[Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4

  • @jmftgtav said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    I have given up on the argument for optional cross play it has become abundantly clear Microsoft is taking a hard line on it.

    The most obvious solution to the imbalance between PC and console is to eliminate keyboard and mouse support for the games ... PC players can use Xbox controller but console players have no good option for keyboard & mouse control.

    So developers of cross platform games make this happen and balance the playing field.

    https://i.imgur.com/AZwRmEi.jpg

  • @fishst1ck I feel for the ppl with low end PCs, but unfortunately that was their choice. Other ppl chose to spend on a TV, xbox and controller, and shouldn't be forced into unfair combat. Also, you are still confusing input devices with skill and ability. An individual is skilled at maths before you give him a calculation,, youre just asking one to show calculations on a excel spreadsheet, while forcing the other to use crayons. Does that make sense. Furthermore, the 'balanced playing field' is not a myth, that field is a place of physics, tools and objects, its just that some playes are being allowed to interact more fluidly with that environment. THAT is what unbalances it. BTW im glad you can choose to play on a controller, i dont have the option to choose.

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  • I'm just here because I've seen a lot of hate for cross play on the forums lately
    I am the only PC player in my group of friends
    Taking away cross play means I can't play with my friends any more
    I definitely never want that
    I really hope that the extremely vocal minority do not manage to sway a decision over this cool innovation that allows different players from different platforms to play and interact with each other

  • @thewolfman321 I am on Xbox and I made friends with a guy that I was painting his house, anyway we got talking and it turns out he is playing sea of thieves. Now he played on Xbox originally but jumped onto his pc when his new graphics card arrived, hot keys! Being able to turn much faster and aiming with a mouse is instant. Pc have a good enough advantage that I would like the option to play against console only. I’m shocked at anyone that says a pc, with decent keyboard and mouse 🐭 isn’t an advantage? An average pc player has advantage over a really good Xbox player . Facts

  • i suppose ill weigh in here. IF there came an option to turn cross play on or off, far more than half the xbox side would turn it off, and wether or not it is intentional, the community would split drastically. I believe its fine the way it is...theres a big emphasis on meeting and interacting with other players in this game beyond pvp and there are these forums available to make friends on PC side if youre on xbox. Theyve just relased a patch to add sensitivity to all weapons that xbox now has access to as well. No disrespect to the Xbox side but i feel the issue is with groups of players who refuse to flex and meet PC players or fine tune their pads with the new options. We have a regular on our crew that swears by the controller even though shes on PC, and id be more than happy to welcome xbox players to our crew as well! Get out there and meet some new faces and forge cross-play friendships :) we should all be grateful that we get crossplay on such a vast title because ALOT of games that should have it these days dont, and never will.

  • @uhndeth said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    I'm just here because I've seen a lot of hate for cross play on the forums lately
    I am the only PC player in my group of friends
    Taking away cross play means I can't play with my friends any more
    I definitely never want that
    I really hope that the extremely vocal minority do not manage to sway a decision over this cool innovation that allows different players from different platforms to play and interact with each other

    Optional crossplay would mean you can still play with your friends, regardless of platform..If its only a 'vocal minority' , their absence will not effect you, true?

  • @pomalotacusmk3 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    @fishst1ck I feel for the ppl with low end PCs, but unfortunately that was their choice. Other ppl chose to spend on a TV, xbox and controller, and shouldn't be forced into unfair combat. Also, you are still confusing input devices with skill and ability. An individual is skilled at maths before you give him a calculation,, youre just asking one to show calculations on a excel spreadsheet, while forcing the other to use crayons. Does that make sense. Furthermore, the 'balanced playing field' is not a myth, that field is a place of physics, tools and objects, its just that some playes are being allowed to interact more fluidly with that environment. THAT is what unbalances it. BTW im glad you can choose to play on a controller, i dont have the option to choose.

    Did you just assume I was on PC because I'm against optional cross play? I play on Xbox 80% of the time. When I'm on PC I only play with kb/mouse if I'm too lazy to grab the controller.

    The assumption alone is one reason I'm against optional crossplay because a lot of players assume they got killed by a pc player, assume the other person is cheating or assume that pc players automatically are better because they can use kb/m. These assumptions alone will make a lot of people cut themselves off from ever interacting with pc players again if they had the choice.

    This topic also brings out numbers and as you do analogies that are unfounded or unrealistic. Yes you can have an accuracy advantage if you use kb/m but it's definitely not a guaranteed win. People are throwing out numbers and present them as facts, when only Rare has the facts. I'm just claiming that the advantage you have in the game with this kind of game play isn't as big as you or others in this thread are portraying it.

    I think some people have spent too much time on server hopping for forts as they might have forgotten that there is more to this game and it isn't a competitive shooter. Hopefully more content will remove the focus from only one aspect of the game and this discussion will die down.

    Let's just agree to disagree on this point as I don't feel like typing on my phone anymore but you can assume I'm typing on PC though if you think that would help you get your point across easier :)

  • @uhndeth they just want the option. Understand?

  • @uhndeth said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    I'm just here because I've seen a lot of hate for cross play on the forums lately
    I am the only PC player in my group of friends
    Taking away cross play means I can't play with my friends any more
    I definitely never want that
    I really hope that the extremely vocal minority do not manage to sway a decision over this cool innovation that allows different players from different platforms to play and interact with each other

    We want crossplay to be optional so that you can still play with your xbox buddies while I can play only against other xbox players when I'm on a solo sloop. Its a compromise and a fair solution. No one is talking about removing crossplay.

  • @fishst1ck I never assumed you were on PC, you said you were a couple posts ago. I try to avoid random numbers and statistics, if they cant be proven they tend to hurt a discussion. If someone else throws around random numbers, thats their issue, but please dont imply that i am one of them, just like im not here talking about cheating(btw i believe cheating from either platform negatively affects ALL players, and isnt really relevantto the crossplay discussion) The analogies are there in case anyone didnt understand the text preceding the analogies.
    My first post(page 11 i think) goes into alot of detail, including numerous disadvantages not all of which are kb/m related.Ithink it clearly highlights the differences between the platforms, and i dont thikn its unfair to ask that these differences be fixed. Thoughts?
    edit: i just re-read the post where you said i assume you are on PC, did you read it ? I cant see the bit where i assume .

  • @banana-bandlt said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    i suppose ill weigh in here. IF there came an option to turn cross play on or off, far more than half the xbox side would turn it off, and wether or not it is intentional, the community would split drastically. I believe its fine the way it is...theres a big emphasis on meeting and interacting with other players in this game beyond pvp and there are these forums available to make friends on PC side if youre on xbox. Theyve just relased a patch to add sensitivity to all weapons that xbox now has access to as well. No disrespect to the Xbox side but i feel the issue is with groups of players who refuse to flex and meet PC players or fine tune their pads with the new options. We have a regular on our crew that swears by the controller even though shes on PC, and id be more than happy to welcome xbox players to our crew as well! Get out there and meet some new faces and forge cross-play friendships :) we should all be grateful that we get crossplay on such a vast title because ALOT of games that should have it these days dont, and never will.

    I'm not grateful for crossplay when its shoved down my throat. Why should I suddenly accept playing disadvantaged when I never had to do it in all those years as a console gamer? I don't accept this and I refuse to touch the game as long as crossplay remains mandatory. Implementing additional sensitivity options are nice and cute but you will never close the gap between m/kb vs controller. Its simply not possible.

  • Why don’t Microsoft just enable mouse and keyboard support for the Xbox? I know it’s possible and it can be done with ease surly it’s a better idea than having these discussions about cross compatible games. Give them the option to opt out of crossplay why is it such an issue? They will still play the game it will still continue to grow without the option you are loosing players.

  • Here we go, i almost forgot about this
    Some timings that Trophy Unlocked took & posted in one of the previous crossplay threads, thanks m8!

    ***Test results were taking while playing solo unless otherwise noted

    Data taken from 1st generation xbox one:

    Full Turn (360 degrees) (default sensitivity 5)
    Average Time to Turn = 2.432 seconds

    Full Turn (360 degrees) (Max sensitivity 10)
    Average Time to Turn = 1.193 seconds

    1/2 Turn (180 degrees) (default sensitivity 5)
    Average Time to Turn = 1.251 seconds

    1/2 Turn (180 degrees) (Max sensitivity 10)
    Average Time to Turn = 0.751 seconds

    *Death Respawn times (from Death animation, until i can move again in the real world.)

    Death while docked at an outpost:
    Average Full Respawn time = 1 minute 18.5 seconds

    Death while sailing at sea:
    Average Full Respawn time = 48.75 seconds

    Data taken from my "uber" PC:

    Using Wireless connection.

    Full Turn (360 degrees)
    *Average Time to Turn = 0.588 seconds

    1/2 Turn (180 degrees)
    *Average Time to Turn = 0.397 seconds

    Death while docked at an outpost:
    *Average Time to full Respawn = 58.75 seconds

    Death while sailing at sea:
    *Average Time to full Respawn = 59 seconds

    Death respawn time while playing with my friend on a duo sloop
    Average Full respawn for me = 1 minute 1 second
    Average Full respawn for friend (whos PC is wired to network) = 48-50 seconds

    There are the numbers in black & white showing the advantages that PC has in turning (therefore aiming) & in loading times!
    TBH the PC turn times could be done even quicker, but i'll use Trophy's verified numbers ;)

  • @banana-bandlt The problem with the sliders is that my turn speed when NOT aiming is very slow compared to mouse turning. This slows down even more if i choose to aim. All sliders are on 10 btw. A common response to this is 'learn to shoot without aiming'. I do, but kb/m does it faster and more accurately. Imbalanced.

  • @logansdadtoo
    Xbox spawned faster at sea?

  • @nwo-azcrack
    PC was on wifi so would take longer, would be quicker using a wired connection as is proved when he is duo slooping ;)

  • I have a gen one xbox one. And an xbox one x. I play on one and my bro uses the other. Both wired. And the one X loading times are better across the board. The player using the one X can get a whole inventory and make it to the boat, and turn all lanterns off, before the regular xbox one loads in.
    The PC wired is even faster.
    Just wanted to throw that out there because i see them side by side everyday.

  • This is one of those situations where one side is making logical fact based arguments, and the other side is making opinion and feeling based arguments. Which makes sense, as there is no logical argument that can be made against an option to opt-out of crossplay.

    1. No one here is suggesting to get rid of cross-play.

    2. Suggesting this would "split the playerbase" although accurate; doesn't actually support you counter argument. In order for that to make sense, you have to make a connection between how splitting the playerbase is going to negatively effect you personally.

    3. Suggesting that "a split in player base will make it so servers are empty" doesn't make any sense. The game is designed to seamlessly migrate people to servers. If you've read recent patch notes you'd know there was an issue that caused servers to become empty or near empty; it was not related to the game's popularity.

    4. "Microsoft should put K&M on xbox" or "PC players should be forced to use a controller". First doesn't make sense because it would cost far more time and money when the most logical solutions would be to just update the game for much less. The second would never work for many reasons.

    5. "My PC friend plays using a controller and they enjoy it" or "The advantage is over exaggerated". As someone who has played competitively/professionally on both xbox and PC (and played against cheaters/K&M users on both, with a controller on both). This gave me a good chuckle. Its obvious anyone making this argument either doesn't understand what they are talking about, trolling, or is afraid they'll be playing yet another PC game where they don't have a massive advantage against someone.

    Even if it was 60fps on console with extensive controller optimization and customization options (think Overwatch) PC players would still have an massive advantage.

    1. "People assume they are playing against PC players" and you are assuming they aren't.

    2. "K/M is an advantage but it isn't a guaranteed win". This one also gave me a good chuckle. You are refuting your own argument in the first half of that sentence. Did you know that cheating in online games isn't a guaranteed win either? I recall playing professionally against teams using modded controllers, completely breaking the game making it almost impossible to win any close range engagement with them. We still beat them by a landslide, and actually accused me personally of cheating because of how badly I stomped on them. Point is; it doesn't matter what the results are, what matters is that its an unfair advantage. Of course there are going to be Xbox players that completely destroy PC players, I do it constantly. I've had 1v4's against PC players and still killed them all and sunk their ship. The thing is, a casual PC player shouldn't be able to touch an ex-pro Xbox player, there shouldn't be a comparison. The only reason there is, is because of how broken and massive the advantage on PC is.

    3. "I'm just claiming that the advantage you have in the game with this kind of game play isn't as big as you or others in this thread are portraying it."
      As someone who has played competitively/professionally for over a decade on both PC and console, and it's my opinion that a lot of these people are going extremely easy on the illogical feeling based arguments I see in this thread. I'd argue its actually far worse than these people are portraying it.

    4. " it isn't a competitive shooter." /facepalm

    ... objectively speaking Sea of Thieves can only be described as a competitive shooter. Its a shooter, and its exclusively PvP... lol

    I just want an option to opt out of cross-play, I don't see how this is an argument in the first place, as I've yet to see a reason why being able to opt-out of cross-play would negatively effect anyone.

    "But CondorCalabasas, how do you know you are playing against PC players?!?!" uhhh, because you guys type in the chat, say cringey PC fanboys lines like "console p***s" and the way you guys move makes it extremely obvious. Its physically impossible for console players to move the same way PC players do regardless of settings, or what kind of fancy controller you have, objectively speaking.

  • @holezinya Sorry but no to KBM support on Xbox. Ialready have the same equipment as every other xbox, we already purchased the necessary gear to play on a level playing field, but now i need to buy KBM to compete? No thanks. To be totally transparent, i use a OneX, but this will help me see a shipwreck in the distance, not outmanouvre someone in PVP. Noframes advantage on the X either.

  • @condorcalabasas Another well presented discussion. Unfortunately, you will get upvotes from supporters, and silence from anyone that disagrees because there isnt any real argument against you. I guess thats how they stifle the conversation, just troll people, and ignore anyone thats got a good thought. I constructed a similar novel on page 11, any thoughts?(again, gets a few upvotes, but noone tries to debunk)

  • @pomalotacusmk3 I gave it a read, a lot of solid points, all of which I agree on. You made a really solid argument about why xbox players aren't playing anymore. I have zero interest in playing Sea of Thieves at the moment, and the reason is because of the mandatory cross-play. Instead immersing myself in the experience just by thinking about objectives/goals to complete within the game I'm constantly thinking about how me and my crew are going to beat PC players when we come across them. It takes away from the entire experience, and completely breaks any immersion. I want to feel like a pirate, and I have definitely had that feeling playing this game in the past (played since the second alpha test), but lately I just feel like a gamer playing a video game. And although I'm trying to be hopeful, I don't see my interest in this game coming back until opt-out for cross-play is enabled. And based on this thread and the arguments within it, I'd be pretty shocked if rare doesn't implement opt-out for cross-play. I think/hope its just a matter of when.

  • @logansdadtoo I'm sorry to say that those findings have no merit.
    For one, what is an "Uber" PC?
    What are the hardware specs and how many PC players do you assume to have those same specs? Or more accurately, how many players actually do?

    Xbox users, I'm sorry you bought a Pinto and you're upset it doesn't keep up to a Ferrari.
    I bought a bloody Ugo and can't keep up to your Pinto. So yeah, I feel your pain plus loads more.

    I have a cheap system that barely scrapes through the minimum requirements of SoT. It won't run Horizon 3 or State of Decay2. Your system will.

    Just because I have a frame rate that never exceeds 20 fps, I don't assume all PCs have that frame rate.
    Just because I play on a 19" monitor, I don't assume all PC players have the same.
    But I sure as hell know that at least most of you console users are using a big widescreen family TV to see all of the details in your game. Details that don't even appear on my monitor due to my game settings.


    The whole debate it stupid, it's like a d**k measuring contest in reverse.

    I'm not against the toggle on/off option of cross play, honest. But I'd hate to lose the friends I've made thanks to this game. For the record, of my 75 Xbox app friends, 72 of them are Xbox users. Only two or three at any given time are playing SoT. They're online and playing alright, but on other titles on game pass.

    Micro$oft spent a lot of money, time, money, effort and money on developing the cross-play platform (not to mention the Xbox itself). It isn't going to ri$k losing expected profit$ of those investments anytime $oon.
    The toggle cross-play option would need to be made as an in-game feature by Rare, owned and governed by Micro$oft. Even as a stand alone company do you really think they would FREELY invest their time in developing the toggle system and the work involved for their servers to detect and distribute all unique game instances correctly according to platform?

    Weigh it up with the percentages of Xbox players who actually bought the game outright and the many who are just playing it on game pass. Even less reason for either Rare or Micro$oft to listen.

  • @admiral-rrrsole 20fps and a 19" monitor! Pah luxury ;-)

  • @scoobywrx555 lol
    "luxury"
    "I used to dream of living in a cardboard box".

  • @admiral-rrrsole
    19" monitor. Luxury

    I cut out a hole in a cereal packet for a screen,
    'ave me kids stand behind it and pretend to 'ave a pirate fight,
    while I tap away on me keyboard that i've drawn on a plank that I use for a desk...

  • @admiral-rrrsole

    "The whole debate it stupid, it's like a d**k measuring contest in reverse." Yea it is, because PC players have an advantage even if they are running 20fps on an 19" monitor. lol

    "Micro$oft spent a lot of money, time, money, effort and money on developing the cross-play platform (not to mention the Xbox itself). It isn't going to ri$k expected profit$ anytime $oon."

    I wish I understood why people do this. You just made a baseless statement, to support your argument but made zero attempt to back it up or even explain it.

    How do you know that? If anything enabling an option to opt-out of cross-play would result in more profits; not less.

    "Even as a stand alone company do you really think they would FREELY invest their time in developing the toggle system and the work involved for their servers to detect and distribute all unique game instances correctly according to platform?"

    You mean like when they developed a toggle system for private and public crews? lol

    Have you played Sea of Thieves? I ask because you are describing exactly what Rare has been doing since the games release.

  • @admiral-rrrsole Hi Admiral. Im sure that gaming on a low end PC isnt fun, ive been there before. Thats one of the reasons i bought an xbox, It would mean that every one i bumped into would be playing with the same freedoms and restrictions approximately (controller type, tv type,etc) But now that level playing field has been taken away. As a PC player, you must have known that there are thousands of variations of hardware and software combinations possible, yet you still chose what you wanted.....It may sound harsh, but 'my PC isn't very good' isnt really a 'play anywhere and crossplay' thread, its more of a 'PC balancing' thread.Dont take this the wrong way, i definitely had fun sinking the galleon the other day👍 i just dont see a good argument to force crossplay.

  • @banana-bandlt said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    i suppose ill weigh in here. IF there came an option to turn cross play on or off, far more than half the xbox side would turn it off, and wether or not it is intentional, the community would split drastically.

    if half the xbox players turned it off it would still leave a huge player base for pc players. if they intend to someday make it optional they are doing it right by waiting. some of my most regular crewmates are on the pc, so i would most likely leave it enabled unless running solo. i would like to experience a world where all things were equal, and those annoying hopping and spinning and dead eye aiming dudes were somebody else's problem.

  • I'm still voting for always-on crossplay. Aside from the reasons I've already mentioned, I have another thing to consider.

    I have friends on both xbox and pc. If I'm in a session with someone, who has crossplay turned off and one of the crew leaves, who do I invite? I now have to keep a printed list somewhere to check who on my friendlist is on pc or xbox? It's going to be really fun for everyone. Invited to party: "Hi, thanks for the invite, lets play." "oh you actualy can't, sorry..."

  • @sir-lotus said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    I'm still voting for always-on crossplay. Aside from the reasons I've already mentioned, I have another thing to consider.

    I have friends on both xbox and pc. If I'm in a session with someone, who has crossplay turned off and one of the crew leaves, who do I invite? I now have to keep a printed list somewhere to check who on my friendlist is on pc or xbox? It's going to be really fun for everyone. Invited to party: "Hi, thanks for the invite, lets play." "oh you actualy can't, sorry..."

    You're grasping at straws if you're trying to make this up as an issue. People you invite get a notification that they're joining a crossplay session. Easy fix right there. Keep trying.

  • @cnt-thelrox 1st of all, there were other reasons posted, this is just another one.

    2nd of all, you're wrong. Inviting to a party has nothing to do with the game, you won't get any notification.

  • @sir-lotus said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 4:

    I'm still voting for always-on crossplay. Aside from the reasons I've already mentioned, I have another thing to consider.

    I have friends on both xbox and pc. If I'm in a session with someone, who has crossplay turned off and one of the crew leaves, who do I invite? I now have to keep a printed list somewhere to check who on my friendlist is on pc or xbox? It's going to be really fun for everyone. Invited to party: "Hi, thanks for the invite, lets play." "oh you actualy can't, sorry..."

    HAhahaha, you are making this rediculously complicated.

    The player that starts the party could just choose if they want to play in a crossplay server or not. If you dont want to join them if they are in a crossplay server you can just decline. Its really not that complicated. The option to play in a non crossplay server would probably be used more by solo players anyway, which would equal the playing field even further by decreasing the number of galeons and increasing the number of sloops in that server.

  • @admiral-rrrsole you lost me at stupid...

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