[Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5

  • @wesk89 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @sorenthaz sagte in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Meanwhile though, those who enjoy the content can't just focus on voyages and cooperation. They're stuck dealing with others who decide to force their gameplay preferences down their throats and there's nothing they can do to avoid it unless they want to waste time and basically give the PvPers exactly what they want.

    It's basically lose-lose for anyone that doesn't want to deal with the constant threat of PvP.

    No. They can just flee. Seriously, you're making it up as if players who only do voyages (I'm one of those 95 percent of the time btw.) have no choice but to face the other players.
    I had some nice fights before but when I saw that my buddy and I had no choice we just turned our ship around and fled.
    Other times when we have no bounty on the ship because we hadn't reached our destination yet, we hunt them down even if they're in a galleon and we're in a slope.
    It's fun. We still got shot to hell though.

    There is still enough room on the map to actively avoid other players.

    Fleeing just follows:

    there's nothing they can do to avoid it unless they want to waste time and basically give the PvPers exactly what they want.

    The problem with fleeing is that some people enjoy that thrill of the chase/hunt and actually prefer if people try to outrun them. Ultimately it boils down to a waste of time for the person fleeing; they could spend like 15 minutes doing a voyage and getting a chest or w/e and then 30+ minutes trying to safely get it to a port... Better off just scuttling the ship, hopping servers, and starting over hoping that there's better luck next time, because that 'wasted' time on your end doesn't feel wasted on theirs if they're enjoying the chase.

  • I honestly don’t care the developers said no. As the daily users dwindle I rather be the squeaky wheel. I rather them know another person is looking for more.

    Opinions change that’s the beauty of it. So right now they don’t want to do PVE. What about 6 months from now? A year?

    A majority of my friends who were daily players no longer play. They too feel similarly.

  • There are three changes that i would love to see in the combat system

      1. Skeletons are gods with cannons.
        Now this is the one thing I am not a fan of,
        when I pull up on an island or fort i get destroyed with cannonballs, i mean I get there is a challenge to the raids and i respect that, but i get smacked with five for six at a time with a 90% accuracy, its not all that bad but with enemy ships at the same time and if youre tryna be the backbone of your crew its just a huge project
    • 2.skeletons all spawn with weapons
      Maybe im just going about it wrong but fighting a whole team of skeletons with pistols is extremly hard, the accuracy of them is just insane, i cant escape these scallywags, especially if youre alone tryna earn some gold with order of souls
      1. The skeletons still dont spawn at times
        There will still be times where i will be on a order of souls or fort and the skeletons wont spawn. The skeletons are there at first but if everyone in party wipes then they despawn, its an easy fix but nothing is worse than pulling up up to a fort and get bombarded by these sure shots , recover, just to go back out and have to respawn them and get smacked up again after yu took out the towers

    Overall though I love the game as a whole and i cant get enough of it, this game is a great foundation and im loving the direction it is going, keep it up

  • @sorenthaz sagte in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @wesk89 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @sorenthaz sagte in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Meanwhile though, those who enjoy the content can't just focus on voyages and cooperation. They're stuck dealing with others who decide to force their gameplay preferences down their throats and there's nothing they can do to avoid it unless they want to waste time and basically give the PvPers exactly what they want.

    It's basically lose-lose for anyone that doesn't want to deal with the constant threat of PvP.

    No. They can just flee. Seriously, you're making it up as if players who only do voyages (I'm one of those 95 percent of the time btw.) have no choice but to face the other players.
    I had some nice fights before but when I saw that my buddy and I had no choice we just turned our ship around and fled.
    Other times when we have no bounty on the ship because we hadn't reached our destination yet, we hunt them down even if they're in a galleon and we're in a slope.
    It's fun. We still got shot to hell though.

    There is still enough room on the map to actively avoid other players.

    Fleeing just follows:

    there's nothing they can do to avoid it unless they want to waste time and basically give the PvPers exactly what they want.

    The problem with fleeing is that some people enjoy that thrill of the chase/hunt and actually prefer if people try to outrun them. Ultimately it boils down to a waste of time for the person fleeing; they could spend like 15 minutes doing a voyage and getting a chest or w/e and then 30+ minutes trying to safely get it to a port... Better off just scuttling the ship, hopping servers, and starting over hoping that there's better luck next time, because that 'wasted' time on your end doesn't feel wasted on theirs if they're enjoying the chase.

    Okay, that's true. Didn't think of that.
    Everyone who pursued us just loses interest after a while.
    But I don't play Sea of Thieves every day, I play it about once a week when my buddy comes over.

  • @navarita sagte in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Yes Rare, don't implement such much requested feature by a large percentage of the players interested in the game because @wesk89 himself doesn't need it and his experience is universal and the Truth there is.

    Running away from players IS having to deal with forced PvP. I just want to be left the f in peace, not have to be constantly paranoid and stressed.

    Yes! :)
    It just doesn't fit the game to have a PvE mode. It's a [Mod Edit - Profanity] pirate game.
    That's like having a point'n'click-adventure that solves all puzzles for you. Doesn't fit.

    But okay, they can implement a PvE mode if they deem it necessary. Cutting away half of the gameplay.

  • So this may be touchy as some hardcore console players might immediately jump to arms when keyboard and mouse support are brought up, but bare with me on this. There have been MANY times where ive gotten into a firefight with someone on pc using m/k (i only know because i can hear those lovely cherry mx's clicking away) and i have gotten blown away due to the rapid turning and weapon switching that they are alotted using a m/k. Not to say by any means im great at pvp in the first place, but maybe we could level the playing field there by bringing support for it to xbox players as well?

    I tried plugging in my old mouse and keyboard and noticed some functionality for the keyboard was there (though a bit wonky as i had to hold shift while using WASD in order to walk) but nothing on my mouse.

    For those that think it would be broadening the unfair advantage to more people, in all reality why not expand said advantage to the console players out there? I mean to be completely fair you can buy an effective and efficient mouse keyboard combo for around $20 depending on where you live and what stores you have around you, so its not necessarily an expensive change to make.. Just a random 4am thought i suppose :)

  • @navarita said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Yes Rare, don't implement such much requested feature by a large percentage of the players interested in the game because @wesk89 himself doesn't need it and his experience is universal and the Truth there is.

    Running away from players IS having to deal with forced PvP. I just want to be left in peace, not have to be constantly paranoid and stressed.

    Exactly!

  • @wesk89 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    But okay, they can implement a PvE mode if they deem it necessary. Cutting away half of the gameplay.

    And if they do, you don't have to play that way if you don't want to. People just want the option to play how they want. It doesn't hurt anyone. It doesn't take away from anyone else's experience.

  • @nobanob said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    I honestly don’t care the developers said no. As the daily users dwindle I rather be the squeaky wheel. I rather them know another person is looking for more.

    Opinions change that’s the beauty of it. So right now they don’t want to do PVE. What about 6 months from now? A year?

    A majority of my friends who were daily players no longer play. They too feel similarly.

    Their tune will change as more games get released this year and more players go to better games.

  • @Wesk89

    Monkey Island, AC: Black Flag, Sid Meier's Pirates, Rizen, Age of Booty, Lego pirates of the Caribbean etc all lack PvP. By your definition they are not pirate games as it doesn't have PvP.

    Clearly sailing on a wooden vessel to hunt skeletons and dig up treasure isn't a pirate game unless it's got PvP. You know, because there is absolutely no conceivable way that a game can be themed and fit a genre.

    Do you see why PvP doesn't make it pirate? It adds another component to the game. It doesn't make it a pirate game. That or I'll just go be a pirate in call of duty by your definition.

    I think you should be forced to choose an irreversible server type. You sign up for PVE or PvP. I am assuming a big concern of yours is players farming gold in PVE servers and switching to PvP later. This would lower the loot on others vessels. Making it less worth PvP players going on the hunt. I don't think that is fair as it removes some of your fun. I get why you'd be concerned with that being a potential.

    I am okay with permanently being in a PVE server. I don't mind not being able to switch. Just like WoW you'll have people choosing both server types.

    But as of right now PvP is driving players to other games. So whether you lose me as a target due to my being on a PVE server or a different game, doesn't change the fact you still lost me as prey.

    All we are asking for is the ability to enjoy a cooperative experience.

  • @PikAvenger

    State of Decay launched 2 days ago. While buggy (sadly, which game isn't as launch these days) I'm playing that, even though to be honest. Right now I'd rather be a pirate. I'd rather finish unlocking legendary content.

    But I'm having an enjoyable relaxing experience playing it with friends. So I choose to play it as I enjoy the lack of stress far more.

    I hope we are right. I hope they lose every PVE preferred player until they realize they've made a huge mistake.

    I have hope for RARE, I respect how much they communicate to their fans. I hope they are reading this and I hope they listen to us.

  • @arcticharmony70 That's why I said they can include it. I don't care anymore at this point. Because trying to explain to people WHY there is no PvE is in vain.

    I understand that people want a PvE. I do.
    I just think that people need to understand why there is no PvE (yet).

    But whatever.

    @Nobanob
    I think the only game on that list that has multiplayer is Age of Booty, right?
    LEGO Pirates of the Carribbean is a puzzle adventure game. And yeah, it has PVP. You can attack the other player. :p

    I am not concerned about people making gold in PvE and bringing it over to PvP because I don't care what other players have equipped or how there ship looks.

    But as I said, they can include PvE for all I care. I guess it's my lack of knowledge speaking because I haven't played the game nearly as much as others have. For that I am sorry. Making statements without knowing much about the PvP experience is not really clever...

  • @nwo-azcrack said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @kiethblacklion
    Ita very frustrating because it varys so much. Sometimes i can spawn instantly, and sometimes i have to close the game because it wont load me back in at all.

    I rarely win in ship to ship combat, but I can accept that. It's frustrating but if I can't avoid it, I at least try not to make it easy on them enemy. I love drawn out ship battles. I had a two person sloop chase my crew and I, who were on a galleon, for about 20 minutes. We ended up losing because they were more skilled and because a second sloop decided to join the fight.

    But even though we lost, it was fun and exciting. The choice of tactics this game gives is incredible. However, the entire thrill of the battle is lost once the enemy can get a spawn kill setup established. Then it becomes frustrating. I'd rather lose from a real battle then be forced into scuttling my ship because I'm in a position of not being allowed to fight back.

    However, I do feel like there could be something that Rare could do to give the dead player and chance to retake their ship before the enemy sinks it or takes the treasure.

    Perhaps a choice of spawn points on the ship? When you're on the ferry, you can pick whether to spawn in the captain's quarters, at the wheel, on the crow's nest, below deck, something. Give the respawning player a bit of a tactical choice on where to reappear.

  • So I guess now they're adding a flags, but purely cosmetic it seems. Cool. Can't wait for players being killed by other players wearing friendly flags, because you know, there's no punishment or system for it, and in fact this kind of behavior is actually encouraged by Rare. #BeMorePirate

    How many changes trying to amend the kill on sight problem of this game will we have to go through until the finally let us opt out of PvP, like so many other games with "revolutionary" open shared worlds (that tried to keep it all together and failed dismally) have?

  • @kiethblacklion
    Hey thats a good idea mate

  • @navarita

    I really don't care which flag people are flying. They can get the H-E-Double Hockey Stick away from me.

    Unless unfriendly pirates are forced to fly a pirate flag they are nothing but garnish on the top to me

  • Could we get some Sea crabs?
    They were even the Hungering Deep teaser trailer.
    Thanks!

  • I had an experience yesterday that bothered me and drove home the problems with unlimited PVP. I logged in with an hour or 2 to burn, solo sloop. About 10 minutes in I saw another ship in the distance. He was between me and my destination so I was sailing right at it. The ship scuttled before I even got close.

    I thought that they may have just been leaving anyway but about 30 minutes later I saw another ship in my path. I just continued in my straight line but sure enough, they scuttled too.

    I'm not sure if they were the same people or two different ones. Not sure if there was a highly toxic sloop in the instance I was in that had been harassing them.

    What I do know is that their interactions with other players were so unenjoyable to them that they scuttled rather than hope for a more positive encounter. Not good.

  • @chitown-bear said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    What I do know is that their interactions with other players were so unenjoyable to them that they scuttled rather than hope for a more positive encounter. Not good.

    How do you know this? Why didn't you scuttle your ship if that's how you feel?

    You basically stated...
    You don't know why the first ship scuttled
    You don't know why the second ship scuttled
    You don't know if they were the same ship
    You don't know if there is an aggressor in the area

    Based on all the things you don't know... how did you come to know anything at all?

    I think you don't understand that speech mannerism. You're supposed to end with, "But what I do know is this indisputable fact", the usual implication that it's useful to attempt to figure out what you want to know.. the previously stated unknowns... Not blurting out a conclusion to a bunch of hypothetical conditions you declared you weren't sure of.

  • @rcsnipes100 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Couple questions/observations of some challenges related to the "socialization" aspect of the game.
    Clearly, it is a pirate game and you want people to be their own type of pirate. So thieving is obviously part of it.
    You also want people to socialize and band together to fight foes larger than a single ship can handle. Great goal, but the socialization aspect is having a rough time getting off the ground. And a lot of that has to do with the inherent conflict with the main premise. So I am confused as to Rare's original expectation of how the social part of the game was to originate. And there are several possibilities:

    1. You could play with friends, which really only works when playing on the same ship, but there is currently no way for friends to join the same server but on different ships (no way that I am aware).
    2. You could meet people in-game and build up alliances.
    3. You could utilize the Xbox Apps to find like minded players that you can team up with. But again, I am not sure how you do that outside of being on the same ship.

    So #2 does not seem possible from my experiences. When sailing around it is very important to keep an eye on the horizon at all times and watch for other ships. But in order to truly socialize you need to risk approaching any ship in the distance and hope they simply do not attack you for the fun of it, attack you for your loot, or attack you because they are afraid of being attacked first.
    So the only way to try and avoid that is to utilize some type of signaling, either through a system of flags or possibly lantern colors or a combination of both. I have floated a few ideas out in the forums and people seem fairly certain they do NOT want any flag system that is automatically set as a result of the kill metrics by the individuals that make up the crew. I fully understand the issues with such a concept and also understand that it could be pretty complex to implement. However, if you can only depend upon the truthfulness of other plays to set their lanterns or flags appropriately then I cannot see how this could possibly work since the PvP focused players would simply set their flags to attract other ships so they can attack them. So you are back to being unable to trust any type of communication system.
    At this stage, the only way to be fairly confident that someone else is friendly is to witness mutual avoidance. If you see other ships and you know they see you and you both avoid running into each others paths, then you can assume they are friendly. Unfortunately, the minute you go to approach them, they must make the assumption that you are coming to attack them so they either attack you or scuttle immediately, so no socialization happening there. It is a bizarre dilemma.
    So my question to any Rare person, is what was the original expectation of how pirates would socialize and meet each other. Is the current level of "socialization" what you expected it to be? If not, what are you planning to do to address it.
    And for the record. I like the game and I have fun playing it with friends and family. But I honestly have no concept of how I can create connections inside or outside of the game and then meet up with the folks in-game on other ships within a single server.
    I would be interested to know what other players have found has worked for them to address these issues, or not.
    I like the PvE portion of the game but I also like the tension of the PvP portion even though me and my friends and family are terrible at it. But we are slowly getting better.
    I am just completely clueless on how best to try and socialize with other crews. So at this stage we no longer try.

    Well. My daughter INSISTS on "making friends". We sloop together, and sloops are very manueverable. I am very good at maneuvering and anticipating enemy actions and trajectory/pathing. You get a feel for how far their wheel is turned, etc based on their movements and I chase them relentlessly, avoiding their broadside while she talks to them. Worked every time so far.

    Without her though I use those skills for ship tipping. Good luck.

  • @nobanob said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    I honestly don’t care the developers said no. As the daily users dwindle I rather be the squeaky wheel. I rather them know another person is looking for more.

    Opinions change that’s the beauty of it. So right now they don’t want to do PVE. What about 6 months from now? A year?

    A majority of my friends who were daily players no longer play. They too feel similarly.

    The game basically dies if substantial PvE content isn't added. Even if PvP is going to remain on top of everything, they need to give PvE lures out to the 'sheep' so folks have a reason to subject themselves to the risk of running into the 'wolves', aka those who chase after ships and attack them.

    We also really do need NPC ships that we can attack, be attacked by, and get loot from. Let them be skeleton ships that stick out like sore thumbs or ghost ships or hostile mermaid vessels that could very well just be giant fish with some stuff on their backs. Things like that would encourage folks to be more adventurous and also get some piratey ship combat experiences.

    @wesk89 said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @navarita sagte in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    Yes Rare, don't implement such much requested feature by a large percentage of the players interested in the game because @wesk89 himself doesn't need it and his experience is universal and the Truth there is.

    Running away from players IS having to deal with forced PvP. I just want to be left the f in peace, not have to be constantly paranoid and stressed.

    Yes! :)
    It just doesn't fit the game to have a PvE mode. It's a g******n pirate game.
    That's like having a point'n'click-adventure that solves all puzzles for you. Doesn't fit.

    But okay, they can implement a PvE mode if they deem it necessary. Cutting away half of the gameplay.

    Don't kid yourself, PvP isn't even half of the gameplay. It's just a single bare bones feature thrown in with a bunch of other features and gameplay options. If you really want to boil it down, it's one of (currently) six activities: treasure hunts (GH), skeleton bounties (OoS), merchant deliveries (MA), skeleton fortresses, and plundering sunken ships are the other main activities currently in the game.

    The whole 'it's a pirate game' argument is so shallow at this point as there is so much more to being a pirate and history backs that up. Not to mention, this game is labeled as a 'shared world adventure game'.

    If this game were to get a PvE option or ability to gain PvP protection once some more meat is added to the PvE content, this game would see a significant spike in activity. And guess what? Folks will still PvP, and those who mostly prefer PvE might dip into PvP once in awhile as well. It's pretty much a win-win and those who only want to PvP wouldn't notice much, if any difference.

    Again, you don't have to partake in it if you don't want to, but those who wish to can. Cool how that works, right? You can be happy doing your thing, others can be happy doing theirs.

  • Im fairly certain that with the introduction of Weekly Events and "Campaign" driven content updates as stated in the dev. blogs, the PvE crowd will be pleased. However, for now, as part of a crew that is more driven to the exploration and lore discoveries of SoT, weve never really had an issue with unwanted PVP and we play ALOT.

    Does PVP happen? absolutely
    Does it happen at bad times/good times? For sure

    The way its setup is working great imho, and for the most part, is fairly easy to avoid in my experience. The best advice i could give is to keep your ship stocked and keey those eyeglasses on the horizon, if you want PVP, youll get it. If you dont want it, most of the time, its avoidable with proper sailing and being prepared. Good luck out there scallywags , 'cause pirates gonna pirate!

  • @darkjedirebel The guy below you is right, nobody PvPs in this game. And really you shouldn't have any trouble with other players if you've been playing since beta. My only advice is to find people to play with who are good at the game, because 95% of players are pretty bad at the game, there's a pretty low chance you'll find skilled randoms because most of the good players already have a somewhat concrete crew.

  • Having a PvE server will not affect how the PvP players wish to play as they will play each other. A PvE server will have more players for the game who simply wish to explore and enjoy the game at their own pace. Splitting the player base is not true as they will already be split down to people who will not play due to PvP and players who enjoy PvP.

    People complaining that it will ruin to game experience and the way the game is designed need to learn how game design works. Seperating player's into these catergories of PvE and PvP will only improve the community, and possibly add more people who do not currently play due to no PvE.

  • Ok I don't really get the premise of this topic...

    Exploration really isn't a thing to do in this game. There's not much to discover or explore? There's no questlines or voyages that reward proper exploring. No framework for exploration. There's cute little easter eggs here and there and a little bit of lore on some of the islands but like take lore books for example? Two lines that lead to a generic treasure map. That's a missed opportunity. I don't call finding loot in predetermined spots on each island "exploration" even if they buffed it, which they did, and it broke the game.

    As far as the people requesting PVE and PVP be split I guarantee the vast majority of players here would change their tune if they won in PVP more often. And why are so many people complaining about getting PVP'ed? I hop in random MM constantly, I stay on servers for hours, I also do hardcore hopping for forts/pvp and in the vast majority of instances most people leave you alone for hours. Occasionally you get a hyperactive instance but it's not common at all. And the people that do attack you are usually pretty bad and can be repelled very easily. So I don't get these cries for PVE servers, you already pretty much have them. PVP is anything but consistent and even lately at forts it's been c****y, I've done probably 30 forts in the last 5-6 days and they've been mostly contested by sloops.

    I also find Xbox players make excuses for their genuine disadvantage in boarding combat to spread it to every aspect of the game. You can do tactics just as well, you can have map and ship awareness just as well, you can resupply your boat just as well, you can use cannons pretty much just as well and accurately as PC, you can steer the ship just as well, you can protect and stop boarders from boarding you just as well, you can turn the sails just as well and no not every PC player is hacking.

    Without PVP this game has nothing. It has really boring, shallow PVE. It'd be one thing if this game had great PVE fully fleshed out, but there's nothing there. A PVE only server would ruin the core of the game as it's been designed. They'd literally have to redesign the game and flesh out the PVE. I mean a PVE server would literally have no use for the vast majority of current ship design. What's going to make use of your cannons? Why would you have to repair your ship? Sailing around you'd be entirely safe. They'd have to design AI boats to attack you. There'd literally be no pirate game if it was PVE only.

  • I'm yet another throwing my hat in with a PVE preference.
    I like the idea of a PVE only server, but its a shame there isn't more to do, and that there can't be some kind of ship bound AI element to try and keep things together and achieve some sort of balance, even if its just more skellies crewing the damn things.... hell it can be the British Navy for all I care as long as it gives people something else to attack to leave the rest of us in peace.

    I started playing when the game came onto the Gamepass, along with a fair few friends and three of my Sons. Its now got to the point where myself and my oldest son struggle to get a third friend to sail a galleon with and spend most of our time on a sloop as pretty much all of them have got fed up and moved on to other games. Then to add insult to injury, yesterday my last remaining Pirate Son also announced that he'd had enough and was not going to bother any more.
    The reason? We were rammed and boarded while trying to do a shipwreck, and then were consistently spawn killed while trying to get back in for a fight ...lets be honest, its not really much of a fight to begin with when that happens, not to mention really irritating when you spawn just long enough to get killed again...yeah I know, boohoo play better etc etc.
    Why did this happen? Simple, we took our eye of the ball and both dived the wreck (Big mistake ) because we're bored as hell with one of us always having to stay on the boat keeping watch, pretty much ready to run at a moments notice as soon as we spot another ship, as 9 times out of 10 ships we've spotted have been griefers.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't mind PVP and we've had some good battles some friendly, some not so much, we've won a good fair few, and have had our butts kicked as well, which is part and parcel, but now we're getting attacked so often we can't really enjoy the PVE element, due to being on constant guard of forced PVP, and as a result i'm now the only surviving player from our group....and judging by what we've seen when we've played recently, my friends are not alone in thinking this way as there seems to be a distinct lack of the more friendly and helpful players we saw not long ago.
    I think when the hungering deep is released I might be able to get a couple back for a day, but i'm holding no hope of them staying. If i'm honest i'm feeling the same way now and already play it a lot less that I used to.

    I know there is no way i'd purchase the game if it ever leaves the gamepass, not it its current form anyway and if things stay as they are and PVP continues to rule the day, there is a good chance i'll follow the rest of my comrades and hang up my cutlass for good.

  • @knavishcloth01

    So don’t wait until the end to turn in loot, nothing wrong with getting a few chest then turning them in and continuing.

  • @mrbrocksego

    This semi safe zone I think is the key to balancing pve vs pvp. PvP still works in the safe zone, but it has consequences. I’m thinking 1 central outpost that has a sheltered harbor. (Like smugglers bay or crescent isle) but with NPC cannon in-placements, they only fire on those that shoot within their zone. Have some wandering guards that do the same maybe for the individual pvp. This is not without historical context so I think we can make it fit. (Collision causing damage should be seen as hostil as well to prevent someone coming in full bore and ramming. )

    I’d also make it someplace we’re you don’t start at when you spawn, make it someplace you have to get to, so it’s intentional and doesn’t provide a starting advantage. (Maybe a respawn point after your crew/ship have been killed/sank numerous times)

    This still provides pve players to meet up with less apprehension about another crew being friendly, yet maybe a coordinated fleet of pvp players could still fight there way past the defenses and take everything (if someone can coordinate that many pvp players without them turning on each other then they should have a reward for it)

    Who knows, maybe it’s populated by all “friendly” skeleton NPC’s? That’s something for rare to work out.

  • @eatdamuffin saying that PvP is the only thing in the game is your opinion. Other people enjoy the exploration. People who will play PvE will not affect your game as they will, and, are choosing not to play. Objecting to PvE is only affecting those who wish to play in that style.

  • @ordainedarron said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @eatdamuffin saying that PvP is the only thing in the game is your opinion. Other people enjoy the exploration. People who will play PvE will not affect your game as they will, and, are choosing not to play. Objecting to PvE is only affecting those who wish to play in that style.

    I already outlined why exploration isn't really a thing in this game. But there is PvE, I also think I supported my point pretty well about why the game would need a massive core redesign to support PvE servers. And sometimes getting what you think you want isn't always the same.

  • @ordainedarron I think you're right in that a lot of people are choosing not to play because PVP is not their thing, I can personally attest to that.
    What is worrying though, is that sooner or later it may reach the point there will be nobody bothering to do any of the missions and PVP will be all that's left.
    If that was ever to happen even PVP would suffer as nobody would be carrying anything to plunder unless they've hit a fort, so aside from the Kraken and the Megladon, it will just be about picking fights with each other which would get old really quickly for even more people.

  • @angelus-warlock I agree that it could completely ruin the game if the PvP players are just attacking each other but that means that they are there to try and plunder other players which isn't right for those just starting out or those friendly players. Thus we need a PvE server. The game itself is great but barebones. It needs more to do such as better questing options. Also an NPC system of ships would work well in both a PvP and PvE server. They could appear at certain points in the map and certain territories could be more difficult. Then there could be safe zones that these NPCs cannot travel into. This could also work for PvP players to plunder the AI ships and then other players could plunder them. At the moment I think the initial issue is just creating a PvE server to stop players leaving.

  • @eatdamuffin said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @ordainedarron said in [Mega Thread] Balancing Exploration and Player Combat - Part 5:

    @eatdamuffin saying that PvP is the only thing in the game is your opinion. Other people enjoy the exploration. People who will play PvE will not affect your game as they will, and, are choosing not to play. Objecting to PvE is only affecting those who wish to play in that style.

    I already outlined why exploration isn't really a thing in this game. But there is PvE, I also think I supported my point pretty well about why the game would need a massive core redesign to support PvE servers. And sometimes getting what you think you want isn't always the same.

    Again that is your opinion. Many players love going from island to island and seeing subtle details or just even collecting and selling chests. Also it wouldn't require a massive game redesign as one of their updates included private against public ships. Apart from adding the servers the alteration would be pretty similar. Also what you think isn't what everyone else thinks.

  • @ordainedarron
    And that is exactly what most of us dont want. We dont want the devs spending time trying to make a pve server. Or spend the time to make more things to do in a pve only server. They dont want us seperate. All they have to do is keep the content comming and the pvp pve balance will be fine. Ppl are just bored right now.
    Everyone keeps saying if they make a pve server it wont hurt anyone. But thats not true. The time and money they would use on it would be better spent on the product they sold us. The PVEVP game. No segregation

  • @nwo-azcrack you have skipped the point entirely. The point is that people are fed up with the way the PvP works and if it continues the way it is people will stop playing. People stop playing. Devs lose money. Devs lose money, game doesnt get as many updates. Sequels get cancelled. And so on... this is the issue a lot of PvP players don't understand.

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