A very simple fix to Shrines and Treasuries

  • I will keep pushing for this until Rare does anything to fix the awful state Shrines are in.

    TL;DR:

    Shrines are too complex and long, requiring me to actually turn my brain on to find the loot spread out throughout the shrine, instead of just doing any other form of content that gives you all the loot in a big easy to collect clump. There is too much risk leaving your boat alone in the ocean where someone could just sink you and you'd have no idea, or you just have someone sit still on the boat bored out of their minds while everyone actually plays the content in the shrine. Naturally this all also applies to Treasuries.

    • Add a map in the main room of a Shrine that shows 3x3 map tiles surrounding the shrine. This map shows all player ships that come within the range no matter what. The map will glow when a ship comes near, and play a loud noise when they get super close. This allows people in the shrine to check the map to spot a player coming and pre-emptively get ready, or at the very least the horn lets them know to return before they sink, even if they already have a few holes in their ship by the time they get back on boat.

    • Increase the amount of loot in the 'main' Loot room, increase the value of Coral loot in general. Have the Mermaid Statues you store treasure in glow green to signify that all loot within the shrine has been collected, that way you don't get stuck thinking ''did I find all of it or not? better stay in and keep looking''.

    • 'Mini world event' outside of the main world event rotation, have a chance that the blue/green/purple swirls above a shrine (and on the map) glow Gold to signify the loot within the shrine is increased, this will actually mean people bother with going to a shrine right now instead of later because hey good loot. It also features a new Golden Item you can sell to start unlocking the coveted Golden Sailor clothing set.

    No more TL;DR:

    The main issue people have with shrines other than them not being profitable is the risk of leaving your boat unattended resulting in you sinking without having any chance. Or having to leave someone to watch the boat and do nothing while everyone in the shrine gets to actually play the content (something solo players don't even have the choice to do). And again, everything I'm stating also applies to Treasuries.

    You know those big maps they have on Sea Forts? Basically just put those in shrines main central room, but only the nearest 3 map tiles are visible rather than the entire map. This map should mark all player ships on it that get within range no matter what. This is by no means overpowered due to it only being a 3x3 map tile map that cannot be moved around. It would have no extra use outside of while you are doing the Shrine because any ship on the map would already be in plain view from the surface. This map simply lets people in a shrine check for any oncoming ships and know they need to go back to their boat to defend it. Note that a 3x3 map tile with the Shrine in the centre would mean 1.5 map tiles in each compass direction. This is about the Distance between Crooks Hollow and Stephens Spoils, so really not that much at all. Imagine you were on Crooks Hollow and could only see up to Stephens Spoils, then beyond that was fogged out like Minecraft Render Distance. That's how small this map is. Its even smaller than an Hourglass ring.

    This map has 2 triggers on it, once an ship gets within 1 map tiles of the shrine (therefore your ship), it will start to glow. Once a ship gets within .5 map tile of your ship, a loud Siren Horn will sound. This will reward the player for checking the map as if they routinely check it they will be aware of the enemy ship once they get within range of the map. Once they get close enough the map will glow making it more obvious that you need to check the map if you weren't already doing so. If you just completely ignore the map, you'll only know there is an approaching ship too late, and by the time you return to your ship its probably already taken on some holes. The more observant players will be able to return to their ship before the enemy is within attacking range and take the fight on equal footing, and the lesser observant player who only notices due to the Siren Horn will start the fight at a disadvantage.

    This map means that you no longer need to leave some poor soul on the ship while everyone has fun in the shrine, everyone is free to explore the shrine while knowing their ship is okay. And this would also remove the annoyance of being a shrine as a solo and then seeing ''Ship sunk, emissary status lost'' entirely outside of your control. This will encourage the use of shrines more, and therefore allow for more opportunities for PvPers to steal more interesting loot, as literally nobody does shrines right now so you basically just cant steal coral loot.

    Beyond that.. generally speaking just improve the loot. The shrines are as I said too unique and often too demanding of your full attention in order for you to care about. As all the loot is spread out you actually need to scour the entire location to make sure you grabbed all the loot, unlike most other forms of content where once you finish all the loot is given in a neat little pile. If the loot is increased it would give more incentive to bother going to check every nook and cranny, or at least increase the 'main loot room's loot value.

    Shrines lack replayability because of how much you need to engage, whereas I can just completely turn my brain off at a Fort and m1 the skeletons knowing once the game tells me I've completed the fort, all the loot is together in the vault. Shrines are simply too complexly designed and I need to decide if I think I found everything and leave when I believe the time is right because its really not that obvious. I think you could also do something to signify all the loot has been collected, such as to maybe have the return mermaids glow green once all loot within the shrine has been deposited. That way I stop doing the 5th loop to make sure I really found everything this time.

    This next part could basically apply to any form of existing content, have something akin to a mini world event that exists outside the world event rotation. Where something within the world is upgraded temporarily to give more loot. So for Shrines, you know the like blue green purple swirls above a shrine and on the map? have that glow a bright Gold colour to signify the loot within the shrine has been temporarily increased and is now actually worth your time. This will increase the usage because Shrines suffer from the ''I'm busy right now I'll just do the shrine commendations later'' mentality a lot, but if you had these Gold form Shrines you might actually decide to stop what you're doing and run the shrine. And as its visible on the map not just in the world, people from all over could actually want to go sail over and fight for the shrine.

    And again its worth noting this 'Gold Form'' is not just something that would work on Shrines and Treasuries, but also Sea Forts, you could even have it occur on actual World Events to make it the thing to be doing on that server over anything else. The Ghostly glow that Emanates from Sea Forts would glow Gold, The main grey cloud colour of world events would glow gold. So like not the eyes of the skull going gold or anything, the actual skull itself would be golden.

    This chance needs to ACTUALLY be rare in order for it to work as intended. So many times this game adds a 'rare' thing with the intention being ''wowow its so rare if you ever saw it you'd drop what you're doing to go for it'' but in actuality its so common that you don't even care because why do it now when I can do it later. FoF tried to be Rare like that, Siren Song tried to be rare like that, but they were still both far too common, so nobody cared. This needs to actually be like oh wait guys there's a Gold form on the map we need to go do this.

    And what's another good way to make people play content? throw things they want behind doing it. As such this will be how you get Golden Sailor clothing. The 'key loot item' you get from the Gold Form content goes towards you getting the Golden Sailor clothing. You could either have it be graded and just every time you get sell one you progress the clothing in a set order, or have it be like Tomes where you just get a random bit of clothing each time. You could then have it be that you know what clothing piece it is prior to selling it, that way it feels more personal as you know you definitely need it. But that would have the downside of meaning if its a part of clothing you already have then you don't care as much about it, but even then the gold form content is still good for money regardless of if you need the clothing.

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  • Another thing they could do instead of have the separation from player and ship is to have the ship able to dive down to the shrine and dock there. While docked, just make the light pillar a different color so players know someone is down there, but their ship is not vulnerable until they come back up. Maybe while docked, have the mermaid statues drop loot onto their ship instead of holding on to it. Now you have a choice on whether to have your ship be safer but your loot more vulnerable, or to swim down and secure the loot but leave your ship vulnerable.

    You could still place the large map tables in the shrines, but given that the shrine layouts are all different it might not be as easy to check this map in some shrines vs others.

  • @d3adst1ck

    I would fear that the ability to create an invulnerable state for your ship would be come abused, regardless of it causes your loot to float up.

    Likewise if when docked in the shrine the only indicator is a colour change of shrines swirls then you'd need to be super close to notice a player is there, unlike how it currently is where you can see them on the horizon from halfway across the map.

  • Shrines are too complex and long, requiring me to actually turn my brain on to find the loot spread out throughout the shrine,

    Oh my, oh no...we must use our brains to think and solve Puzzles. :p

    Shrines are too complex and long, requiring me to actually turn my brain on to find the loot spread out throughout the shrine,

    Too easy, and that just lazy.

    There is too much risk leaving your boat alone

    Risk=Reward, have we forgotten this?

    Add a map in the main room of a Shrine that shows 3x3 map tiles surrounding the shrine. This map shows all player ships that come within the range no matter what.

    Removes the Risk=Reward. No thanks.

    Increase the amount of loot in the 'main' Loot room, increase the value of Coral loot in general. Have the Mermaid Statues you store treasure in glow green to signify that all loot within the shrine has been collected, that way you don't get stuck thinking ''did I find all of it or not? b

    I like the Statue one, but I also like those moments where I do a double take on the room making sure I didnt miss a thing. But that is the Risk of it. Maybe just Grab and run, leave what you didnt grab and try again. "You aren't meant to get everything if your scared"

    The main issue people have with shrines other than them not being profitable is the risk of leaving your boat unattended resulting in you sinking without having any chance.

    You sure? Ive gotten a huge profit from shrines. Little to much profit if I must be frank. It equal to those Sea fortresses.

    Or having to leave someone to watch the boat and do nothing

    Hey buddy, while were in the Shrine. Watch out for Ships and Fish. You know...do something profitable and protect our ship, if need Run!

    something solo players don't even have the choice to do

    Sad but true, but still I like the thrill of having to rush. Gun and Run.

    This map should mark all player ships on it that get within range

    Umm, No? who wants to stop what they are doing, look at a giant map just to see if a ship is in the area. If you see a ship, how you know they are gonna attack and not sailing by? What about Skeleton Ships??! they can sail by and attack if you aggro without trying. :P

    This map simply lets people in a shrine check for any oncoming ships and know they need to go back to their boat to defend it.

    So you be more paranoid if you see a ship, drop what your doing and leave the Shrine! just to go back to your ship and witness a ship simply sailing by. Nothing, NOW you have to dive back down/Swim down again...and repeat everything.

    The more observant players will be able to return to their ship before the enemy is within attacking range

    Cannon Rowboats & players can shoot long range outside the view, yes players can. So how you gonna solve that? Rowboats cant appear on the map.

    therefore allow for more opportunities for PvPers to steal more interesting loot, as literally nobody does shrines right now so you basically just cant steal coral loot.

    ...Im confused. You want a safety net for Shrines to prevent Pvp...yet you are saying it create more pvp??
    and nobody uses Shrines? Idk where you been but every shrine I sail past I see a ship. It busy with Dives.

    generally speaking just improve the loot.

    Only thing I say yes and No.

    Shrines lack replayability because of how much you need to engage

    More or less, too much thinking and paranoia prevents players from enjoying them. Make them easier and safer to do.

    Shrines are simply too complexly designed

    I wish more content was Complex, they keep the game fresh and engaging for those of us who are tired of the easy loot. That way I can say "I survived! and got rewarded"

    And what's another good way to make people play content? throw things they want behind doing it

    here you are trying to reduce and take away from me :(

  • @burnbacon

    Oh my, oh no...we must use our brains to think and solve Puzzles. :p

    If the time investment to solve and explore shrines is too great versus the reward when compared to other forms of content then they wont be interacted with as much. Literally nobody does shrines any more, not even in the new player mmr servers. You might say 'hey I do shrines'' but I can tell you, you are in the minority on that.

    Risk=Reward, have we forgotten this?

    Point being that the Risk outweighs the reward. The Shrine does not give you enough to justify the great risk to your ship unless you are doing the treasuries at the sides of the map. When Shrines first came out and therefore people actually did them, they were incredibly easy targets because a lot of shrines are in high traffic areas and therefore easy to locate a defenceless ship at it.

    Removes the Risk=Reward. No thanks.

    Putting a map to let you see a player puts Shrines in the same level of safety as doing... literally anything on the Surface. While doing a fort I can check the horizon to scan for oncoming ships, this does not remove the risk of an oncoming ship. This simply allows more aware players to get back to boat earlier to take the fight with the enemy before its too late. Then if they don't bother checking the map they will hear the Siren Horn so they get back in time to at least try to save their ship. If the ability to see 1.5 map tiles from the Shrine removes the risk, then why is it okay for me to be on FoTD and spyglass to see a guy 4+ map tiles away at Reapers Hideout? Surely by your logic this would remove the risk that ship poses because I can see its location.

    I like the Statue one, but I also like those moments where I do a double take on the room making sure I didn't miss a thing. But that is the Risk of it. Maybe just Grab and run, leave what you didn't grab and try again. "You aren't meant to get everything if your scared"

    If Shrines had the same energy as Vaults where you are supposed to be going at this fast then sure, but shrines are catering more to the exploration side of things where you take your time at it. Especially when they contain journals and an entire separate puzzle you do after the fact with the Sunken Kingdom voyage. It'd be nice to know that you'll fully explored it loot wise.

    You sure? Ive gotten a huge profit from shrines. Little to much profit if I must be frank. It equal to those Sea fortresses.

    Power creep in sot is one hell of a thing. In Season 11 we can now dive to a Skeleton Fort which takes 10 minutes to complete and net 37.5k gold as a gold hoarder emissary with little to no risk due to how the diving works. Skull of Siren Song is now never contested and its a free 50k if you're willing to play sailing simulator. Given Shrines innate risk of leaving your boat unattended/and or having someone just sit and watch the boat, does not have a good enough pay-out to justify going out of your way to do them.

    Hey buddy, while were in the Shrine. Watch out for Ships and Fish. You know...do something profitable and protect our ship, if need Run!

    You say that like if they added the map, its impossible to still just leave someone on the ship. I think giving people the ability to all go and play the content you are choosing to go for is a good thing. If you do not think you need all of your crew in the Shrine, feel free to continue to leave someone on the boat to be look out and fish.

    Sad but true, but still I like the thrill of having to rush. Gun and Run.

    I don't think that's the intent with shrines, as its about exploration and puzzle solving, but you do you. Its not like you still cant treat it as a run and gun if they were to add these features.

    Umm, No? who wants to stop what they are doing, look at a giant map just to see if a ship is in the area. If you see a ship, how you know they are gonna attack and not sailing by? What about Skeleton Ships??! they can sail by and attack if you aggro without trying. :P

    The map would be in the central location as such you would be able to see if from a distance (in most shrines at least) not needing to go out of your way to check it, you could just turn and look from where you are. Think the central room of Ancient Tiers, Coral Tomb, and Treasuries in general. Oceans Fortune, Tribute and Hungering might be a little more tricky to decide where to put a map, potentially needing multiple maps as those Shrines are more about moving onto later rooms, rather than staying in one central room with smaller areas expanding outside of it.

    You wouldn't know the ship is hostile, the exact same way that if you were on an Island and see a ship incoming, you wouldn't know its hostile, seeing the ship just gives you a heads up to be on your guard in case they become hostile. its your choice if you want to have one guy return to ship once you see a ship on the Shrine map. Skeleton ships would not be shown on the map because they are not players. Skeleton Ships technically can agro and attack you if they soft lock onto you and their pathfinding causes them to ram you, thats extremely uncommon and I mean that can already happen when doing shrines right now? So its not really a point against this Idea.

    Cannon Rowboats & players can shoot long range outside the view, yes players can. So how you gonna solve that? Rowboats cant appear on the map.

    Absolutely, If people want to park far away enough to not be on the shrine map and row or swim all the way there stealthily, go for it.

    ...Im confused. You want a safety net for Shrines to prevent Pvp...yet you are saying it create more pvp?? and nobody uses Shrines? Idk where you been but every shrine I sail past I see a ship. It busy with Dives.

    The Safety net for shrines is to reduce the possibility that you are in a shrine and then get told your ship sank while you werent at it. You call that PvP? A ship going over to a parked empty ship and sinking it? If people do not want to do shrines because they are too risky and not rewarding enough, and you then add reward while reducing the risk to create a more appropriate risk/reward ratio, then more people will do Shrines, and therefore there will be more PvPers that spot shrine doers. This time instead of spotting a ship at a shrine and just sinking it, they would actually have a fight on their hands, thus PvP.

    Only thing I say yes and No.

    Generally speaking if some form of content doesn't see much use an easy way to ease the issue is to increase the loot. I'm not saying double it or anything, just increase the loot and make a point of saying the loot is increased.

    I wish more content was Complex, they keep the game fresh and engaging for those of us who are tired of the easy loot. That way I can say "I survived! and got rewarded"

    Complex content is great especially with things like Legend of the Veil. But Given the format of Shrines its too dangerous to be away from your ship doing complex content without the slightest way of knowing if your ship is safe... Unless you leave someone to sit on it and guard it while everyone else actually gets to play the Shrine.

    here you are trying to reduce and take away from me :(

    I'm not trying to take anything away from you, I'm trying to increase the appeal of Shrines by decreasing the things that make them unappealing, therefore increasing the amount of people that do shrines, which would then increase the opportunities for a PvPer to battle someone doing a Shrine, or battle someone who has already done one and has Coral loot on their ship up for grabs.

    Though something I did forget to put in the OP, Once the crew that owns the Mermaid that holds the loot gets a certain distance a way the Mermaid should become usable by anybody to spawn the loot in. That way you do not have to let the crew live until they claim the Mermaid before you kill them. You can just fight them, sink them, and collect the loot yourself.

  • I often agree with Rare when it comes to making games more accessible, not necessarily easier. And here, I'm sorry, it's a big No!
    I understand gamers who are angry at Rare's decisions when I see this kind of message.
    This is worse than making it easier, you want everything handed to you on a platter.
    The whole point of sanctuaries/treasure hunts is precisely the puzzles, the battles, the discovery. Take away these 3 points and you take away the whole principle of these activities.
    If you're afraid of leaving your boat at the top, well, come by rowboat, and I've been doing the shrines a lot since season 4, and I've rarely been bothered. So I take this message as laziness, nothing more, nothing less.
    The rewards in these places are more than enough, there's absolutely nothing to change.

  • @zeyrniyx
    I am losing all hope for this community. Every update in the past year has been made with the purpose of making the game easier and more accessible to new players and smaller crews. Even the SoSS introduced commendations where you don't need to turn in loot. However when someone proposes a very valid and creative way to make shrines relevant again, everyone suddenly is against it because it makes the game "too easy" or supposedly takes away the risk-reward factor. What you proposed is imo opinion a perfect solution to shrines being a doa feature, while keeping intact the difficulty factor compared to other sandbox activities. I really hope someone from Rare sees this and considers it as an option, great job!

  • @zeyrniyx

    I often agree with Rare when it comes to making games more accessible, not necessarily easier. And here, I'm sorry, it's a big No!

    The current state of shrines is one of inactivity and they might as well just not exist in the game. I've tried to think about it and talk to others about why they don't participate in shrines in order to try and come up with solutions to these issues.

    The issues I've found are that they aren't replayable, they take too long, the loot is not enough/hard to find it all, and they are too risky when leaving your boat (or too boring if you leave a guy up top).

    This is worse than making it easier, you want everything handed to you on a platter.

    This does not in any way shape or form alter the gameplay of the Shrine. You are doing the exact same thing, the only difference is that now you don't have to leave a guy up top, and you know when you've finished exploring the shrine in terms of gathering up the loot. It doesn't kick you out once you get all the loot, you can stay as long as you want, it by no means hands anything to you on a platter. But feel free to explain why you think it does.

    The whole point of sanctuaries/treasure hunts is precisely the puzzles, the battles, the discovery. Take away these 3 points and you take away the whole principle of these activities.

    Right you are, that is the point of shrines. Taking away those aspects would indeed remove the core concept of shrines, so its a good thing that is in no way what the OP suggests in any way shape or form.

    If you're afraid of leaving your boat at the top, well, come by rowboat, and I've been doing the shrines a lot since season 4, and I've rarely been bothered. So I take this message as laziness, nothing more, nothing less.

    If you can only find a way to play Shrines by leaving your boat further away and have to come by rowboat, that would suggest that you are too afraid of leaving your boat on the shrine due to how risky it is to do so. You can't say I'm handing it to you on a platter; implying that I'm making it too easy, and then also state you are too afraid to even have your boat at the shrine. If its actually that dangerous to do so and you need to rowboat then the reward for doing a shrine is no where near enough when you compare it to other forms of content that are far less risky and require less set up.

    The rewards in these places are more than enough, there's absolutely nothing to change.

    If nothing changes, then they will remain as the almost completely unused feature they are today. feel free to suggest something, but if you think that they're in a healthy state, I don't think you'll be in any mindset to recognise the issue.

  • @gosva5434

    appreciated :)

  • Eh, regular treasuries are fine : they're currently one of the easiest and quickest ways to raise your emissary to grade 4+ in 10 minutes tops, with minimal risk (unless you're doing the treasury right next to Reapers) and the mermaid mechanics means your loot is safe is you decide to dive, hop servers or if you need to flee in a hurry to save your flag.

    (Raid treasuries could be improved, but that's the case for most raids)

    As for shrines, the real issue is the risk/reward unbalance between them. You can knock off the Shrine of Tribute in 5 minutes tops, but others, like Coral Tomb and Ocean's Fortune, are just a pain in the rear, and a 20+ min affair... for the exact same amount of loot, if not less due to bad RNG.

    Maybe if Rare just balanced them out a bit more... in the longer Shrines, more of the higher tier loot, less of those pesky Coral Seafarer/Marauder/Castaway. Make those Shrines worth the effort. Although you're still stuck with a 20 items mermaid in the end... maybe change that to a 30 items limit for longer shrines.

  • @frogfish12 said in A very simple fix to Shrines and Treasuries:

    The current state of shrines is one of inactivity and they might as well just not exist in the game.

    I run shrines and treasuries pretty frequently when I'm solo slooping, and I know other people who actually enjoy doing them. If I'm sailing with a crew I'll hop off while we're sailing to a destination, loot the shrine/treasury, merm back to the ship, and we'll pick up thenloot when next we pass through that way.

    I agree they're not a "main draw", and they certainly don't have as large of a usage rate as some of the other content, but saying they might as well not exist in the game is incorrect.

    Just anecdotally, I ran about 6 or 7 of them last night. Was never disturbed and made a decent haul.

  • @habiki

    I run shrines and treasuries pretty frequently when I'm solo slooping, and I know other people who actually enjoy doing them. If I'm sailing with a crew I'll hop off while we're sailing to a destination, loot the shrine/treasury, merm back to the ship, and we'll pick up thenloot when next we pass through that way.
    I agree they're not a "main draw", and they certainly don't have as large of a usage rate as some of the other content, but saying they might as well not exist in the game is incorrect.
    Just anecdotally, I ran about 6 or 7 of them last night. Was never disturbed and made a decent haul.

    There definitely are people that do them but they do not have the draw they should have given they were a flagship drop for an entire season. This means they should be on par with something like LoTV, Sea Forts, Hourglass, FoF, etc. My suggestions would only make the experience better for those that already do them, as well as draw in more players that do not currently do them.

  • @kaoteek

    Eh, regular treasuries are fine : they're currently one of the easiest and quickest ways to raise your emissary to grade 4+ in 10 minutes tops, with minimal risk (unless you're doing the treasury right next to Reapers) and the mermaid mechanics means your loot is safe is you decide to dive, hop servers or if you need to flee in a hurry to save your flag.

    Yea that's fair enough, especially with the keg spawns and more than enough tridents to just one-shot all enemies and keg stack the boss. The placement of Treasuries is definitely odd, with 2 being at the top of the map past any islands, and the other being very central. You either have to go out of your way specifically do a Treasury at the top meaning its not something you do while also doing other things, or need to leave your boat unattended in the centre of the map.

    As for shrines, the real issue is the risk/reward unbalance between them. You can knock off the Shrine of Tribute in 5 minutes tops, but others, like Coral Tomb and Ocean's Fortune, are just a pain in the rear, and a 20+ min affair... for the exact same amount of loot, if not less due to bad RNG.

    That's also a great point, Coral Tomb is an absolute pain. You used to be able to cheese the entire thing with sword lunges and never have to do the puzzle but they've since added invisible walls to prevent it. I would worry that if you made some more profitable than others it would reduce use of the lesser valuable ones, even if there is good justification in that the more profitable ones take longer.

    Maybe if Rare just balanced them out a bit more... in the longer Shrines, more of the higher tier loot, less of those pesky Coral Seafarer/Marauder/Castaway. Make those Shrines worth the effort. Although you're still stuck with a 20 items mermaid in the end... maybe change that to a 30 items limit for longer shrines.

    Generally speaking I think a blanket nerf to all the Coral loot items would go a long way.

    Likewise I don't see the need of the 20 cap on the Mermaid Statues. Like is the point that you get more then 20 and need to choose which ones to get? Because every time I've done Shrines or Treasuries you can fit all the loot in if you bother to fill the coral collectors chest. So it just seems like a needless limit. Its not like without a limit it would gain some unintended side effect that you can use in another way to be really op.

    Though I think it could be cool if they absolutely lather Shrines in loot and then you actually do have to make the choice as to which items to collect. Once the loot mermaid is claimed all remaining loot disappears so you cant just go back down for seconds. That might make it feel similar to Vaults where the idea is here's a bunch of loot you have limited time, grab what you can, while also not limiting the exploration possibilities of the shrines by giving you a time window. Having the loot work like that would actually mean you don't need to directly buff loot value, as you would be able to specifically choose loot of your faction, thus increasing your emissary grade further, and all loot would be multiplied instead of 1/3 of it.

  • @frogfish12 said in A very simple fix to Shrines and Treasuries:

    Likewise I don't see the need of the 20 cap on the Mermaid Statues. Like is the point that you get more then 20 and need to choose which ones to get? Because every time I've done Shrines or Treasuries you can fit all the loot in if you bother to fill the coral collectors chest. So it just seems like a needless limit. Its not like without a limit it would gain some unintended side effect that you can use in another way to be really op.

    The limit is probably to prevent stacking, which at some point would probably tank the server or cause it to crash outright when it tries to spawn all that stuff in at once when you release it.

    I don't think they even want it possible for players to go back and forth between shrines and stockpile hundreds of items in a mermaid.

  • @d3adst1ck

    The limit is probably to prevent stacking,

    How would you stack it?

  • @frogfish12 said in A very simple fix to Shrines and Treasuries:

    @kaoteek

    As for shrines, the real issue is the risk/reward unbalance between them. You can knock off the Shrine of Tribute in 5 minutes tops, but others, like Coral Tomb and Ocean's Fortune, are just a pain in the rear, and a 20+ min affair... for the exact same amount of loot, if not less due to bad RNG.

    That's also a great point, Coral Tomb is an absolute pain. You used to be able to cheese the entire thing with sword lunges and never have to do the puzzle but they've since added invisible walls to prevent it. I would worry that if you made some more profitable than others it would reduce use of the lesser valuable ones, even if there is good justification in that the more profitable ones take longer.

    Some shrines are definitely quicker than others like Flooded Embrace or Tribute. 20+ minutes to complete any of them seems like a stretch though, except for players that have only done them a couple of times. I can consistently get Coral Tomb done in 10 minutes or less.

    I think the longest is Ocean's Fortune, just due to parkour and slow moving platforms you have to manipulate.......but even then 20 minutes is extreme.

    I do agree I'd like to see more consistently better loot in the more involved shrines though.

  • @frogfish12 said in A very simple fix to Shrines and Treasuries:

    @d3adst1ck

    The limit is probably to prevent stacking,

    How would you stack it?

    Leave, go to a different shrine and fill that mermaid up, come back to the original shrine and do it again, add to that mermaid, go back to the other one, etc, etc...

    If there was no mermaid limit there are bound to be players who'd add crazy amounts of loot in there before trying to claim it.

  • @d3adst1ck You could make it so as long as there is still a mermaid holding treasure, it doesn't spawn new loot for you? That said, almost never is there more treasure then capacity on the mermaid (unless you count the tridents in the treasuries). Only for Ancient Tears (about 50-50) and Ocean's Fortune (but very rare) i have had that be a probleem.

    To go back to OP's problem: i do shrines/treasuries pretty often, especially when going for OOS emissary. Most of the time it's more about being smart and use rowboats. After completing them you can choose to swim back up and collect the treasure with the rowboat and row it back to your ship, or just teleport back to the ship and sail it to the shrine/treasurie and unload the mermaid. This is a way safer method of doing them.

    Clockwise, starting in the northwest:

    • Treasury of Sunken Shores: most safe of all, just park above it
    • Shrine of Coral Tomb: park behind Smuggler's Bay and row over there
    • Treasury of the Secret Wilds: park behind Old Faithfull Isle, or even at the Coral Fortress
    • Shrine of Hungering: park behind Marauder's Arch
    • Shrine of Flooded Embrace: park behind Crooked Mast between the island and a big rock (one of the unsafest ones to do though)
    • Shrine of Ancient Tears: park inside Thieves' Haven
    • Shrine of Tribute: park at Discovery Ridge at the southwest cave
    • Treasury of Lost Ancients: least safe, best options are to park behind Mermaid's Hideaway or Discovery Rigde, but it is a long way rowing.
    • Shrine of Ocean's Fortune: park behind Mermaid's Hideaway

    But if you do a shrine or treasury to begin your emissary with, most of the time it's just fine to park above them, since even if you sink, the loot is still safe. Most of the time you can do them (except Flooded Embrace and Treasury of Lost Ancients) before someone spots you, since they are on the sides of the map.

  • Has anyone done a bottle quest shrine in season 11? I tend to make an effort to pick them up in hops of a Treasury, quick and easy loot party. But I can see his concern about leaving the boat for 10-15 minutes with no way to know if anyone is coming, I used to do a circuit on a brig, drop people off and they solo it and then come back to pick up the loot.

  • @flipstick19 Haven't done a Breath of the Seas quest yet, mostly because they haven't adjusted yet and therefor still often give you a shrine/treasury that is on the complete other side of the map, so often i just can't be bothered.

  • The only real issue I have with them is with treasuries specifically. The number of times the waves have to stop so the room can fill or drain the water is excessive. Each wave provides enough time to eat, reposition, search for food or a trident, and be ready for the next wave. To have this pause between waves extended significantly several times brings gameplay to a halt.

    I don't want the mechanic removed but perhaps each treasury should only have the water level change once or twice during the entire event rather than every three waves. Each treasury could start as either filled or drained and will remain that way until half way through the event, and then it switches to the other state. Before the boss wave it could remain the same or switch again depending on if the boss state matches the state of the room from the wave before it.

    Potentially this means you could start an empty shrine, fight several waves of land enemies, then have the room fill to fight several waves of sirens including a boss. This involves one instance of the water level changing and could be the minimum. Not including the room being emptied after the boss dies and the vault opens.

    On the other hand the room could fill upon entering, drain halfway through, then fill again for the boss wave, and of course drain once the vault opens. That creates a potential of 3 times everything pauses and you have to wait for the water to change. The fourth time not counting since the event is complete.

  • Saying you need to leave your ship alone above the water at the shrine is where you play it wrong. And saying it isn't something solo players can do is also wrong.

    Obviously the next method doesn't work for every shrine and treasury, but only for shrines close to an island where you can hide your ship:
    Let's take for example when you are solo: You go to Shrine of Ancient Tears. You scan the horizon for ships, you see no ship, so you can proceed. You park your ship inside of Thieves' Haven, and you anchor it in case a storm comes by, you run up on the island and shoot yourself over in one of the cannons from Thieves Haven to the shrine, after a short 1- to 2min swim, you go do the shrine, you complete it, go back to your ship, sail over to the shrine, talk to the mermaid, & voila you got yourself the loot (including a Chest of Ancient Tributes) from a shrine without having to worry about getting attacked as a solo :)

  • @d3adst1ck

    Leave, go to a different shrine and fill that mermaid up, come back to the original shrine and do it again, add to that mermaid, go back to the other one, etc, etc...
    If there was no mermaid limit there are bound to be players who'd add crazy amounts of loot in there before trying to claim it.

    Ah then yea, you could do something similar to what @Super87Ghost suggested in that it doesn't respawn loot until the mermaid is claimed in order to prevent you just leaving the area then coming back and reloading it.

    You could also have the Mermaid exist on a timer where once no ship is within the shrine location, the mermaid will despawn (with the loot) in 10 minutes.

  • @testakleze

    The only real issue I have with them is with treasuries specifically. The number of times the waves have to stop so the room can fill or drain the water is excessive. Each wave provides enough time to eat, reposition, search for food or a trident, and be ready for the next wave. To have this pause between waves extended significantly several times brings gameplay to a halt.

    I agree on this front, waiting for the water to rise and then empty just for a single wave, only for it to fill up again in 2 waves time is incredibly tedious to wait through. While also needlessly extending how long it takes to complete, which is a big issue when you might have your boat unattended.

    I do like the idea of splitting it where 50% is flooded and 50% isn't (that would also aid in knowing how far in you are) with it being random if it starts flooded or not.

  • @haltzo5045

    Saying you need to leave your ship alone above the water at the shrine is where you play it wrong. And saying it isn't something solo players can do is also wrong.
    Obviously the next method doesn't work for every shrine and treasury, but only for shrines close to an island where you can hide your ship:
    Let's take for example when you are solo: You go to Shrine of Ancient Tears. You scan the horizon for ships, you see no ship, so you can proceed. You park your ship inside of Thieves' Haven, and you anchor it in case a storm comes by, you run up on the island and shoot yourself over in one of the cannons from Thieves Haven to the shrine, after a short 1- to 2min swim, you go do the shrine, you complete it, go back to your ship, sail over to the shrine, talk to the mermaid, & voila you got yourself the loot (including a Chest of Ancient Tributes) from a shrine without having to worry about getting attacked as a solo :)

    The need to leave your boat at an island 2+ map tiles away and then swim/rowboat to the location pretty much proves the issue. You can't risk leaving your boat unattended so you need to go to extra steps that make it take way longer just to have any feeling of safety. As you say not every shrine and treasury its even possible to do this for. The suggested fix would remove the need to do this.

    Likewise hiding your ship in Thieves Haven while you do it fully cuts out the PvP opportunities for those looking to steal it, as there is little chance they spot you. If you could just park at the Shrine that would mean PvPers would be able to spot enemy ships and then sail to them to try and steal it, and as the Shrine player would be alerted they could actually fight over the loot. Obviously nothing would still stop you from parking at Thieves Haven if the fix was added, but I imagine the average player would not bother doing that and therefore increase the appeal of Shrines to both PvP and PvErs.

  • Somehow it does not happen often that your boat gets attacked while being inside the shrine. We even thought for a while that the purple fog acted like real fog, making your ship almost invisible. Would be a great idea though.
    Nevertheless, we hardly play shrines anymore. It's only fun if someone enjoys fishing, while others do the shrine.

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