Captaincy: Specialist Roles

I love it conceptually aside from one little nugget...

At the start of a session, the player would "purchase" a class at the shipwright. (Having it something you need to opt in to at an outpost prevents switching too easily and it's probably the easiest way to implement a cooldown).

This would really put a limitation on small crews...especially solo players. I agree that there should be a brief cooldown for changing rolls, but I feel like this is something that could be done on your ship at the weapon/vanity/tool/clothing chests/and on the ferry. Maybe a 30 second cooldown? 45 second cooldown? Whatever...some sort of cooldown.

It would also need to be done such that there only be one "specialist" of each type per crew. And if you do not select a "specialist" position, you are just at the current defaults (I assume that's the idea, but I didn't read that anywhere so I wanted to call it out).

I like the idea, however I could only see this working if we had Galleon/Brig only servers and I think it would certainly enhance the gameplay. Perhaps a better developed matchmaking (open crew) could be worked on. Trying to implement methods where open crew would be just that - open crew and not a random troll fest. Humans are unpredictable, but with the new implementation of Captain milestones, Rare should be able to statistically weed out bad apples from good ones and put players with similar skill sets.

But if such thing at current state would be very unfair vs Sloops. I think the only time Sloops really have a chance (unless they are godlike skilled) is when the Gally/Brig has poor teamwork. So even though they have number advantage and perhaps even skill in some aspects, good sloopers can still sink them. Now if we had dedicated roles, where everyone knows exactly what they will be doing, it would make sloopers life hell.

Cooked meat & high tier fruit are so common that a large buff in food capacity doesn't seem necessary. With your current proposal, I could see my regular crew making use of a cannoneer and bilge, and then leaving the other two roles as default.

To me, this seems more appealing:
Cannoneer: 14 cannonballs, 2 planks, 4 food
Bilge: 6 cannonballs, 10 planks, 4 food
Deckhand: 8 cannonballs, 6 planks, 6 food
Helm: 8 cannonballs, 4 planks, 8 food

I like the concept from a flavor standpoint but I don't really like that it gives in game advantages.
I could see it work like a set of roles that are available to pick in the vanity chest or something to this effect with some comendation attached to them.

"Repairs done" as a bilge, "shot fired" as a gunman, "food cooked" as a chef etc... unlocking a themed set of pirate cosmetic.

@mintharp184509 said:

Cannoneer reloads cannons slightly faster... Bilge scoops slightly more water and repairs slightly faster... Chef cooks food slightly faster and can hold 6 food... Helmsman less affected by broken wheel spokes and can turn the wheel slightly faster in general... Boarder 1 extra bullet for each gun and swims slightly faster

These are all just buffs. You'd need to add some debuffs to the roles in order to maintain balance. Otherwise, this would result in captained crews being too OP, compared to non-captained ones.

I like Styli's idea because there are no artifical skill buffs. Just a rebalancing of inventory that makes sense for each respective role.

Are you a helmsman?

I've turned a wheel or two.

I very strongly dislike this idea. Sea of Thieves is built on the concept that you can take on whatever role you want at any given time. We shouldn't be pigeonholing people into choosing specific "classes." Because that's what this is a suggestion for: a class system. In any other game, maybe. In a game with larger crew sizes for ships, sure. But in Sea of Thieves, absolutely not.

Additionally, adding a class system opens up another balancing nightmare: the fact that some classes will be better than others, resulting in the creation of metas where people will be flamed for not picking and playing the "correct" class when demanded.

There's a lot of feedback on this. Thank you all.

Not every idea is going to be a hit, but I appreciate the discussion is very constructively critical.

I won't reply to every comment, I'd be here all night, but I'll touch on a few things that jumped out at me.

"Default Pirate Role?"
Yes, the default role would still be an option - let's call it The Sailor. In many ways, that's the most-balanced role for smaller crews or if a pirate is a pretty good all-rounder anyway.

And, yes, I would think there could only be one pirate per role at any given time (excluding The Sailor). So there may be instances where remaining as The Sailor might be the better option.

"Some Numbers Seem OP"
That may be the case, and I wholly appreciate suggestions on how to tweak them better. I agree that my numbers for The Chef are a tad OP when it comes to food. Again, it's all about balance, there should be pros and cons to every opt-in role.

When suggesting other gameplay buffs, it's important to consider debuffs to offset it.

For instance, I had actually considered making The Helm less-affected by the damage to a wheel (as MintHarp mentioned), but that would need to be countered by a debuff such as slightly slower cannon load and repairing.

I think it starts getting really complicated when you go down that route, however. But worth considering, nonetheless.

"There's No Need For This"
There's rarely a need for anything in Sea of Thieves (sitting, burying, playing instruments) and the idea really is to give folks, especially ones who are more skilled in certain areas, a way to lean into their playstyle - to roleplay, if you like.

"Why Opt-In At An Outpost?"
That's not an essential component at all, but I figured as that's where you "purchase" other things it would be easier to implement and with a cooldown. Otherwise, you would need another interaction on ships - which I feel are already very cluttered. Having it at the Shipwright seemed like the logical, simplest solution.

@realstyli said in Captaincy: Specialist Roles:

There's a lot of feedback on this. Thank you all.

Not every idea is going to be a hit, but I appreciate the discussion is very constructively critical.

I won't reply to every comment, I'd be here all night, but I'll touch on a few things that jumped out at me.

---

"Default Pirate Role?"
Yes, the default role would still be an option - let's call it The Sailor. In many ways, that's the most-balanced role for smaller crews or if a pirate is a pretty good all-rounder anyway.

And, yes, I would think there could only be one pirate per role at any given time (excluding The Sailor). So there may be instances where remaining as The Sailor might be the better option.

"Some Numbers Seem OP"
That may be the case, and I wholly appreciate suggestions on how to tweak them better. I agree that my numbers for The Chef are a tad OP when it comes to food. Again, it's all about balance, there should be pros and cons to every opt-in role.

When suggesting other gameplay buffs, it's important to consider debuffs to offset it.

For instance, I had actually considered making The Helm less-affected by the damage to a wheel (as MintHarp mentioned), but that would need to be countered by a debuff such as slightly slower cannon load and repairing.

I think it starts getting really complicated when you go down that route, however. But worth considering, nonetheless.

"There's No Need For This"
There's rarely a need for anything in Sea of Thieves (sitting, burying, playing instruments) and the idea really is to give folks, especially ones who are more skilled in certain areas, a way to lean into their playstyle - to roleplay, if you like.

"Why Opt-In At An Outpost?"
That's not an essential component at all, but I figured as that's where you "purchase" other things it would be easier to implement and with a cooldown. Otherwise, you would need another interaction on ships - which I feel are already very cluttered. Having it at the Shipwright seemed like the logical, simplest solution.

This isn't a good argument. Several of the things you mentioned under "rarely a need for anything" are far, far better than a direct class system for Roleplay, because they fit into Rare's guiding principle for the game: Tools, not Rules. Tools such as being able to bury treasure, or play musical instruments, don't directly affect stats like your class system would. In fact, your class system violates this basic game design principle by introducing new rules which players need to abide by, rather than giving them new tools to use as they wish.

@blam320 said in Captaincy: Specialist Roles:

This isn't a good argument. Several of the things you mentioned under "rarely a need for anything" are far, far better than a direct class system for Roleplay, because they fit into Rare's guiding principle for the game: Tools, not Rules. Tools such as being able to bury treasure, or play musical instruments, don't directly affect stats like your class system would. In fact, your class system violates this basic game design principle by introducing new rules which players need to abide by, rather than giving them new tools to use as they wish.

By that logic, the existing pirate loadout restrictions are "rules"?

@realstyli said in Captaincy: Specialist Roles:

@blam320 said in Captaincy: Specialist Roles:

This isn't a good argument. Several of the things you mentioned under "rarely a need for anything" are far, far better than a direct class system for Roleplay, because they fit into Rare's guiding principle for the game: Tools, not Rules. Tools such as being able to bury treasure, or play musical instruments, don't directly affect stats like your class system would. In fact, your class system violates this basic game design principle by introducing new rules which players need to abide by, rather than giving them new tools to use as they wish.

By that logic, the existing pirate loadout restrictions are "rules"?

There are no loadout restrictions. Two weapons is standard in the game industry, and we're already allowed to combine any two of the four weapons.

@blam320 said:

There are no loadout restrictions... we're already allowed to combine any two of the four weapons.

And there wouldn't necessarily need to be restrictions for something like this either. It's not a permanent class, one could choose to be whatever they want to be in each session. However, it would require this to change:

"Default Pirate Role?"
Yes, the default role would still be an option - let's call it The Sailor. In many ways, that's the most-balanced role for smaller crews or if a pirate is a pretty good all-rounder anyway.
And, yes, I would think there could only be one pirate per role at any given time (excluding The Sailor). So there may be instances where remaining as The Sailor might be the better option.

I think if a crew wanted to run with 4 bilges, all the power to them lol. It still wouldn't be OP, since there are no artificial skill buffs; and even though their inventory has a buff in planks, it has a debuff for literally everything else.

Four cannoneers? Sounds cool if they can pull it off, but if they start taking too many holes, oof.