Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?

  • The name of the game is "Sea of Thieves", and it is meant to be a PvPvE game. But as of late most players that attack me do so when I am clearly in no position to fight back and aren't even interested in my loot. So often to me it feels like I'm playing a PvP game by the name of "Sea of Bloodshed" instead.

    Take what just happened. I just spawned in and headed to an island for a quick commendation. Some captains spawned and I found some loot as well. Then another player came out of the blue and just started shooting. I very clearly told them I have no supplies (or interest currently) to put up a proper fight, and that they can just take my loot. I knew I was not experienced enough to outrun them, and we were both in sloops, so I also didn't even try that. But they just kept shooting, so I decided I should at least start some repairs. They must've wasted like 30-40 cannonballs trying to sink me (LOL), but they did eventually decide to ram me and set my ship on fire. And after that they just kinda hung around, shooting me as I fled to the island. They didn't even take any of the loot.

    Now how can you call that PvPvE? They just wanted to kill a helpless player who cannot even put up a fight and who clearly doesn't even have any loot to give, and didn't listen to their cries of surrender and willingness to give up what loot they have. I don't know about you guys, but it feels to me like too many players who are interested in combat are strictly interested in PvP. My friends agree with me on this, and we have all had this happen to us on numerous occasions.

    EDIT: To clarify, I'm fine with being killed in PvP for my loot. But I am not fine with PvPers not doing ANY PvE content. And this seems to be what happens all too often, judging by the amount of players who don't even have any skins to show (meaning they haven't turned enough loot or done enough PvE to have earned anything) and players who just shoot you for kicks and don't even take your loot. Even while doing events, sometimes they'll just swing by, shoot you, not take any loot (and don't even do the event) and disappear.

    Have we just been unlucky in regards to the types of players we encounter or is this how you're supposed to play the game? And how can this be resolved? How can PvP players be incentivised to do some PvE as well?

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  • Unfortunately, communication is so mismatched/broken/incohesive in this game that it's nearly impossible to rely on that as your means of trying to deter a battle.

    If you didn't have any loot or supplies and weren't interested in fighting, then why get upset over it? Scuttle and head back or grab a new server to get your commendation completed.

  • To clarify, I'm fine with being killed in PvP for my loot. But I am not fine with PvPers not doing ANY PvE content. And this seems to be what happens all too often, judging by the amount of players who don't even have any skins to show (meaning they haven't turned enough loot or done enough PvE to have earned anything) and players who just shoot you for kicks and don't even take your loot. Even while doing events, sometimes they'll just swing by, shoot you, not take any loot (and don't even do the event) and disappear.

    Have we just been unlucky in regards to the types of players we encounter or is this how you're supposed to play the game? And how can this be resolved? How can PvP players be incentivised to do some PvE as well?

  • @hotklou9848 said in Sea of Bloodshed?:

    Have we just been unlucky in regards to the types of players we encounter or is this how you're supposed to play the game? And how can this be resolved? How can PvP players be incentivised to do some PvE as well?

    There is no solution in a sandbox game. Players can hop into a server for whatever reason they want. Players enjoy different aspects of the game for different reasons.

    The "solution" is for Rare to not enable that style as much as they have. Chainshots galore and buyable supplies have been a godsend for those players. They can buy a storage crate and buy 50 cannonballs+planks. A fully looted outpost + each 50 stack means they're likely leaving the outpost with 120+ cannonballs, 100+ planks, a wealth of throwables and chainshots, and quality heals. It costs gold, but if that's all you ever need to fund, then ~30k in loot can be had pretty easily when you need it.

    Buyable supplies are here to stay, but I do think they could make some changes to other resources to put the balance back in favor of those that are producing on a server.

  • Well, at least you didn't call them toxic. But yes, sink and kill is all some players want to do. Again, if you weren't interested in your loot/supplies, just scuttle, change sessions or portal hop and take the fight option away from them.

  • One way I can think of to make PvPers want to do PvE more is to introduce more things like the tridents and the Skull of Ashen Winds - items that are obtained in PvE which can potentially be used in PvP to give you an advantage over other players.

    Making it harder for them to just stock up is also an option. Chainshots in particular are incredibly strong and yet are still very easy to get ahold of. They should have to work more to get them IMO.

  • @pithyrumble said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    Well, at least you didn't call them toxic. But yes, sink and kill is all some players want to do. Again, if you weren't interested in your loot/supplies, just scuttle, change sessions or portal hop and take the fight option away from them.

    Yeah shooting other players is part of the game. But so is PvE, and I think there is not a very good balance between PvP and PvE. I'm looking for some kind of solution to that.

  • @pithyrumble well to be fair that is toxic lol however i must say i dont come across alot of people engaging anymore…which is nice because it allows you to enjoy the game more…heck i did a fof yesterday alliancing with two other crews…0 issues…im seeing the game beginning to change to a pve focus maybe because the toxic types are leaving finally?

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @pithyrumble well to be fair that is toxic lol however i must say i dont come across alot of people engaging anymore…which is nice because it allows you to enjoy the game more…heck i did a fof yesterday alliancing with two other crews…0 issues…im seeing the game beginning to change to a pve focus maybe because the toxic types are leaving finally?

    In my experience too many of the players who engage with you at all are PvP sweats who care nothing about you or your loot or any PvE content. And too many of the rest of the players just completely avoid you. I usually just see people of the two extremes - full PvE or full PvP. I want to see more PvPvE players. So solutions to make the PvE players more willing to (and maybe make them actually want to on occasion) do PvP would also be welcomed.

  • This game is very heavily tools not rules, and a sandbox. The game is PVPVE yes, but that doesn't mean that players have to do both all the time. Some players genuinely just want to shoot and sink, PVP, or mess around, just as others, like yourself, just want to sail round, collect loot, and relax. It can be inconvenient and it can be annoying when someone comes along that interrupts your session flow, but its what they want to do, and the sandbox and tools allows them to.

    The game being PVPVE also means people are free to take part in the specifics that they choose. PVP players don't NEED to kill for the loot, PVE players don't NEED to go into every fight they come across. You'll have sessions like this where someone rolls up on you 5 minutes after leaving an outpost and you'll have sessions where you don't see another player ship for 2 hours, that's the beauty of the PVPVE sandbox, it's always something different.

    I'd say as long as players aren't spawncamping, being toxic, or exploiting/cheating, basically anything goes. They come over to sink you and you don't wanna fight back? Thats theirs and your prerogative, you just gotta be ready to accept the outcome, whether you let them or you run away. As others have said, if you didn't care about your loot, you could always scuttle or server hop and try again.

  • @madfrito99 It is NOT toxic to fight and sink other players. PVP in this game is not toxic. If players aren't actively being rude, mean, or derogatory over the mic, and are simply trying to sink you for whatever reason, whether loot or otherwise, there is 0 toxicity present. The game feels like it's "shifting to a PVE focus" because new players come in and the learning curve for naval and PVP is not instantaneous, so a lot of types keep to themselves and are afraid to step out of their comfort zone, and because player combat is not in its best place right now, with the continuous PVE focused updates the game has. I'm sure a combat centric update around balancing and strengthening the core PVP aspects would see an increase in people having the confidence to pick fights.

  • @silentkiller646 toxic definition: 2.
    very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way. therefore, someone who still shoots at you and sinks your ship after you tell them to take the loot and that you have nothing onboard is absolutely 100% toxic….now if he was running a emissary flag and they were a reaper…different story because they want the flag…you can try to link it in as being a pirate all you want but its still toxic…he was literally waving a white flag

  • @silentkiller646 and you might be right…if they had a big update where they overhauled combat in its entirety….ship and pirate…and made it way more fun i could see more people being engaging…but i have to disagree…its not about a learning curve people just dont want to fight other people period. its such a beautiful game that people want to enjoy…they dont want to be bothered fighting people for no reason

  • @madfrito99 But it's not toxic, definitions aside, it's sinking a fictional ship full of digital loot in a videogame, it's absolutely nothing to lose sleep over. They didn't want the loot, they wanted to sink a ship, and they did it with no actual toxicity or offense, they were simply playing the sandbox game as a sandbox, doing what they wanted to do. No reportable or bannable offenses committed, no harsh words shared.

    If he waved a white flag, then thats on him that they sink his ship and leave, there's nothing stopping him from running, fighting back, or scuttling and server hopping. You use the term toxic waay too loosely, because actual toxicity deserves attention and addressing, not some guys quietly sinking a fresh spawn for the hell of it. If they spawncamped him, that's noteworthy, if they insulted him over voice, thats toxic and reportable, but ultimately this was just an unfortunate occurrence for op, and i feel for them, but it's nothing more.

  • @madfrito99 still not toxic. he signed tbat consent form when he loged onto the game. Just because you wave the white flag does not mean I need to respect that. Sometimes all pirates must die and thats not being toxic thats just enjoying the sandbox

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    its not about a learning curve people just dont want to fight other people period. its such a beautiful game that people want to enjoy…they dont want to be bothered fighting people for no reason

    And that is totally fine, this game is gorgeous and an experience, but that experience is always at risk from some scurvy seadogs with fire in their veins, thats part of the game, part of Rare's ethos, and something that makes the game what it is. You can't call other players toxic and put people down for partaking in the whole other intentional and core facet of this game. Don't like it, either learn to deal with it with all the tools provided, or accept and move on from it.

    And there is never "no reason" for fighting, some people enjoy the thrill of the fight itself. They're fighting to have fun, you or someone else fights to defend yourself or your loot, etc. The only times i don't personally condone fighting are when someone is very clearly doing a tall tale, otherwise, it's pirate or be pirated out on the sea's.

  • @silentkiller646 @captaincoel lets break it down…he told them to take the loot and that he had nothing on board…at that point there is zero point to sink the ship…there is nothing to gain from it…so if they still kill him and sink the boat it is toxic because they are now intentionally doing something with nothing to gain…make sense now? you have to understand what being toxic means…its more then just spawn camping or harassing over mic…there are many ways people can be toxic in this game…i.e. you are solo slooping and you spot a boat coming by…u grab a gun powder barrel and sneak aboard…you wait 20 minutes and boom u set off keg instantly killing yourself and sinking thr boat…TOXIC…they had nothing to gain…no way to get loot (no boat nor did they know where we were because they were on bottom floor of boat). they were doing it to get their jollies..and btw this happened to me once…and on top of it i sailed passed them and did nothing so the fact they did that makes them even more toxic lol im the friendliest pirate ever…in my eyes i can get loot on my own…i dont need to ruin someones day by sinking them to achieve what i need…i rather put the work in and enjoy the game and journey

  • You have an emissary flag (any kind)... you sink.
    You are at the island we need to visit... you sink. (Just to make sure we can do our thing safely).
    You are at the outpost we need to visit... you sink. (Same reason as with the island).
    You sail too close to an event/fort that we are doing/going to do... you sink.
    You are doing an event that we want to do... you sink.
    We play as reapers... you sink. (Because of role playing.)
    You sail suspiciously, or flee to fast, indicating you might have lots of loot to loose... you sink. (This is what piracy is all about.)

    There are lots and lots of reasons to sink someone. Some crews even sink another ship because they are bored. Almost every reason is a (good) reason.

    Personal pirate doctrine:
    Me and my crew, generally just sink emissaries of any kind if we are reapers, and if we are any kind of emissary, we hunt for reapers. (However we do sink all Athena level 5s, as we still need those flags, and this is the only exception.) This is pure role playing. Also we do clear out island/outposts if we have business at them, and that is just for our own security. We also raid for supplies. While doing all this we try to play a role and use pirate talk (Yarr!) and emotes to keep the encounter fun.
    We always leave Tall Tale crews alone, and repair their ship if we attack one by mistake. We also leave clearly new players alone, and disengage if we can, and if they behave, (meaning not getting toxic in their talk). However if you do fly an emissary flag while doing a Tall Tale, we will sink you because an emissary flag means i want PvP.
    This is just our personal preference, and everyone has the right to play as they want. And as already mentioned, tools not rules.

    Just my couple of cents (gold coins?) on the matter,
    Ghostfire

  • @ghostfire1981 disagree…i fly emissary flag purely for ledger rewards….not looking for pvp at all…you like to sink people i get it….whether necessary or not…plenty of times ive pulled up to an outpost someone was already at and i just said i was friendly and went about my business with no issues

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @silentkiller646 @captaincoel lets break it down…he told them to take the loot and that he had nothing on board…at that point there is zero point to sink the ship…there is nothing to gain from it…so if they still kill him and sink the boat it is toxic because they are now intentionally doing something with nothing to gain…make sense now?

    To YOU, there is zero point, to them, they are sinking the ship because they want to. That's their prerogative, their goal. He gives up, says take the loot, whatever, then he is WILLINGLY giving up his stuff and his ship, he wants the ship, he needs to fight for it, or escape with it. Otherwise let it sink, scuttle, or server hop.

    you have to understand what being toxic means…its more then just spawn camping or harassing over mic…there are many ways people can be toxic in this game

    And you need to understand that you can't call everyone toxic just because they do something you don't like. There is nuance to it. Sure, it's "more than spawn camping or harrassing" but it's nowhere near as bad or offensive, it's playing the game, and interacting with the sandbox.

    …i.e. you are solo slooping and you spot a boat coming by…u grab a gun powder barrel and sneak aboard…you wait 20 minutes and boom u set off keg instantly killing yourself and sinking thr boat…TOXIC…they had nothing to gain…no way to get loot (no boat nor did they know where we were because they were on bottom floor of boat). they were doing it to get their jollies

    Yes, and they got their jollies, that's what they gained. That sounds like a fun sneak tuck play, and they pulled it off. "Nothing to gain" is not true, because they had fun. The thrill of hiding, the climactic explosion. If someone successfully boarded me, hid for 20 minutes, and blew my ship to smithereens, i would congratulate them, and have a laugh with them, cause it's a lot harder to sneak aboard a ship with a keg than you think. Want to avoid that happening? Tuck check every time you come back to your ship.

    ..and btw this happened to me once…and on top of it i sailed passed them and did nothing so the fact they did that makes them even more toxic lol im the friendliest pirate ever…in my eyes i can get loot on my own…i dont need to ruin someones day by sinking them to achieve what i need…i rather put the work in and enjoy the game and journey

    You sailed past a potential threat and did nothing, opening yourself up to said threat. It's okay to be friendly, it's okay to be honest and open, but you can never trust a pirate. Everytime a ship sails past me peacefully, i run a FULL tuck check on my ship just in case.
    A long time ago, i was doing the arduous grind to get all the Ashen tomes. Some sneaky scoundrel hid on my ship, and stole one of my Ashen Chests and sold it when i got the outpost right from under mine and my crewmates noses. I wasn't angry, i gave them a pat on the back, it was impressive. I NEEDED that Ashen chest, but i didn't care that i lost it, it was my mistake, and they pulled off a great tuck play.

    i dont need to ruin someones day by sinking them to achieve what i need…i rather put the work in and enjoy the game and journey

    Some people want to get loot in that way, that's fully up to them. Sandbox pirate game.
    And it's not "ruining someones day" It's a video game. Failed sessions suck i've been there, but i leave the game and am over it after 10 minutes. I'll either take a break or come back tomorrow, i lose nothing as long as i have something memorable from the session.
    At this point, agree to disagree. Some people don't like PVP, that's okay, some people find PVE boring, that's also okay, but we ALL need to respect eachother, and what eachother wants to do, all the while being ready for what comes your way, and if need be, be prepared to accept a defeat, gain a victory, or share a grog and have a laugh.

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @ghostfire1981 disagree…i fly emissary flag purely for ledger rewards….not looking for pvp at all…you like to sink people i get it….whether necessary or not…plenty of times ive pulled up to an outpost someone was already at and i just said i was friendly and went about my business with no issues

    Well, the reapers exist for one reason. They mainly hunt for flags and are the counter balance for the bonus you get for being an emissary. If you raise an emissary flag you get a nice bonus, but you also become a target. Me and many others see emissary flags as targets, they clearly have loot, as the whole point of the emissary flags is to make the loot you sell more valuable. So if you do not want to make yourself a target, dont fly an emissary flag.
    So that is the reason why many consider emissary flags PvP beacons.

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @ghostfire1981 disagree…i fly emissary flag purely for ledger rewards….not looking for pvp at all…you like to sink people i get it….whether necessary or not…plenty of times ive pulled up to an outpost someone was already at and i just said i was friendly and went about my business with no issues

    I don't even bother with flags anymore, just go out and get some animals, if murder hobos show up, set the animals on fire and leave. Gets some amusing messages.

  • Maybe they were busy with shooting enemies with the row boat cannon commendation.

    While it may be sour to know that they won't be doing anything with the stuff you dug up, what does it matter ?

    What if you found a keg on the other side ... a lot of players would have changed their tactics and try to sink them. They had every reason to shoot you.

    There is no surrender in this game apart from role playing.

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @silentkiller646 @captaincoel lets break it down…he told them to take the loot and that he had nothing on board…at that point there is zero point to sink the ship…there is nothing to gain from it…so if they still kill him and sink the boat it is toxic because they are now intentionally doing something with nothing to gain…make sense now? you have to understand what being toxic means…its more then just spawn camping or harassing over mic…there are many ways people can be toxic in this game…i.e. you are solo slooping and you spot a boat coming by…u grab a gun powder barrel and sneak aboard…you wait 20 minutes and boom u set off keg instantly killing yourself and sinking thr boat…TOXIC…they had nothing to gain…no way to get loot (no boat nor did they know where we were because they were on bottom floor of boat). they were doing it to get their jollies..and btw this happened to me once…and on top of it i sailed passed them and did nothing so the fact they did that makes them even more toxic lol im the friendliest pirate ever…in my eyes i can get loot on my own…i dont need to ruin someones day by sinking them to achieve what i need…i rather put the work in and enjoy the game and journey

    Sandbox. tools not rules. Those situations you described are perfectly NOT TOXIC. I dont need your permission to attack you or sink you or attempt to sink you, you gave that permission when you logged onto Sea of Thieves. What you view as toxic is nothing more than part of the gameplay loop.

    Doing things for the shenanigans is exactly the point of this game.

  • the game is a food chain

    everyone gets to do what they want to do but not everyone will win every time

    there is a problem in the game with over hunting at the top but in your case nobody hopped for you and it wasn't a highly skilled crew it was just a random crew on a server working out their own food chain situation

    both sides in that interaction need practice and it was an opportunity for both sides to get those reps

    In order for both sides to climb those types of situations are necessary and helpful in the end, that is amplified by you having nothing to lose anyway.

    even if you run from combat there are still valuable lessons to be learned about strategy and how to personally deal with situations you don't like or agree with. It's not just necessary for combat practice it's necessary for reps in processing common situations productively, based on your own preferences and gameplay.

  • @hotklou9848 opponents do not take loot because gold does not give anything in the game, an increased reputation for valuables stolen from you also gives nothing except skins

  • Welcome to the Sea of Thieves

  • @hotklou9848 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    To clarify, I'm fine with being killed in PvP for my loot. But I am not fine with PvPers not doing ANY PvE content. And this seems to be what happens all too often, judging by the amount of players who don't even have any skins to show (meaning they haven't turned enough loot or done enough PvE to have earned anything) and players who just shoot you for kicks and don't even take your loot. Even while doing events, sometimes they'll just swing by, shoot you, not take any loot (and don't even do the event) and disappear.

    Have we just been unlucky in regards to the types of players we encounter or is this how you're supposed to play the game? And how can this be resolved? How can PvP players be incentivised to do some PvE as well?

    Listen, learn one thing. Players without skin doesn't mean anything about them. The player can have 100% of the game and use a beginner skin, simply because he wants to do this. I'm more afraid of unskinned players than those who use the game's flashiest skins, ashen dragon for example.

  • Sea Of Tears

    Stay salty

  • @hotklou9848

    Sounds all rather anecdotal though, doesn't it? For one, players do not all behave the same and you mostly steer your encounters by how you behave and communicate. Secondly, these sound like new players from your account, you would have been killed and your ship sunk in really short shrift otherwise.

    Also sounds like a really messy affair tbh, 30 - 40 cannonballs and your ship was still afloat with you still repairing? I think you should have had a go really.. :-)

  • You are a pirate, do what you want because a pirate is free

  • @jojo-buddy-v2 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    You are a pirate, do what you want because a pirate is free

    ... aaaaand now it is playing in my head... again. :/

  • @madfrito99 said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @silentkiller646 toxic definition: 2.
    very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way. therefore, someone who still shoots at you and sinks your ship after you tell them to take the loot and that you have nothing onboard is absolutely 100% toxic….now if he was running a emissary flag and they were a reaper…different story because they want the flag…you can try to link it in as being a pirate all you want but its still toxic…he was literally waving a white flag

    Nah mate, don't start this. You're not derailing a topic with an overly skewed perspective that holds no water in a game where PvP can be an objective to a player. People sink people to fight and win, even if there is a forfeit, if you sink, you go away from where they are and they feel accomplished. End of story.

  • @wagstr said in Sea of Thieves or Sea of Bloodshed?:

    @hotklou9848

    Sounds all rather anecdotal though, doesn't it? For one, players do not all behave the same and you mostly steer your encounters by how you behave and communicate. Secondly, these sound like new players from your account, you would have been killed and your ship sunk in really short shrift otherwise.

    Also sounds like a really messy affair tbh, 30 - 40 cannonballs and your ship was still afloat with you still repairing? I think you should have had a go really.. :-)

    Yeah, I do think they were kinda new. At least 75% of those cannonballs all went to the same spot, so barely any new critical holes were made. The one or two holes that did let in water were easily outpaced with a bucket every now and again. And yeah I probably should've tried getting away, especially since they were obviously still new, but I was just amazed at how I was still floating and they were still floating. I was also kind of curious if they would give up at some point and accept my surrender.

  • @nex-stargaze there was nothing to win lol yay u sunk a boat that had nothing…i mean really? toxic pure and simple

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