Red Sea Mechanic Change

@sweetsandman well for one, your solution is a win-win for the runner, the chaser it is still a lose-lose. This pads that playstyle which is already a hot topic.

Honestly it needs to stay as-is since the current mechanics reward neither side of it. Unless you have a way of rewarding both sides like an active emissary flag traveling through a portal.

@kommodoreyenser what do you mean? If you're the chaser, just go to the outpost and collect the map that gets generated.

This idea is coming from a chaser, so I'm selfishly out to make sure the chaser doesn't get the short end of the stick in this.

@sweetsandman said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

@kommodoreyenser what do you mean? If you're the chaser, just go to the outpost and collect the map that gets generated.

This idea is coming from a chaser, so I'm selfishly out to make sure the chaser doesn't get the short end of the stick in this.

How do you determine which map(s) are the right ones? Especially if you never got onboard to see a player’s name? It would also be random islands, not necessarily one the ship was at before running. Also is the quest board not the entire game worth, not just that server?

@kommodoreyenser I'm fairly certain maps you post are just for that server. It was in some testing that I did with another player yesterday at least.

And if you never got aboard to see the players name, then you'll have to just grab any player generated map you see on the board, avoiding the computer generated ones (which are pretty obvious).

A random island was a thought, but maybe instead it should be a random island in the region that they were closest to when they went into the red sea. That would make it easier to hone in on which map(s) to grab.

Edited to generating the map on a random island to generating the map on a random island in the region closest to where the ship went into the red sea

@kommodoreyenser I feel the current mechanics are used out of spite. This new mechanic would create a fun race of who can get the map first, which would be unconventional PvP (something we don't really have right now).

@mrat13 said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

@kommodoreyenser This new mechanic would create a fun race of who can get the map first, which would be unconventional PvP (something we don't really have right now).

This is an added bonus. It adds another tactic to the game, too. If you think you can red sea, and head back to the region you went down in for a potential counter attack after raising Reaper while they're being forced to do PvE to dig up that loot.

Oh! This might be a way to work in another type of Voyage into the Quest Board actually.

What if, rather than spawning a X Mark Map it generated a Lost Shipment Voyage where you have to go looking for the remains of the wreckage and gather the Loot from there? These could also use different areas of the Map than the standard ones you get from the Merchant Alliance.

That could add some more diversity of activity to the Quest Boards which would be nice honestly.

@redeyesith @WolfManbush

Love variation.

Maybe if it's above a certain number of pieces of loot, it generates a unique quest type.

• Treasury
• Mini Ghost Fleet...thinking just like the final wave of an OOS Ghost ship voyage
• Mini Gold Hoarder Vault...thinking jjsy dig the final parchment that has the vault key
• Mini Lost Shipment Voyage that just gives a general location of the wreckage.

I do feel that the key to these would be generating the voyage finale in the region closest to where the ship went into the red sea.

Lol. You'll turn back to try and get a jump on the quest board.

Then I'll stop before the despawn point and let my loot sink and you still get nothing for bothering me.

☠😈🧜‍♀️

@sweetsandman I do like the idea of enough Loot actually triggering a different Voyage Type as well. Though that might be something to try considering in general as well.

@pithyrumble said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

Lol. You'll turn back to try and get a jump on the quest board.

Then I'll stop before the despawn point and let my loot sink and you still get nothing for bothering me.

☠😈🧜‍♀️

And that would be your prerogative. I'm sure there would be plenty of un-savvy hunters that would fall for it.

It's not a bad idea but the problem is that the ship that los the treasure and the battle might have a better chance of reclaiming the treasure than a ship on the corners or edges of a map as they would be closer to an outpost. This is kind of punishing the winning team for playing well. It works well in the sense that if both ship sink, then with a bit of rng on both parties, it becomes a sort of race for the treasure left behind which is ok in that sense

@red0demon0 There are a lot of different scenarios generating a lot of different fates for that loot if this were to be implemented.

There are ways that a spiteful crew could still prevent anyone from ever turning that loot in. There are ways they can get their loot back. There are ways they could never lose it at all. There are ways they can take the metaphorical 'L' and still get a 'W' for the rep and renown for the loot.

The strategies and stories you could create - both as a chaser and a runner - are endless.

@wolfmanbush said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

@red0demon0 said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

It's not a bad idea but the problem is that the ship that los the treasure and the battle might have a better chance of reclaiming the treasure than a ship on the corners or edges of a map as they would be closer to an outpost. This is kind of punishing the winning team for playing well. It works well in the sense that if both ship sink, then with a bit of rng on both parties, it becomes a sort of race for the treasure left behind which is ok in that sense

you're giving a win to someone that didn't get a win yet

technically the only one ahead in that scenario is the one that beat the other one to the red sea/ despawn location

It's becoming a bit difficult to respond since we are generalizing here but I'd say it doesn't matter where you beat the other crew in the game. The moment a ship sinks, it's considered a loss, having the ship that sinks the other survive on the edge of the map provides no incentive as to the treasure that they were hunting. In this respect, it might just be more beneficial to scuttle ship and respawn closer to outpost or forget about even chasing the treasure down. This isn't even to mention the fact that other ships might be closer to an outpost nearest to where the treasure sunk which gives them an advantage as well since the victor ship will need to go back to get voyage and then return.

@calico-jack3172 said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

Imo , there's no reason to compensate those who weren't able to catch a red sea runner ; otherwise , where's the so called "risk" ?

This isn't a means of compensating the chaser. This is a means of giving a fate to the loot beyond it just being deleted. There are many possible outcomes for the loot with a mechanic like this, including the runner getting it back themselves.

@sweetsandman

Sounds good on paper, but in practice might be a little prohibitive if there is a ridiculous amount of loot on the ship that recently sunk.

Buried loot kind of depends on players choosing what is worth burying on an island, and what is worth their time to bury, as a sort of filter.

This would bypass that and a ship that had plenty loot on board could potentially spawn a map (or multiple maps) with a combined total of a hundred x's on it.

@touchiertooth28 I mean, if this is only applying to the Red Sea out of bounds stuff, do we realistically think there are that many folks doing this with hundreds of Loot on board? Typically the people I see doing this are people competent at PvP as they have to fend off at least a few attacks in the time it takes them to acquire that much. Realistically, I don't see this making more than 2-3 Maps for a single Ship going down in probably 99% of cases.

@touchiertooth28

Instances where there are more than say 20 pieces of loot that are taken out of bounds, I think it would be neat to generate an alternate quest type instead of an X marks the spot map.

Either a mini Lost Shipment Voyage, A mini Vault Voyage, or a Mini Ghost Ship Voyage, or some other creative solution that would result in all the loot being dropped/unlocked upon completion of the voyage.

@fast-420 said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

@sweetsandman How about NO! Who ever has taken their loot to the red sea has decided what they want done with THEIR loot they collected it it is up to them what happen to it. My suggestion to you is change how you approach a ship and don't give them a chance to run. I've been sinking ships a long time and I can count on three fingers the times people have made it to the red sea.

Couple things...

• This seems to assume that the chaser is always the "bad guy" and the runner is always the "good guy". While that's probably most often the case, it's definitely not always the case.
• This mechanic still allows the crew that took the loot beyond the red sea and out of bounds to still "delete" the loot if they wanted to. They just have to get to the outpost and collect their map before anyone else.
• Fort keys are not considered loot, yet one crew can effectively take an entire vault of loot and take it out of bounds without ever touching it. Again, it's not always the "good guy" that's the runner here.

@sweetsandman not to mention that it isn't their Loot. Loot isn't yours until such time as you have handed it in and been granted a payout (which can never be taken from you). Up until that point, all Loot is contested technically as anyone could potentially take it and cash it in.

@redeyesith

It's already a solution to a niche experience. I've chased a ship into the red sea under 20 times since I've been playing. I have over 800 hours.

The closest (and IMO best) solution for the ship that is running is for them to chuck their stuff onto a rowboat and store it on the nearest island when they get attacked (ideally before).

The maps will disappear in the red sea anyway. And they will have an opportunity to retrieve the treasure if they remember the island and approximate location that they buried it.

@redeyesith said in Red Sea Mechanic Change:

@sweetsandman not to mention that it isn't their Loot. Loot isn't yours until such time as you have handed it in and been granted a payout (which can never be taken from you). Up until that point, all Loot is contested technically as anyone could potentially take it and cash it in.

Thank you, you get it. This is something that has been stated by the devs before as well, loot belongs to no one, not even those who dig it up. The only thing that is our is the rewards once they are turned in, outside of that, loot is fair game to all

@fast-420 possession is not the same as ownership.

@jonipsy6008 There could be a ton of different fates for that loot. I know that if this were to be implemented, and I looked down at my map and saw a Reaper headed into the red sea on the other side of the map, I'm going to be hanging out at the nearest outpost waiting for that map to pop up. 3rd party involvement could be really fun and interesting.

I really like the idea of those maps being "anonymous" as well. Great indicator for 3rd party action.

I find it annoying that every Red Sea Change idea someone gives involves still essentially just giving loot to the pursuit party when you clearly could not out play (ambush better) me.

I'm going to present a counter suggestion. Again.

Move the despawn wall further out. Increase damage and inflow so it's no longer possible to make it to thr despawn wall. Rowboats and swimmers start to take damage at a certain point (to stop hiding abuses by the runner). Loot floats. Has same sink timer. You can get it (back too) but at great personal risk.

Of course this doesn't favour the attacker but they should have gotten me before I got that far.