[Mega Thread] Alliances

  • I think the main problem is the loot.. 3 or 4 times the allies turned on us leaving us with a sinking ship and got all of the gold because they just left the allie.. that should get a ban or something like that.. really kills the gameplay somehow.

  • @potentanarchist said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @sten-whik said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @potentanarchist

    I'm talking about any ship handing in the loot. Currently they get 100% so with this alone on paper there isn't a reason for a ship with loot on to mutiny but equally there also isn't a reason for them not to mutiny. Because of this I keep seeing ship crews missing that there is a long term benefit to sticking in the alliance (the 50% gained from other ships) or don't care because they are about to go offline before they can benefit and breaking off the alliance for their own enjoyment.

    I had this debate last night with the alliance crew I was in. One guy was like "I don't want them benefitting from our gold, lets break the alliance" and I was like "Dude, they are running a skull fort, about to turn in upwards of 12K+ in gold, why the hell would we NOT want half of that for FREE?' I don't understand the logic of A LOT of players.

    Yeah a big one yesterday was we had the whole server in one alliance, four ships were doing Athenas and two ships Cursed Sails. A few minutes before my ship handed in a Chest of Legends (and after several Chest of Legends had already been handed in) the Cursed Sails ships beat the last Skeleton Ship and mutinied with the loot.

    Funnily enough I then ran into one of the ships much later after all the other ships had left the server, I told them what they missed out on, we formed a new alliance with other new ships and then after beating a Skeleton Ship crew two of those new ships mutinied.

  • My idea on communication within the alliance:

    When watching the map when in an alliance. You can access the radial wheel to select the speaking trumpet. When looking at the map with it selected you can speak to all the ships in the alliance. The sound comes from a strange cursed skeleton skull placed on the shelf.

    The sound is not as loud as if someone was using the speaking trumpet. More like someone talking on a walkie talkie trying to get contact with the alliance ships.

    This could be handy when in need of assistance if attacked by other ships. Or when the alliance need to move to an area for a event etc.

    When communicating with the alliance the skull's jaw would move and the curse make the hollow eye sockets glow as the old evil magic activates. There could also be a skull up on deck by the ship's wheel. So that you can hear what's going on with the alliance. But you would have to go down to the map to communicate back.

    The cursed skull could be an event in itself to get. And something everyone get's at a later date like with the drums and speaking trumpet etc....

  • Alliance Communication - We Have All the Tools We Need

    I've read various ideas for intercommunication between allied ships, from carrier pigeons to mermaids to radios. While I understand the motivation for these ideas, I think we're really missing the boat here.

    We have all the tools we need for inter-ship communication. We have flags. We have gestures. We have speaking horns. We have lanterns and ship lights. We also have the ability to meet in person at an outpost to plan before we even set sail. We essentially have every tool available to 17th century pirates. The problem is not that we don't have the right tools. The problem is we're not bothering to use them.

    Consider this scenario.

    Your brigantine crew chances upon a galleon at Galleon's Grave, just about to set sail to do battle with the skeleton ships. You parley via speaking trumpets and agree to form an alliance. Leaving someone on the lookout, the rest of your crew meets in the tavern to discuss a strategy. While your talking, a sloop comes along and also joins the alliance. You decide that the galleon will raise sails in the battle arena and act as a floating fortress, while the brigantine circles to draw fire from the skeleton ships. The sloop will be used to get crew members on board the skeleton ships, as well as run interference and help repair the other vessels. (Don't ask me if this is a successful strategy, I'm making this up as I go. Bear with me.)

    During the battle, the galleon is badly damaged and taking on water fast. A member of the crew puts on the aft lantern, signaling to the other ships they need help. The sloop quickly sails to the galleon and boards to help with repairs and bailing. Meanwhile, the brigantine sails by and draws the skeleton ship away. The galleon saved, the aft light is extinguished and the blue flag raised, indicating they're ready to fight. The brig comes hard about and lures the skeletal ships into the galleon's broadside cannons.

    And so on and so forth. We have so many great tools for communication. We don't need radios, carrier pigeons or mermaid delivery services. Rare has provided everything we need. It's up to us to actually use the tools at our disposal.

  • @genuine-heather If Sea of Thieves was more of an authentic sailing and pirating game then I would agree with you.

    But this is a fantasy sailing and pirating game. And where we have a wide range of players be it new to experienced. From kids to adults. And where there is a fun humorous setting in everything about the game.

    No one will flash lights, raise and lower flags and communicate like you describe. No one. It wouldn't feel natural to the game and who would know what to do?

    It has to be something that fits the tone of the game. And I think my idea is spot on.

  • For all the People complaining about Alliance. This post is for you.

    Sea of Thieves (Sea of Friends)

    The alliance system was created to help people share loot or work together since they saw it happening in the Hungering Deep. You have to understand your playing a pirates game. Pirates will always betray one another over loot. This isn't CLUB PENGUIN where everyone works together and hold hands. This isn't a perfect world where you see unicorns and dolphins running around with rainbows.

    Let it sink in your brain. Sometimes you will have people that will work with you and some betray you. Thats a pirates game. I have had problems as well as my friends did but did we complain no because we are playing a game based on pirates. Now if you don't understand the meaning of the WORD pirates I will be happy to make a 4 hour video defining the word pirate for you since you don't understand the game you are playing. I had times where 4 galleons and sloop worked together and sometimes where 2 galleons betrayed us. Did we sit on our ship and cry and wait for mommy to come hold us? No? lol

    ITS A PIRATES GAME NOT A PENGUIN GAME. Have fun :D

    P.S if you don't like pvp games. Club Penguin will always be there for you.

    http://gph.is/1SUXHvy

  • @hydrapilot42 Not 'whining' about alliances. Just stating the fact that in its current form alliances are useless and rare might as well take them out of the game.
    Yes its a pirate game and yes betrayal is part of the game .. but it was like that before they introduced alliances.
    Alliances will only work if: Friendly fire is turned off and alliances can only be disbanded when all alliance members agree. Otherwise worth nothing.

  • @hawat1 said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @hydrapilot42 Not 'whining' about alliances. Just stating the fact that in its current form alliances are useless and rare might as well take them out of the game.
    Yes its a pirate game and yes betrayal is part of the game .. but it was like that before they introduced alliances.
    Alliances will only work if: Friendly fire is turned off and alliances can only be disbanded when all alliance members agree. Otherwise worth nothing.

    Yes. And betrayal won't really be a viable thing if friendly fire is turned off (element of surprise eliminated), and alliances can only be disbanded when all alliance members agree (kind of counter to the whole notion of "breaking an alliance" - disbanding and breaking are two different things).

    If you aren't a fan of uneasy alliances that can be broken at the drop of a hat without your agreement, then I'd suggest not joining one. But, once this poorly devised event (my opinion) is over, I think you will see more solid alliances - except at forts. But even forts can be solid alliances so long as there is proper negotiation. If you want a solid alliance - get to know who you're dealing with and negotiate the terms of the alliance before you head out.

  • Idea: I'm not sure I like this idea, but think it might be kind of neat. Once you break an alliance, your last known location (the exact spot you were when you broke the alliance) is still visible on the Alliance map for about a minute. It would obviously have to look a bit different on the map to differentiate it from the ships still in the Alliance, maybe a question mark. This would give betrayed crews a little bit more of a chance to get their treasure back.

  • @baldmunkee sagte in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @darwynz said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    [Mod Edit - Callouts on the forums are not allowed.]

    This behavior is wrong and is ruining the game.

    Glad a mod caught this. It's against the code. Don't follow your enemies to the forums. Keep it to the seas, dude. Kill 'em first next time.

    The Problem in this game is, you see the traitors never again.
    By the way, If you play alone. You don't kill them ;-)

  • @binaryplayerone said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    No one will flash lights, raise and lower flags and communicate like you describe. No one. It wouldn't feel natural to the game and who would know what to do?

    I disagree completely. If you think this wouldn’t feel “natural” then you and I are playing very different games. People can and do use these features in the way I described. Sea of Thieves players are creative, innovative folks. You’re not giving them enough credit. People would know what to do because they talk about it and work it out before leaving port. We have all these tools already at our disposal. If we can’t be bothered to use them, that’s on us.

  • @hydrapilot42 Just stop. Everyone knows it’s a pirate game. But we’re not really pirates. We’re all human beings playing a game together for mutual enjoyment. Yes, plot twists and betrayal can be a fun part of that game, but not if we’re doing it just to hurt other players. That’s the fine line where “playing” becomes “griefing.” Sometimes players just take things too far. Okay, betray your allies and sink them, take all the loot and sell it. But don’t disband the alliance before you do. That’s just nasty. You don’t gain anything by doing that. Sell the loot, let your fellow players share the reward for your adventures together, then disband if you want to. That way you can still be a good pirate and a good player, all at the same time.

  • My friends and I have been fairly annoyed at the players who will join an alliance or befriend us the attempt to attack us, leave the alliance, and steal all of the treasure while we get nothing but a knife in the back. This is not fun and I would like to see a change in the alliance system especially because it is a very important part of the new event. I'm not saying this is required or necessary it is just a request I would like to see. A good change would be making you unable to turn in loot for a short time after leaving an alliance.

  • @shagkul said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    The Problem in this game is, you see the traitors never again.
    By the way, If you play alone. You don't kill them ;-)

    That's not a bug, that's a feature. It's not good for you or your victims to follow them around locked in a vendetta. At least that's my opinion, and the apparent direction of the game design.

    And... yes. Yes, I do.

  • @genuine-heather said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @hydrapilot42 Just stop. Everyone knows it’s a pirate game. But we’re not really pirates. We’re all human beings playing a game together for mutual enjoyment. Yes, plot twists and betrayal can be a fun part of that game, but not if we’re doing it just to hurt other players. That’s the fine line where “playing” becomes “griefing.” Sometimes players just take things too far. Okay, betray your allies and sink them, take all the loot and sell it. But don’t disband the alliance before you do. That’s just nasty. You don’t gain anything by doing that. Sell the loot, let your fellow players share the reward for your adventures together, then disband if you want to. That way you can still be a good pirate and a good player, all at the same time.

    I am very conflicted on this, because I agree with the sentiment of "Be nice to people" and just throw someone a bone now and again. And, I would almost certainly do what you have just advocated. However...

    This is not griefing. It's a betrayal. And it could be considered mean. But it's not griefing. This has nothing to do with the pirate code and someone choosing to perform this kind of a betrayal is playing the game in just as legitimate way as you. This is the heart of this game: being more pirate may look more like Guybrush to you and more like LeChuck to me. And this game makes it all work.

  • @nightmare1647 The alliance system is just a handy way for Rare to facilitate better communication among pirates and is nothing more. It is not a safe relationship and is nothing like what the crew bond is supposed to be in this game.

    Do not trust your alliances any more than you would anyone else you have been talking with on the Sea. If you routinely trusted people with your treasure before, then go ahead. Me and my crew? If we worked with someone else on a fort, we divvied up with one eye on our 'friends' ship the whole time and never would have risked going to the same outpost as them to turn in. If you are more comfortable now, whatever comes of that is on you.

  • Since this mega thread has been created, please create a filter system so those of us who wish not to be near or a part of alliance, can join servers without this system in place. Thanks.

    This system is ruining Pvp play on servers.

  • @hawat1 said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @hydrapilot42 Not 'whining' about alliances. Just stating the fact that in its current form alliances are useless and rare might as well take them out of the game.
    Yes its a pirate game and yes betrayal is part of the game .. but it was like that before they introduced alliances.
    Alliances will only work if: Friendly fire is turned off and alliances can only be disbanded when all alliance members agree. Otherwise worth nothing.

    Disagree completely.

    Alliances work great as what they are intended to be: a way to codify and communicate your intent and coordinate with your loose alliances. That's it.

    I was super skeptical of alliances because I feared that they would be what you said: friendly fire and sticky alliances would break this game. You would have pvp-oriented 'hunter' fleets, carebear servers, part of starting out would be to go join one of the gangs when you log in, and playing as a solo sloop would almost completely cease to be an option. Rare did a great job with this minimalist feature.

  • @treefittymonsta said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    This system is ruining Pvp play on servers.

    No, it’s not. You’ve been claiming that even before the alliance system was rolled out. I’ve seen plenty of PvP in almost every session. It would be fair to say more people are working together to complete the Cursed Sails campaign. But that actually has little to do with the alliance system. After the event, things will likely return to normal.

  • I like the alliances but I think they need some fleshing out.

    First and foremost, I would change "Leave Alliance" from a flag to a majority-rule vote, like the brig. If you want to leave the alliance, your crew should also be in favor of that decision. Only then does the "Leave Alliance" flag unlock. A similar vote could also be used for offering/joining alliances.

    Second, if two ships offering alliances get within "alliance" range, they should automatically ally-up. Two "offer" flags should just be treated the same as an "offer"/"join" combination.

    I have some reservations about how the loot pays out but I don't have a feasible solution yet, so I'll circle back around once I have something to actually offer in that regard.

  • @genuine-heather said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @binaryplayerone said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    No one will flash lights, raise and lower flags and communicate like you describe. No one. It wouldn't feel natural to the game and who would know what to do?

    I disagree completely. If you think this wouldn’t feel “natural” then you and I are playing very different games. People can and do use these features in the way I described. Sea of Thieves players are creative, innovative folks. You’re not giving them enough credit. People would know what to do because they talk about it and work it out before leaving port. We have all these tools already at our disposal. If we can’t be bothered to use them, that’s on us.

    Oh I've been playing for a while and I've never seen anyone do as you describe. Sure some flash with the lantern when trying to get attention when the speaking trumpet is to far away. Not that helps much since the range on the lantern is short.

    Even if the game had the option to let a group of players on different ships join a server as a group. And that all have a spreadsheet on what all the signals means. I cant see how your system would be a good or fun addition to the game.

    So no. I dont think your idea is suited for this game at all. And as I already mention I've never seen anyone do it in my time playing this game since beta.

    My idea however fits the design of the game. And it's something that anyone would understand as it is like with the rest of the gameplay mechanics in the game just logical and intuitive. And most importantly. It opens up for fun player driven situations. Just like everything else in the game.

  • @genuine-heather said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    @treefittymonsta said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    This system is ruining Pvp play on servers.

    No, it’s not. You’ve been claiming that even before the alliance system was rolled out. I’ve seen plenty of PvP in almost every session. It would be fair to say more people are working together to complete the Cursed Sails campaign. But that actually has little to do with the alliance system. After the event, things will likely return to normal.

    I have had alot less Pvp encounters after alliance System than before the alliance System was in place. And it's not because they are doing the skelly boats. I go over there to attack people and there is no one over there as well. I blame the alliance System and the direction rare has been going with the Sea of friends bilge rat events.

  • There’s literally zero downside to being in an alliance. PvP encounters are way down.

    There needs to be a downside. Everyone in an alliance should only get 50% and only the turning in crew should get rep. Even with a flat 50% crews stand to earn more than solo but at least there’s some offset to consider.

  • I have to say that this was one of two things that should have been in from day one the only other thing i would have to ask for is swinging from the rigging at half the speed and distance of being shot from the cannons. My new favorite game love the new stats would like to see more things tracked on that list like ships sank or ran aground or nearly sunk by having all holes blown and save your ship from sinking. I hope that someone else in development team wants this stuff to so we see it in game, and if one of you do read this i got lot more ideas about this stuff i play daily.

  • @genuine-heather spot on, if you're creative with the tools to hand (and your allies pay attention) you can communicate just fine

  • I like the alliance system, I think it is good.

    PvP is better than ever, what's better than fighting one ship? If you answered "fighting more ships!" then well done, you'd be correct, as Timesplitters taught us, "always outnumbered, never outgunned!" We have had some awesome experiences at forts and during the events destroying multiple ships that came for our loot! (The event ones had it coming, yes your Athena's/Bonecrushers sails are pretty and I'm sure you worked hard for them, but some of us are after commendations so IT'S DAVY JONES FOR YOU!)

    PvE - 6 ships running Athena's is a sight to behold and the payout is ridiculous! But it is like herding kittens at times and actually the amount of pratting about involved made me twitchy around the cannons...

    Betrayal - best bit. People have pulled off a few betrayals on me, but I had it coming for trusting them. I've pulled a few betrayals myself, but they were annoying and I didn't like them very much. I've also kept true to my word a few times when I've been impressed by the other ships I've sailed with and patiently waited at an outpost to let them come cash in with us (we usually run a free for all grab what you want and sell it type affair, bigger crews get more cos there's more of them to grab stuff). I like betrayals, I think they're fun, I think it's funny when you can see your allies thinking about it, looking at their gunpowder stash or aligning their cannons and you get the drop on them, laugh a minute as they go down cursing you!

    Changes - I'd like to see the names change colour to match the pennant, I'd like to see the last known locations of allies for a while after betrayals, I'd like to see the ability to remove individual ships rather than disbanding the whole thing.

  • @personalc0ffee hadn't thought of that! Yeah now I'm against coloured names, Coffee is right, use it to your advantage and sod anyone who can't remember who's on their team!

  • @khaleesibot Just a thought about leaving alliance after the battle or even during.
    Lets say three ships are in an alliance and after the last skelly ship goes down the ship closest to it gets some good loot and takes off thinking I am not going to share the loot because I got it and its mine, dumps alliance and runs to port and finds out oh crud.
    Why did I only get 50 percent of the loots worth when I turned it in....?
    It was because of the time penalty for breaking the alliance.
    You break alliance and then you only get 50 percent of the loot you cash in for a time...15, 20, 30, minutes?

  • I want to add a system to communicate with allied crews across the map for co-ordination, assistance, for status checks etc.

    I know many wants to keep mutinous communications a secret, but the way my suggestion works is like a telephone line. You can't hear the other crew unless they let you hear them (this goes both ways). Perhaps talking while interacting with a whispering skull in the map room or simply zooming all the way in on an allied ship on the world map, would enable your crew to talk to them.

  • What about a vote system to disband an alliance, similar to Brig/Scuttle. Ship wanting to leave an alliance would need votes from other ships.

  • Blue gamertags for alliance members would be nice as I think others stated. Maybe a light blue. Leave friendly fire how it is with alliance members. Things can get hectic and it would be good to clearly see who is in your alliance.

    I think alliances could mesh very well with a bounty system if one is ever implemented. Maybe with them, you can also increase ship count per server.

  • @kzoo-kid said in [Mega Thread] Alliances:

    The biggest case of abuse I see at the moment is setting a whole server to alliance and grinding out athena voyages. You can feasibly get 2-3x athena reputation from doing this. I don't have anything against speeding up progression to help new players "catch up", but I think it is important to maintain the integrity of hard-to-reach goals. If not for the reward of exclusivity, I think it is important to be able to gauge the relative skill of other players.

    At first, anyone with PL was generally pretty good at the game. Now, many players have reached PL status without having a firm grasp on the game. I don't want to have to micromanage everything on the ship, but if I don't have any way of knowing roughly how much a player should know, I feel pressured to micromanage or risk sinking/wasting time due to silly mistakes.

    I agree, it would be better to only share gold within the alliance and not progress when it comes to xp or something.

  • @khaleesibot I do think the sharing of rewards should scale with amount of ships in the alliance. More ships means less money for everybody. Maybe this would help a little bit with the server abuse where people just stay on the server farming easy loots.

  • No colored names for alliances, please - limits treachery. Learn who is in your alliance. Given the rewards, maintaining a healthy alliance should be difficult. Also, no penalties. There is currently little reason to break an alliance (though, yes, some people are willing to cut off their nose to spite their face), so the easier it is to break, the better.

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