[Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4

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    This topic is focused around Player Griefing in Sea of Thieves. This is a topic really close to our hearts because we are committed to our mission of creating a new type of multiplayer game, where foes can become friends and player alliances become the stories of legends.

    Please report all players who are behaving in ways that go against our Pirate Code.

    We've heard your feedback on this issue and from our Top Feedback Points Article and as a result:

    Spawn-killing

    Work in progress: We added information on how to scuttle your shop to the loading screen on the way back from the Ferry of the Damned, and also adding a reminder on the Ferry of the Damned itself that this option is available.
    Investigating: We are also considering options around moving ships to other world instances if they are caught in a griefing situation. This is a slightly more complex change, so we are currently investigating this to understand exactly what it would take, and the value.

    Brig abuse

    Work in progress: A key change we are working on is to allow players to select whether they want their ship to be open to others being matchmade with them, or closed so that it's invite-only. This will allow players to manage how many people they want on their ship, invite friends and decide whether or not to allow other players to join them. We hope this mitigates one of the key reasons for people misusing the brig. It also has the added benefit of allowing players to sail the galleon with a smaller crew if they desire, or the sloop with a larger crew. We've had a lot of feedback and requests for this so we'll be very happy to deliver this functionality.


    Here's previous discussions on this topic:


    As you participate in this thread -

    Keep to the Pirate Code
    As a reminder, the Pirate Code is more than just guidelines (though the reference really never gets old), but the rules of the community and game that we expect all members to abide by when participating on the forums. Any member who fails to abide by the code may find themselves put in the brig, or removed from the community.

    We also have Forum Rules, which we moderate to.

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  • We needed this Khaleesi! I keep linking the news page now when this topic pops up!
    Nice work as always!

  • I see a lot of posts in the previous parts of this MEGA thread that are just bad experiences with other players, usually getting sunk or shot without them seeing any reason for it or beating a skull fort and then getting your loot stolen. While I do symphatize with people that had that bad luck, this is in not griefing but just PvP.

    Griefing is continuous spawnkilling, brig abuse and other acts that deliberately ruin the gameplay of players which they usually cannot resolve themselves.

    Everyone probably experienced at least some of it and stories posted here about griefing can get you some sympathy and offer some relief, but without any suggestions we won't really solve the issue.

    Prevent splitting up PvE and PvP
    Let me start by saying that I'm against seperation of groups on special servers because there are better and easier way to solve this without spending time breaking out game mechanics and turning the game into something completely different. The time spent on breaking up the game would be much better spent invested in the game as a whole on new features everyone could enjoy.

    Here are some suggestions against griefing and general PvP frustration. These are not all my ideas, I've seen several around the forums as there are enough people that think in non game breaking solutions that would benefit the entire community instead of just a specific group.

    Suggestion 1: Improved matchmaking / searching the seas (PvE/PvP balance improvement and get griefers to annoy eachother)
    Instead of creating seperate servers that require complete rework of the game's core mechanics, I think it would be a better idea to try and make sure that people that kill a lot of others and sink a lot of ships end up dealing with people that are into the same.

    To do this I think Rare should calculate and attach a number to each player based on the amount of player kills / ship sinking / deaths / voyages completed and when matchmaking take the average of everyone on the ship to add them into a server that has players/crews with about the same average number. It doesn't have to be the exact same but I think they could create several steps or leagues of server slots. This doesn't have to be surfaced to the players.

    The result would be that everyone on the server is about as experienced as the others and probably have a similar way of playing. Everyone would be matched with somewhat likeminded or equally skilled players. It would also put griefers together with other griefers or people that actually know how to defend themselves and most importantly away from people that can't.

    I think this solution would benefit the entire community without changing the game's core mechanics to cater to specific people. It will allow everyone to play the way they want without removing the 'danger' of other pirates. Having a more equal playing field might even convince the 'pure' PvE players to dip their toes into a more fair PvP setting with equally experiences people.

    Suggestion 2: Private crew / invite only crew (Rare is already working on this one)
    This one has been suggested a lot and Rare is already working on it as far as I know. Having a invite only crew will definitely reduce the amount of brig abuse, the sooner this can be implemented the better.

    Suggestion 3: Don't move victims, move the guilty
    I would like to see the people commiting the 'crime' to be punished, not the people being victim to it. Keep a counter that counts up each time someone gets killed on his or her ship within a minute of spawning by a certain crew. Once the counter hits 5 the griefers ship and crew get transferred to another server and make sure to show them the reason why they get moved: "Ruin other pirates experiences as you please and you will be surprised by different seas".
    This could even result in a auto ban after being moved a certain number of times.

    Suggestion 4: Name and shame, but keep it ingame
    Whenever someone has multiple offenses of griefing they'll probably be removed from the community with a ban or something. Before that however we could basically show everyone that certain people have spent time griefing other players. Make them walk around with a title of shame, a unchangeble goofy outfit or pink dress, a sign around their neck, something that punishes them for not respecting honor among thieves and showing others that it might not be someone you want to play with. Hopefully making them change their ways, but also warning others.

    Suggestion 5: Removing players from your crew
    While private crews will prevent brig abuse, playing with random people is still a great way to meet new people. If you encounter someone who does spent time acting like an A*s to your crew or (to pull it into this topic) seems to enjoy the act of griefing others, it should be able to remove this person from your crew.

    Suggestion 6: Have Rare report back about what's being done with griefers/cheaters
    I understand that Rare can't give full details on all their internal actions, but maybe as a comfort to some and a warning to others Rare could give an update every now and then about their actions against griefers and/or cheaters.

    A general message that for example something along the lines of:
    "We've heard your concerns and received a lot of reports about griefers, hacks or cheats. As said before we have a zero tolerance policy on these matters and want everyone to be able to enjoy the game without encountering these kinds of behaviours. So since the release of the game we issued 12,457 warnings to players about griefing, gave 7521 players a temporary ban for repeated griefing offenses and banned 2501 accounts for cheating/hacking. We will continue the fight against behavior that only has the intent of ruining other peoples experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding, we hope to see you all on the seas!"

    Other PvP suggestions
    There were some other suggestions to improve PvP aspects like flags to indicate your intention or a bounty system to reward players for going after the ones that murder/sink a lot of others but that's not really related to griefing, so I'll skip that for now.

    That's all folks
    That's all suggestions against griefing I could think of, let me know what you think or share some other suggestions that help us grow this community into something greater.

  • Maybe this is a good idea for decreasing the possible griefing:

    When you die, you'll be send to the death ship. And on the ship you're a ghost.
    How about, that the ghost ship releases the inmates about 5 to 10 seconds earlier, but the player to be ressurected will arrive as a ghost, invisible for other alive players. (And he also can't do anything except walking/swimming/climbing.)
    And now he has the earlier mentioned 5 to 10 seconds for repositioning himself in/at/around the ship.

    Whith that, the possible griefers couldn't expect the freshly ressurected pirate, and has a chance to rescue his ship.
    (And also a maybe existing after-death-loading-lag is removed, due to the fact, that the surroundings are allready loaded while you're in ghost-state, and you'll simply be made visibly.)

    Sorry for my maybe not so good english.

    Thanks.

  • I'm really looking forward to being able to hold spaces for my friends, but I seriously hope they ditch the plans to allow more than 2 players to crew a Sloop.

  • @ever-reddy same.

  • @khaleesibot said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    Brig abuse

    Work in progress: A key change we are working on is to allow players to select whether they want their ship to be open to others being matchmade with them, or closed so that it's invite-only. This will allow players to manage how many people they want on their ship, invite friends and decide whether or not to allow other players to join them. We hope this mitigates one of the key reasons for people misusing the brig. It also has the added benefit of allowing players to sail the galleon with a smaller crew if they desire, or the sloop with a larger crew. We've had a lot of feedback and requests for this so we'll be very happy to deliver this functionality.

    After I played with @stacky-a one night and tried setting sail on a Light Sloop Crew (bracing myself for what was to come), I truly like this possibility.

  • There really needs to be a fix for ship crew sizes on the server. The old 4 man crew coming up and simply being a jerk by taking out my ship while im doing a certain task is making me not want to play this game when i have a spare hour in the day, but to play a different game. The past 3 times I've hopped on for a quick session. Ive gotten taken out by a 4 man crew. It is super frustrating! Don't give me the old...join a crew then or a bigger ship. Sometimes I don't have time to join a bigger crew or the want to play with others because I want to accomplish a specific task. Either way! This needs to be addressed! I said it in the beta forums and I will say it again. 1 man ships in the same play area with only 1 man ships and so on for 2 man ships and 4 man ships. Needs to happen! I get that its a open world PVE and PvP game, but when someone like myself cannot hop in and play one quick round while they have some down time; without getting destroyed by a 4 man crew. It puts a T***t in my mouth for a game that I absolutely love. Please RARE address this is some way. I never have this sane kind of experience by other players who are playing alone. Maybe evrn have a separate server for alone playing players. Because usually 1 man ships I've come into contact with end up helping each other or not just out to ruin someone's fun!

  • This one is really easy TBH. The first is obviously add the "private ship option".

    Second you guys REALLY need to make Skull Forts its own instance. It's ridiculous to sink the same ship 5-6 times. As far as grieving I mean the "scuttle" option is pretty straight forward. Although people have began to use the SCUTTLE in PvP to skip the "Spawn out of view" thing. Its a pretty irritating working around.

  • Please be careful with moving people to other instances. Due to how the game plays I do a lot of hiding loot on islands, rocks etc. So if you move me I lose my loot. Move the people doing the griefing not the person getting griefed.

    This might be more complex. But It's already hard enough for me not to lose treasure from the Kill on Sight mentality in the game. Please don't punish me for hiding my loot so I can come get it later.

    Thanks,

    Zeffin

  • @khaleesibot Great! Thanks for the update, glad the private crew option is being implemented finally! Will be so happy that I can drop out of a session to eat dinner then join my crew mate again! Hopefully sans problems! :)

  • I see a lot of people complain about PvE only servers and any other suggestions that help people that are not interested in the PvP portion of the game that basically sum up to a version of “If you don’t like it then this isn’t the game for you, bye”. Here’s the problem with that:
    This game was never marketed as a hardcore PvP only experience but what had resulted is not very far from that. There are no warnings about these things before you buy this game and frankly it’s unconventional enough that there should be warnings or a really good refund policy, this game has neither.
    Furthermore I don’t think that was Rare’s intent anyways. I think this is a balancing act they are trying to pull off that frankly has a long way to go. People simply aren’t used to working hard for things and then having other more skilled players simply take things from them. Backlash about this should have been and probably was expected.
    Besides I don’t see what the problem with them adding a PvE only option is when the result of not having it is those people stop playing anyways. More players would be better for the game and maybe once they’ve skilled up in PvE servers they will switch to PvP servers for a better challenge.
    If you want someone to either enjoy something the way you do or leave that means you are benefiting from someone’s lack of enjoyment and maybe you’re the real problem.
    Personally I think the other elements of the game hold up just fine without constantly having to worry about someone destroying me and taking the stuff I worked hard for just because I’m terrible at the game.

  • Scuttle your "shop" ? LOL

    But thanks for the update and these are all issues that needed to be addressed.

  • We need an option to boot people who "rubberband" around the brig and ferry. that's all I want. Tired of lazy w*****s cashing in while they do nothing and you can't get rid of them without taking 5-10 min. leaving the game and starting on a new server. Very irritating

  • @ninobrown666 I agree. One thing that could easily fix this is a timer on the ferry of the dam say 10min max or you get kicked to inactivity same for the brig. As I have seen this being done in both instances. It makes looking for new crew members that are productive hard as you have to leave the whole game.

  • @khaleesibot When a PVE server is introduced I may return. Until then I'm done. Really bored with the mindless PVP that goes on in SoT. Where's the structure? It's shoot first, make friends a distant second. I had 2 players today chase me down for about 30 minutes. I tried to run but I was getting so bored I just stopped and let them board. They spotted the chickens I had collected to take back to the outpost they were 'guarding' and instead of taking them and handing them in for themselves they just killed them. That's not being a pirate that's being a spiteful online bully. So I'm done until there is more of a catering for pve players in this game.

  • @personalc0ffee said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    Let me put it another way; a more mmmm harsh way.

    This game is a shared world.

    That means dealing with and playing with all sorts of people and not knowing who they are or their playstyles and them not knowing yours.

    If you give people the ability to choose whether they want to be connected to like minded people. It defeats the entire purpose of that central goal.

    And what is the central goal? To alienate a certain player by not giving them an option?

    You got Griefers? Good deal with 'em, out play them, and make them leave or make them bored.

    All the while making yourself bored in the process. I mean there's only so long players will drag a bunch of pvp'ers around the map before becoming very bored themselves. How can you out play persistence?

    You got PvP'ers? Give 'em a good fight or join 'em or run from 'em for a thrilling chase.

    Chases that last anything up to and over an hour because hey, got to get that kill right?

    You got PvE'er? Cool a friend or a easy target.

    What?

    All of these are possible in ONE world because of the way the game is set up. I don't want Rare catering to any specific side and they shoudn't be asked, nor expected to.

    Why because it goes against what you want? What are you so afraid of? What is it about a PVE server that scares you so much? Losing all those easy to kill pve'ers?

    And if that means losing a few thousand people SO BE IT.

    Pretty much sums up your whole post. Would rather people left the game than have Rare cater for PVE. Beyond selfish.

  • @fishst1ck said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    I see a lot of posts in the previous parts of this MEGA thread that are just bad experiences with other players, usually getting sunk or shot without them seeing any reason for it or beating a skull fort and then getting your loot stolen. While I do symphatize with people that had that back luck, this is in not griefing but just PvP.

    Griefing is continuous spawnkilling, brig abuse and other acts that deliberately ruin the gameplay of players which they usually cannot resolve themselves.

    Everyone probably experienced at least some of it and stories posted here about griefing can get you some sympathy and offer some relief, but without any suggestions we won't really solve the issue.

    Prevent splitting up PvE and PvP
    Let me start by saying that I'm against seperation of groups on special servers because there are better and easier way to solve this without spending time breaking out game mechanics and turning the game into something completely different. The time spent on breaking up the game would be much better spent invested in the game as a whole on new features everyone could enjoy.

    Here are some suggestions against griefing and general PvP frustration. These are not all my ideas, I've seen several around the forums as there are enough people that think in non game breaking solutions that would benefit the entire community instead of just a specific group.

    Suggestion 1: Improved matchmaking / searching the seas (PvE/PvP balance improvement and get griefers to annoy eachother)
    Instead of creating seperate servers that require complete rework of the game's core mechanics, I think it would be a better idea to try and make sure that people that kill a lot of others and sink a lot of ships end up dealing with people that are into the same.

    To do this I think Rare should calculate and attach a number to each player based on the amount of player kills / ship sinking / deaths / voyages completed and when matchmaking take the average of everyone on the ship to add them into a server that has players/crews with about the same average number. It doesn't have to be the exact same but I think they could create several steps or leagues of server slots. This doesn't have to be surfaced to the players.

    The result would be that everyone on the server is about as experienced as the others and probably have a similar way of playing. Everyone would be matched with somewhat likeminded or equally skilled players. It would also put griefers together with other griefers or people that actually know how to defend themselves and most importantly away from people that can't.

    I think this solution would benefit the entire community without changing the game's core mechanics to cater to specific people. It will allow everyone to play the way they want without removing the 'danger' of other pirates. Having a more equal playing field might even convince the 'pure' PvE players to dip their toes into a more fair PvP setting with equally experiences people.

    Suggestion 2: Private crew / invite only crew (Rare is already working on this one)
    This one has been suggested a lot and Rare is already working on it as far as I know. Having a invite only crew will definitely reduce the amount of brig abuse, the sooner this can be implemented the better.

    Suggestion 3: Don't move victims, move the guilty
    I would like to see the people commiting the 'crime' to be punished, not the people being victim to it. Keep a counter that counts up each time someone gets killed on his or her ship within a minute of spawning by a certain crew. Once the counter hits 5 the griefers ship and crew get transferred to another server and make sure to show them the reason why they get moved: "Ruin other pirates experiences as you please and you will be surprised by different seas".
    This could even result in a auto ban after being moved a certain number of times.

    Suggestion 4: Name and shame, but keep it ingame
    Whenever someone has multiple offenses of griefing they'll probably be removed from the community with a ban or something. Before that however we could basically show everyone that certain people have spent time griefing other players. Make them walk around with a title of shame, a unchangeble goofy outfit or pink dress, a sign around their neck, something that punishes them for not respecting honor among thieves and showing others that it might not be someone you want to play with. Hopefully making them change their ways, but also warning others.

    Suggestion 5: Removing players from your crew
    While private crews will prevent brig abuse, playing with random people is still a great way to meet new people. If you encounter someone who does spent time acting like an A*s to your crew or (to pull it into this topic) seems to enjoy the act of griefing others, it should be able to remove this person from your crew.

    Suggestion 6: Have Rare report back about what's being done with griefers/cheaters
    I understand that Rare can't give full details on all their internal actions, but maybe as a comfort to some and a warning to others Rare could give an update every now and then about their actions against griefers and/or cheaters.

    A general message that for example something along the lines of:
    "We've heard your concerns and received a lot of reports about griefers, hacks or cheats. As said before we have a zero tolerance policy on these matters and want everyone to be able to enjoy the game without encountering these kinds of behaviours. So since the release of the game we issued 12,457 warnings to players about griefing, gave 7521 players a temporary ban for repeated griefing offenses and banned 2501 accounts for cheating/hacking. We will continue the fight against behavior that only has the intent of ruining other peoples experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding, we hope to see you all on the seas!"

    Other PvP suggestions
    There were some other suggestions to improve PvP aspects like flags to indicate your intention or a bounty system to reward players for going after the ones that murder/sink a lot of others but that's not really related to griefing, so I'll skip that for now.

    That's all folks
    That's all suggestions against griefing I could think of, let me know what you think or share some other suggestions that help us grow this community into something greater.

    I disagree with "Suggestion 3: Don't move victims, move the guilty"

    Sometimes people spawn camp in order to prevent the victim from chasing their crews ship... If you make spawn-camping a bannable offense, then you are making an important part of gameplay a bannable offense mate, meaning people will be too scared to play the game out of fear of getting banned for "griefing", even if your intention wasn't to grief, but to ensure escape, for instance.

    That is why they move the victim instead of the guilty... Spawn camping can be used for griefing, yes, but that doesn't mean every case of spawn-camping is griefing. The aim isn't to punish the victim by making them swap servers, the aim is to separate them to prevent further toxicity between the two... Sort of like breaking up a fight in the schoolyard between two students. :]

    It's fine to find a solution for spawn camping, i don't think anybody minds that... But making it a bannable offense is too much. : /

    I agree with the rest of your suggestions though! Solid and right on point! :)

  • @sweltering-nick said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    @fishst1ck said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    I see a lot of posts in the previous parts of this MEGA thread that are just bad experiences with other players, usually getting sunk or shot without them seeing any reason for it or beating a skull fort and then getting your loot stolen. While I do symphatize with people that had that back luck, this is in not griefing but just PvP.

    Griefing is continuous spawnkilling, brig abuse and other acts that deliberately ruin the gameplay of players which they usually cannot resolve themselves.

    Everyone probably experienced at least some of it and stories posted here about griefing can get you some sympathy and offer some relief, but without any suggestions we won't really solve the issue.

    Prevent splitting up PvE and PvP
    Let me start by saying that I'm against seperation of groups on special servers because there are better and easier way to solve this without spending time breaking out game mechanics and turning the game into something completely different. The time spent on breaking up the game would be much better spent invested in the game as a whole on new features everyone could enjoy.

    Here are some suggestions against griefing and general PvP frustration. These are not all my ideas, I've seen several around the forums as there are enough people that think in non game breaking solutions that would benefit the entire community instead of just a specific group.

    Suggestion 1: Improved matchmaking / searching the seas (PvE/PvP balance improvement and get griefers to annoy eachother)
    Instead of creating seperate servers that require complete rework of the game's core mechanics, I think it would be a better idea to try and make sure that people that kill a lot of others and sink a lot of ships end up dealing with people that are into the same.

    To do this I think Rare should calculate and attach a number to each player based on the amount of player kills / ship sinking / deaths / voyages completed and when matchmaking take the average of everyone on the ship to add them into a server that has players/crews with about the same average number. It doesn't have to be the exact same but I think they could create several steps or leagues of server slots. This doesn't have to be surfaced to the players.

    The result would be that everyone on the server is about as experienced as the others and probably have a similar way of playing. Everyone would be matched with somewhat likeminded or equally skilled players. It would also put griefers together with other griefers or people that actually know how to defend themselves and most importantly away from people that can't.

    I think this solution would benefit the entire community without changing the game's core mechanics to cater to specific people. It will allow everyone to play the way they want without removing the 'danger' of other pirates. Having a more equal playing field might even convince the 'pure' PvE players to dip their toes into a more fair PvP setting with equally experiences people.

    Suggestion 2: Private crew / invite only crew (Rare is already working on this one)
    This one has been suggested a lot and Rare is already working on it as far as I know. Having a invite only crew will definitely reduce the amount of brig abuse, the sooner this can be implemented the better.

    Suggestion 3: Don't move victims, move the guilty
    I would like to see the people commiting the 'crime' to be punished, not the people being victim to it. Keep a counter that counts up each time someone gets killed on his or her ship within a minute of spawning by a certain crew. Once the counter hits 5 the griefers ship and crew get transferred to another server and make sure to show them the reason why they get moved: "Ruin other pirates experiences as you please and you will be surprised by different seas".
    This could even result in a auto ban after being moved a certain number of times.

    Suggestion 4: Name and shame, but keep it ingame
    Whenever someone has multiple offenses of griefing they'll probably be removed from the community with a ban or something. Before that however we could basically show everyone that certain people have spent time griefing other players. Make them walk around with a title of shame, a unchangeble goofy outfit or pink dress, a sign around their neck, something that punishes them for not respecting honor among thieves and showing others that it might not be someone you want to play with. Hopefully making them change their ways, but also warning others.

    Suggestion 5: Removing players from your crew
    While private crews will prevent brig abuse, playing with random people is still a great way to meet new people. If you encounter someone who does spent time acting like an A*s to your crew or (to pull it into this topic) seems to enjoy the act of griefing others, it should be able to remove this person from your crew.

    Suggestion 6: Have Rare report back about what's being done with griefers/cheaters
    I understand that Rare can't give full details on all their internal actions, but maybe as a comfort to some and a warning to others Rare could give an update every now and then about their actions against griefers and/or cheaters.

    A general message that for example something along the lines of:
    "We've heard your concerns and received a lot of reports about griefers, hacks or cheats. As said before we have a zero tolerance policy on these matters and want everyone to be able to enjoy the game without encountering these kinds of behaviours. So since the release of the game we issued 12,457 warnings to players about griefing, gave 7521 players a temporary ban for repeated griefing offenses and banned 2501 accounts for cheating/hacking. We will continue the fight against behavior that only has the intent of ruining other peoples experience. Thank you for your patience and understanding, we hope to see you all on the seas!"

    Other PvP suggestions
    There were some other suggestions to improve PvP aspects like flags to indicate your intention or a bounty system to reward players for going after the ones that murder/sink a lot of others but that's not really related to griefing, so I'll skip that for now.

    That's all folks
    That's all suggestions against griefing I could think of, let me know what you think or share some other suggestions that help us grow this community into something greater.

    I disagree with "Suggestion 3: Don't move victims, move the guilty"

    Sometimes people spawn camp in order to prevent the victim from chasing their crews ship... If you make spawn-camping a bannable offense, then you are making an important part of gameplay a bannable offense mate, meaning people will be too scared to play the game out of fear of getting banned for "griefing", even if your intention wasn't to grief, but to ensure escape, for instance.

    That is why they move the victim instead of the guilty... Spawn camping can be used for griefing, yes, but that doesn't mean every case of spawn-camping is griefing. The aim isn't to punish the victim by making them swap servers, the aim is to separate them to prevent further toxicity between the two... Sort of like breaking up a fight in the schoolyard between two students. :]

    If you move the victim then people will lose the option of saving their loot by hiding it on Islands, etc. All spawn camping is griefing. If they wanted the loot, then sink the ship then they won't respawn next to you, their ship is half the map away. The only reason to spawn camp is to grief. Let's be clear to me spawn camping isn't killing me a couple of times when I respawn. It's killing me over and over 4 or more times. By time 4 you should have sunk my ship and then have more than enough time to grab the loot and go. The griefers are the bullies and you suggestion is reward the bullies and punish the victim.

    Zeffin

  • So far I have not had trouble with griefers. It's rare that I haven't scuttle long before someone can board me.
    That said in my opinion it's a bad game mechanic to punish victims. Punish the guilty or remove the mechanic that allows griefing.

    Nice thing is that it's Rare's opinion that matters.

    Zeffin

  • @zeffin "If you move the victim then people will lose the option of saving their loot by hiding it on Islands, etc."

    True, maybe we should just grit our teeth and use scuttle ship, then. I mean it's there specifically for situations like that. : /

    "All spawn camping is griefing."

    Incorrect, griefing is defined by intention + action, not just action. Hence why basic PvP interaction is not considered griefing. :P

    At this point you are using griefing as a buzzword to further your argument, which is intellectually dishonest.

    "If they wanted the loot, then sink the ship then they won't respawn next to you, their ship is half the map away."

    What if your ship doesn't have any cannonballs left and are just trying to shake off someone chasing you? What if the only way to do that is to board the enemy ship, drop their anchor and spawn camp them for a bit in order to get away from them?

    Not all spawn camping is griefing... By labeling ALL spawn camping as griefing, you are forbidding the ones trying to escape their chance to fight back, because if they do, they'll get banned. ._.

    Spawn camping applies if you merely stay until people respawn ONCE, to kill them again... You camp their spawn. Has nothing to do with 4 or more kills, the FIRST respawn you kill labels you a spawn camper from there on in, mate... Because you camped their spawn in order to kill them again.

    You can't just use your own definition of spawn camping, mate, that's not how this works. You don't get to cherry-pick your arguments like that, that's a logical fallacy. xD

    Spawn camping in of itself, is not griefing, but you can use it to grief people of course via abuse, in these cases we'd call it something along the lines of "abuse of spawn camping" or "excessive spawn camping"... Spawn camping by itself is a legit strategy in PvP, whether you personally accept that or not.

    Griefing is defined as sabotage that is intended to cause grief... That's action + intent... not just action, not just intent... That's the difference between griefing and PvP.

    In order to label something griefing, you need to prove intent within the context of action.

    "The griefers are the bullies and you suggestion is reward the bullies and punish the victim."

    Incorrect, it's not my suggestion... It was my rationalization for Rare's investigation into the matter. As you said, by server migrating the victim, they can't really use the environment to hide their treasure for safekeeping, which is a valid tactic to avoid getting robbed... I completely agree, so i will have to, like you, disagree with server migration altogether in this context. : /

  • @sweltering-nick said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    Incorrect, griefing is defined by intention + action, not just action.

    This!

  • A brigged player shouldn't get any gold and XP.

    If you want to play with random people this problem (player won't leave after getting brigged) won't get resolved!

  • @gulpee-rex This fixes half of the problem. What happens when you join a crew and are doing your share of the work but then for fun they decide to brig you on turn in? Don't even try to tell me this won't happen a lot.

  • @veisenberg
    Wants rare to change the game to make it better on himself.
    Calls others selfish.
    Oh the irony of this post

  • @personalc0ffee said in [Mega Thread] Player Griefing - Part 4:

    @veisenberg No I'd rather lose a few thousands players that don't understand this is a shared world that continue to stamp their feet and demand that Rare abandon all of their ideas, their core principles, and design decisions just so they can be catered with their little carebear and easy modes, to leave the game.

    Get it correct. Same goes with PvP.

    I'm honestly passed the point of caring and pretending I want these kind of people here. I do not. If you want splits in the community, I do not welcome you here.

    SoT is a shared world, where PvP and PvE play together at the same time.

    Get with the program or get out.

    Rare can not and will not make every single group happy. It is not possible.

    The problem with this whole argument is that adding the PvE only option literally does nothing to hurt you or anyone else. People that hate the PvP will stop playing it anyways. The only thing you do by excluding them from playing the game is limit revenue generation thus limiting any future development.
    Let people say what they want and let Rare decide if they want them buying a playing the game or not.
    If you don’t want a PvE version then it’s a self correcting problem and you’re the one that needs to stop complaining.
    It’s like I try to order a cheese pizza from a place that makes only pepperoni pizza and someone comes in yelling that I should eat it with pepperoni or I get no pizza at all. I’m asking for a cheese pizza let the restaurant (Rare) decide if I get it or not. The decision won’t impact you at all.

  • @unf8ted
    Adding a pve server hurts us all. Your just binded by your own selfishness to see that.
    Any splitting of the community is bad. Its a shared world game. If pvp isnt your thing, this game isnt for u. Asking a company to spend time and money on seperate servers is selfish

  • @nwo-azcrack
    The whole “splitting” argument is dumb when you’re telling the people that you don’t what to split to just stop playing.
    This whole argument makes no sense.

  • In regards to player griefing, I have one! I’m sure it’s not any different than others regarding a balance between PVP and PVE. It’s simply that most of us, especially on two man crews want more of a PVE experience and not get jacked by a gallion who we didn’t notice because we were too busy collecting animals and balancing that with fighting Skellys
    and feeding pigs.

    I propose PVP SEA LANES to be added in addition to changes already made. Another suggestion would be to add identifying Penant flags depended on what type of mission you had active! I.E. merchant, order of souls, gold hoarder. If no mission were selected after spawning into game then a simple Jolly Roger would display. I feel that this would at least keep people on task, and of course they’re free to choose to go attack another ship, BUT have that happen only in designated shipping lanes that could be, well not designated, but shifting like the ‘KRAKEN’. Like a block of 4x4 that shifts, and possibly PvP blocks that are static to that server that do not shift and everyone knows where they are. So as players enter or get near them, they receive a warning message. The penalty for not going into the PVP waters could be having to go around to get to their destination, and/or having to go against the wind, having to go into a storm. But if they choose to go through the PVP ZONE they could be attacked without provocation. Same rules as base game apply. What do you guys think?

  • @unf8ted
    Its better they leave then hurt us all. If Rare has to stop what they are doing to make a pve server then the ppl who bought the game and like it are going to suffer. Content will be pushed back. They will have to find ways to keep pve servers happy it will be a mess. Why should Rare stop and give u something that wasnt in the game in the first place?

  • @unf8ted
    Comming to a Pvepve game and asking them to break it in half for u makes no sense.

  • @nwo-azcrack
    This whole thing is like me going to a restaurant that sells pepperoni pizza and asking for a cheese pizza and then some random dude runs in and tells me I’m selfish for asking for it and I shouldn’t get any pizza.
    I get that a game is more complicated then that but let Rare decide if they want to cater to PvE only or not it’s not really your business.
    Money generated by PvE only players migh be more then enough to justify the cost involved but ultimately that again is up to Rare to decide. You don’t suddenly know that it would hurt the game overall because that’s too complex for you to possibly know.

  • I will add to my previous thread that I’m in no way against PVP, I mean it’s a freaking PIRATE GAME! I just want to see the game be the best it can be and I think adding those changes would fix and bring the communities together and allow for a more immersive experience. They had and still have shipping lanes that are attacked by real Pirates back then and still today! Thanks everyone.

  • @unf8ted
    They already decided. Multiple times. Your just being selfish and wont let go.

  • @nwo-azcrack
    When? And if so they why even bother arguing with me if it definitely isn’t happening anyways?

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