[Mega Thread] - Balancing PvE and PvP to ensure a great experience for everyone - Discussion

  • As referenced in this announcement, any and all discussion and opinions on PvE versus PvP balance and preferences can be posted here.

    As a reminder, the Pirate Code is more than just guidelines, but the rules of the community and game that we expect all members to abide by when participating on the forums. Any member who fails to abide by the code may find themselves put in the brig, or removed from the community.

    Thank you!

    The Original Mega Thread on PvE versus PvP Discussion for Reference:
    (https://www.seaofthieves.com/forum/topic/29120/mega-thread-pve-versus-pvp-discussion)

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  • This game has so much to give, but it is completely reduced to PVP. That somehow ruins the whole game. Since the end of the last Beta i do a lot of PVP, if I see a ship I try to hunt it down... well it is beta, I play in the evening for around 1 hour and do not care a lot, just want to have some fast fun. But even if I sink tons of ships down to the ground it is not quite as much fun like treasure hunting and questing. But when I try to quest, it always comes to PVP somehow. Looking around a island only for 5 minutes and my ship gets shot from somewhere. If there are players who don`t want to PVP all the time or are just not good in it, they get (Mod Edited)... sorry... will not buy this game and invest money. The PVP should be reduced to a possible minimum, if the game wants to be attractive for the future. Better get a lot of huge difficult quests, some big bosses (Kraken, Skeleton King, ghost ship, and so on... ) to hunt with a team and also a lot to do for the single players. And absolutely make a mode for hardcore PVP like an arena or faction fights or whatever. Never had a good game like this since years, somehow remembers me to the good old Monkey Island games. This is a Diamond but keep grinding it. Thanks so far for all the good work. I hope I will have a lot of fun sailing the seas without griefers.

  • @ray-threepwood this post makes alot of sense, i have no problem fighting ship to ship or defending myself on a treasure island but when you get farmed for an hour at a outpost it sucks lol, me and my friends had a cool situation today, some small boat was getting chased for ages by a big one eventualy he ran towards us waved and we destroyed the other ship he bowed down to us and thanked us and we let him go his merry way

  • Yea I would love more pve

    Edit: a lot of people are telling me that pve would ruin the game. I just want to make it clear that I love pvp, and I enjoy it a tun! Especially in this game and how it’s machanics work. I just think the game needs a bit more of a challenge when not facing other pirates :)
    Thanks!

  • I've only just found out the scale test (which is currently producing a lot of pvp related complaints) can be played for free. If that is the case then it should be emphasised here on the forums a bit better because the free to play community on xbox is terrible. I've only played Fornite myself, but I can say without doubt it the most pathetic, childish and pointless multiplayer atmoshpere i've ever experienced. People need to consider that when the game releases, it won't be free, and all of these scoundrels will not be playing it.

  • As I've said before, when you login, the game should ask you for your preferred PvP frequency. It's set at 15 minutes or so right now from what I've read. Allow us to pick "often" or "seldom", etc. If you're going to require us to attack others, at least give us the ability to pick the frequency - the servers appear to already be set up for something like this.

  • As i stated yesterday, i love all the game except the PVP.
    Id be really happy if you could chose "PVP Server" or "PVE Server" when joining the game and on "PVE Server", you cannot attack or be attacked by other players.
    Could be chosen each time you start a game, so noone gets denied PVP action, but a lot of people can prevent frustration.

    That would make the game much more enjoyable for me.

  • I can tell by the pvp votes that this game will be ruined by the same crowd that makes gta online impossible to play or makes ark survival a grief fest... the pubg battle royale crowd wants every game to be like it..... nonstop pvp battling... sorry but i was interested in this game for pve questing and sailing together with a crew finding treasure etc... i dont find being relentlessly hunted non stop and attacked fun....

    This will become sea of griefers...

  • @axul81
    I love everything about this game except the pvp. I love the water and sailing digging for treasure working with a crew to solve riddles and questing.... not losing everything non stop because of trolling griefers who want everygame to be pubg

  • Yay this thread has returned, it does seem to make its rounds after each play session.

    To answer the questions that don't seem to have been asked here yet but undoubtedly will be as they were the last time this mega thread arrived.

    SAFE ZONE = NO
    SPILT SERVERS (pvp/pve or big/small ships) = NO
    NOTORIETY = not overly talked about but hit or miss to me, not that bothered but can see the bonus of knowing another ships likely intention.
    FLAGS = as communication would be nice but it would be abused.
    SAFE MODE = NO by most. Personally if you can use it as a passive mode to avoid pvp the counter would need to be that you cannot interact with any turn-in-able items. No reward if there is no risks, its only fair.

    Thats the main ones i can recall.

    Personal request, as before, please change the voyage items to have a fixed value and that value is then equally divisible by the crew. This would counter the risk reward for soloing and open decisions about future larger crews. (do you really want to divide your earnings by 6 or 8)

  • I think there needs to be more of a reward for PvP, like if you sink a ship, some of their stores should float up to the surface, (cannonballs, bananas, planks). As well as the treasure that was on their ship should go down with the boat and get left behind on the bottom of the ocean for a bit after the sinking. So crew members can dive down and search for sunken treasure.

  • Leaving my mark for the PvE lovers. Let those who want to PvP just play together in a dense ocean, with lots of player contact ... but let us others, who just wont buy and play the game without PvE mode have just that. No need for safe zones .. just group the players by their will .. let us choose our play style via option let us choose ourselves, with what like-minded people we want to enter this great game ... pvp or pve just like everyone likes it...

  • @languidant50402 said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    Leaving my mark for the PvE lovers. Let those who want to PvP just play together in a dense ocean, with lots of player contact ... but let us others, who just wont buy and play the game without PvE mode have just that. No need for safe zones .. just group the players by their will .. let us choose our play style via option let us choose ourselves, with what like-minded people we want to enter this great game ... pvp or pve just like everyone likes it...

    Your idea is a great suggestion. Something needs to be done to seperate the players who want to actually do quests and pve and those that WANT nonstop combat..... i dont understand what is so wrong with that or why rare refuses to comment on this massive issue....

  • Not exactly on point but I feel like its heavily related to alot of the issues of pve/pvp - respawning currently sucks and is the biggest cause of frustration. Having a ship spawn an island or two away is nothing but grief for either the defeated or the victorious. Either crews will be seeking revenge or griefing the respawned ship. Mermaid mechanic is also broken with the infinite respawn.

    PVE servers will ruin that the core aspect of the game, that anything can happen at any time in this shared world. Same for safe zones, thats not what the game is about at all. That said its not about just pvp either but alot of current complaints are focused around pvp because lets face it, thats all there really is to do atm whilst theres no real reason to do the gold quests once you got the few items you want from whats currently available. On top of that alot of complaints I see can easily be resolved with experience or lack of it in many cases and not knowing what to look for.

    I think its an awkward situation to be discussing the balance of the two when for one, coming across ships is currently broken in the stress tests (either too many or too little) and isnt representative of release. Two, the fact that the content is heavily limited atm meaning theres really nothing to do but pvp for some people. This isnt a fair representation of the game I dont think any drastic changes should be made around something that isnt a true representation.

    Also im starting to think the solo play selection should have an extra "arr ye sure?" warning attached because so many people are picking that as a starting point and having a terrible time when its a mode that even keeps pioneers on their toes. People to seem to think its the place to learn whereas in reality its the games most difficult mode.

  • I think the problem right now comes with how easy it is for another crew to just go and sink your ship without thinking about it once.

    There's not really much incentive for attackers to board another ship, everyone is saying this game is all about Risk vs Reward but there's really no risk right now. You can almost instantly spawn back with your ship and you then you can mindlessly run it into another ship until you get results (I've had this happen to me multiple times).

    I want to be able to talk to other crews, I want to be able to share adventures and trade cargo with other crews too. Yes, there are some friendly crews out there but a lot of them are growing quite defensive and attacking anyone who gets near them.

    I also think cargo needs to lose value if its been exposed to water, that way if your looking for loot it encourages boarding. When people in my crew have been out playing with PvP in mind, I never seem to hear any hesitance in people before they decide to attack.

    Just something to stop 49/50 interactions being shoot on sight, its not healthy for a game so deeply rooted in coop and interaction to have such a lack of cooperation between crews.

  • I honestly find what everyone is complaining about fun. The fact is it’s a pirate game what did people expect? There’s no safe zone in the pirate world. The fact is you have to loot your treasure return it do questing while battling off every other pirate looking to take yo booty, lol. That’s what makes this game great. If it’s reduced down to a bunch of people who are strictly doing solo server stuff because their scared of losing their loot. Where does that leave the people who enjoy looting other people. Nothing to do because everyone is doing solo stuff. Unless they make it so you straight up can’t earn gold at all in a private pve server. Than that would be balanced. Or some people just need more practice #git good

  • @axul81 That would put a wall between the community.
    You cannot deny pvp.
    Sure it needs some fixes like respawn times.
    Pvp is in the core of the game.

  • Well it's fine to kill killing that I do not meet it logically I mean see in boat and go for no reason and kill him and kill him for no reason and more than once that is not to let play is better to lower a bit the pvp and That one many times nothing alone in a small boat and comes a big boat with more guns and more players and they come and kill you and you do not have any treasures and nothing I think that you would have to do more missions for all of you, individually and in groups since the most like to play in groups besides talking about groups I was yesterday in the game between all good to a crew but they arrived and they locked me in the prison of the boat for no reason and that helped and they did not even let me play I had to leave the game and start again I saw that I had to do it three times after some guys killed me more than 10 times in a row and they appeared and they killed me they saw me and they killed me and they did not let me play calmly and another thing yesterday I disappeared the map I had in my inventory what I saw a few v Then I did not have it, it got erased, I prefer to play alone without a crew on a small boat and with a group there are times that they do not know how to play or they just walk around like clowns they could put more sea creatures sharks big octopuses that want to swim your boat and have to fight with that creature and on the islands could put more because the map if it looks great but seeing the bush has limits and comes up by there could be no cities where you could improve your boat put more guns better if for gold and because things better rudders and carroseria butt and butt the game if I love but pvp not much because people abuse a lot comes and kills and kills or just enters and kills some arrive enter for 1 or two hours to pure kill people who try to go for a mission like that is bad for that you can talk and can talk by microphone or chat as there are many Spaniards who are kinder than those who speak English and kill for killing them l or talk first or make a deal example yesterday I met some and as my boat was small and I was alone so I could not against 4 alone so they said give me a treasure and you go friend and I gave them one and they let me go the same could make two classes one of pirates vs navy and there are still teams to kill and kill but being pirates and the other pirate would not lower the pvp a bit and also pirate vs pirates can not steal each other or their treasures marine guardian also has the same missions to go for treasures and deliver them but they are going to look for them since the pirates are supposed to bury the treasures and then they will look for them and sell them

  • They could also put an option where you can change the language if you want English is English but if you want Spanish Spanish since I speak Spanish and I do not speak much English they are not good and it affects me since I have to go translating everything into Spanish to play if they could do that favol so the game would fill more people who speak different languages ​​with their options so they understand better the game could put a type port where one can improve the boat put more guns and other things to your boat as well of 0 all the days bored and climb again level I do not know if this is going to be with an account or not equal one could have his own boat be the captain of his boat and have the option of being alone on your boat or with people example as the small boat I play well with the small boat not with the big one since more players are made as very heavy only some clowns walk and they do not cope in anything

  • @mzargothekhajit said in [Mega Thread] - PvE versus PvP Discussion:

    @axul81 That would put a wall between the community.
    You cannot deny pvp.
    Sure it needs some fixes like respawn times.
    Pvp is in the core of the game.

    So what you say is the way you enjoy to play the game should be the only way and thus PVE Servers are bad. Sounds pretty ignorant to me.
    I and a lot of others stated they would pay for the game if we could play in an environment without griefing, cause it would mean fun instead of frust for us.

    So what do you think, is it better to let BOTH of us have fun and thus beeing customers or just YOU?

  • I'm a fan of having a PVE option. I won't be buying the game without one (and neither will the rest of my family)

    There is nothing the game gives you that is more incentive to attack other players than the sheer satisfaction of killing other players. No amount of in-game tweaking to make it "less appealing" is going to stem the tide (which will grow now that your Beta is not exclusive) of players who get their kicks from making the game a frustrating ordeal for exploring, map-reading treasure hunting fun seekers.

    And to all those who say "do scouting, be careful, have a lookout", sure. That's fine. How many hours would you like me to spend skirting the island I'm looking for, leaving, circling, coming back, fleeing, being chased and then wondering if the hand-in island is going to be the same annoying timesink?

    I've iterated and reiterated why countless times in my thread, so I'm simply going to re-paste the "why not" bit here because it's the only question I'm not getting a response to (and I think we can all see why).

    I've been waiting years for the release of what looked really promising at E3. I'm not going to play it now, and neither will (obviously a fair number of) like minded people. It's not a monumental jump from what they have already to give a PVE option, so why can't I point out that they'll get a wider audience if they do?

    And why does everyone care so much? Either the PVE players will not play, or they'll get their own servers and play there (and spend money on the game so the devs have more incentive to add more features, which benefits everyone). The ONLY reason I can see is that existing players are concerned that this will somehow depopulate the PVP - and that anyone left in PVP will be people who WANT to play PVP. The only conceivable reason for this "no, you're enjoying it wrong" argument is that you WANT there to be people in the PVP arena that don't want to be there.

  • Alot of you makes it sound like only either PvP or PvE is possible, guys, you can do both - and if you like PvE, then get more observant, it's not like other ships just teleport in next to you - If you do more spotting, and in general are more carefull (Turning of lanterns, having a designated spotter and scout islands from the sea before landfall) you can have a great experience, no matter if you are solo or a crew.

    Of course there is a lot of focus on the PvP side of the game right now, as much of the PvE has not been added, and will not be added untill the game releases, yes you can get some booty and turn it in, buy some stuff, and thats fine - its just not enough for everyone, please remember this is a shared world game, which means others will be around, and they will enjoy the game in their way, which might differ from yours.

    Getting chest and killing skeletons is adventure, but so is fighting on the open sea agains other than an AI - Adventure game means both.

  • @axul81 Alright don't get your pretty white cloak dirty mate.
    Pve servers are bad because they will SPLIT the community in half,hard truth cuts both ways.
    There needs to be a mechanic against griefing and that mechanic is adding bounties to the game,not putting a wall infront of all of our problems.
    I am the ignorant?don't try to cater it so it can meet Your standards.
    In no way i promote griefing,in no way i promote pve servers.

  • Also, to all the people here talking about strict PvE servers, please consider that if combat was like ~1/8 chance of happening in your encounters, I don't think there would be anywhere near as much of a want for PvE servers.

    Because PvP exists isn't the problem, its the aggression lots of players have due to how easy it is.

  • @knuxor You should only get a PvE server where its impossible to become a Pirate Legend and where everything costs 100% more since you refuse to take risks.

    Oh and if you want to tell us that you and your family are not getting the game because you people don't like challenges, I have a proper response to you then.

    Here it is: I'm in a Battlefield clan and I talked with our members about Sea of Thieves. I made a fair bit of advertisement because I love the game for what it is and our interests are fairly similar. There are currently members and extended buddies outside of our clan that are playing RIGHT NOW! They're having a blast, sinking and thieving players left, right and center.

    Moral of the story? I approached many players that I know and respect with this game. I convinced 10+ players to get the game and/or try it out. They're loving it!

    If Rare caters to the lowest common denominator (You), it will hurt the game greatly but you don't care about that, don't you? Exactly! But we care because we play the game how it was supposed to be played and you're jumping in fairly late and you want to screw us over. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that people like you destroyed a former great franchise and it sucks heavily everytime it happens.

  • Just saying, i called it. The split the server chat has commenced lol.

    Ok so hard truth here guys, if your running pve where is your in game challenge? Currently the skellies are a breeze and if you do die, your a 60 second timer away from another try without consequence. If you are allowed to run this method over and over with no risk of a ship engagement or someone with ill intent on the horizon then what you'll have is a fixed fetch quest grind that gets you anything without implemented danger essentially granting you all over access from entery to legendary with no real risk.
    One, this would get old fast as it is just grinding for the endgame, no progression, no stories, no worries.
    Two, those who play on mixed servers have had to earn their way to where they are, to play with someone who just grinds in safety would feel insulting.
    Three, should anyone from the pve side choose to join a mixed server they'd have the repeate conversation about how they get picked on because they have no naval skills, having never needed to develop them.

    I probably sound like I'm trying to brush your concerns aside but the truth is that this topic repeats again and again with the same points repeated each time. The current high level of pvp is majorly down to no data continuity, if i don't get to keep anything why should i bother.

    All this said, those spawn points still need a review as spawn campers are allegedly a problem.

  • @cnt-thelrox
    A PVE option with drawbacks like you suggest sounds absolutely fine to me

    Please explain how more players in a separate server will hurt the game. You are strongly (and aggressively) asserting that this will destroy a great franchise, but you're skirting around the 'how'. I suspect, like I said, it's because it's more fun for you if there are players in the PVP that don't wan't to be. How else can this possibly hurt the game?

  • @knuxor It will hurt the game because it wouldn't be a diverse ingame community anymore. All PvE players would end up on a sheltered PvE server and all PvP players on a sweaty PvP server.

    I do enjoy both, PvPvE. I like chasing others and I love to get chased by a galleon.

    When those styles get seperated from one another, you will end up with strong contrasts. On PvE servers it will always be laughable easy and boring, and on PvP servers you'll end up in fights all the time without the possibility to really take a break.

    You seperate two essential parts of the Game that actually belong together.
    It wouldn't be healthy for the Game and the Community, that's for sure.

    There's an idea/solution flying around in this forum from time to time and there's no downside to it.
    Having the ability to place bounties on ships, or that players are being able to fill out a navy type of role.

    Its great for roleplayers and the general health of the community. It would add more to the experience in my opinion.

  • I'd say keep the servers as they are do not seperate but add a flag type of system hoist the skull and crossbones and you are PvP enabled have at it!

    Hoist a different flag and you are only PvE so people that want to solo or just have fun without the griefing can do their thing.

  • Man I gotta agree that once again a multiplayer game is getting the usual "We kill cause it's PvP hurdydurr". It be nice for once to have a community that doesn't always just reach for the cannon/gun and start shooting as you pass by with no intent. The game talks about "forming up with other potential ships" to sail together and "beware for they might just steal you blindly" cause they could secretly plan your death. So you go out and see another ship making you think "are they peacefull? are they hostile? should I just go or try to find out?" which is very interesting, but that whole depth is hanged cause the one thing that will happen is that the other ship is going to kill you the moment your in range, and unless you can manouvre like a boss or risk going into the storm, there's no way you can escape it.

    I at one point saw a ship getting shot by skeletons while the crew was out hunting for treasure. So I killed the skellies, repaired the ship and waited playing a tune. When I explained what happend they just shot me and sank my ship.

    I've met one nice crew in my entire beta experience, the rest just destroy your s**t. One solution I can think of is joining a guild/faction cause atleast then you know there are some allies out there aswell. But as far as I know the game isn't getting that.

    while playing alone can be absolutely relaxing even soothing with the right kind of weather, knots, and tunes, the moment other players get near you, you know that's the end of your voyage.

    I really hope PvP gets some sort of system that discourages people just blasting down every ship they spot. I don't mind if they held their guns up and robbed me, atleast that be interesting. but there needs to be something to change this or the game will be just as annoying as ARK and other survival games where the first thing you'll learn is that if your friends don't play it you might aswell quit because of all the scurvy b******s that will destroy/kill everything you had spent hours to build/collect just because they are bored.

  • I have a fairly simple idea:

    When a player is joining the game, they have the option of "difficulty level" which would be directly proportionate to the amount of players on a server.

    Easy: 1-4 players
    Medium: 4-8 players
    Hard: 8-12 players
    Insane: 20+ ? ? ?

    Also, I think quest rewards should be increased based on difficulty level.

    PS (I would only be on "insane" servers lol)

    Edit: I also wouldn't mind seeing a "white flag". This would not affect you in any way, but could serve as an indication to other players that you mean peace.

  • @darngt Not a good idea. This would remove the core reason to attack someone in the first place. Not being able to be a thief(!) anymore because someone can just go 'passive mode' and that's it.

    You would remove piracy with this idea.

  • Not sure i can edit my last post so ill add that on the flag idea there should be a cooldown (5-10 mins) maybe...

    I can see some griefer type people misuse the mechanic otherwise.

  • @shadowrodney What this game needs is the option to trade with other players, minigames/card games and the ability to be a bounty hunter or the ability to fill out the role of being the navy on the sea.

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