Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.

I am a pretty passive player, I solo Sloop mostly and as a result try to avoid combat. I am completely against this idea - so no, the only people against it are not just the people who play that way. I am all for those folks having the freedom to attempt an attack on anyone they feel like attacking. Don't try to skew things and speak for others please.

Me, I tend to outsail them 9 time out of 10 - and I can live with the times that they catch me. Combat avoidance is a skill in this game, it takes time to hone it (just like the combat itself), but you can and then avoid the vast majority of conflicts when you feel like avoiding.

@chinagreenelvis It's almost like the game was designed to be this way. It is a pvpve game. We are meant to be able to attack anyone at any time.

There is no where safe. You need to understand this is intentional.

Several things wrong with your reasoning on this.

@chinagreenelvis said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

Wait, let me stop you right there. "The game is called what now? Sea of what? What is the game called," you ask? Well, the game isn't called Sea of Merchants but there sure is a merchant's guild with merchant missions. Last time I checked, there was only one faction for destroying ships, and it's the Reapers.

False. Easily debunked by the fact there was no Reapers in the beginning days of the game - only Gold Hoarders, Order of Souls, and Merchant Alliance. And whose to say a merchant isn't an unscrupulous kind, preferring to get his merchandise from others.

So yeah, you have all the logic you need right there to provide reputation-loss for people who attack non-emissary ships with white flags raised. Just because it's a sea of "thieves" doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for running around, shamelessly and wantonly destroying every single ship you ever come across. It would only stand to reason that if you ran that way, the people of the world would start to dislike you.

No reason they should be penalized for playing the game as designed and intended. Just because YOU don't agree with that type of playstyle does not invalidate it. If someone wants to play as a merciless marauder, that is fine as long as they are not being abusive or toxic (talking about actual toxicity, not you getting your feelings hurt because you got sank being unprepared for the attack). Pirates were not bastions of society by any means, they were cutthroats...many burning down entire cities just because they could. Don't believe all the romanticized tales about them.

You can't trust people to PVP with sportsmanship. You can only have lazy game mechanics that allow them to do whatever they want because they don't account for the players who fire up cheats and murder everything all the time forever. You're smart people, you can figure out a way to handle that in a game called Sea of Thieves.

Since when did "sportsmanship" ever matter to a Pirate or thief for that matter? If you see or suspect someone of using cheats, report them to Rare & Microsoft and they will deal with them (if the report is valid that is, many skilled players get falsely labeled as hackers/cheaters by poor sports that lost to them or mistake server glitches for hacks).

By the way, the game also isn't called Sea of Trigger-Happy Cannon Murderers. Just because you're a thief doesn't mean you blow up everything that ever comes near you.

Nothing says they can't either. Perhaps they prefer to eliminate the competition on order to gather the loot without resistance. Not all thieves are peaceful or stealthy. On that note, there are very few stealth options in the game so the brute force tactic may be the only way to safely gather loot from others.

The only people vehemently protesting a system that fails to reward (or indeed punishes) these kinds of players... are these kinds of players.

Again this is blatantly false. I myself am generally a peaceful player, yet oppose any such safety net like you propose. The object of the game is to play while having to deal with other players, peaceful or not. Sometimes you have to protect what you gather, you are not entitled to a free ride just because you prefer to play pacifist.

@chinagreenelvis said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

It's bad game design to just say, "Here, everyone kill everyone and everyone gets rewarded for killing everyone." That game gets old very, very quickly.

Already the game incentivizes the Reaper players to go after emissaries; it only makes sense to also have rules that pull in the opposite direction. Provide the right ruleset and you can easily balance it out. Maybe the flag makes you progress more slowly and earn less money while causing reputation loss or some other form of punishment to those who come after you? Already you've made the game more complex and interesting, instead of just saying, "No, it's Sea of Thieves, let's ignore the PVE and just have PVP completely ruin it for those who aren't up for it in any given game session."

The game incentivizes everyone to go after everyone, not just reapers.

@chinagreenelvis said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

@d3adst1ck

"You should probably start thinking about the type of game you are playing."

A bad one that has potential to be better.

You can't even handle criticism about a game you didn't design. Do you think Sea of Thieves is 100% perfect? Give me a break.

You should realize this game is awesome. and if you need to make such a radical change to the game play, you are in the wrong place

Its not something you can control, nor can rare. The amount of hate this would bring would be too much to handle, and this post will soon be locked and explained that this is a feature not even contemplated being brought to the game by rare.

You can't trust people to PVP with sportsmanship

True. Sweaty players can't see from all the water covering there eyes.

Just because it's a sea of "thieves" doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences for running around, shamelessly and wantonly destroying every single ship you ever come across.

Tell that to the Skeleton Ships, Kraken, Meg, Phantom Ships and islands that attack your ship for simply getting to close.

Just because you're a thief doesn't mean you blow up everything that ever comes near you.

Just because they are skeletons doesn't mean they have to attack you when you dig up treasure or blow up a keg near you. So yeah.

@d3adst1ck said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

@chinagreenelvis said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

@d3adst1ck

"You should probably start thinking about the type of game you are playing."

A bad one that has potential to be better.

You can't even handle criticism about a game you didn't design. Do you think Sea of Thieves is 100% perfect? Give me a break.

That's quite a leap in logic based on my criticism of your flawed idea. Sea of Thieves isn't perfect but your idea doesn't make it better in my opinion.

Nor mine. Nor Rare's either or they would have done something to prevent it by now.

Once someone presses the "Set Sail" button in game, they've opted in to the possibility of combat.

/end thread

@chinagreenelvis said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

@redeyesith

Just because you enjoy being chased doesn't mean other people do.

Well, when you play a PvPvE game, conflict with other players is something one should expect. If you aren't prepared to encounter conflict in such a game, this is a failing on the part of the player.

Besides, I never said a white flag should make you invulnerable. You obviously have no idea what de-incentivizing means.

Who are you replying to here. This has nothing to do with what I posted, and is making a bold assumption about my understanding of gameplay mechanics.

Game theory proves that when players are allowed complete freedom, the most ruthless and heartless and unconscionable players will always win. This is not an ideal environment for maximizing enjoyment for everyone. You can't trust players to make a game world like this a better place without having guidelines to skew them away from relentlessly attacking everyone and everything.

Games are for everyone, but not every individual game is for everyone. We all have different tastes. Trying to appease everyone tends to result in appeasing no one of a minority of people. It muddles things. I would much rather see something developed with a specific vision, accepting that it won't be for everyone but those who are into the concept will enjoy it quite a bit. I have been around for all these years enjoying the game because it is the kind of game I enjoy (among others).

Heck, most times I go hours upon hours without even seeing a player, or only seeing them on the horizon. The world space is fairly big. It was originally designed with having 6 Ships in the Map with an intent of having players encounter other players every 15-30 minutes. Since then, we added the Devil's Roar and reduced the Ship count on a server to 5 Ships. So even more map area (which would space out encounters) and even less Crews (which further spaces out encounters).

We constantly hear people come here and say things like "I hate that I stack loot for 3-4 hours and then lose it all to some sweat" which implies going HOURS without seeing other players or being engaged by them. That is a far cry from the original design intent anyways - a carrot for those who wanted a little bit more peaceful of a time. This really hurt the PvP side of things, but now we finally have the Sea of Bones which helps alleviate that.

There are also rules for the game. Targeting specific players consistently is against the rules and can result in bans, being toxic in comms is against the rules and can result in bans. PvP, however, is part of the PvPvE experience, so simply attacking people is not against the rules. Stealing Loot from people is not against the rules (there are even Commendations and Achievements based around these things).

A big thing with this game is the fact that you DON'T lost progress that you actually make - Rep doesn't go backwards, Coin can't be taken from you. Things like Seasons have been added so even if you can't manage to successfully complete Voyages and get that handed in to gain Rep/Coin you're still rewarded with both Cosmetics and Coin for your efforts. The game is very forgiving so you don't have to be afraid of the PvP aspects of it.

If you really don't want PvP, then a PvPvE game is probably not for you. Much like a straight PvP game like CoD would not be for you. Me, I like PvPvE games and I like PvE games. I don't tend to play straight PvP because I enjoy having that PvE facet in my gaming. But, when I go the PvPvE route, I don't get upset when the PvP part of that happens.

In the long run, its not fair on anyone apart from people like you who want some kind of peace system. There are titles in this game that signify that people are good at being these "Trigger happy cannon murderers" you talk about, indicating that rare themselves reward people for being good, true pirates. Yea this games fantasy, but it has some realism to it, like the aspect of having the ability to be a bloodthirsty killer.

@electro226 There is no separate PvP Mode. The Arena was closed months ago. The new Guardians vs Servants takes place in adventure and helps you find people to fight faster.

Adventure mode is pvp, always has been, always will be. And if you can't engage because people are already on your boat, it's because they got one enough to get there with out you knowing.

The more you complain about this, the more I think this game might not be for you. That's okay, not all games are for everyone.

@chinagreenelvis No... The whole purpose of this game is to be under constant threat of PVP, the PVE in this game is designed to be easy and non-challenging, but time consuming to maximize the risk of PVP. Anything the disincentivizes PVP is unhealthy for the game.

@chinagreenelvis ok but what happens when that “white flag” disappears and you keg the other crew or with the “white flag” still up you keg the other crew. If you don’t like pvp and or can’t seem to win.

A. Keep an eye on the horizon, insane how many people don’t do this.

B. Put in a bit of time on pvp. The game becomes a lot more fun when you can hold your own some.

C. This is another way of asking for PVE server type mechanic and Rare has already said NOPE.

Good luck out there brotha

All factions are allowed to sink any ship, reapers isnt intended as the sole ship sinking faction. Rare intends the game so that ANYONE can attack who ever they see, even if you are part of an alliance you are allowed to attack and sink others regardless of flag or faction. If some one isnt part of reapers, that doesnt mean they cant benefit off of the loot on your ship, and if you have no loot, they may not trust you and would rather sink you than risk you being in the area that they are doing stuff.

Having a white flag only means you dont intend to attack others, but it doesnt mean you wont be attacked by others. Always keep your cannons ready, even if some one seems friendly, they can attack at any time.

@dlchief58 said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

Again this is blatantly false. I myself am generally a peaceful player, yet oppose any such safety net like you propose. The object of the game is to play while having to deal with other players, peaceful or not. Sometimes you have to protect what you gather, you are not entitled to a free ride just because you prefer to play pacifist.

Absolutely agreed! I dont actively seek out ships, but i would rather not have a way to bar them from attacking me. In my early days of playing, i was always on edge for other ships coming at me, and it was scary and exciting. If that was shut off, then it would just feel bland after a few days of digging.

Now i stack loot and constantly hope for some one to challenge me for that loot! Fear and paranoia of other ships gone, and if i had a safety net of any sort when i started, i probably wouldnt have discovered what is now my favorite way to play!

@electro226 said in Attacking ships with white flags raised should be de-incentivized.:

The gatekeeping for this game is assinine.

"Get good or quit" seems to be the average response here.

Okay? Then new players will quit and your game will slowly die instead of growing.

Retractable ladders seems like such a simple and healthy solution to keep everyone happy (except for the try-hard griefers, but I don't understand why we are pandering to them above all else).

It's not gatekeeping, It's literally just expecting people to play the game. There is a learning curve to multi-player games. Is it too much to expect people to learn?