[Mega Thread] - Death Cost

  • “We just took a vote...we don’t want the change.”

  • I think it's a good idea if and only if respawn mechanics were fixed and there was a clear understanding of what "avoidable" means.

  • @khaleesibot I don't think the death tax should affect players that haven't sunk a ship or killed another player. Rather, have players that engage other pirates have some level of infamy that causes them to lose gold upon death. This creates a risk vs reward angle to attacking other ships.
    The more players they kill the higher their death tax. This could also potentially lead to a bounty system for taking out an infamous pirate. As far as lore it could be justified since the Ferryman does not want to release evil souls back on to the seas for free. Upon re-spawn infamy should be reset.

  • You should have imported the hundreds of posts from other threads where people already voiced their opinions. There were like two threads with 5-10 pages of people complaining, as well as other smaller threads.

    Seriously though, this is a terrible idea.

    What problem does it solve?

    Camping? Nope. People will camp MORE knowing they are sucking your gold away.

    "Pirating?" First of all, not a problem- the game is about pirates. Like camping, it only encourages people to KoS to either avoid their own demise or get some laughs at the expense of others.

    What does it harm?

    Exploration. I'm going to be a lot less inclined to search the ocean blue or ship wrecks if I'm going to lose 100 gold for being eaten by a shark or more for drowning because "I should have known better."

    Pvp. This game HAS pvp in it. You can't say that it isn't a core feature of the game. Death costs simply encourage even more people to turn tail and run away- which then makes people want to camp because they had to work so hard to hunt you down and probably won't catch something else for a while.

    Socialization. You think I'm going to let you stab me in the back and burn my gold? Nope.

    Fun. I already worry I'm going to lose my supplies, voyage, chests, and progress(time) when I go ashore. Now I have to worry I'm going to have the gold taken from my pockets. Yeah, that's fun.

    I love this game. I have defended tons of changes and ideas that the developers have brought in from alpha to beta to release. I have played this game tons in testing and since release. I'm not going to sit here and threaten to cancel my pre-order but let's be honest. How many new players are going to want to play this game if they get camped by the rich well-established players and forced to lose all their gold? How many newbies will stick around when they worked h*****n that voyage to earn 100 gold, then slip off a cliff and die just to lose it.

  • The cost for death is time spent away from the game, losing your treasure, etc. Adding a death cost in gold will only hurt PvP, which is a bad idea with the current lack of other content. It also hurts the fun of blowing your crew mates up.

    Infinitely better ideas:

    1. Respawn player further and further away from place of death
    2. Require tasks to be completed on ferry, something I believe was already in a very early build of the game.
    3. Increase # of tasks for consecutive deaths.
    4. Add a cost option to skip the tasks, players can decide what's worth more; their time or money
  • I think it's a terrible idea that completely misses the point of the respawn issue. A respawn cost sucks the fun out of combat when you die, punishes players who are at a disadvantage and will generally steer people away from combat instead of towards it. If the issue is respawns make fights unfair, then include an incremental respawn timer instead. Another issue is ships spawning too close to where they went down. This also doesn't solve this. Instead ships should spawn further away, ESPECIALLY if they go down at a skull fort.

    The ultimate result of gold cost on death doesn't solve any problems, other than punishing people further for death. Death currently can result in a battle tipping towards the survivor, in fact more often than not even my 2 man sloop can take out a galleon with the existing timer. Death costing gold will also prevent people from just screwing around and having fun outside of PvP. I really can't think of how this fits with the vision of exciting player journeys and overall fun.

  • I think Death Cost is a great idea, but they need to fix ship re-spawns first. I'm glad they fixed the mermaid problem (endlessly respawning), but ship-respawns need to happen much further away from where the ship sinks.

    Every time I sink a ship, they're always re-spawn at a nearby island somewhere nearby. I'd like to see ship re-spawns always jump to a different biome.

  • “I don’t care if it only costs one dog treat when you die! It’s a concept that does not fit the concept of this game...it is a negative!”

  • Just increase the time one is on the ferry of the damn. Gold cost is a terrible idea, I hate it. Some players will just spawn kill to no end, that's not fair! @Rare-Employee have you guys even been reading the Forum posts? (Actually reading it NOT skimming through them). Only the minority of the community want a death penalty, they just keep repeating the posts. Most people don't even acknowledge the thread.

  • No mention of giving us any gold as an apology for Rocky servers at launch. Instead Rare finds a way to take gold away. LOL

  • @khaleesibot I personaly don’t mind losing my gold, but I feel like it won’t change anything except make griefers more aware to kill people just to make them lose gold. I think that a longer respawn time should be implemented.

  • This is not the time to implement such a thing. There are alot more things that needs to be done to let this game survive the first three months.

  • I don't think Death Cost is the correct direction to go.

    Personally, I have no issue with paying gold but I play the game a ridiculous amount right now and limit the amount of times I actually die. I have a ton of friends who play and fool around, they often die to explosive barrel suicide runs, sharks, falling and drowning while exploring. I think death cost might deter them from doing some of the things they have enjoyed. Once there is a penalty for dying, they will take the game much more serious which I don't think is the correct solution.

  • We don't need more death penalty to solve anything. If Rare is trying to prevent camping then once a ship has no remaining players alive and an enemy player on-board, make them respawn at a new ship somewhere else. Alternatively, add a bounty system of some sort. I'm fine with the game how it is for death/pvp and I think there are much more pressing improvements that Rare could be making.

  • @khaleesibot I really disagree with the suggestion of taxing people for dying. I believe this will put off players from taking part in emergant gameplay. It will discourage new players and eventually result in player churn. Please reconsider this plan and perhaps consider alternative options with the community. You sold the dream of doing something different but this plan just follows the GTA path and results in people feeling penalised for not having skills to fight off attackers or being too scared to play fully in the world you have created using the mechanics that you have provided. If just shooting yourself onto an island and missing suddenly costs you money and all the other opportunities that we have today to test and play in the world have a risk of cost to them, then suddenly it becomes a very boring place.

  • Death Cost isn't a solution.
    -Weakness/Vulnerability/Distance respawn (away from your ship), would be better.

    Coin is hard earned, it won't do anything but discourage the player. Multiple deaths can occur from a reckless crew, or from grievers which can be out of your hands. LOSING TREASURE is enough, but a monetary penalty on top of that? Ouch.

    I know me, I know how I game. If that happens during a session I'm only going to feel salty and logout.

  • Already said by everyone but I HATE this idea. Implementing this would just make people rage even more when they get spawnkilled/when a bug occurs/when 10s skellies shoot you with their OP accuracy and sometimes through rocks and textures...


    Tell me if I'm wrong, but your objective is to reduce griefing and people carelessly going into battle to probably just die.
    The answer to this problem is incremental respawn duration.
    For example, let's say that I die and respawn after 20s. If I die another time within, let's say, 5min, my next respawn will take 45s. Another time, 90s. Then 2min. At two minutes you'll likely be more careful upon respawning, and if you get spawnkilled, you'll scuttle your ship.

  • We all have a goal in this, to become pirate legend. This cannot be achieved by players who are deliberately killing for the sake of making everyone mad, if anything this achieves the opposite effect. Now I think sinking ships and plundering chests is a fine idea and drives the point of piracy. I have had my ship sunken twice at an outpost while I watched from the shore because I knew nothing bad would happen to me as I already turned in my chests. Adding this death penalty would ruin the game because then you would be not only encouraging greifers but then who would even bother with the Order of Souls? There's too much risk for not enough reward, you'd most likely be losing money rather than gaining unless you play like a coward or have a 4 man team on you. With the in game items already costing as much as they do already this would make it darn near impossible to buy the items we want and not look like we have either the Black Dog pack (Which I never got by the by) and someone who did not achieve anything.

    Rare I implore you to not implement this system and mayhaps focus on a bounty system for those who provoke ships, now I do realize that this would be difficult especially because you'd be taxing players acting in self defense but mayhaps it can be refined. Until then the game is fine as is with some minor hiccups. I'd also recommend invulnerability frames, for a short period of time after dying you gain 5 seconds of invincibility to revenge kill the people spawn camping I've never dealt with that problem myself but according to the forums it's a glaring issue.

  • @khaleesibot

    how about rewards for a kill instead of taking the money out of our pockets ??? sorry

  • Death cost isn’t bad because the fact that it takes gold away, it’s bad because it makes you be more cautious and make the game more serious. This will make the game not as fun, even if it takes like 3 gold away.

  • @beanmariocow

    I would think voicing our opinions would be enough to show the dislike for this implementation. I doubt giving you tons of rep is necessarily the way to go :)

    More people need to reply to this thread, even if they replied to the other threads which got shut down.

  • id prefer a cost to recover your ship over a cost after dying.

  • Dead cost is the worst idea I've ever heard. The real problem with the game is the respawning system, fix it.

  • @azbat360 said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Hey Joe & Mike what happened to your Gold being safe once we turned our spoils into the traders? Don't make me go back find every video & timestamp where you said this.

    Please dig them up ohh Pioneer. I would love to see the videos and the response/reasoning for this knee-jerf addition.

    If this wasnt in your plans at launch, don’t add something that impacts the only reward currency in game.

  • @hobosloth28 said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    id prefer a cost to recover your ship over a cost after dying.

    That’s much better, but still terrible. It takes the fun away, and makes the game more serious.

  • Definitely don't see this change going down very well for any side of the communities playstyle. I still think changing the ship respawn distance would do the job gold costs would do, except alleviate the extreme frustration from losing actual pocket gold.

    Thank you for the megathread though, I always like these collective thoughts in one place.

  • @pontxolo said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Dead cost is the worst idea I've ever heard. The real problem with the game is the respawning system, fix it.

    The respawning system is completly 100% fine the way it is.

  • @azbat360 said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Hey Joe & Mike what happened to your Gold being safe once we turned our spoils into the traders? Don't make me go back find every video & timestamp where you said this.

    Seriously. If they said that and they're going back on it- what's next, cosmetic/progression micro-transactions? Lootboxes?

  • It’s not the loss of gold that creates the problem. It’s the idea of adding a punitive result that in many cases seems unfair. The “feeling” this game first created was that it was “fun” to play even with the “dangers” you could face. This, however, does not fit that concept. It “takes” something away which has not happened before. Even just one gold still leaves a bad taste. This is not GTA or Battlefield, and if we are lucky never will be.

  • @beanmariocow yea true, and it would keep away new players even more becuase when they get sunk in the first hour and have no money they'll have to wait 3 days in the shallows for sea turtles.

  • @deadtree-alive said in [Mega Thread] - Death Cost:

    Perhaps for death to skeletons, sharks, or snakes, but deaths by falling, players, or cannons should not be punished.

    Other way around, of this were a good idea in general. And it isn’t.

  • @aeekto I think you may have failed to take into account the creativity of people.

    There is no way to accurately determine who is the aggressor. For instance people could bait others into firing first and then blow them away.

    It’ll basically completely get rid of PvP OR become a “swing first bro!” Situation.

  • Death is already a cool mechanic on the game, maybe can add some tweaks (some already added by tying the spawn to the boat).

    But a deathtax is not fun in any way, dont want to fear for the earnings while luring a crowd of shadow skellies to light them up, so the crew can shoot them and become the sacrifice, or doing fun strategies involving dying like that.

  • The developers need to focus on put some content in this game, charge players for dying should be not a priority.

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