would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?

  • this discussion mostly determines weather or not the sloop should be the smallest boat to sail in the game. now, before continuing, no, rowboats (while an interesting concept) do not count. i'm referring to a ship that can be sailed from island to island with all basic ship properties included (such as guns, at least one sail, functional sail handling, storage, and steering.)

    specifically discussing the size, im imagining such a ship being about 3 quarters to half of the sloop's size.

    the benefits of such a small ship would be that such a small and maneuverable ship would be harder to hit with a cannon (though this depends on the gunner). also, as implied, the ship will have faster sail and steering management than that of a sloop. plus, every function of the ship will be generally close to one another. there is also the possibility that this ship would be able to sail in much more shallow waters, and even further inland (providing it with cover and an easy getaway by going straight through islands).with these benefits, would it be overpowered?

    however, with its benefits, it would also have downsides. its speed will be slower with the wind and supply will be extremely low. plus, its size will provide less cover in addition to it possibly having no lower deck. if you hit a sloop, it will take on water no matter where you hit it, so this will also be the case for the small ship. not the mention the amount of water it will take (at least two holes could mean a guaranteed sink). with these downsides, will it be underpowered?

    EDIT: a majority of people think that the ship should have more speed than a sloop or even more speed than a galleon, but loose something else for compensation. right now, lack of firepower seems to be the most popular, with people suggesting only one cannon/swivel gun to no cannons at all.

    onto some game specific issues: perhaps a world map or even a couple of cannons would be too big for such a small ship. but Rare have already presented smaller versions of objects such as sails, the captains table, the anchor's lift, and the brig (though a solo ship would not need a brig); for example i can see them reducing the anchor to a simple rope and heavy weight with a completely different interaction (also, the helm could be a simple lever attached directly to the rudder). there is also sailing in general; large waves will be bothersome in terms of the ships motion (and storms will be much worse).

    personally, i want this ship in the game. I've played solo a lot, and while managing a sloop has it's benefits, it has more benefits in a two person crew. specifically, you can say anything you want about galleons vs. sloops, but a two person sloop vs. a one person sloop has an obvious conclusion. when playing solo, i want my own unique benefits vs. a sloop or even a galleon. even more, i want ship types to represent the number of people in your party in general.

    however, i wont blame you if you disagree. some people like soloing in specifically a sloop because of specific benefits (more cover, more places to store things, etc.) there is still the possibility of adding two more ships between the sloop and the galleon; a "true" two person ship, and a three person ship.

    those are my thoughts. it was just something that i felt as if deserves more discussion especially taking into account its benefits as opposed to its downsides, as well as specific game issues.

    EDIT:

    thank you for posting your thoughts on this topic. as a response, i've created a rough concept design of the ship within the Fan Creations section of the forms based on your feedback.

    the ship would feature no firepower, for one thing (or maybe at least until swivel guns are introduced). to compensate for its lack of firepower and vulnerability, the ship will feature faster travel speed than the sloop with roughly the same (or better) turning radius.

    here is a link to the concept

    once again, thank you for posting your feedback so far. i still would like to see more discussion on this subject thus i'm looking forward to seeing even more feedback in the future.

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  • I wouldn't want it to be the slowest in the wind, then it would be boarded/anchor dropped constantly when the other ships with more players catch up to it.

  • @cpt-peach-beard I'd say it needs to be faster than every ship, not a ton, but something that gives solo players some advantage. If it were the same speed, any other ship could just destroy it easily. Especially with cannons being machine guns.

  • @Cpt-Peach-Beard @Pr0toz0ne

    so already a couple of interesting posts bringing up the same subject.

    i agree with you both, but what are your willing to risk in order to have this speed?

    Maneuverability+speed+firepower is a very strong combo. so my thoughts are risking firepower because i still want more control and speed to escape. i'm even willing to have no cannons on the ship if that's fair. maybe even just mounted swivel guns (mounted guns that dont do direct damage to hulls but are accurate and have a lot of damage)

  • It could be faster for escaping but slower in combat, the sails are usually mostly up during ship battles. So if the small ship want's to engage it would be an easier target to hit, but if it wants to run it can. It could help if they moved the ladders to the front of the ship so the solo player could have an extra second to react to boarders. Maybe also move all the crates closer to each other so the solo player has to spend less time collecting ammo/bananers/planks/balls

  • @mysticdragon297

    As long as it is balanced well with the other ships, then I see no issues in giving you your dream ship.

    I would love to see as many different ships in the game as possible, ranging from one man ships all the way up to eight man ships( or even more). As well as variants for each size class, for example a four man galleon style ship with less cannons and resource storage but more manoeuvrability and speed( as well as all kinds of variants for different size crews).

    The key is making all the ships balanced with each other.

  • @seedy-platypus said:

    As long as it is balanced well with the other ships...

    Hard for the devs to fix why ships arn't balanced: player incompetence skill

  • @admiral-tweedle

    Balanced on paper, in terms of trading off various advantages and disadvantages.

    I know player skill comes into play out in the world, it is the ultimate unknown variable.

  • I posted a thread about this a while back. I proposed a skiff or outrigger specifically catering to solo pve:

    Upsides:
    Can't be boarded while occupied
    Fast
    Highly manouverable
    Can be beached
    Easily hidden
    Can sail right up to larger ships for boarding

    Downsides
    No cannons
    No repairs
    Vulnerable to storms
    Very limited storage for supplies
    Space for only 1 or 2 items of loot.

    Without these downsides the ship is a lethal weapon. But with them a solo player can PVE with reasonable confidence that they'll be left alone. And the brave can PVP using stealth tactics.

  • I feel like something like this would only have 1 cannon. Either a forward mounted cannon or one on a single side, leaving it unable to defend from the other. High maneuverability would allow you to turn to guard it but it would still leave an opening if a ship gets on your bad side.

  • I would suggest:

    • No anchor
    • One front facing cannon
    • As fast as the sloop, but even better handling
    • No deck below, just a small cabin in the back (or maybe only the deck)
    • Maybe no barrels, so only the ressources you are carrying
  • This would mark you as easy prey. With the sloop, the possibility of a duo operation might be enough to give would-be attackers pause.

  • @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    Space for only 1 or 2 items of loot.

    Nope, bad idea. I couldn't do a single merchant voyage with out sailing multiple times to the outpost. Half of the skeleton wanted posters have more then 2 per isle and did you ever get a treasure hunt with 8+ chest on the same island? Plus, you couldn't pick up any random loot at all if you want to do any voyage.

    It's not like it's impossible to play that way, but it only would frustrate solo PVE players. Almost nobody would use this ship.
    Would be wasted manpower.

  • @crimsonraziel said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    Space for only 1 or 2 items of loot.

    Nope, bad idea. I couldn't do a single merchant voyage with out sailing multiple times to the outpost. Half of the skeleton wanted posters have more then 2 per isle and did you ever get a treasure hunt with 8+ chest on the same island? Plus, you couldn't pick up any random loot at all if you want to do any voyage.

    It's not like it's impossible to play that way, but it only would frustrate solo PVE players. Almost nobody would use this ship.
    Would be wasted manpower.

    There has to be a downside to it.

  • Speed, give me speed.
    And no cannon

  • @mysticdragon297 exeptc in combat sloop is alreafy a beast machine soloing with some
    Pratice so prefer a 3 man or 6 man boat my problem is i sold game to so
    Many friends talking about my pirate story then now dont have enought room on boat to bring them all ^^

  • Something like this?

    0_1523868977678_3061427c-fb3c-428a-b5b1-65922abe76f9-image.png

  • @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    There has to be a downside to it.

    Then think of a better one. Making the game frustrating, wasting manpower for something almost nobody will use and/or potentially turn off newbies is counterproductive.

    And it's not like this was the only downside.
    @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    Downsides
    No cannons
    No repairs
    Vulnerable to storms
    Very limited storage for supplies

    Edit: fixed messed up quote

  • @mysticdragon297 I've seen one from Rare concept artist, it had steering wheel at the front, one bigger cannon in the back and it had some kind of baloon instead of sail

  • I like the exposed deck. Would make it very interesting.

    I would suggest no large cannons and instead go for upwind speed.

    However to go smaller than the current sloop I think will be difficult. I would go similar size but alternate design as above.

    I find the sloop fine and fun solo though, so this is gravy really. I would rather see a 3 man ship between the Sloop and the Galleon.

  • love the idea

  • I was thinking something more like this
    0_1523874547319_2437a536-db9b-4649-ace9-ca26bf8c3b3b-image.png

    I'd still limit the amount of loot you can store - the increased speed and manoeuvrability will make up for it.

  • I'm not a fan of the no repair comment made before though.
    If there's a lucky (laser aimed) skeleton shot off a random island it's a bit ouch

  • I would love a super fast, very small "raft" with a tiny sail and no cannons. Room for 5 - 6 chests that are visible to anyone. It can't be repaired and would sink with 2 or 3 shots. But you gotta catch it first. Would be fun and hilarious to see. :)

  • When the 21st century dlc pack drops we will probably get rubber Somali strike boats.

  • The only way I could see a smaller ship is if it had a super fast anchor and is slightly faster then all ships and has no weapons but no more maneuverable then a sloop. But really thats just a sloop with no guns so what would the point even be.

  • i don't see a need really. the sloop is already pretty easy to solo with. what we need is something between the sloop and galleon

  • @crimsonraziel said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    Space for only 1 or 2 items of loot.

    Nope, bad idea. I couldn't do a single merchant voyage with out sailing multiple times to the outpost. Half of the skeleton wanted posters have more then 2 per isle and did you ever get a treasure hunt with 8+ chest on the same island? Plus, you couldn't pick up any random loot at all if you want to do any voyage.

    It's not like it's impossible to play that way, but it only would frustrate solo PVE players. Almost nobody would use this ship.
    Would be wasted manpower.

    Have you ever tried putting all your loot in one spot? Makes it really hard for boarders to take your best piece fast. It's not possible in this game to limit the amount of loot you can take since every piece of loot clips through eachother. The only problem I would see with limited space is feeding the right pig when it gets hungry or not dying to the snakes you're hauling since they would all be stacked on top of eachother.

  • 0_1523892154782_2abf0ed4-6181-4291-8638-292f6532283b-image.png

    :P

  • @mysticdragon297 Personally I don't think a solo ship should be a priority. the Devs clearly stated this is a community game where you play with people. When you launch to go solo it warns you that it is perilous. It seems like a waste of resources to cater the the few that refuse to party up with people. If anything they should be working on a middle ship for 3-4 players between the galleon and the sloop. This game was never intended to be a solo game, the mechanics punish you for this when you are on an island you cannot watch your ship, it's just better with people and friends.

  • @niennaneryam sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @crimsonraziel said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mmountain sagte in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    Space for only 1 or 2 items of loot.

    Nope, bad idea. I couldn't do a single merchant voyage with out sailing multiple times to the outpost. Half of the skeleton wanted posters have more then 2 per isle and did you ever get a treasure hunt with 8+ chest on the same island? Plus, you couldn't pick up any random loot at all if you want to do any voyage.

    It's not like it's impossible to play that way, but it only would frustrate solo PVE players. Almost nobody would use this ship.
    Would be wasted manpower.

    Have you ever tried putting all your loot in one spot? Makes it really hard for boarders to take your best piece fast. It's not possible in this game to limit the amount of loot you can take since every piece of loot clips through eachother. The only problem I would see with limited space is feeding the right pig when it gets hungry or not dying to the snakes you're hauling since they would all be stacked on top of eachother.

    If @mmountain meant it that way, this "downside" would be neglectable to the point of not being worth mentioning at all, except it would indeed really mess up merchant quests.
    So what's being achieved by this?

    Btw, how should this ship with only 1-2 spots to place chests actually look like? Even the skipper's cabin on a sloop has more spots.

    But from what is written, I'm pretty sure it was about limiting to 1-2 items. It's not like the intension/idea behind it is bad, but it would cause more issues than it solves.

    Yes, I know how to stack treasure. Did you ever stack piggies on Nagini and a powder keg on deck?

  • @ve111a said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mysticdragon297 Personally I don't think a solo ship should be a priority. the Devs clearly stated this is a community game where you play with people. When you launch to go solo it warns you that it is perilous. It seems like a waste of resources to cater the the few that refuse to party up with people. If anything they should be working on a middle ship for 3-4 players between the galleon and the sloop. This game was never intended to be a solo game, the mechanics punish you for this when you are on an island you cannot watch your ship, it's just better with people and friends.

    I'd be really interested to see the analytics on the number of solo players. When I want to play super casual I play solo.

  • @mmountain said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @ve111a said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mysticdragon297 Personally I don't think a solo ship should be a priority. the Devs clearly stated this is a community game where you play with people. When you launch to go solo it warns you that it is perilous. It seems like a waste of resources to cater the the few that refuse to party up with people. If anything they should be working on a middle ship for 3-4 players between the galleon and the sloop. This game was never intended to be a solo game, the mechanics punish you for this when you are on an island you cannot watch your ship, it's just better with people and friends.

    I'd be really interested to see the analytics on the number of solo players. When I want to play super casual I play solo.

    thats funny I'm the complete opposite. Typically when i play solo its to kill time waiting for my friends so I practice my pvp skills and go ham on playing a pirate. I'll chase down a galleon and smash into or drop a barrel off for a sloop full well intended to be sunk but to get that practice I need for when the time counts and I have a crew and a lot of Booty.

  • @ve111a said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mmountain said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @ve111a said in would a ship smaller than the sloop even be possible? a "true" solo ship?:

    @mysticdragon297 Personally I don't think a solo ship should be a priority. the Devs clearly stated this is a community game where you play with people. When you launch to go solo it warns you that it is perilous. It seems like a waste of resources to cater the the few that refuse to party up with people. If anything they should be working on a middle ship for 3-4 players between the galleon and the sloop. This game was never intended to be a solo game, the mechanics punish you for this when you are on an island you cannot watch your ship, it's just better with people and friends.

    I'd be really interested to see the analytics on the number of solo players. When I want to play super casual I play solo.

    thats funny I'm the complete opposite. Typically when i play solo its to kill time waiting for my friends so I practice my pvp skills and go ham on playing a pirate. I'll chase down a galleon and smash into or drop a barrel off for a sloop full well intended to be sunk but to get that practice I need for when the time counts and I have a crew and a lot of Booty.

    That sounds like super casual to me - killing time, the odd 10-15 minutes - not beholden to anyone else schedule?

  • @mmountain lol most people don't consider pvp chill I like you lol.

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