Help Me Understand

It was a competitive game mode.

The RNG of PvE makes the outcome less skill-based. This is okay for Adventure, because even though we can compete with each other, its not required that we do.

When you want to see who is the best naval crew in a lobby, it's best to keep as level a playing field as possible, and eliminate RNG that might shift the scale in one crew's favor over another's.

@madfrito99 said in Help Me Understand:

So it came to my attention that after Arena 1.0 came out the hardcore pvpers started complaining there was too much pve and wanted it removed/reduced.

This was granted and they pretty much removed all pve aspects minus sharks. sorry digging up a chest is not pve…chest is not an enemy and you dont have to beat an enemy to obtain it. your fighting against other players for it.

so why was there no uproar about them removing an aspect of the game to conform to pvpers wants?

There is a lot of misunderstanding on this "issue" due to a lot of people's preconceived notions as to what constitutes a PvP mode....on both ends of the spectrum.

Many of the hardcore "sweats" (for lack of a better term, I don't like it personally due to the negative connotations given to it) tried to claim that it wasn't a PvP mode, which is entirely untrue as it pit players versus player...the very definition of the abbreviation/acronym! Many of those players have a very narrow (but ultimately incorrect) definition of PvP thinking it only happens when players are killed by others for score such as in death match or battle royale type modes. Arena wasn't designed that way, it was an objective based mode much like capture the flag, escort the hostage, defuse the bomb, Griffball or even king of the hill modes of other games where the victory conditions were not based solely on who had the most kills or survived the longest but on completing specific tasks or objectives. While Arena in both iterations was a PvP mode, it just wasn't the one that the majority of those players wanted (as they wanted cookie cutter TDM or Battle Royale set in this game, which for the life of me I never got because other games do it much better already).

But at the same time, there were PvE elements still present in the mode. As the storm was still present in Arena, it is a PvE aspect you did have to battle (as it can cause you to sink). Sharks also still present. Remember PvE stands for Environment...and sometimes everybody, depending upon the game. So technically it is still a PvPvE mode, just a competitive one leaning more into the player versus player since score is kept.

So based on that analysis, you don't really have an argument here anyway. People weren't lobbying to have "PvE" removed from Arena (well some were by trying to remove the storm), they wanted a different form of PvP in Arena. There is no hypocrisy here to address, just some misunderstanding. So you cannot in good faith use this as another justification for your "we need a PVE mode" rants as you are manufacturing the drama to begin with based off misinformation and misunderstanding.

And none of this discussion pertains to Adventure so don't even try to link your false narrative here as a reason to push your failed agenda.

@dlchief58 said in Help Me Understand:

Arena wasn't designed that way, it was an objective based mode much like capture the flag, escort the hostage, defuse the bomb, Griffball or even king of the hill modes of other games where the victory conditions were not based solely on who had the most kills or survived the longest ut on completing specific tasks or objectives.

Thinking about Arena and reading this part just got me thinking: Rare could/should have used some of the ideas around here to make a more PvP-focused mode instead of Arena.

Perhaps it's just two ships (i.e. teams) fighting each other in an epic naval battle. They could be bigger ships (i.e. the Black Pearl design), and perhaps they could event incorporate the rope-swinging to board the other ship.

Perhaps AI could control the steering of the ship so players are simply responsible for sails/bucketing/fighting but essentially the goal would just be to sink the other ship.

@MadFrito99 To address the request for PvE focused servers; there are groups of players who get together and form alliance servers. They can be a hassle to form but can be effectively the same thing as what you are asking for. They can be found by doing searches online and/or watching for announcements on the LFG section on the xbox bar.

@dlchief58 said in Help Me Understand:

Arena wasn't designed that way, it was an objective based mode much like capture the flag, escort the hostage, defuse the bomb, Griffball or even king of the hill modes of other games where the victory conditions were not based solely on who had the most kills or survived the longest but on completing specific tasks or objectives.

To add onto this:

I think what we need to realize is that Rare was never really capable or was looking for a hugely competitive game mode that was JUST pirates fighting non-stop, it's a format that works for E-Sports, but Sea of Thieves' way of doing things is letting chaos decide a battle in a score attack contest like Arena, they already changed the way the game mode worked once, and it was simplifying and shortening how Arena 1.0 played out.

Arena was imo, never good, never fit for PvP, and despite PvP players crying eternally for a complete rework of the game mode, Rare felt that what they made was perfect. Of course, since no one played it and it started to cause issues when new things in Adventure started seeping into Arena, they gave up on it because they made an unappealing game mode that was infested with players full of the worst attitudes I've seen in gaming since CoD BO2.

Also there was an uproar when Arena was announced to be closing, but the only people who noticeably suffered were large named streamers who had to deal with very angry PvP players looking for them instead of TDM'ing on a fort for the 5000th time that month.

PvPers weren't satisfied with Arena, and it's closure destroyed any little hope of their trust in Rare to fix what they continued to leave on the back burner. Meanwhile, y'all were having fun in Adventure before all that, right? @madfrito99 :)

I think the main issue with players critique of Arena has to do with how unbalanced it was. Storms would affect players differently, sometimes one crew would spawn in a storm while the other spawned safe, then you had the issue that some ships spawned closer to the treasure, and therefore already had a benefit against other ships. In a similar fashion, some ships would spawn closer to islands that had more treasure than others. Ultimately, I do remember players complaining about the Arena being updated, the reduced time given to each game, how the treasure chest did not provide enough points for selling, I would know, I was one to plain about Arena after the update came out. Overall the new mode was an unbalanced mess that basically watered down each fight to keeping a ship alive while the upper decks where fired to oblivion in order for crews to grind points off of it and win the match.

@madfrito99
No. PvPers asked for a version of the game that is focused on PvP, and got a miniature Adventure mode with a scoreboard.

If we're splitting hairs, Arena was a PvP focused mode that tests your PvE skill. Adventure is a PvE focused mode that tests your PvP skill (when you get attacked). Those modes are just two sides of the same coin...

PvE gets updated more often than PvP (which is a good thing). In the past year, we've got a lot of new ways to PvE. So PvE is getting things people are asking for. As long as it meets the requirement that you might get attacked while doing it.

PvE server advocates want a different game, and won't get it.

then they asked for reduced pve and got it

The only time this was ever true is in asking for certain PvE in Arena to be removed. Which is perfectly fine, because it's a competition and everything needs to be as balanced as possible. When Sirens were introduced into the game, they had a very quick spawn rate, and this was quite annoying in Arena. Arena players alerted Rare to this problem, and Sirens were removed in Arena. This was for the spirit of competition.
And taking that and jumping off into "Rare owes us PvE servers" is a pretty bad argument.

And before you say "But Ocean Crawlers and Sirens were reduced in Adventure! This is when PvP players reduced PvE!" The complaints about Siren and Ocean Crawler spawns in Adventure came from PvE players. Those PvP-only sweats that we talk about and never see, they only go on islands to get supplies, and never cared about those spawns. Reduction of Ocean Crawlers and Sirens was a PvE ask.

@madfrito99 said in Help Me Understand:

@dlchief58 you sound angry lol my point was this. pvpers asked for a separate mode and got it. then they asked for reduced pve and got it.

pve people ask and get nothing. seems fair right?

You sure have problems reading people and trying to create drama where none exists, as there is absolutely no anger or any emotion of the sort in what was written. Even more problems with comprehension of that is what you got out of that, as that was not what was said.

None of what you are saying happened. You are twisting facts yet again to suit your agenda, and failing spectacularly at it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Arena wasn't added due to "PvP" community asking for one, but rather due to the Battle Royale being at the peak of its fame at that time, so it's more than likely connected to that. Heck, I don't even think people were asking for one to begin with, but I might be wrong.

Arena was never a "PvP" mode. It was made as a packed version of SoT, for those who wanted to have a short SoT experience, but didn't have time for a full session. In other words arena 1.0 was the main game compressed into 24 minutes: Get chest, sink players.

Arena 2.0 was PvP oriented that be true, but it was never a pure PvP experience. For example, they kept the chest and yes, they kept the sharks in it, so you could still get screwed over by PvE and win without laying a volley of led at enemy vessel.

So there was no uproar as it was never purely PvP mode, and because not too many people cared about it, as arena was a secondary game mode, which wasn't really connected to the main game, other than through cosmetics you unlocked. All you could do in arena was earn a little gold and level up a single faction.

@madfrito99 said in Help Me Understand:

@dlchief58 you sound angry lol my point was this. pvpers asked for a separate mode and got it. then they asked for reduced pve and got it.

pve people ask and get nothing. seems fair right?

This is a misrepresentation of the situation. Arena was added by the developers to provide a concentrated version of Sea of Thieves. Mainly focused on providing a less time intensive version of the gameplay similar to how the developers play tested back in the day. You might want to look up what the developers have stated about the Arena.

It turned into a more PvP focused approach to try and make it more successful. The community approached it as such and based on the feedback that mode received they moved it to be more PvP focused. Even in that attempt the pure PvP community didn't even play Arena as intended, they simply used that area to TDM.

The idea that "PvP" people asked for the Arena mode is simply a false statement. There were literally zero requests for the mode before it was introduced, coming from someone that was around at the time. The whole game mode was a Rare decision to see if they could cater towards a the more time strapped people and potentially later on a more eSports platform for the game. Both concepts did not work out from a business perspective.

Additionally the PvE requests have never asked for a reasonable concept, they asked purely for a copy of the game without PvP. Something that would undermine the whole PvEvP premise of the game. Go check out the mega thread on the topic if you really care to see why Rare has chosen their stance.

Does it seem fair? Yes, it truly does. Rare did their due diligence and understand very well the game genre they are in. They even engaged with the community on both ends and made decisions that might anger either extreme side of the spectrum while staying true to their own vision.

There is tons of information about the topic, you seemingly are just trying to create an us vs them mentality to spark outrage.

@madfrito99 said in Help Me Understand:

@dlchief58 you sound angry lol my point was this. pvpers asked for a separate mode and got it. then they asked for reduced pve and got it.

pve people ask and get nothing. seems fair right?

Okay so you're basically asking for PVE servers once again, got it.

I don't know why you're always making topics disguising the fact it's yet another post about wanting PVE servers.

Frito, I know you and I hardly ever see eye to eye on this forum but respectfully I do have a serious question for you. Have you ever created a topic that wasn't just you complaining/inciting? Not trying to be ugly, asking you a real honest question here.