When will rare fix hitreg? It's annoying when a kid writes "ez" in chat when you hit him 4 times in a row and he's not dead.
Rare it been 4 years of not fixed bug. At least do hitmarks on the server side not on client
hitreg
I didnt make a PVP game,why u ask me? Why i should give solution to a problem i didnt created? XD
Funny lady.
@tossico94 said in hitreg:
I didnt make a PVP game,why u ask me? Why i should give solution to a problem i didnt created? XD
Funny lady.
If shes implying it how i think, then she is basically implying that if you dont have the skill to address such a complex issue, dont treat it like such an obvious easy thing.
This game uses a brand new system that, my bets, no one has ever seen for projectile based weapons that keeps track of the direction and speed you were moving at the time you fired your weapon, and maintains that directional momentum with the projectile. Its not a simple issue to fix or prevent when this is probably the only game that uses that system in the world.
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
@pithyrumble fixing their bugs is their business, not mine, if they can't fix a bug for 4 years, it's not my faul. Besides, in such corporations there are departments, so it's not easy to get to the right department that works on hitreg.
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
Yes they do have the code for it already, and the code for it is in a state that isnt fixed, meaning its not a simple fix. Like i said, this is the only code like it in the world. Its not a simple issue to fix, if it was, it would be fixed already since they are constantly working on it.
But if you are so sure that it is so simple, and you can prove it, then apply for a job at rare! If some one could fix the only game code in the world that does what this does with directional momentum and projectiles, so easily as you think, im pretty sure they would be hired in a heartbeat and rare would do everything in their power to keep them on the team.
Imagine if u buy a car and It doesnt work,u complain to the dealership (Rare) and a random person walking nearby (Funny forum user) Scream at you "WHY DONT U FIX IT??"
Makes no sense.
The service i pay for (SOT IS A GAAS) isnt working as intended. So i complain as expected in any Logic situation.
Użytkownik @goldsmen napisał w hitreg:
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
Yes they do have the code for it already, and the code for it is in a state that isnt fixed, meaning its not a simple fix. Like i said, this is the only code like it in the world. Its not a simple issue to fix, if it was, it would be fixed already since they are constantly working on it.
But if you are so sure that it is so simple, and you can prove it, then apply for a job at rare! If some one could fix the only game code in the world that does what this does with directional momentum and projectiles, so easily as you think, im pretty sure they would be hired in a heartbeat and rare would do everything in their power to keep them on the team.
Im talking about client-side code that works
@tossico94 said in hitreg:
Imagine if u buy a car and It doesnt work,u complain to the dealership (Rare) and a random person walking nearby (Funny forum user) Scream at you "WHY DONT U FIX IT??"
Makes no sense.
The service i pay for (SOT IS A GAAS) isnt working as intended. So i complain as expected in any Logic situation.
This isnt a car that has had hundreds of iterations before it to perfect it, this is a game using a new mechanic that no one has ever made. The idea is sound that you expect something to work, until you realize that directional momentum affecting projectiles hasnt had hundreds of iterations before hand to perfect the system.
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
Yes they do have the code for it already, and the code for it is in a state that isnt fixed, meaning its not a simple fix. Like i said, this is the only code like it in the world. Its not a simple issue to fix, if it was, it would be fixed already since they are constantly working on it.
But if you are so sure that it is so simple, and you can prove it, then apply for a job at rare! If some one could fix the only game code in the world that does what this does with directional momentum and projectiles, so easily as you think, im pretty sure they would be hired in a heartbeat and rare would do everything in their power to keep them on the team.
Honestly the fix might be to drop the unique system. Its been broken for years maybe its time to switch to something more mainstream like hit scan.
@bronzeinquiztor said in hitreg:
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
Yes they do have the code for it already, and the code for it is in a state that isnt fixed, meaning its not a simple fix. Like i said, this is the only code like it in the world. Its not a simple issue to fix, if it was, it would be fixed already since they are constantly working on it.
But if you are so sure that it is so simple, and you can prove it, then apply for a job at rare! If some one could fix the only game code in the world that does what this does with directional momentum and projectiles, so easily as you think, im pretty sure they would be hired in a heartbeat and rare would do everything in their power to keep them on the team.
Honestly the fix might be to drop the unique system. Its been broken for years maybe its time to switch to something more mainstream like hit scan.
They have already stated they are considering hitscan in a podcast, apparently a number of people pushed back against the idea because they believe the way that aim works in this game is a big part of what makes it special, including a few streamers apparently.
@bronzeinquiztor said in hitreg:
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@goldsmen it is simple issue to fix cause they have already code for it, they don't use client side code on server side code because of exploiters that could spam infinite shots. To prevent exploits like this you can store shots in DB and measure time between them to detect any exploits
Yes they do have the code for it already, and the code for it is in a state that isnt fixed, meaning its not a simple fix. Like i said, this is the only code like it in the world. Its not a simple issue to fix, if it was, it would be fixed already since they are constantly working on it.
But if you are so sure that it is so simple, and you can prove it, then apply for a job at rare! If some one could fix the only game code in the world that does what this does with directional momentum and projectiles, so easily as you think, im pretty sure they would be hired in a heartbeat and rare would do everything in their power to keep them on the team.
Honestly the fix might be to drop the unique system. Its been broken for years maybe its time to switch to something more mainstream like hit scan.
They have already stated they are considering hitscan in a podcast, apparently a number of people pushed back against the idea because they believe the way that aim works in this game is a big part of what makes it special, including a few streamers apparently.
While I understand that, I think at some point the functionality has to come first. As I said its been broken for years, most of the games life. With all the new stuff they added, maybe its just too much for the system to handle now.
@ctrlshifti8686 The 2nd clip, you board and your first pistol missed (imo) but showed a hit marker. I slowed it down to .25x and it there's no way that shot should have regged.
@ctrlshifti8686 said in hitreg:
@unleet1 it hit, it might be an illusion because i got a knockback.
is that a thing? I thought it registered client side but not server side. it does not look like your pistol is fully ads, too, that hitregs for me at times. it's just wonky either way.
@goldsmen Huh?
games like ARMA which are HUGE open world sims with hundreds of players on a server use projectile, those are decade old titles...
Nothing ''new'' in terms of gaming.Probably just messy coding that they kept overlapping over time would be my guess why hitreg would probably never go away.
That and a heavily edited Unreal Engine 4 that they run their game on.@ix-indi-xi said in hitreg:
@goldsmen Huh?
games like ARMA which are HUGE open world sims with hundreds of players on a server use projectile, those are decade old titles...
Nothing ''new'' in terms of gaming.Probably just messy coding that they kept overlapping over time would be my guess why hitreg would probably never go away.
That and a heavily edited Unreal Engine 4 that they run their game on.I never said projectiles is a new system, projectiles that move based on players directional momentum on the other hand is a system that exists nowhere else, in this, your bullet will move the direction you are moving at the same speed as you are moving.
In other games with projectile bullets, it bases the shot on the position you were standing in at the moment of firing, not the speed you are moving and what direction you are moving at the moment of firing.
@ctrlshifti8686 the sad truth is that just about everyone complaining about "hit reg" knows virtually nothing about game dev., and the things they are actually complaining about are player prediction, backtracking etc...
While, yes, it's "technically" fairly easy to do hit registration - it's just collision detection and ray tracing - what people complain about isn't actually the hit reg implementation, it's the forward and backward prediction and tracking of player and game object movements.
Now THAT problem^ is 100% non-trivial - especially in a game with multiple moving players/objects moving within independent reference frames (e.g. ships, water etc...) that can also be moving. There is no easy answer to this stuff, and complaining about it just demonstrates a lack of awareness about the real issue. Your screen isn't 100% accurate, and neither is your opponents, get over it.
A sadder truth, is that the people who do "get it" - who understand that what they see on their client - is NOT 100% guaranteed to be the "ground truth" of the server - ARE able to compensate and adapt for that and ARE able to achieve better hit rates.
Those people who stubbornly refuse to accept that what THEIR screen shows is NOT the "absolute truth" - are never going to be able to compensate for it, and will keep missing shots and then whining about "hit reg" instead of learning and improving.
The saddest truth, is that even if Rare did implement any of the so called "solutions" people whining about hit reg suggest (most often they simply DEMAND that THEIR client's state be the absolute ground truth state, regardless of other players' client states - ignoring that this is totally silly and impossible), it would simply cause other problems THAT THE SAME PLAYERS WOULD ALSO COMPLAIN ABOUT.
If you prioritize player prediction over backward tracking, you will have a lot less of "my hit marker was right on but I still missed" complaints, but the consequence is that you would then have a whole lot more of "how could they have possibly hit me, I was behind a wall when they fired" complaints - because the system is now prioritizing the firers' state over your own - it was a hit on their client, you're just wrong and weren't actually behind the wall when they fired...
@ix-indi-xi said in hitreg:
@goldsmen Huh?
games like ARMA which are HUGE open world sims with hundreds of players on a server use projectile, those are decade old titles...
Nothing ''new'' in terms of gaming.Probably just messy coding that they kept overlapping over time would be my guess why hitreg would probably never go away.
That and a heavily edited Unreal Engine 4 that they run their game on.ARMA is pretty buggy.
@d3adst1ck
Consider that the majority of the time in sea of thieves, you are on the seas on your boat, they can't even fix basic bugs on one of the most spent time areas (Your ship).Arma also has thousands of community plug-ins, mods that can also affect how well the game performs, Multiple maps that are bigger then sea of thieves, that have to accommodate hundreds of complex NPCs/ Vehicles etc.
SoT doesn't have any mods (Outside of cheats)@ix-indi-xi I just thought it was a weird game to use as an example, when it has loads of its own problems (hit reg being among them as well) even when just running stock without mods.
@pithyrumble said in hitreg:
Do you know how to fix it then?
Joke, maintaining in memory, on disk and server to server state data is basic skills that every single engineer on staff should know.
@tossico94 said in hitreg:
I didnt make a PVP game,why u ask me? Why i should give solution to a problem i didnt created? XD
Funny lady.
If shes implying it how i think, then she is basically implying that if you dont have the skill to address such a complex issue, dont treat it like such an obvious easy thing.
This game uses a brand new system that, my bets, no one has ever seen for projectile based weapons that keeps track of the direction and speed you were moving at the time you fired your weapon, and maintains that directional momentum with the projectile. Its not a simple issue to fix or prevent when this is probably the only game that uses that system in the world.
To my knowledge Rare did not invent projectile physics calculations and bullet drop algorithms that simulate how projectiles move through the air and are affected by momentum. That kind of thing has been in games as early as 2002.
Most modern shooter games like Battlefield, COD and even games like Ghost Recon use a more complicated system that simulates bullet velocity as it is being affected by distance, wind resistance, momentum, shooting through objects, etc. Projectiles in SoT completely ignore wind direction for example.
What SoT has that those games don't necessarily have is a considerable amount of physics calculations going on all the time with the way the boats move through the water and the players moving about on the boats and placing items around, etc.
Hit reg isn't an issue exclusive to SoT. Many shooter games experience this issue to varying degrees of severity. How each game developer deals with it is dependant on how their game is coded and I'm willing to bet it also has a great deal to do with the stability and integrity of their server infrastructure.
@vakrisone said in hitreg:
@tossico94 said in hitreg:
I didnt make a PVP game,why u ask me? Why i should give solution to a problem i didnt created? XD
Funny lady.
If shes implying it how i think, then she is basically implying that if you dont have the skill to address such a complex issue, dont treat it like such an obvious easy thing.
This game uses a brand new system that, my bets, no one has ever seen for projectile based weapons that keeps track of the direction and speed you were moving at the time you fired your weapon, and maintains that directional momentum with the projectile. Its not a simple issue to fix or prevent when this is probably the only game that uses that system in the world.
To my knowledge Rare did not invent projectile physics calculations and bullet drop algorithms that simulate how projectiles move through the air and are affected by momentum. That kind of thing has been in games as early as 2002.
Most modern shooter games like Battlefield, COD and even games like Ghost Recon use a more complicated system that simulates bullet velocity as it is being affected by distance, wind resistance, momentum, shooting through objects, etc. Projectiles in SoT completely ignore wind direction for example.
What SoT has that those games don't necessarily have is a considerable amount of physics calculations going on all the time with the way the boats move through the water and the players moving about on the boats and placing items around, etc.
Hit reg isn't an issue exclusive to SoT. Many shooter games experience this issue to varying degrees of severity. How each game developer deals with it is dependant on how their game is coded and I'm willing to bet it also has a great deal to do with the stability and integrity of their server infrastructure.
I do know many games have hitreg issues, but i have never seen a game that actually changes the bullets direction based on how fast left or right you are moving, any projectile game i have seen always treats the bullet as if you were standing still at the moment of fire, wit something like fortnite for example, making it so if you move left or right, it just makes the bullet drift some, but doesnt base it on how fast you are moving, just if you are moving at all.
I do agree that server infrastructure does have a good bit to do with reg issues in this game, considering food and bucketing have issues as well, but those both only seem to have issues when in a server with some issues, while hitreg issues come up in even the smoothest of servers and are recreatable.
I do know many games have hitreg issues, but i have never seen a game that actually changes the bullets direction based on how fast left or right you are moving,
That's not what Sea of Thieves is doing. SoT is forward predicting the movements of other players for each player's individual perspective because there is so much lag involved (all the data has to go back and forth between at least 2 clients and the server).
So, if you're the one firing, the position you are seeing of the enemy on your screen is a forward predicted one - it is an estimate of where the other player is at that time, not where they might objectively be by the server state.
As the firer, you can have your shot be exactly on target according to the pixels displayed on your screen, yet miss anyway because the other player made a large change in velocity in between when their position was estimated for you and when you fired.
The server also does what's called backtracking - which is kind of the reverse of the above, it calculates where the firer would have hit at the time of their firing, ignores the forward prediction estimate, and determines if any other players actually moved into the target spot in that same time instant.
There is no real solution that isn't a trade off between the two above things because they are kind of mutually exclusive:
Give priority to the shooters perspective, and the shooters will complain less about "hit reg", but the people being shot at are going to complain more because it winds up looking like "bullet bending" from their end...
Give priority to the dodger's perspective, and there's less "bullet bending", but then the same people will moan about "hit reg" when they are shooting.
You literally can't have both. Your view and your opponent's views are only estimates, not guarantees. Live with it. Learn. Adapt.
@gravesilence272 There is definitely more that plays into reg issues, i was just listing 1 thing that likely has a large part to do with it considering patch notes on a previous update stated they improved hitreg on land. Its clear that more is in play than any 1 issue considering you can get bucket reg, food reg, anchor and even more other things that just fail to register.
a previous update stated they improved hitreg on land. Its clear that more is in play than any 1 issue considering you can get bucket reg, food reg, anchor and even more other things that just fail to register.
The issues with forward prediction and backtracking in order to sync client states is simpler on land, because then all parties are moving within the same reference frame.
On land, it is much easier to find a good balance between the two that satisfies most players.
On a ship at sea, the difficulty in making accurate forward predictions and backtracks, quite literally squares or cubes the problem: instead of just two players moving relative to the land, each player is moving relative to different frames (their ships) and their ships are also moving.
It winds up being essentially the butterfly effect: when at sea, small initial differences in player movements or ship movements quickly multiply with each other and the variability of player predictions grows an order of magnitude faster over time, so when the forward predictions are off, it is MUCH more noticeable to the player.
With respect to "bucket reg" etc... that's really a different issue entirely than "hit reg" or client state sync. Having the game not react when you try to bucket or eat is an input parsing/network comms. issue; "hit reg" (in a technical sense) is basically ray tracing, ballistics and collision detection; when most people complain about "hit reg" in SoT though, they are usually complaining about forward client prediction and backtracking.
Input registration issues can be caused by a number of things - could be mechanical or timing errors on the client (e.g. client hardware glitches), could be packet loss on the network, or even overly aggressive anti-cheat trying to filter out fake input packets.
Sometimes when you press a button the keyboard just doesn't send a signal.
Sometimes when it does, the input is discarded by the OS because of scheduling/timing issues (especially with USB devices that no longer use hardware IRQ interrupts).
Sometimes when the input data is sent over the network by the game, it isn't received by the server, and when the input is re-polled, you're no longer pressing the same keys...
Sometimes even when you use the correct timing on the client, the server has different data and cancels your action because your timing is wrong according to the server.
Most of these things are entirely out of the control of the game devs. Due to the nature of computers, software and the internet, these issues will never go away completely. All game devs can do is plan for them and do their best to compensate for and mitigate them however they can.
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