored looking for a fight or frustrated losing their loot.

    Look the way i see it There are only 2 possiboe outcomes.

    1. All the PvP'er and harcore player come to arena more leaving a shallow PvE server for noobs and casuals to play in showing all it's flaws as grind will be quick and mind numbing easy. Which may get some of those player to try arena mode. Making it the defualt mode which player are gonning to know for sure just how unbalanced and simplistic PvP is.

    2. A sample of dedicate PvP player still engage in Adventure mode which will agian cause casual to complian as it does not solve the issue and Most of the PvP base that came just for arena will bounce to better games like Black Wake and Skull and Bones.

    One of these is clearly the best case senario while the other is the worst. Etheir way the Sot That i wanted is dead.

    The PvP is fine. Its really not that simplistic. The vast majority of good FPS games are far more simplistic as there are no ships/resources/PvE elements. And even then the differences between the weapons are enough that there are really good tactics to use and different ways of approaching enemies.

    Again this is what SoT is offering compared to the plethora of copy pasta BR game types. If it wasn't for the stupid amount of dead time, and diluting the player base with docile puppies the game would have done much much better. At least from a critical standpoint that kept the fun and engaging aspect right on the horizon.

  • @death-pilot37 It's nothing like Fortnite. NOTHING.

  • alt text

  • @betsill I won't be playing #seaoffortnite anytime soon or in the future. It doesnt belong in this game and shouldn't even be considered when theres plenty of other games not called sea of thieves to play with this stupid "arena aka br mode". You know the game is dying a horrible death when they have to make it like another game to even have a chance!

  • @death-pilot37 said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @betsill I won't be playing #seaoffortnite anytime soon or in the future. It doesnt belong in this game and shouldn't even be considered when theres plenty of other games not called sea of thieves to play with this stupid "are a aka br mode". You know the game is dying a horrible death when they have to make it like another game to even have a chance!

    Its not a br mode though. Did you even listen to them speak?

  • @savagetwinky doesnt matter what it is, it doesnt belong in this game! I honestly hope this sinks this game completely. I hate to say that but if we are going to kill it let's do it the right way with a bullet in the forehead. I hope this game goes straight to Davey Jones locker!

  • @death-pilot37 said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky doesnt matter what it is, it doesnt belong in this game! I honestly hope this sinks this game completely. I hate to say that but if we are going to kill it let's do it the right way with a bullet in the forehead. I hope this game goes straight to Davey Jones locker!

    What? This is irrational.

  • While I don't like the idea of splitting the player base, the one positive out of this is that people playing adventure mode will more than likely actually be up for the adventure and doing quests.

  • @savagetwinky
    If PvP game mode= "true"
    then print("battle royal")

    If game has PvP= "true"
    then print("fornite clone")

  • @savagetwinky right now debating all of the skeptics and haters
    rogue one Darth Vader

  • @death-pilot37 said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @betsill I won't be playing #seaoffortnite anytime soon or in the future. It doesnt belong in this game and shouldn't even be considered when theres plenty of other games not called sea of thieves to play with this stupid "arena aka br mode". You know the game is dying a horrible death when they have to make it like another game to even have a chance!

    I tried dialing that number into my phone and calling but it said that number isn’t in service. Am I doing something wrong or is it a non existent phone #?

  • @death-pilot37 You could just quit playing if you don't like it, but you want the game to be sunk for everyone who still enjoys it and will continue to play it. You can still play Sea of Thieves. That game still exists and will continue to. I don't understand the outrage. And before you say "oh but it will segment the game and there will no ships in the Adventure mode" that's total BS. The game and servers compile active players together to ensure that doesn't happen. it does that now and it'll do that then.

    I'm a pirate legend and have little to do these days. I'm excited for this new mode. It'll KEEP me playing.

  • @betsill said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky
    If PvP game mode= "true"
    then print("battle royal")

    If game has PvP= "true"
    then print("fornite clone")

    I didn't realize I was playing PvP all this time.

    @wkd1337 said in [Mega Thread] Sea of Thieves: The Arena:

    @savagetwinky right now debating all of skeptics and haters

    I kind of think the general premise was my idea. Don't I have to defend it? The original version was from a post a made in response to like the 500th bounty suggestion... Regardless of where they actually got the idea from it'll be interesting to see if an idea I had works.

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