[Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3

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    As this is a hot topic in the community, we have created a mega thread focused on Microsoft's 'Play Anywhere' (Cross Play) between the two platforms (Windows 10 PC and Xbox One) in Sea of Thieves.

    From our Design Deep Dive - Cross Play:

    Here at Rare we’re building Sea of Thieves in complete feature parity across platforms. An interesting part of cross play is how wide it throws open the doors for different communities to engage and play together, and therefore increases the wealth of stories you’re likely to tell.

    https://youtu.be/pjd1JYFOsbU


    Here's previous discussions on this topic:


    As you participate in this thread -

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  • Something seems different in that image....nah, just seeing things.

  • About time!

  • @knightx13 are you talking about the pirate woman creepily staring at my soul? Yeah...there's definitely something different about the image. 😂

  • Simple for me. Just give us a choice to disable crossplay :P The reason other games have been able to successfully implement it is due to giving players the choice and not forcing it upon them. Some players are happy playing handicapped, other are not. And the developers always said how they want to cater to all audiences and this is the best way to do so.

    You will never be able to balance it fairly for both sides of the spectrum without ruining the experience for one side, more so due to the advantages of keyboard and mouse you would essentially have to keep nerfing there sensitivity and controls and just make it clunky for them to make it more fair to those with the controller. And that's not fair on them.

    As said above, just give us the choice it doesnt hurt anybody in doing so and those that say it would split the playerbase are wrong im sorry, but its true. Even if there was only 100 people playing the game due to the way the server migration works there should still always be full lobbies so i dont buy that argument personally.

    TLDR: Give players a choice to disable crossplay, don't force players to play handicapped.

  • My thoughts on cross platform is that while it's cool and all, any sort of PvP combat that requires aiming = immediate advantage for PC. Sea of Thieves does try to combat that with the long delays between shooting and also the stun upon a failed sword lunge, but that just ends up making the combat feel clunky and kind of too simple on PC, not sure about XB1.

    I guess it'd be kind of dumb to just say 'get rid of it' or whatever, but some sort of option to disable it or such would probably settle better with folks who don't want to deal with potential imbalances between controlls vs mouse/keyboards. Again though it's pretty much only an issue in PvP, and PvP is only really a big focus right now because there isn't much else to do in the game that can feel compelling/fun to certain types of players.

  • Since this isn't a esport title nor will it ever be one, I say keep crossplay in there and just make a decent match making system. Plenty of bad pc players and good xbox players out there.

  • there, people can now stop making posts saying rare says nothing about it

  • Keep crossplay and don't add an option to disable it. If they do, I'll move over to Xbox with all my PC buds and play using the xim. Good times.

  • I would like an option to disable cross play, seeing I spent my hard earned money on the game.

    Playing with such a big disadvantage takes enjoyment out of the game, and when spending my money on this game I figured there would have been things in place to stop aim bots and other mods available to pc players. I was wrong

  • @khaleesibot honestly IMO, this issue is not an issue. This game was always supposed to be cross play, so people complaining about it really should have done their research. Also, the game is not competitive and PvP isn't the main area of the game (despite what some people think) so this shouldn't be an issue anyway, unless you are an Xbox griefer constantly trying to attack a crew of PC pros.

    All these Xbox players going on about the "PC advantage" but honestly, point is how do they know they are playing against a PC player, and not somebody who is just better than them? It seems like this "Oh waa waa waa the PC players are more accurate! The PC players move quicker, etc." is just being used as an excuse for bad players who don't want to accept that they need to get better.

    I say this because I play on PC and my crew mate is the most MLG player I have seen in any game he puts his hand to. He plays on Xbox and runs circles around me, all the time. So these players complaining really need to either get better or realise that they should have researched the game.

    Edit: The only advantage PC players may actually have is that the game loads quicker.

  • @thewolfman321 Games change. No one is saying crossplay wasn't part of the game, they're saying it is not working fairly. Research has nothing to do with it.

  • @racmop they already play, so it wouldn't be addional sales. Sorry to disappoint

  • I (mostly) play on Xbox, and then when I do play on PC, I use the controller. I am against disabling cross play. My main reason is:

    The benefits of Mouse + Keyboard are negligible in the grand scheme of encounters
    I'm not about to argue that M+K don't have an advantage when it comes to aiming the reticle. This is basically a given, and any argument that claims otherwise is imo flawed. So if SoT was a twitch based shooting game, I would say this advantage matters.

    The reality is that there is so much that goes into game play, PvP or otherwise, that is completely unrelated to your ability to aim a pistol. In a given PvP encounter, you have to

    • Navigate through own ship to
    1. Prioritize repairing the ship if damage is taken
    2. Aim cannons
    3. Set sails to maintain proper speed
    4. Turn the wheel to maintain good heading
    • Manage resources effectively
    • Engage in actual PvP
    1. Close range (Sword + Blunderbuss / Pistol )
    2. Long range PvP (EoR / Pistol range)

    ... And so on. Of all those tasks, I'll go ahead and concede that a PC player, with their sensitivity jacked up, has the advantage in the Long range PvP aspect, probably also close range.

    That being said, I would honestly give the controller crowd an edge in the tasks that involve navigating the ship. The fidelity of movement with a joystick has always felt much more precise than having to deal with WSAD. That may just be a personal opinion (git gud, etc.) but I think most people would agree with that.

    But either way, a M+K is not going to magically make you better at steering the ship. It won't make you have better choices on how to face a battle. It doesn't magically whisper to you the perfect time to let go of your underwater gunpowder barrel to sink the enemy ship. If anything, it even has a disadvantage because it doesn't vibrate when certain actions happen.

    So I really think this argument that "I lost because other player had M+K" is not always true. People can lose these conflicts for a number of reasons if you analyze what actually happened during the fight.

  • @Greaseman85 But dude, my whole response is literally about how it's working fairly, or close enough that it shouldn't be an issue. Tell me how it isn't and then we can debate :)

    @RACMOP I don't really see how it's smoke and mirrors to be honest with you buddy, just my perspective, but to answer your real question:
    The problem PC players have with an option to toggle cross play is mainly that this game was made for Xbox, and due to this the majority of players are on Xbox, coupling this with the fact that the game is sold through the MS store rather than Steam will mean that it will be missed by a large number of PC as Steam is the main platform , then Origin or Battle.net. This means that if loads and loads of of players will turn off cross play due to this illusion of the PC advantage, there for the PC players will have to deal with smaller server sizes, which will e a shame for those who like PvP.
    As for the second half of your question, the one example people keep using is Rocket League (if you have another please share). This is a competitive game, where the only aim is to be better than your opponent. Therefore, if a PS4 controller has the advantage over keyboard, and the keyboard has the advantage over Xbox controllers, or vice versa/any other combination, then the option to turn this off allows the games to be as fair as possible due to the competitive nature of the games. Sea of Thieves is completely different than Rocket League, therefore the same rules do not apply.

  • @racmop you are a angry person. It's ok though. God bless.

  • Ahoy all! As we now have a dedicated mega thread for crossplay, due to it being a hot-topic, we'll be closing and redirecting existing threads on the subject to this main thread where all ideas, opinions and suggestions can be collected together in one place.

  • This discussion is wrong and completely oblivious to the actual problem. If I'm on a pc and want to use a controller I'm in the same camp as Xbox players. Just add an option to limit the control scheme. People that want to use controllers are grouped. People that want to use k/m are grouped. If we are looking at the controller as the limiting factor then make that the option ie, the controller only games and disable the keyboard mouse.

  • @elem08 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    I (mostly) play on Xbox, and then when I do play on PC, I use the controller. I am against disabling cross play. My main reason is:

    The benefits of Mouse + Keyboard are negligible in the grand scheme of encounters
    I'm not about to argue that M+K don't have an advantage when it comes to aiming the reticle. This is basically a given, and any argument that claims otherwise is imo flawed. So if SoT was a twitch based shooting game, I would say this advantage matters.

    The reality is that there is so much that goes into game play, PvP or otherwise, that is completely unrelated to your ability to aim a pistol. In a given PvP encounter, you have to

    • Navigate through own ship to
    1. Prioritize repairing the ship if damage is taken
    2. Aim cannons
    3. Set sails to maintain proper speed
    4. Turn the wheel to maintain good heading
    • Manage resources effectively
    • Engage in actual PvP
    1. Close range (Sword + Blunderbuss / Pistol )
    2. Long range PvP (EoR / Pistol range)

    ... And so on. Of all those tasks, I'll go ahead and concede that a PC player, with their sensitivity jacked up, has the advantage in the Long range PvP aspect, probably also close range.

    That being said, I would honestly give the controller crowd an edge in the tasks that involve navigating the ship. The fidelity of movement with a joystick has always felt much more precise than having to deal with WSAD. That may just be a personal opinion (git gud, etc.) but I think most people would agree with that.

    But either way, a M+K is not going to magically make you better at steering the ship. It won't make you have better choices on how to face a battle. It doesn't magically whisper to you the perfect time to let go of your underwater gunpowder barrel to sink the enemy ship. If anything, it even has a disadvantage because it doesn't vibrate when certain actions happen.

    So I really think this argument that "I lost because other player had M+K" is not always true. People can lose these conflicts for a number of reasons if you analyze what actually happened during the fight.

    No it's not magic... but doing nearly everything in that list is significantly easier and more efficient... especially if you have to manage multiple tasks... and it allows you to more easily look around while doing it to help spot hostile players using kb/m. You move like a tank with the controller and multitasking is not as easy.

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    This discussion is wrong and completely oblivious to the actual problem. If I'm on a pc and want to use a controller I'm in the same camp as Xbox players. Just add an option to limit the control scheme. People that want to use controllers are grouped. People that want to use k/m are grouped. If we are looking at the controller as the limiting factor then make that the option ie, the controller only games and disable the keyboard mouse.

    This is a great point. I would honestly take it a step farther and say the game should be controller-only. In my opinion, Play Anywhere games that have crossplay should be controller only to begin with, as they were mainly designed to be console games and without Play Anywhere these games would probably not be available on PC until it was ported over a couple years later.

  • @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    This discussion is wrong and completely oblivious to the actual problem. If I'm on a pc and want to use a controller I'm in the same camp as Xbox players. Just add an option to limit the control scheme. People that want to use controllers are grouped. People that want to use k/m are grouped. If we are looking at the controller as the limiting factor then make that the option ie, the controller only games and disable the keyboard mouse.

    This is a great point. I would honestly take it a step farther and say the game should be controller-only. In my opinion, Play Anywhere games that have crossplay should be controller only to begin with, as they were mainly designed to be console games and without Play Anywhere these games would probably not be available on PC until it was ported over a couple years later.

    No, they shouldn't, what if... xbox gets a kb/m option which from what I hear is likely to happen.

    And it ignores workarounds like xim. Everyone who wants to use kb/m gets to use kb/m, and everyone that wants to use a controller gets to use a controller.

  • @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    Simple for me. Just give us a choice to disable crossplay :P The reason other games have been able to successfully implement it is due to giving players the choice and not forcing it upon them. Some players are happy playing handicapped, other are not. And the developers always said how they want to cater to all audiences and this is the best way to do so.

    You will never be able to balance it fairly for both sides of the spectrum without ruining the experience for one side, more so due to the advantages of keyboard and mouse you would essentially have to keep nerfing there sensitivity and controls and just make it clunky for them to make it more fair to those with the controller. And that's not fair on them.

    As said above, just give us the choice it doesnt hurt anybody in doing so and those that say it would split the playerbase are wrong im sorry, but its true. Even if there was only 100 people playing the game due to the way the server migration works there should still always be full lobbies so i dont buy that argument personally.

    TLDR: Give players a choice to disable crossplay, don't force players to play handicapped.

    Thank you! Took the words out of my mouth! The only other solution that was brought up On my old thread was possibly limiting the servers based on controller input. Rather than segregating PC vs Console, separate based on Controller vs. M/KB. This lets PC players who would rather play on controller still play with Xbox players on controllers. Just something else to consider!

    Credit for that idea to @SavageTwinky

  • My vote is for making crossplay optional, not for its removal. PC has advantage over XB, its not even a debate its fact, I also want to put out the fact that us xbox players pay £40/50 a year premium just to play online, throwing us into the same servers with people who pay nothing is an insult.

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    This discussion is wrong and completely oblivious to the actual problem. If I'm on a pc and want to use a controller I'm in the same camp as Xbox players. Just add an option to limit the control scheme. People that want to use controllers are grouped. People that want to use k/m are grouped. If we are looking at the controller as the limiting factor then make that the option ie, the controller only games and disable the keyboard mouse.

    This is a great point. I would honestly take it a step farther and say the game should be controller-only. In my opinion, Play Anywhere games that have crossplay should be controller only to begin with, as they were mainly designed to be console games and without Play Anywhere these games would probably not be available on PC until it was ported over a couple years later.

    No, they shouldn't, what if... xbox gets a kb/m option which from what I hear is likely to happen.

    And it ignores workarounds like xim. Everyone who wants to use kb/m gets to use kb/m, and everyone that wants to use a controller gets to use a controller.

    I hope they don't add keyboard and mouse support to Xbox, and if they do, it should be for web browsing or something only, not for playing. That defeats the purpose of consoles and why people play them.

  • @savagetwinky said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    This discussion is wrong and completely oblivious to the actual problem. If I'm on a pc and want to use a controller I'm in the same camp as Xbox players. Just add an option to limit the control scheme. People that want to use controllers are grouped. People that want to use k/m are grouped. If we are looking at the controller as the limiting factor then make that the option ie, the controller only games and disable the keyboard mouse.

    This guys knows what’s up.

  • A solution that doesn't involve replacing full crossplay with a gimped version for crossplay:

    Nerf the c**p out of the guns to force sword play. Basically make killing with the guns really hard.

    Reduce their accuracy, reduce their damage, aside from the gameplay benefits it would be more period accurate.

    I would suggest replacing their damage and accuracy with status effects. Make the blunderbuss a crowd control tool, knocking back and disorienting enemies. Make the pistol a single person debuff, similar to the limping effect when you jump from high and break your legs. Maybe give the sniper rifle a bleed effect or something, would make it useful for cleaning up stragglers.

    With these changes the skeletons would require a bit of fine tuning. Maybe less damage, less guns, better AI.

    These changes would reduce the advantage of better aiming on the pc. Give some more depth to PvP crew fights, since they would involve more of the interesting tactics instead of just blunderbussing everything to death.

    And a bonus fix: Make banana munching interruptible by other players but uninterruptible by skeletons. This would solve some of the banana tanking, but wouldn't make the skeleton wave fights 'more' frustrating.

  • my personal two cents:
    I play on both platforms, there is no arguing that i have an advantage over the xbox players when playing on PC. What seemed like a great idea turned south IMO as when i am on xbox and come across a pc player (you can tell from the text chatting and over all movement) i get wrecked without question, and DO the wrecking myself when on pc. Optional crossplay would be swell imo. Those that are naive thinking there is no advantage can go ahead and leave it on.

  • @personalc0ffee said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    @knifelife I like ya bud but you clearly didn't read.

    They said they aren't disabling it and yes I read that to mean they won't give you an option either.

    Time to get gud.

    They also said that they have left time in there development roadmap to adjust development for community feedback and requests. I also havent seen anywhere where they have specifically said "They will not be giving players a choice". What i have seen is a mega thread be put up where they are asking for feedback from the community, which i have given.

    I would also say if you claim to "Like me" then i would appreciate if you didnt attempt to insult me at the bottom of your reply.

  • Please give us the option to disable crossplay if we want. It works great for all other games that have crossplay.

  • @knifelife said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    TLDR: Give players a choice to disable crossplay, don't force players to play handicapped.

    Can you link/post the data/studies that show "said" handicap? I recently did my own case study comparing in-game turn times, spawn times, and in a roundabout way my own reaction times. And what I found was this "handicap" for the console users was a +/- .5 seconds. My data was representative of me and my play style for both systems. If i were to play on xbox one, I would set the controller to max sensitivity. As I play on PC I leave everything on default settings. So, if anything this could represent an average user.

    here are my findings: link

    TLDR: My point is this when you throw around generalized statements like "disadvantage" or being 2x 3x etc "faster." without including numbers/data it sounds like a "HUGE" deal however, in all actuality we are talking about a fraction of 1 second. Sounds fairly negligible to me.

  • @trophy-un1ocked

    “Difference of +/- 0.5 seconds” based off of one personal test group, but let’s just ignore that for the sake of my argument.

    Are you ready to start playing on a monitor with 500ms of input lag? Any competitive player is going to notice that difference.

  • @goodsamaritan11 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    @trophy-un1ocked

    “Difference of +/- 0.5 seconds” based off of one personal test group, but let’s just ignore that for the sake of my argument.

    Are you ready to start playing on a monitor with 500ms of input lag? Any competitive player is going to notice that difference.

    If you actually go back to my linked post, and assuming you know how to read. I explicitly stated that my sample data does not necessarily reflect the gaming community. This most recent post said you "could" associate it to an average player. Please learn context.

    Second you seem to be playing this game extremely "competitive" similar to say CoD or some other "PVP" game. Sounds to me like you're doing it wrong?

    PS. if you disagree with my data. Do your own tests and let me know how you would play on both consoles and publish the results.

  • @greaseman85 said in [Mega Thread] Play Anywhere and Cross Play - Part 3:

    I hope they don't add keyboard and mouse support to Xbox, and if they do, it should be for web browsing or something only, not for playing. That defeats the purpose of consoles and why people play them.

    No it doesn't. The amount of people that will focus on consoles are an even playing field ignore that PC is also an even playing field when everyone is using kb/m. If what people want is an even playing field base the options on what makes an even playing field.

  • @trophy-un1ocked it’s okay to be a little tushy hurt, I wouldn’t want to play on a 500ms monitor for any game either.

  • @personalc0ffee I agree, we all know it won't have a toggle in the end anyways. It's a huge part of this game, and all MSFT 1st party games going forward. This game is super casual PvP, I can only imagine the posts if they don't implement keyboard/mouse 60fps options by their next big fps launch like halo 6 (not counting state of decay or crackdown). I own an OG Xbox and what's considered a mid-tier pc. (4770k, 1060 6gb, 16gb 1866)

    @MindArchitect so if they added a 60fps option & mouse/keyboard support for Xbox, would that make these threads moot and everyone would be happy with cross-play? I bet they mention keyboard/mouse support at E3. They do have unofficial boxes that you can already buy to give support. Rare could probably add a 60fps option on low deets. Those seem to be the only two issues everyone talks about? They are adding 120hz refresh support for Xbox in May. You don't have to get over 60fps to enjoy double rates. Would those help?

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