Time to clamp down on toxic playstyles!

@tesiccl said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@lordvader1o1 playing against players who use “the double gun” are not toxic because you’re not able to evade their higher skill in combat. If they’ve been abusive via text/voice chat during combat, then yes that’s toxic, but not if it’s just silent combat only.

"Higher skill"... again, you don't have skill for relying on a quick switch animation cancel exploit to get the upper hand.

@capt-greldik said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@wolfmanbush said in Time to remove double gunning!:

2 main reasons why you shouldn't negatively label entire groups of people over gameplay preference in a video game.

It's unkind to a degree that it causes mistreatment

It only makes it easy for people to dismiss you and your opinions. All substance gets lost in manipulative discussion where you paint people as an enemy over harmless preference.

People aren't toxic for gameplay preferences.

This. I was reading through the OP’s post until I learned that double gunners were the reason voice was disabled in arena, and apparently double gunners are also the reason anti-cheat was implemented, and apparently double gunners are inherently toxic.

Yes, not all but most are toxic or will resort to toxic gameplay such as spawn killing, trolling and chasing players over and over just because they can with no reward for doing so.

Not to mention that Safer Sea's was made because of the same kind of player.

@wolfmanbush said in Time to remove double gunning!:

2 main reasons why you shouldn't negatively label entire groups of people over gameplay preference in a video game.

It's unkind to a degree that it causes mistreatment

It only makes it easy for people to dismiss you and your opinions. All substance gets lost in manipulative discussion where you paint people as an enemy over harmless preference.

People aren't toxic for gameplay preferences.

Most of double gunners are toxic. There is no disputing this, they choose that loadout for the fast easy kill with little room for a fair fight. Most of these double gunners resort to toxic behaviour like spawn camping or trolling. Yesterday I saw a duo sloop chasing a fresh PS5 player across the map with a default shipset and clothing just so others believed they were new so they could get easy kills. They chased this fresh play literally from one side of the map to the other knowing they had no loot, they double gunned him down blunder and fire bombed his ship they proceeded to spawn camp him and emote spam his body. Once they finished they turned on me, I am an experienced player I was dead in seconds because I was met with the unfair OP exploit that is Double Gunning. I also had no loot, they spawn camped me until I sank. They then sailed to me when spotted a few islands away to do the whole thing again. So yes... They are toxic and I will label them as such.

@capt-greldik said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@lordvader1o1 said in Time to remove double gunning!:

I have played this game for years, 7 to my understanding because of a year in Pioneers too. I have seen the combat side of the game evolve drastically over that timeline and with the new weapons, Easy Anti-cheat and Hit Reg updates I was really hoping to see the end of the Toxic exploit and horrible meta that is double gunning. I love this game, LOVE IT! but the constant toxicity of some players is infuriating beyond anything. There is no skill needed in someone who relies on an animation cancelling quick switch exploit to get the upper hand on pirates who play the game on a normal level. Seeing crews hunt down and spawn kill others even when there are no loot rewards in return by using this kill confirmed exploit is just straight up angering and disgusting. Sea Of Thieves is supposed to be a fair, balanced play space that delivers an equal experience to everyone inclusive to everyone no matter their backgrounds or gameplay style. Being unfairly overpowered by these toxic exploiting individuals ruins the game as a whole. We had Arena Voice chat disabled because of these people, we had hit registration fixed and easy anti-cheat added to deal with these people, yet they still swarm the seas with their toxicity because they have been allowed to exist by allowing the use of 2 primary OP weapons. They have also been essentially encouraged to continue being toxic by making the Reapers curse only unlock at 75 rather than being levelled with Athena's at 100 (The incentive to grind for a curse for a shorter duration is higher)

Its time the Toxicity and unfair advantage is dealt with once and for all!

I ask for the implementation of a restriction on primary or heavy weapons. Allow the use for only one main gun (Sniper, blunder) with a single small/light weapon (Sword, pistol, throwing knifes, double pistol).

This is the only good way to assure this double gunning quick switch exploit is fixed. Because animation cancelling is still a big thing and its a massively unfair unbalanced toxic go to for the Meta. I am a very experienced Pirate and I struggle to face against this playstyle... not because of lack of skill... but because the only way to deal with that playstyle is to resort to playing like it too which I will not do because I want to play the game properly and not rely of toxicity and exploits to get the upper hand.

Ps: I suspect this post will be locked shortly due to all said toxic players defending the use of said exploit and my so called "lack of skill".

This post in itself is toxic, if you ask me. If the mods lock it it’ll be due to your own toxicity.

You just suggested that an anti cheat was created because people double gun, big false. You suggested that players who double gun are toxic, that sounds like an unjustified toxic insult to me. You suggested that arena voice was canceled because of double gunners, citation required.

Also, what is your definition of skill in SoT? Left click sword swing? I’m not saying that sword doesn’t require skill, and full disclaimer I use all weapon combinations (new weapons pending) depending on the situation, but are we really saying that sword takes more skill than double gunning?

ANY weapon combination takes some level of skill. When I say "double gunning" I use it as the label for the fast anim cancel exploit that toxic players use to switch from blunder to the sniper in fast succession. Not for just carrying both.

They made improvements to this switching from one to the other a while ago but still this switch anim cancel is still the go to for the toxic players.

And how am I toxic for calling out the main problem with this games combat? So I should just stay silent and let the toxicity continue? How is it supposed to be fixed if nobody tells Rare what the issue is because we are made to be quiet about it?

@capt-greldik said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@lordvader1o1 said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@wolfmanbush said in Time to remove double gunning!:

2 main reasons why you shouldn't negatively label entire groups of people over gameplay preference in a video game.

It's unkind to a degree that it causes mistreatment

It only makes it easy for people to dismiss you and your opinions. All substance gets lost in manipulative discussion where you paint people as an enemy over harmless preference.

People aren't toxic for gameplay preferences.

Most of double gunners are toxic. There is no disputing this, they choose that loadout for the fast easy kill with little room for a fair fight. Most of these double gunners resort to toxic behaviour like spawn camping or trolling. Yesterday I saw a duo sloop chasing a fresh PS5 player across the map with a default shipset and clothing just so others believed they were new so they could get easy kills. They chased this fresh play literally from one side of the map to the other knowing they had no loot, they double gunned him down blunder and fire bombed his ship they proceeded to spawn camp him and emote spam his body. Once they finished they turned on me, I am an experienced player I was dead in seconds because I was met with the unfair OP exploit that is Double Gunning. I also had no loot, they spawn camped me until I sank. They then sailed to me when spotted a few islands away to do the whole thing again. So yes... They are toxic and I will label them as such.

Wow, you’re actually doubling down on it?

To be completely frank with you, this post reads as: “I’m really upset about having died to a double gunner and now I’m going to say everything I can to cope with my own loss, while also declaring that they are inherently toxic and the cause of all bad in SoT”.

SS was created because of double gunners? Really? Citation required, you having seen someone kill someone in SoT with double guns isn’t it.

Double gunners choose double gun for the easy kills? Citation required.

EAC created because of double gunners? No citation required because that claim makes zero sense. EAC has nothing to do with double gunning and everything to do with installed mods/cheats.

Arena was canceled because double gunners? Really? Citation required.

Most double gunners are toxic? Really? Citation required, what a wild accusation to make based on what, that time you saw a mean double gunner?

Your post just comes across as angry and unreasonable. If you want to make a case against double gunning, try not to accuse double gunners of being the source of all your problems in the process, you’ll probably get a better reception.

I am frustrated and speaking about it because it is the biggest problem with the game. The Toxic players resort to this Double Gunning exploit to get the upper hand in combat. I am not saying all double gunners are toxic, I am saying the majority of toxic players use double gunning.

Safer seas was created because of toxic people.

Double gunners choose this playstyle for easier kills yes... its what I call "A kill confirmed technique" like the use of an RPG in close combat in COD, Battlefield.

EAC was created to deal with the toxic cheating players in which the majority also used Double Gunning.

I didn't say Arena was cancelled because of Double Gunners. Don't put words in my mouth. Arena was closed because of funding and development priority to the main game. I said... Arena's Voice chat was disabled because of the toxic players.

Yes, most double gunners are toxic, the majority of toxic players use the exploit. Every time I have seen toxic players they have used this exploit.

@dlchief58 said in Time to remove double gunning!:

@lordvader1o1 said in Time to remove double gunning!:

And how am I toxic for calling out the main problem with this games combat? So I should just stay silent and let the toxicity continue? How is it supposed to be fixed if nobody tells Rare what the issue is because we are made to be quiet about it?

No, you are toxic because of the way you framed your post with prejudice and disrespecting players because of their preferred weapon load-out - not all people who use double guns are exploiters. Also due to the ASSUMPTIONS you made that are totally unfounded, such as double gunners were the cause of chat ban in Arena (when in fact it was due to the toxic chat abuse which was the cause of that), to try and falsely bolster facts YOUR OPINION. Finally you labeling anyone who disagrees with you as "toxic" and ASSUMING they are also "exploiters" is again toxic behavior.

If it gets locked, it will be because of YOUR attitude towards other players you know nothing about other than what you assume.

Again... I didn't say Arena was cancelled because of Double Gunners. Don't put words in my mouth. Arena was closed because of funding and development priority to the main game. I said... Arena's Voice chat was disabled because of the toxic players, not double gunners. However the majority of toxic players use the double gunning exploit.

@lordvader1o1 said in Time to remove double gunning!:

I ask for the implementation of a restriction on primary or heavy weapons. Allow the use for only one main gun (Sniper, blunder) with a single small/light weapon (Sword, pistol, throwing knifes, double pistol).

If I pick a sniper or blunder and a pistol or double pistol, isn't that double gunning?

I edited my post as I can see where people are getting a little confused with what I meant. Also added a video to prove the toxic gameplay style I am talking about.

@lordvader1o1 I'm sorry, did we watch the same video?

That was one of the most highly skilled, hardest fought, non-toxic battle I've ever seen!

Choosing something that can give reliable results in a competitive game is not toxic. The quick switch animation cancel was patched out of the game already too, what even is that argument. You don't need quick switch for double gunning to be good. Eye of Reach does 70% HP. Three blunderbuss pellets or a flintlock follow up can knock out the remaining 30%. The only way to remove double gunning is to make all guns always do less than 50% HP, which is never going to happen because then the guns would all be garbage. Consistently landing scoped shots, and consistently landing the follow up (especially flintlock follow up) takes skill. I don't double gun, I use sword + eye or flint and I can recognize why double gunning is good, why it will never go away, and why it takes skill. Your OP/thread is the more toxic thing here.

I feel it's also worth pointing out that removing a given weapon set option will not make toxic players any less toxic.

Report the toxic ones and get em banned.

I actually can’t believe anyone can watch that video and not be triggered by the sheer amount of toxicity and constant use of anim cancelling. If you watch that video and claim it shows skill and there is no problem with combat then it is completely pointless even trying to talk with you because clearly you are blind to the issues. It’s delusion to watch that video and worship the gameplay style.

I also see another post that is this one yet again drowned out with defending comments claiming there is no problem with an unfair overpowering unbalanced meta that relies on an animation cancel to be of use in combat. Me like many others trying to bring this to light just get ridiculed because we want to see the end of this OP toxic go to for fighting which for some reason is the go to for most PVP focussed players. It’s OP, unfair and ruins the experience for everyone else no matter their skill level.