@limend said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
@galactic-geek
It has been removed from the vanity chest as well.
🥺
@galactic-geek nope mine is gone. I'm really annoyed. I like the beard. Didn't get me money back either.
@faceyourdemon ??? I know it sucks that they added a cosmetic just to remove it immediately but is it really THAT bad of a thing to remove something that has a past of being used to negatively portray a certain group of people?
Was fixing the accidental 1930s german imagery in the legend of the veil quest a big bad sjw moment as well?
Such a weird thing to get so worked up about
My personal thoughts on it.
I liked it and would have liked to see it stay but I don't feel entitled to it.
I haven't seen the specific feedback so I don't really wanna fight against people I haven't seen communicating or views that haven't been clearly communicated for me to take a look at.
I don't much like being fired up about things and would rather not be dismissive of feedback I haven't seen it and would rather approach it without significant assumptions.
I think I would benefit from being able to examine the feedback but I understand how polarizing it will be no matter what it is.
I don't wanna fight or see people fight over it so I look forward to moving on from it.
@peony7185 said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
@faceyourdemon ??? I know it sucks that they added a cosmetic just to remove it immediately but is it really THAT bad of a thing to remove something that has a past of being used to negatively portray a certain group of people?
Was fixing the accidental 1930s german imagery in the legend of the veil quest a big bad sjw moment as well?
Such a weird thing to get so worked up about
2 Things, Its not the end of the world that we are losing that beard but for someone who played since early alpha, ive followed every story that has occurred since launch and im beyond fed up with Rare going full SJW mode.
Secondly I dont see how asian beards depicted them negatively?? The long bearded master cliche was something they invented..
The part about Geemany i didnt understand.
@faceyourdemon said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
[…]
The part about Geemany i didnt understand.
My guess is this... first image has been replaced with the second.
The complainers don't know how (half) a swastika looks like...
Edit: was unfamiliar with the other rune... (see post below from @peony7185 )
@faceyourdemon The beard in question relates to fumanchu, if you'd like to look in to that it's a whole thing, and is often used in racist imagery/depictions of asian people.
In the legend of the veil quest book the 'Odal' iconography was used various times and relates to a certain very bad german party that cannot be named in these forums. My point however is that I don't understand how dealing with these things is so negative and horrible
I have also been around since the early alpha days and have zero clue what you are on about. They put something in the game, didn't realize it was bad and then promptly took it out when they were told.
@lem0n-curry There is many symbols associated with them not just swastikas
Search up the odal rune if you'd like
Also I didn't complain about any of these things, I didn't even know what they were until this happened but I think it's extremely fair for people to ask for things like this to be removed
@peony7185 said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
@lem0n-curry There is many symbols associated with them not just swastikas
Search up the odal rune if you'd like
I just did, thanks for the education.
@faceyourdemon said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
2 Things, Its not the end of the world that we are losing that beard but for someone who played since early alpha, ive followed every story that has occurred since launch and im beyond fed up with Rare going full SJW mode.
I do think there are people that make a hobby out of finding issues. I do think that there are people that manipulate as a hobby on these types of topics leaning towards outrage. Some businesses panic or try to use it to their advantage.
Encountering what appears to be cases of that along the way can be frustrating.
I don't think it justifies blanket dismissing actions and decisions that are in response to feedback by negatively labeling it sjw.
Imo if situations are not examined reasonably on an individual basis it's only going to make it more difficult to find common ground and solutions.
There are very few of these incidents and outside of costume/symbol alteration and removal I can't think of there being much else.
Imo the escalation of the reaction to designers making changes to cosmetics/content doesn't really fit what happened.
I do think that there is a consistent lack of transparency and a lot of vagueness when these things happen. That can contribute to more negativity.
I was a bit perplexed by this too, honestly. While I understand why they had to remove it, I feel like it wasn't the best choice. It's one of those scenarios where something was created with good intentions, and an unfortunate and toxic subset of individuals turned said idea/topic into something negative. I don't think that simply removing instances like these helps, or solves the problem, and certainly won't prevent people from being toxic.
From a gameplay perspective, I feel like this was a bad decision, because it further limits people's creativity and ability to make a character that they resonate with. Obviously they can do that with the plethora of other cosmetics, but I'm sure there are people that really wanted to rock that style of beard, and now they can't because some people were toxic about it.
@peony7185 said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
I have also been around since the early alpha days and have zero clue what you are on about. They put something in the game, didn't realize it was bad and then promptly took it out when they were told.
Then you were not following the game at all because I can name 6 of these cases, and thats without even trying to dig deeper.
Wont name them as I do not want to get scolded by moderators or get this post locked.
And what do you mean "realized it was a bad thing?" No its not a bad thing so dont state it like its a fact.
@wolfmanbush Since Rare wont name their reasoning behind this action and keep radio silence, we'll take it as its the reason.
Oh and ill definitely call it SJW drama because thats what it is, cant find common ground when you just call the shots without a discussion. Too late for that.
Can Rare do that? Absolutely! But it dosent mean we have to like it.
@faceyourdemon said in Eastern Winds Jade beard disappeared from shops outpost:
@wolfmanbush Since Rare wont name their reasoning behind this action and keep radio silence, we'll take it as its the reason.
Oh and ill definitely call it SJW drama because thats what it is, cant find common ground when you just call the shots without a discussion. Too late for that.
Can Rare do that? Absolutely! But it dosent mean we have to like it.
I value transparency and would like to see more of it when possible.
I've gone through feedback/reactions to this decision and it brings out a significant amount of escalation that goes beyond what is happening within the game and it creates a lot of opinion heat.
This creates a situation that they refer to as witch hunts on the site. A concern here and the fragility of discourse is that people being fired up about their feelings towards "sjw" related decisions will personally attack people that agree with the decision to remove the cosmetic.
Escalation is the issue, where it goes beyond personal opinions into large scale personal attacks against people that feel differently.
I like the cosmetic but if it becomes an issue where the situation is escalating it's understandable that they avoid getting into details so that the heat can be brought down, there will be negativity about it but I think we all benefit by trying to deescalate the situation so that people aren't targeted in cruel ways for their views.
This is one cosmetic in a game, maybe we can get an altered version sometime in the future but imo it's not something that should be used to fight larger ongoing cyber battles that really just result in people being unkind towards strangers.
I had this lengthy, well-thought-out post about my take on this; hoping to add some civility to a discussion that seems to be neglecting the more salient issues.
Then after hitting "submit," I learned that some of the important terms I wanted to use were restricted. Seriously, Rare? Lol.
So I deleted the whole thing. And all I'm going to say is this: 1) it's difficult to explain why this was a good decision, if we can't explain why this was a good decision. 2) Hopefully y'all review things internally with a bit more scrutiny in the future. We all slip up. This was a learning experience.
@d-overmind Ahoy matey!
I wasn't going to wade in here... but just going to have to clear this up now.
There was no state interference here, but our CM team who are based all around the world and moderate platforms you probably have never even heard of brought this to Rare's attention and they swiftly took action.
Some racial stereotypes cause a lot of upset, and anger and should be treated seriously, and this is exactly what Rare did!
I bet if you looked hard enough we can find more "racial stereotypes" that can potentially offend certain people.
For example you could argue that the Midnight Blades Beard also looks similar to a racial stereotype called charlie chan. Eastern Opera Makeup can also be considered a naughty stereotype. The bone set and other similar cosmetics can also offend certain cultures as corpses/bones can be seen as "taboo". Many others can be seen as cultural appropriation.
I cant believe what I am reading, this is so ridiculous. My friend will be so dissappointed, he loved the new beard.
Why exactly can a group of people just claim a style and gatekeep it to the rest of the world? This beard wasnt an "asian" beard, it was just A beard. Just like how the bilge rat dreadlocks arent some specific race's property, theyre just a hair style.
I dont even know what this censored stereotype character people are referring to looks like so that association is an entirely personal problem. People DID have beards like that, even Sao Feng in PotC.
Does this mean that anyone who makes 10 or 20 fake accounts can spam the community managers with some race-baity outrage and have any cosmetics of their choosing be removed from the game?
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