Alternative solution for PVE (Infamy system)

  • Dear Devteam,

    I know that many player required solo servers or PVE server, because other players had sunk there ship and stolen their goods. It is happend to us aswell, and it can be so fustrating after 6 hour of athena run....
    Anyway I know that as well that turning of the PVP is impossible, and the private servers are not a good solution (too expensive, and the world events like the kraken would break the experience). My solution is different. I would suggest to implement an infamy/honor system. Every pirat would have statistic that shows how many "crime" did they commit against other players. Whit the current log system in the game I guess it would be possible to track such event as stepping on other's ships, shoot with cannon to other player's ship, etc. These events would make a pirate more and more infamous. While events such as just passing by player ship, without trouble, or giving treasuer to others, sharing a drink would lower the infamous repution.
    And with this system, you should be able to seperate the players between the servers. So the really hardcore pirets who like to steal from eachother, and fight with eachother could be together, and those are more peacefull, and try to avoid the other ships, could be togehet on a different server session. So every player could enjoy their onw playstyle as they are amoung similar players.

    (Sorry for any mistake in my english)

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  • Infamy just encourages bad actors. These systems don't work like they should.

  • @personalc0ffee I know that such a system would encourage some player to have the worst repution possible. But all this players would end up on servers with each other. So there would be only "bad players". And those who dont commit such "crimes" would end up on servers with peacefull players.

    I am not sure if I can express myself well enough. The idea is not that to punish players for these acts, I know these are parts of the game. My aim would be that I could sail peacefully with other not intentionally hostle players around me. The possibility to be a "bad" pirate is still there, everytime.
    So the aim is to sepearet peacefull players from hostile players, and the infamy system would serve as a base of the decision.

  • Problems arrive when you want to play with your friends. Let's say person a his tryhard PvP'er and his friend person b is all in PvE'er with peace love and plants mind set. What would happen if they eanted to play together? What if naughty pirate joins his friend who's playing on the most friendly server possible?

    Also it's just a fact that matchmaking which puts peaseful players on same servers would create framing heavens. These would lead into alt accounts hopping for the most juiciest servers. Players would hop on their alts and then sell with their main accounts.

    You could prevent this stuff by not allowing peaceful players from playing with naughty ones but that would go against the games vision.
    (Will fix typos later)

  • The "naughty player" system will just divide instead of uniting as it happened in GTA5.

    In my opinion all players have the same rights to play with each other, in respect of the live Code of Conduct.

  • I think the best alternative solution for PvE is to simply be aware of your surroundings. Will this work completely flawlessly, no, you'll still sometimes end up having to defend yourself and take out other players (or be sunk by other players, or more often a little mix of both). However, I've found that just being vigilant in managing what is going on around me allows me to avoid most conflict if that is what I am wanting to do (which is typically when I am working solo as, not being a top PvP player, I find myself too disadvantaged personally when I end up in a conflict, so I elect to avoid them, if I have even one other crewmate I'll be very open to conflict).

    The reality is, no system will be perfect in this regard, so for the kind of game that SoT strives to be the best solution on offer is that personal accountability through keeping a watchful eye in the horizon.

  • Punishments for PvP actions in the game would need rewards to balance it out no matter how a player "feels" about it. Additionally, Rare has never introduced a mechanic to divide the player base as it goes against their core vision of THEIR game.

  • I feel that this is basically a way of having skill-based matchmaking; the PVP players who like to attack others all end up together and the PVE players who fly instead of fight do the same.

    This is not good for anyone - not to mention that SBMM doesn't work as massive games like Warzone have shown.

  • @digofancy said:

    Whit the current log system in the game I guess it would be possible to track such event as stepping on other's ships, shoot with cannon to other player's ship, etc. These events would make a pirate more and more infamous.

    So, I would become infamous for stepping onto another pirate's ship to parlay with them, or for defending myself from other attacking ships by using my cannons?

    That doesn't sound right... 🙃

  • There's no clean way of putting together that type of system. You may be putting a "negative" label on players that are just really good at defending themselves against would-be attackers.

    Furthermore, trying to segment players based on their assumed intentions would be detrimental to the game in so many ways.

    Hard pass on this idea.

  • Meh...
    I'd also like to point out that, at a point a highly infamous person would be on a server with almost solely other infamous people. At that point, making alliances or doing things (spoilers ahead) such as Glitterbeard becomes impossible if they have a change of heart, because all encounters are hostile.

    That being said, having a game statistic based on infamy isn't necessarily a bad idea. Perhaps there would be exclusive cosmetic rewards on both ends of the table ("good" and "bad")... but I suppose that too drives too much of a gap between "good" and "bad" and is assigning roles to pirates who want those rewards, thus meaning they can't have a session where they are "good" and the next one they are "bad" or else they risk losing progress (that is, if the fame is negative infamy and vice versa, which it makes sense to be). So I suppose that doesn't work either.

    Thoughts or counters, anyone?

  • An idea of seperating was already suggested by a Partner in the past.
    At first impression it seems like a very good idea to me, but after thinking of it you realize you can't implement that due to the fact that it would divide the community.

    For that reason the Partner even did an apology and said it clearly wouldn't work afterall

  • I'm an example of why this doesn't really work.

    Like 90% of my combat for years has been either me defending myself from a hostile ship/s or a lesser experienced player from a hostile ship/s

    I have a very significant amount of sinks and "steals" and all the typical indicators of hostility with very little hostility started by me. As someone that has always been a farmer and staying on one server for long amounts of time it creates plenty of scenarios where defending is necessary.

    This doesn't only put me on the wrong types of servers with your idea this makes it worse for new and peaceful players.

    I'm zero threat to new and casual and peaceful players that don't attack first or don't just come straight at me with no communication. Pve/pvpers like me aren't going to attack certain players and since we produce a lot of loot we are taking the heat off other ships by us being a more appealing target to hoppers and right place right time pvpers

    Essentially as it is right now my type isn't bothering them and hopping pvpers aren't bothering them it's often people barely above the food chain that are bothering them and with the system you suggest the barely above them on the food chain people will still share those servers there will just be more of them.

    Unless someone is being silly and stacking FotD or something in that level of danger they are much safer overall on current servers.

  • I dont want to be sound stuborn, and this is just a suggestion, nothing more.

    I think some of you misunderstood the "labeling" part. I dont think that those players are the badies who fight against other players. I mean this is a pirate game and pirates did this. I just dont like them. Thats why I use negative adjectives for them. But in the word of pirates they might be the role exaples for some people. I dont know how should we call these PVP battle hardned players. So all in all this should not be seen as a punishment (or at lest this is not my intention)

    When multiple friends play togehter I think the captains ranking would determine the whole team, as they creat the groups and select the ships.

    I was thinking about the deffens as well. I think the first cannon shot/sword swing/pistol shot (even if it misses, and there is no NPC entity) is the agressive move when two ships/players are close to each other, afther that everything is a consequence. So you could deffend yourself whit out a change in your infamy.

    This system would not be a skill-based machmaking, as it is not compute your skills in fighting. It would be a behaviour-based machmaking.

    Finally I dont think this systems would have a binary state. Not just peacefull and PVP likers exist. I think ther could be 5 or even more brakets. For example: Peacefull like a sheep, mostly peacefull, half-half, fight likers, gun is allways in their hands.
    And maybe a player with a half-half can (randomly) get in a mostly peacfull or a fight likers session aswell. So this would mix the players a bit.

    And finally, this could be a switchable setting. So you could play on servers without this tracking and deviding system, just like now.

    Maybe it is not a good idea at all. I can accept that. Dividing the player base does not sound good for me either. But standing up from the game with the feeling of "I lost 6 hours for nothing, cuz someone player sunk me while I was on bathroom" neither.

  • @digofancy said in Alternative solution for PVE (Infamy system):

    I dont want to be sound stuborn, and this is just a suggestion, nothing more.

    I think some of you misunderstood the "labeling" part. I dont think that those players are the badies who fight against other players. I mean this is a pirate game and pirates did this. I just dont like them. Thats why I use negative adjectives for them. But in the word of pirates they might be the role exaples for some people. I dont know how should we call these PVP battle hardned players. So all in all this should not be seen as a punishment (or at lest this is not my intention)

    When multiple friends play togehter I think the captains ranking would determine the whole team, as they creat the groups and select the ships.

    I was thinking about the deffens as well. I think the first cannon shot/sword swing/pistol shot (even if it misses, and there is no NPC entity) is the agressive move when two ships/players are close to each other, afther that everything is a consequence. So you could deffend yourself whit out a change in your infamy.

    This system would not be a skill-based machmaking, as it is not compute your skills in fighting. It would be a behaviour-based machmaking.

    Finally I dont think this systems would have a binary state. Not just peacefull and PVP likers exist. I think ther could be 5 or even more brakets. For example: Peacefull like a sheep, mostly peacefull, half-half, fight likers, gun is allways in their hands.
    And maybe a player with a half-half can (randomly) get in a mostly peacfull or a fight likers session aswell. So this would mix the players a bit.

    And finally, this could be a switchable setting. So you could play on servers without this tracking and deviding system, just like now.

    Maybe it is not a good idea at all. I can accept that. Dividing the player base does not sound good for me either. But standing up from the game with the feeling of "I lost 6 hours for nothing, cuz someone player sunk me while I was on bathroom" neither.

    If you are talking about increasing the gold/doubloon reward by X% per X infamy level, then it would make sense. Otherwise you are trying to segregate play styles and creating a pseudo set of PvE servers with zero upsides for those gaining infamy which gets my downvote.

  • @digofancy

    It's the 2nd time you mentioned this 6 hours with nothing to show for.

    Turn in more often.
    You mentioned doing an Athena Run - your crew could have turned in the non-Athena run several times.
    Perhaps turn in some of the Athena items - you should always expect that you might get attacked or find yourself in a position that turning in items might get more difficult or even impossible, so you never should have more loot on board than you care to lose.

    Also, 6 hours of Athena, 6 hours ? I know that reaching grade 5 in Athena takes a long, long time, but if you're in a multi-person crew, that 6 hours is on you or you have some very bad RNG (no Athena items, no PvE that gives rep &c, 2 hours try to finding chests on Old Faithful) against you

  • These types of systems don't work at all.

  • Ahoy!

    Dropping anchor here as this is turning into another PvE server debate - if all the players who don't sink others end up on one 'peaceful' server together then that becomes a PvE server, which is not something we will introduce.

    The joy of SoT is not knowing what another player's intentions are, or how good they are. It's the thrill of 'Do I fight or do I run?' as you see sails heading towards you.

    Something at the heart of SoT would have to change for us to move away from this as a concept.

    Thanks,
    j0toro

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